Rosebowl made a great point about OL

[CadaverDawg]

We ended up with 1 damn OL last year, yet we "dropped" Paul Gainer and he will likely start for USM as a True Freshman. That shit is 100% unacceptable. Mullen has done great things, getting Grantham is a sign of that....but until he finds somebody to do Hevesy's job on the recruiting trail, or replaces his ass....he is limiting his success and our success as MSU football by placing an uneccessary ceiling on the program.

And I know this is another Hevesy thread, so leave it if you don't like it. I had just forgotten Gainer, and hearing he's a potential 1st year starter at a decent program pissed me off again.

[State82]

It's just impossible to spin this for anything other than what it appears on the surface. It's just plain awful.

[Hasu Dackds]

In addition, you can't convince me that Deon Mix wouldn't at least be able to help on our OL this season, if nothing else, a backup.

[msbulldog]

You and Steve are right about Gainer, mistake.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CadaverDawg again.

[Dolphus Raymond]

So an OL we stopped recruiting is going to start as a true freshman? Just ****. Sure, it is USM/Conf. USA but just damn.

[CadaverDawg]

So an OL we stopped recruiting is going to start as a true freshman? Just ****. Sure, it is USM/Conf. USA but just damn.

Yep. Makes you sick

[Jack Lambert]

So an OL we stopped recruiting is going to start as a true freshman? Just ****. Sure, it is USM/Conf. USA but just damn.

It might be USM o line is that bad and not that he is good.

[Todd4State]

It's not just recruiting with Hevesy.

We should have redshirted Jamaal Clayborn- and really had TWO chances to do so and did not. He would be our starting center this year. And it would have kept by far our best looking side of an o-line intact for this upcoming year because Jenkins could have stayed at LG and Rankins would be at LT. And if I'm not mistaken the only reason that left side of the line came together was after injuries- I think Calhoun got hurt, so we moved Desper to RG where I thought he fit much better than the LG spot we had him at originally- caused us to move people around.

I don't like his method of trying everyone out at every position. If we have a 6'9" OT- is there any point in trying him out at center? It tells me he can't figure out where everyone fits based on evaluation. And even then he misevaluates until injuries cause corrections.

I also don't like his idea of an 8 man rotation. I'm pretty sure he is getting that from the NFL. But it makes sense to do that in the NFL because they only can carry 53 players or whatever it is. In college you can dress out something like 72- so it makes much more sense in college to have two complete lines ready. That way you don't have a guy that has to worry as much about "swinging" to both LG/RG and LT/RT where they have to spend time learning both and making them less effective overall.

[starkvegasdawg]

For those of you that watched the Dak vid made by the Cowboys, it had a section in there where Hev was talking about giving Dak hell as a recruit. The only difference is Dak took being called out for not being good motivated him. Most it would piss off. It would piss me off.

[Todd4State]

It might be USM o line is that bad and not that he is good.

Or more than likely it was a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush situation. I believe we dropped him thinking we could get someone better. We should have only dropped him after we had gotten a sixth o-line commitment.

Also, if I remember there was an article about Gainer when he de-committed and he talked about how we just didn't call him. That sounds like Hevesy.

[Todd4State]

For those of you that watched the Dak vid made by the Cowboys, it had a section in there where Hev was talking about giving Dak hell as a recruit. The only difference is Dak took being called out for not being good motivated him. Most it would piss off. It would piss me off.

That's the thing- some people that motivates them. Others it doesn't. A coach has to know what works with each individual player and motivate them the best way that works for all. I remember Bill Parcells talking about that one time.

[msbulldog]

Or more than likely it was a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush situation. I believe we dropped him thinking we could get someone better. We should have only dropped him after we had gotten a sixth o-line commitment.

Also, if I remember there was an article about Gainer when he de-committed and he talked about how we just didn't call him. That sounds like Hevesy.

The worst thing is dropping a player late in the game after you get another better player, If your looking for something better go ahead ant let that player know he doesn't have a committable offer. If you string players along till the last minute and drop them, folks will start calling you Ole Miss!

[Homedawg]

In addition, you can't convince me that Deon Mix wouldn't at least be able to help on our OL this season, if nothing else, a backup.

So we want a guy they couldn't be in the 2 deep at auburn ok???

[Todd4State]

The worst thing is dropping a player late in the game after you get another better player, If your looking for something better go ahead ant let that player know he doesn't have a committable offer. If you string players along till the last minute and drop them, folks will start calling you Ole Miss!

The idea is you keep what you have and then you don't drop them if you don't get anyone better. If it were me he was at least two or three guys from getting dropped. He still would have been able to go to USM at the last minute.

[ShotgunDawg]

My confusion on all this is that MSU football is no longer 9 coaches and a secretary.

We've got close to 40 people working in this corporation now. As much as I dislike Hevesey at times, the realist in me believes that this just can't all be on him.

There just has to be more to the story here. I can't imagine that Dan's organizational structure is set up in a way that would allow 1 coach to sabotage the company with incompetence.

My belief is this was a failure by a number people and an organizational flop.

[Negative Waves]

I've got a feeling Hevesy is kept is because he's the enforcer concerning team discipline. While we might have a ton of other coaches on staff that can recruit, I imagine an OL recruit would like to know who he is going to be his primary coach. Once they meet Hev, they're probably turned off by his "Yankeeniss". I've heard he's pretty abrasive to put it mildly.

[maroonmania]

That's the thing- some people that motivates them. Others it doesn't. A coach has to know what works with each individual player and motivate them the best way that works for all. I remember Bill Parcells talking about that one time.

Mullen is a 7 to 9 win coach. He will never be any more than that because he won't do the things necessary to be elite. Biggest factor is he won't hold ALL of his coaches accountable. He holds the defensive coaches accountable but not the offensive coaches, chief among those being Hevesy. Getting Grantham was a GREAT move but that doesn't do squat for the fact that we don't have enough quality OL and WRs. Mullen also appears to care less if we have someone that can kick a FG.

[tireddawg]

And a 10 win coach...

[Cooterpoot]

I've got a better shot at the Powerball than seeing Hev hit the road.

[BoomBoom]

I've got a feeling Hevesy is kept is because he's the enforcer concerning team discipline. While we might have a ton of other coaches on staff that can recruit, I imagine an OL recruit would like to know who he is going to be his primary coach. Once they meet Hev, they're probably turned off by his "Yankeeniss". I've heard he's pretty abrasive to put it mildly.

He might be better served to stop trying to recruit and just be a professional coach. Stop trying to be their friend as a recruiter and coming off as weird, and just let them know you're the one that will make them better as a a player. Let a real recruiter be their friend.

[Dawgtini]

Y'all sound like the crew wanting to "up our game" to "match TSUN" in 2014. We hired Looney and are making strides. Rinse the sand out of your panties and get ready for some football. HailState!

[Todd4State]

Mullen is a 7 to 9 win coach. He will never be any more than that because he won't do the things necessary to be elite. Biggest factor is he won't hold ALL of his coaches accountable. He holds the defensive coaches accountable but not the offensive coaches, chief among those being Hevesy. Getting Grantham was a GREAT move but that doesn't do squat for the fact that we don't have enough quality OL and WRs. Mullen also appears to care less if we have someone that can kick a FG.

I don't know about that. With the WR's it appears as if we are getting better with that. Billy has a four star guy committed in Malik Heath and Reggie Todd was a four star player. I think Jamal Couch will be a very good WR by the time he is a junior if not sooner. That's why I haven't been on Billy's ass like Hevesy- as long as they actually show that they are correcting mistakes I'm fine with that. And then as far as field goals we hired a NFL kicking coach and have a freshman that was an Army AA punter and we have a commitment from a kicker that is an UA All American. The problem is those spots are major weak points until the younger more talented guys develop and are ready. So, it may look like it hasn't been addressed when it really has been for a couple of years.

Also a lot of people thought he wouldn't get rid of Sallach but he did move him to the front office before Sallach went nuts and left on his own. And you mentioned Grantham already.

So, I do think that Dan has grown as a coach. To me, we really have one major problem spot that hasn't been corrected and he's the subject of this thread. Cohen is probably going to have to be the one that manages it.

I think we were so scarred by Croom being stubborn that we may not notice some of the growth that Dan has made. Or maybe it's the fact that a lot of those changes occurred this offseason and we haven't noticed yet because the season hasn't started. South Alabama has been the absolute low point for Dan thus far- but the good thing is I think it has also spurred a lot of very positive changes for our football program on many levels. And our baseball program too.

[Todd4State]

Y'all sound like the crew wanting to "up our game" to "match TSUN" in 2014. We hired Looney and are making strides. Rinse the sand out of your panties and get ready for some football. HailState!

It was always wait and see what the NCAA was going to do to Ole Miss before anyone was going to be on board with upping our game with Ole Miss. And wisely so. Now that it's obvious that the NCAA is going to ream them there is no reason to go that route.

Looney is a small step in the right direction. He needs to be the full time o-line coach to take the full step. It has to be weird for an o-line recruit to be recruited by the TE coach and very little by the actual position coach. If I was a recruit it would certainly make me wonder why.

[Behrdawg]

I remember seeing Hevesy at a Germantown High School football game in Madison a couple of years ago. He was VERY lackadaisical the whole night. He stood around by himself and wouldn't speak to anyone. I wanted to walk over to him and say hello- but i decided it was a waste of effort. Oh the stories we have heard about Hevesy. I can't figure it out for the life me. He's a shitbrain, for certain.

[Commercecomet24]

I don't know about that. With the WR's it appears as if we are getting better with that. Billy has a four star guy committed in Malik Heath and Reggie Todd was a four star player. I think Jamal Couch will be a very good WR by the time he is a junior if not sooner. That's why I haven't been on Billy's ass like Hevesy- as long as they actually show that they are correcting mistakes I'm fine with that. And then as far as field goals we hired a NFL kicking coach and have a freshman that was an Army AA punter and we have a commitment from a kicker that is an UA All American. The problem is those spots are major weak points until the younger more talented guys develop and are ready. So, it may look like it hasn't been addressed when it really has been for a couple of years.

Also a lot of people thought he wouldn't get rid of Sallach but he did move him to the front office before Sallach went nuts and left on his own. And you mentioned Grantham already.

So, I do think that Dan has grown as a coach. To me, we really have one major problem spot that hasn't been corrected and he's the subject of this thread. Cohen is probably going to have to be the one that manages it.

I think we were so scarred by Croom being stubborn that we may not notice some of the growth that Dan has made. Or maybe it's the fact that a lot of those changes occurred this offseason and we haven't noticed yet because the season hasn't started. South Alabama has been the absolute low point for Dan thus far- but the good thing is I think it has also spurred a lot of very positive changes for our football program on many levels. And our baseball program too.

Excellent post, Todd! I think we sometimes forget Dan was only 37 when he was hired and he's still very young. I do believe he has learned and progressed and hopefully that continues.

[3rdGen]

Get em Todd! I didn't even read your post yet but I bet I'm gonna like it. Haha!

[starkvegasdawg]

Get em Todd! I didn't even read your post yet but I bet I'm gonna like it. Haha!

Are you his mother or girlfriend?

[Todd4State]

Excellent post, Todd! I think we sometimes forget Dan was only 37 when he was hired and he's still very young. I do believe he has learned and progressed and hopefully that continues.

Actually, I forgot that he was that young at that time until you mentioned it. In college I would guess most coaches aren't really in their prime until they are 50 or so. Which means Dan is either entering his prime or is about to. And he will probably be here when that happens. He'll be up against a decimated Ole Miss and I have to believe that Saban will either resign or start to decline at some point between now and 2027 while at the same time it looks like Saban has run off most of the more talented coaches to other conferences. The football conditions of the SEC are about to be the most favorable for us since the late 1990's- if not even more favorable in many ways. We may be about to enter our first true golden age of football since the 40's. It's only a matter of time before Dan is our all time winningest head football coach- likely in 2018 and actually mathematically possible this year but I think he would have to go undefeated this year to do that.

[FISHDAWG]

Y'all sound like the crew wanting to "up our game" to "match TSUN" in 2014. We hired Looney and are making strides. Rinse the sand out of your panties and get ready for some football. HailState!

Bravo ... rep awarded.

[confucius say]

We ended up with 1 damn OL last year, yet we "dropped" Paul Gainer and he will likely start for USM as a True Freshman. That shit is 100% unacceptable. Mullen has done great things, getting Grantham is a sign of that....but until he finds somebody to do Hevesy's job on the recruiting trail, or replaces his ass....he is limiting his success and our success as MSU football by placing an uneccessary ceiling on the program.

And I know this is another Hevesy thread, so leave it if you don't like it. I had just forgotten Gainer, and hearing he's a potential 1st year starter at a decent program pissed me off again.

I think Steve said gainer was likely to play some. Didn't hear anything about being a starter. Maybe I misheard.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

And a 10 win coach...
Hell Chizik won a National Championship at Auburn and Dak is a better player than Cam.

[preachermatt83]

The thing to me that is so odd is that although recruits don't like hevesy, his players actually love him. It's just strange.

[Mimi's Babies]

The thing to me that is so odd is that although recruits don't like hevesy, his players actually love him. It's just strange.

Recruits may not like him... I see Hevesy as an authoritarian. Some kids hate authority -- while others once they get a taste thrive for it. Many of these kids do no have an authority figure at home he maybe teaching life lessons that we do not see. I for one hope he is.....

[Jack Lambert]

Or more than likely it was a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush situation. I believe we dropped him thinking we could get someone better. We should have only dropped him after we had gotten a sixth o-line commitment.

Also, if I remember there was an article about Gainer when he de-committed and he talked about how we just didn't call him. That sounds like Hevesy.

True but we really don't now how good he is until USM takes the field. It could be he's best thing since sliced bread or USM is going to suck.

[Tbonewannabe]

The thing to me that is so odd is that although recruits don't like hevesy, his players actually love him. It's just strange.

Didn't Tebow say the same thing about Dan? He didn't like him when he met him but once on the team, he was one of his favorite coaches. Dan and Hev seem to be the guys that don't really kiss ass. It also seems like that the team is more down to earth, hard working guys. Even the elite guys we get like Simmons doesn't seem to be that all about me stats guy.

[Dawgcentral]

If Hennesey's "Yankiness" is holding him back, send him up to Wisconsin and Minnesota to recruit some of those guys named Ollie and Sven. They are descendants of lumberjacks and they can be found at log splitting contests and such. They like to throw darts but they aren't much at playing pool. They have excellent beer up there. I was in a bar in Heyward Wisconsin and at 6-3 220 I was the 2nd smallest guy in there. The smallest was the guy I traveled with.

It worked really well for MN and Nebraska back in the day. We might simply need for them to eat more corn and less cornbread.

Let Looney recruit the southeast. I think he's in line for the job anyway.

[Todd4State]

If Hennesey's "Yankiness" is holding him back, send him up to Wisconsin and Minnesota to recruit some of those guys named Ollie and Sven. They are descendants of lumberjacks and they can be found at log splitting contests and such. They like to throw darts but they aren't much at playing pool. They have excellent beer up there. I was in a bar in Heyward Wisconsin and at 6-3 220 I was the 2nd smallest guy in there. The smallest was the guy I traveled with.

It worked really well for MN and Nebraska back in the day. We might simply need for them to eat more corn and less cornbread.

Let Looney recruit the southeast. I think he's in line for the job anyway.

I thought the hiring of Looney was very interesting for sure.

[Quaoarsking]

Mullen is a 7 to 9 win coach. He will never be any more than that because he won't do the things necessary to be elite. Biggest factor is he won't hold ALL of his coaches accountable. He holds the defensive coaches accountable but not the offensive coaches, chief among those being Hevesy. Getting Grantham was a GREAT move but that doesn't do squat for the fact that we don't have enough quality OL and WRs. Mullen also appears to care less if we have someone that can kick a FG.

Already has been

[maroonmania]

I don't know about that. With the WR's it appears as if we are getting better with that. Billy has a four star guy committed in Malik Heath and Reggie Todd was a four star player. I think Jamal Couch will be a very good WR by the time he is a junior if not sooner. That's why I haven't been on Billy's ass like Hevesy- as long as they actually show that they are correcting mistakes I'm fine with that. And then as far as field goals we hired a NFL kicking coach and have a freshman that was an Army AA punter and we have a commitment from a kicker that is an UA All American. The problem is those spots are major weak points until the younger more talented guys develop and are ready. So, it may look like it hasn't been addressed when it really has been for a couple of years.

Also a lot of people thought he wouldn't get rid of Sallach but he did move him to the front office before Sallach went nuts and left on his own. And you mentioned Grantham already.

So, I do think that Dan has grown as a coach. To me, we really have one major problem spot that hasn't been corrected and he's the subject of this thread. Cohen is probably going to have to be the one that manages it.

I think we were so scarred by Croom being stubborn that we may not notice some of the growth that Dan has made. Or maybe it's the fact that a lot of those changes occurred this offseason and we haven't noticed yet because the season hasn't started. South Alabama has been the absolute low point for Dan thus far- but the good thing is I think it has also spurred a lot of very positive changes for our football program on many levels. And our baseball program too.

Sorry Todd, I'm not cutting Gonzales any slack at all for right now. If he gets Heath and some other good WR prospects to SIGN this coming year and then we see production in a year or two I will, but not for now. Our WR situation should have NEVER gotten into its current shape. Gonzales was our WR coach on signing day 2016 when we signed ONE WR prospect on that day (Couch). Gonzales was our WR coach on signing day 2017 when we AGAIN signed ONE WR prospect (Williams) on signing day. Yes, I'm glad that Todd gave up basketball for football and became available later and that Mitchell got his academics together and was available later but that shouldn't be the way we have to do business. And I don't think most services had Todd as a 4 star as I remember it. But regardless, for all the crap we give Hev with not filling up his spots with quality prospects, Gonzo has been just as bad and maybe even worse the last couple of recruiting cycles. We better hope some of what we have on campus grow up this year and become solid contributors. Gray and Myles won't be here anymore next year and that doesn't leave much behind that's halfway proven other than slot guys Mixon and Dear (our WR in a RB's body). And during the same time frame we've signed TE prospects galore.

[Todd4State]

Sorry Todd, I'm not cutting Gonzales any slack at all for right now. If he gets Heath and some other good WR prospects to SIGN this coming year and then we see production in a year or two I will, but not for now. Our WR situation should have NEVER gotten into its current shape. Gonzales was our WR coach on signing day 2016 when we signed ONE WR prospect on that day (Couch). Gonzales was our WR coach on signing day 2017 when we AGAIN signed ONE WR prospect (Williams) on signing day. Yes, I'm glad that Todd gave up basketball for football and became available later and that Mitchell got his academics together and was available later but that shouldn't be the way we have to do business. And I don't think most services had Todd as a 4 star as I remember it. But regardless, for all the crap we give Hev with not filling up his spots with quality prospects, Gonzo has been just as bad and maybe even worse the last couple of recruiting cycles. We better hope some of what we have on campus grow up this year and become solid contributors. Gray and Myles won't be here anymore next year and that doesn't leave much behind that's halfway proven other than slot guys Mixon and Dear (our WR in a RB's body). And during the same time frame we've signed TE prospects galore.

Let's see where Couch and Todd are at the end of the year. I think we're going to feel a lot better about the WR situation in January.

I do agree that we have to stop moving guys like Justin Johnson to TE because they get to 220.

[War Machine Dawg]

In addition, you can't convince me that Deon Mix wouldn't at least be able to help on our OL this season, if nothing else, a backup.

I'll say it without hesitation. I watched almost every game of Mix as a player at SP. He was big, but that was it. He was a big softie who didn't even do a good job of using his size to block people in HS. I said from the day he committed he would be a huge bust and I hope he went elsewhere. Dude doesn't belong in FCS, much less in the SEC.

[War Machine Dawg]

It's not just recruiting with Hevesy.

We should have redshirted Jamaal Clayborn- and really had TWO chances to do so and did not. He would be our starting center this year. And it would have kept by far our best looking side of an o-line intact for this upcoming year because Jenkins could have stayed at LG and Rankins would be at LT. And if I'm not mistaken the only reason that left side of the line came together was after injuries- I think Calhoun got hurt, so we moved Desper to RG where I thought he fit much better than the LG spot we had him at originally- caused us to move people around.

I don't like his method of trying everyone out at every position. If we have a 6'9" OT- is there any point in trying him out at center? It tells me he can't figure out where everyone fits based on evaluation. And even then he misevaluates until injuries cause corrections.

I also don't like his idea of an 8 man rotation. I'm pretty sure he is getting that from the NFL. But it makes sense to do that in the NFL because they only can carry 53 players or whatever it is. In college you can dress out something like 72- so it makes much more sense in college to have two complete lines ready. That way you don't have a guy that has to worry as much about "swinging" to both LG/RG and LT/RT where they have to spend time learning both and making them less effective overall.

The way Hev & Dan mismanaged Clayborn's eligibility is criminal. Been saying it for two years. Dude had NFL potential and we completely wasted him for no damned reason.