Redmond

[mic]

Saw where Calhoun may be done for season ankle I believe.. . And heard Will ran with the 1's yesterday. Is he due back for LSU weekend. ??

[smootness]

No. If the bowl game counts as one of the 18, he will first be eligible for Bowling Green. If not, it'll be Kentucky.

[CJDAWG85]

Oh so last year's games counted toward his suspension?

[smootness]

It was 18 games total, and yes, last year's games count, but that means his redshirt didn't. So he is a sophomore this year, with 2.5 years to play 2.5.

[SignalToNoise]

It was 18 games total, and yes, last year's games count, but that means his redshirt didn't. So he is a sophomore this year, with 2.5 years to play 2.5.

This just makes me so effing mad.

/Cue the Bracky Hate

[smootness]

I just don't know how much Bracky could have done about it; once the NCAA tells you what they want to do, there's not usually a whole lot of reason to fight it.

But whoever screwed it up did so when they burned last year for him. What they should have done was suspend him the first 6 games this year but let his redshirt year stand so that he would still be a freshman this year.

[CJDAWG85]

What happened to Calhoun?

[Political Hack]

it's either LSU or BG from what I was told. I don't think they even know yet. the suspension was for last year and six "weeks" this year (remember the suspension isn't just games, it's traveling with the team, etc...). It may include the bye week, but I don't look for the NCAA or Bracky to be reasonable at this point.

[SignalToNoise]

I just don't know how much Bracky could have done about it; once the NCAA tells you what they want to do, there's not usually a whole lot of reason to fight it.

But whoever screwed it up did so when they burned last year for him. What they should have done was suspend him the first 6 games this year but let his redshirt year stand so that he would still be a freshman this year.

Bracky totally screwed the pooch. They sent the kid into a meeting with investigators with no preparation. He was totally blindsided, or so the story goes. Didn't have any sort of representation present.

NCAA still might have handed down sanctions, but at least we wouldn't have made it so easy for them.

[DownwardDawg]

it's either LSU or BG from what I was told. I don't think they even know yet. the suspension was for last year and six "weeks" this year (remember the suspension isn't just games, it's traveling with the team, etc...). It may include the bye week, but I don't look for the NCAA or Bracky to be reasonable at this point.

Everybody else in the SEC would coun't the bye week. We will not.

[smootness]

I went back and looked, and it was reported at the time that he would miss the first 5 games of this year, so he'll be back for BG.

It has nothing to do with weeks, it's games.

[ckDOG]

If they said weeks and we don't count the open week, we are giant pussies.

[smootness]

If they said weeks and we don't count the open week, we are giant pussies.

They didn't, Hack is wrong.

The NCAA has never suspended someone for a certain number of weeks; it is always games.

[FlabLoser]

I still don't understand how the 1st year was lost. I hope we appeal that and count it as a redshirt.

Similar or worse offenses were punished much, much less than 18 games. Frankly, I can't think of any player anywhere that got Redmond level punishment despite other schools violations being a lot more serious.

[Coach34]

I still don't understand how the 1st year was lost. I hope we appeal that and count it as a redshirt.

Similar or worse offenses were punished much, much less than 18 games. Frankly, I can't think of any player anywhere that got Redmond level punishment despite other schools violations being a lot more serious.

There wont be any appeal- WE- Mississippi State- offered that to the NCAA and they accepted it. The NCAA didnt suspend Redmond- WE DID THAT.

Nothing to appeal when you do it to yourself

[Nicky Santoro]

What happened to Calhoun?

This.... I haven't heard anything here.

[sandwolf]

There wont be any appeal- WE- Mississippi State- offered that to the NCAA and they accepted it. The NCAA didnt suspend Redmond- WE DID THAT.

Nothing to appeal when you do it to yourself

Are you sure about that? The way I understood it was that we offered the 5 games, and then he got the additional year because he initially lied to the NCAA investigators.

[Coach34]

Are you sure about that? The way I understood it was that we offered the 5 games, and then he got the additional year because he initially lied to the NCAA investigators.

I'm not 100% no- but my understanding was that we offered up the 18 games and the NCAA accepted it

[engie]

Terrell Pryor and the other 5-6 Ohio St players got 6 games -- and that was a lack of institutional control situation...

ETA: I always find it funny when people question/doubt Hack on something like this...

[smootness]

I'm not questioning his knowledge of the situation (that would be insane), but the suspension was for games, not weeks.

[CJDAWG85]

I'll try this again... What happened to Calhoun?

[engie]

No one knows anything about Calhoun yet.

Let this sink in though. IF Calhoun is out, we will be down all 4 opening day DB starters and at least 1 second string guy...along with Redmond still on suspension...

So, in essence, we "may" be down 6 of our best DBs against Kenny Edenfield and Troy... That's a scary proposition. Not that I think we lose, just that it's a recipe to give up a bunch of yards and look bad on defense...

[Political Hack]

it's either LSU or Bowling Green and the bye week is coming into play. That's all I know.

I've seen press releases that say 6 games too though.

[bulldawg28]

All I know is after talking with Townsend after the Auburn game he's high on Redmond and his ability.

[Dawg61]

Jesus 17ing shit we are DECIMATED at DB already! Wtf is going on

[hailmari]

Nickoe is out?

[maroonmania]

No one knows anything about Calhoun yet.

Let this sink in though. IF Calhoun is out, we will be down all 4 opening day DB starters and at least 1 second string guy...along with Redmond still on suspension...

So, in essence, we "may" be down 6 of our best DBs against Kenny Edenfield and Troy... That's a scary proposition. Not that I think we lose, just that it's a recipe to give up a bunch of yards and look bad on defense...

So our 4 DB starters on opening day were Whitley, Hughes, Love and Calhoun. Hughes is out and now seems to be a question on Calhoun. Is something wrong with Love and Whitley? I know Love sat out against Alcorn but he played against Auburn.

[engie]

So our 4 DB starters on opening day were Whitley, Hughes, Love and Calhoun. Hughes is out and now seems to be a question on Calhoun. Is something wrong with Love and Whitley? I know Love sat out against Alcorn but he played against Auburn.

Love, Whitley, and Arrington are questionable for Troy...

[engie]

All I know is after talking with Townsend after the Auburn game he's high on Redmond and his ability.

Redmond would have likely started all season had he been available is what I've heard...

Also looking for him to get some special teams work at returner -- where he's electric.

[maroonmania]

Love, Whitley, and Arrington are questionable for Troy...

Well dang, if we somehow lose this game because we can't stop the pass its going to REALLY get rough visiting the MSU message boards.

[Homedawg]

Are you sure about that? The way I understood it was that we offered the 5 games, and then he got the additional year because he initially lied to the NCAA investigators.

This is what i was told as well. Not saying its fair, just what I was told from within the dept.

[Political Hack]

he was not given adequate council at the onset of the investigation and got grilled for HOURS by NCAA attorneys without any preparation from the school. "He lied" could easily be interpreted as "he wasn't prepared for what was coming."

Anyone in the Ath Dept that's trying to blame him for this shit should catch the wrath of 60,000 maroon wearing maniacs. He's been through more at 18 than most people do in a lifetime.

[maroonmania]

This is what i was told as well. Not saying its fair, just what I was told from within the dept.

I hate the frickin' NCAA. Every time we have a player come under review for eligibility they throw on a whole damn extra year for good measure without any good reason other than 'we didn't like what they told us'. I don't believe anybody else gets that garbage other than MSU players that I've heard of. Happened with Sidney and the Eastern European basketball player and now with Redmond.

[ckDOG]

he was not given adequate council at the onset of the investigation and got grilled for HOURS by NCAA attorneys without any preparation from the school. "He lied" could easily be interpreted as "he wasn't prepared for what was coming."

Anyone in the Ath Dept that's trying to blame him for this shit should catch the wrath of 60,000 maroon wearing maniacs. He's been through more at 18 than most people do in a lifetime.

Well let's try not getting caught providing discounts, cash, and gift cards next time and we won't have to worry about the eligibility of a recruit or getting ourselves put on probation.

[TheRef]

Well let's try not getting caught providing discounts, cash, and gift cards next time and we won't have to worry about the eligibility of a recruit or getting ourselves put on probation.

Easier said than done nowadays. Sad, but true.

[maroonmania]

Easier said than done nowadays. Sad, but true.

No, based on what I'm seeing with a lot of other schools including our friends to the North its not that hard. We seem to be one of the very few that can't do it without it all becoming public knowledge.

[engie]

Well let's try not getting caught providing discounts, cash, and gift cards next time and we won't have to worry about the eligibility of a recruit or getting ourselves put on probation.

Fair enough.

Don't ever get caught bitching about our recruiting then -- because we won't be playing the same game as everyone else and will get NO ONE other than the lifelong MSU fan from within MS that can afford to leave thousands on the table in order to come play for us. Ole Miss will take 7+ of the top 10 or so in MS every year -- and we can play tiddlywinks with USM for the leftovers.

Fact is, we didn't "get caught" with jack shit. We caught ourselves. All we had to do was go on the offense and in 10 minutes of scrutiny, we could have TOTALLY ripped De'Vinner to shreds as a valid witness...at which point, the NCAA HAS NOTHING ON US. Hell, it's literally only taken him steering a few recruits away from Tennessee -- for them to throw their weight around -- culminating in what likely ends up as jail time and his exposure as a fraud to the whole free world for his ass. THEY are doing this work for us -- after the fact -- simply because he steers kids away from there. And you wonder why we are bitching about our "aw shucks" bullshit?

Do you see OK State laying down and taking it? NO -- they went have gone STRAIGHT to offense trying to disqualify the people talking shit about them...

[FISHDAWG]

Do you see OK State laying down and taking it? NO -- they went have gone STRAIGHT to offense trying to disqualify the people talking shit about them...[/QUOTE]

would that include their AD who started apologizing to the fans the day after it went public ?

[archdog]

Heck,
They should give him his year back. That is crazy. It's not like he signed a bunch of autographs or whatever Miami and Oregon did. This guy wasn't even a player for MSU at the time. Its like following the rules of any club in america before you were even a member. Let some shit slide. UM players were video taped getting more money by an entire club worth of students and boosters.

[engie]

Do you see OK State laying down and taking it? NO -- they went have gone STRAIGHT to offense trying to disqualify the people talking shit about them...

would that include their AD who started apologizing to the fans the day after it went public ?[/QUOTE]

Their AD went stupid before it ever went public. And his ass is on fire because of it. It's been taken out of his hands now -- and he'll be lucky to survive as their AD. They've lawyered up -- and have attacked each and every named "source" in those articles. There's even talk of the writer losing his job over it or at the very least being suspended because of the amount of scrutiny and the disqualification that has already happened. ESPN has already made them look stupid even...

[Coach34]

This is what i was told as well. Not saying its fair, just what I was told from within the dept.

from the ESPN article:

"Mississippi State said the athlete (defensive back Will Redmond) has been reinstated after paying back $2,660 in benefits, forfeiting a year of eligibility and being withheld from the first five games of the 2013 season.

"We're pleased the committee on infractions accepted our self-imposed actions and Mississippi State's full cooperation," said MSU athletic director Scott Stricklin."

[ckDOG]

Fair enough.

Don't ever get caught bitching about our recruiting then -- because we won't be playing the same game as everyone else and will get NO ONE other than the lifelong MSU fan from within MS that can afford to leave thousands on the table in order to come play for us. Ole Miss will take 7+ of the top 10 or so in MS every year -- and we can play tiddlywinks with USM for the leftovers.

Fact is, we didn't "get caught" with jack shit. We caught ourselves. All we had to do was go on the offense and in 10 minutes of scrutiny, we could have TOTALLY ripped De'Vinner to shreds as a valid witness...at which point, the NCAA HAS NOTHING ON US. Hell, it's literally only taken him steering a few recruits away from Tennessee -- for them to throw their weight around -- culminating in what likely ends up as jail time and his exposure as a fraud to the whole free world for his ass. THEY are doing this work for us -- after the fact -- simply because he steers kids away from there. And you wonder why we are bitching about our "aw shucks" bullshit?

Do you see OK State laying down and taking it? NO -- they went have gone STRAIGHT to offense trying to disqualify the people talking shit about them...

Refresh my memory. Did our compliance department go on some sort of bounty hunt mission to find out where we are breaking rules or did we have a guy that got sloppy, dealt with a shady cat, and forced their hand? I'll buy into that our compliance department doesn't accept as much risk as others, that's fine, but I refuse to believe we have Barney Fife out finding stuff that he can't observe from outside of his office....

How about this? Get a more proactive compliance department, as you suggest, AND quit sucking at the off-campus stuff. Find out who the pros are (i.e. the guys that don't get busted) and leave it to them to handle these things.

[Coach34]

remind me again- why in the world would Devinner rat out one of his own players to the NCAA????

[ckDOG]

Taco Bell man paid him, duh.

[engie]

And what hard proof did De'Vinner have on us? None. If we had handled it correctly.

Meanwhile, he's got 4-5 players at Ole Miss and a handful at Vandy that we are supposed to believe are "clean"?

There is still alot more scrutiny to come surrounding him. It appears that Tennessee is going to dig up the bodies for us...

[maroonmania]

Yea, and Auburn is in deep trouble over their Memphis recruiting! Oh wait, never mind.

[engie]

How about this? Get a more proactive compliance department, as you suggest, AND quit sucking at the off-campus stuff. Find out who the pros are (i.e. the guys that don't get busted) and leave it to them to handle these things.

The disorganization comes from our staff being totally disconnected from it -- for good reason seeing what happened to Mirando.

The reason "others" seem organized is because the marching orders come directly from their coaching staff(s). They are way more effective -- but also take a much larger risk in the scheme of things.

[Coach34]

Taco Bell man paid him, duh.

well then, let's lay off the "we got sloppy" stuff and realize who the real enemy is here. You'd never expect the coach to roll on his player. Devinner is a piece of shit and he is about to pay the piper for it

[ckDOG]

well then, let's lay off the "we got sloppy" stuff and realize who the real enemy is here. You'd never expect the coach to roll on his player. Devinner is a piece of shit and he is about to pay the piper for it

Did we think this guy was an angel before dealing with him? This guy must have had red flags. Pick and chose your battles.

[sleepy dawg]

Everyone got so caught up in our on the field results, that we forgot about how important it was to get rid of Bracky now, regardless of what we do with our coach. We can get another coach, but as long as Bracky is here, that coach will be playing with 1 arm tied behind his back during his tenure.

We must focus our attention to Bracky before we consider bringing in another coach to fail.

[engie]

Did we think this guy was an angel before dealing with him? This guy must have had red flags. Pick and chose your battles.

So, just don't go after Redmond then?

The guy's 7 on 7 team consistently has 80% or more of the top talent in Tennessee on it, particularly in the Memphis area... We couldn't afford to just throw in the towel for recruiting that area.

Was he a shady character? Sure... But he was a shady character that other programs had dealt with for YEARS without any tangible repercussions...so it's not like there was obvious clear foresight on this...

[Political Hack]

Did we think this guy was an angel before dealing with him? This guy must have had red flags. Pick and chose your battles.

are you asking about the guy our staff had speaking at coaching clinics, talked to on a weekly basis, and interviewed for the recruiting coordinator position? That guy?

[mic]

from the ESPN article:

"Mississippi State said the athlete (defensive back Will Redmond) has been reinstated after paying back $2,660 in benefits, forfeiting a year of eligibility and being withheld from the first five games of the 2013 season.

"We're pleased the committee on infractions accepted our self-imposed actions and Mississippi State's full cooperation," said MSU athletic director Scott Stricklin."

So I take it this means he IS NOT available for the LSU.. That's outstanding..

[Todd4State]

So, just don't go after Redmond then?

The guy's 7 on 7 team consistently has 80% or more of the top talent in Tennessee on it, particularly in the Memphis area... We couldn't afford to just throw in the towel for recruiting that area.

Was he a shady character? Sure... But he was a shady character that other programs had dealt with for YEARS without any tangible repercussions...so it's not like there was obvious clear foresight on this...


Engie is right on the money. Recruiting is a dirty business and has been for years. See the Marcus Dupree story on ESPN. I think we would all like for recruiting to be like Devon Desper and Richie Brown where everything is on the up and up and if a kid wants to go to MSU, he just goes ahead and commits and if he truly isn't sure they will weigh their options and decide.

It would be a LOT better without the Byron DeVinner's of the world- but until the NCAA actually does something to THEM and not the players and the schools, we're all going to have to co-exist. Or recruit like Croom did in year one.

Guys like DeVinner come out to these families and players (mostly in disadvantaged situations) and come across as wholesome people who care about the kids and their future- but the sad reality is they are out for themselves.

[ckDOG]

are you asking about the guy our staff had speaking at coaching clinics, talked to on a weekly basis, and interviewed for the recruiting coordinator position? That guy?

Wait, I thought the narrative was the staff doesn't play the recruiting game. You don't have a guy like this on campus and consult with him because he's respected for his football knowledge. He's a 7 on 7 pimp. You guys sure he didn't turn on us bc we didn't offer him a job and not bc of taco man?

[maroonmania]

well then, let's lay off the "we got sloppy" stuff and realize who the real enemy is here. You'd never expect the coach to roll on his player. Devinner is a piece of shit and he is about to pay the piper for it

Problem was Fat Bastard should have never known about it THAT is where we were sloppy. If Fast Bastard doesn't know he can't tell Taco Bell man who wouldn't have then funneled Fat Bastard money to spill the beans.

[Political Hack]

Ck, you ever taken an ass whoopin' just make sure your friend don't get beat up too bad?

[Political Hack]

Problem was Fat Bastard should have never known about it THAT is where we were sloppy. If Fast Bastard doesn't know he can't tell Taco Bell man who wouldn't have then funneled Fat Bastard money to spill the beans.

what exactly did he know again?

[PassInterference]

I am amazed at all the conclusions that get made based of fat pimp's telling of things. Y'all need to remember which side of the story ran through the media.

[Todd4State]

Wait, I thought the narrative was the staff doesn't play the recruiting game. You don't have a guy like this on campus and consult with him because he's respected for his football knowledge. He's a 7 on 7 pimp. You guys sure he didn't turn on us bc we didn't offer him a job and not bc of taco man?

You can't really totally avoid that part of it no matter who you are and how clean you are. Unless you just totally abandon a region like engie said.

Dan is NOT going to actively play the game as in:

I as big money booster go up to Dan and tell him I can use my money to get whatever player he wants. That means that if anything happens and I get caught- Dan is going down with me. And ANY coach with a brain is going to tell me to get lost. What happens at most schools is what the big boosters and the coaches do is separate from each other, but what was going on was understood even though all the details may not have been known.

[ckDOG]

Ck, you ever taken an ass whoopin' just make sure your friend don't get beat up too bad?

Not following.

[Johnson85]

Did we think this guy was an angel before dealing with him? This guy must have had red flags. Pick and chose your battles.

Or are you saying we should just not recruit SEC caliber players?

[Johnson85]

Not following.

Please let's not spell this out anymore than it already is.

[Political Hack]

Please let's not spell this out anymore than it already is.

I agree.