Mind boggling MSU offense stats

[BeastMan]

MSU's top 2 RBs in the rotation (LDP & Jrob) only average 3.58 and 3.4 yards per carry. That is the worst ypc for a team's 1-2 RBs in the SEC and its not close. I think its a symptom and not the sickness. The reason this stat bothers me much is b/c it doesn't matter if its TR or Dak, RB production is a must for success. If these ypc numbers do not increase dramatically, I don't expect an improved offense this season. Thought it was worth discussing. I wrote something about it but this post is the cliffs http://3rdand57.com/msu-offense-has-a-glaring-problem/

[bocfarm]

That's not good

I don't expect the offense to improve until an OC change is made and Mullen is able to let go and allow someone to help game plan...until that we are croomed on offense

[SignalToNoise]

Had no idea we were that far behind. That is pitiful.

I still think we have yet to settle on what our identity is offensively. Is it going to be the Dak Coast or the TR Offense? Just my opinion but I think this issue would correct itself if we would stick with Dak and get back to what we were doing on offense with Relf. It would help open up the running game I think.

[BeastMan]

You would think but LDP and Jrob had horrible games at auburn. That's not a shot at their effort, just the production

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Lots of guys we could bring in that would be able to put up points with our players.

[Political Hack]

Maybe Dak should play next to TR.

[BeastMan]

Maybe Dak should play next to TR.

I'd be willing to try anything. ULM did it last year and had a bunch of success with the dual QB formation. Hokey as hell but it was fun to watch

[AgDawg]

I think the offense is in a midst of an identity crisis. In the first couple of years Mulllen didn't have much choice and the identity was a running offense first. Insert Russell who can throw a ball pretty good and we go away from leaning on the running game to now this drop back and pass offense but now with Dak we can if we choose to focus on running but we seem to be half way there. I am just not seeing any wrinkles in the running game that are really effective.

[Dannyripms]

look it doesn't matter who our qb is. look at what happened when aubby stopped dak. our offense stalled. we have no creativity on offense.

[FlabLoser]

We are platooning way too many RBs. RBs need carries to get in a rhythm. In the Auburn game our RBs probably sat on the bench 10's of minutes between carries.

[BeastMan]

We are platooning way too many RBs. RBs need carries to get in a rhythm. In the Auburn game our RBs probably sat on the bench 10's of minutes between carries.

I disagree. Only game we spread out carries was Alcorn. LDP and Jrob have been the 2 when the game matters with little to no exceptions

[War Machine Dawg]

I disagree. Only game we spread out carries was Alcorn. LDP and Jrob have been the 2 when the game matters with little to no exceptions

You serious, Clark? All 5 RBs had carries in the Auburn game. That is way too damn many. And J-Rob had never had more than 10 in any game in his career. I'd love to see what he could do if we'd feed him 15+ times.

[Dawg61]

I was screaming for Shumpert the entire second half. We would of won that game no doubt in my mind if Mullen lets Shump pound on them at the end. Auburn would of folded especially after those two turnovers. I can't believe we lost that game.

[SPMT]

I worried about this post Dixon, Relf, and Ballard to some degree. What we lack is power. We have no power back or at least we aren't using one. Montrell Conner was the next power back for us IMO and we let him get away.

We lack power except fo Dak. Too cute, too much finesse, too predictable.

[BeastMan]

You serious, Clark? All 5 RBs had carries in the Auburn game. That is way too damn many. And J-Rob had never had more than 10 in any game in his career. I'd love to see what he could do if we'd feed him 15+ times.

You are wrong. Shump had 1 and so did Milton. Griffin had zero. As I posted, LDP and Jrob are MSUs guys when it matters. I don't see what you're missing here

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Here's my interesting stat of the Auburn game:
We ran the ball 40 times against Auburn. 14 of those were carries by all of our running back COMBINED.

[BeastMan]

@WMD

You constantly say that JRob should be the starter. If that's the argument, then yes he should have at least 15 carries a game. The reality of MSU is that he's 2nd string right now. The reality of football is that 2nd stringers rarely get 15 carries a game. TJ freaking Yeldon averaged 12.5 carries per game last year.

I actually agree with you that JRob should get more carries. That's a given. But you're not approaching these MSU RB conversations very rationally

[BeastMan]

Here's my interesting stat of the Auburn game:
We ran the ball 40 times against Auburn. 14 of those were carries by all of our running back COMBINED.

Bingo. We need more production from MSU RBs. Carries and output.

[Bothrops]

If we keep our RB croots,..and that is if we KEEP them, we'll have 6 on the roster next year. I love the depth but at least one guy needs to transfer. He would be doing himself a favor, his new program a favor, and us a favor. Just hope it's not our best guy.

[CJDAWG85]

Griffin got the carry on the 2 pt conversion

[FlabLoser]

It was obvious to me that towards the end of the game, Dak was trying to be a hero instead of running the offense. I think that gave Dak more carries than he should have gotten.

I don't think he was being selfish. There's just a fine line between out-athleting the opponent and running the offense. It is similar to the challenge that Michael Vicks face when they enter the NFL - out-athleting everybody vs running the offense.

[BeastMan]

I want to be clear so I won't be misunderstood. If you read the article (by no means have to), I said 1)MSU needs better production (ypc) at RB and 2) Its a schematic problem best illustrated in MSU's total rushing finishes in the SEC under Mullen.

Here are some facts against Auburn.
-Besides our top 2 RBs, 2 total carries were given to MSU RBs
-Jrob & LDP combined for 12 attempts, 33 yards, 0 TDs, 1 fumble

With those numbers, why wouldn't Dak call his own number more? I would. Lets return to my overall point: MSU has an schematic problem running the football.

[BeastMan]

Griffin got the carry on the 2 pt conversion

That's right but its not counted in the official stats >>http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/player/430/1032820/rushing/gamelog.html

But I don't have any big issue with our 3,4,&5 RB getting 1 carry apiece. Debating who should be our 1,2,3... RB is a whole different issue. I'm approaching it as, this is who MSU is using & this is how its going. No emotions involved

[Dawg61]

If we keep our RB croots,..and that is if we KEEP them, we'll have 6 on the roster next year. I love the depth but at least one guy needs to transfer. He would be doing himself a favor, his new program a favor, and us a favor. Just hope it's not our best guy.

I'd do a position change before I'd send one of them packing. We still need a good blocking FB or move one of them to defense or even some type of WR slot/hybrid. I like having a RB line up in the slot at times and use them in motion on sweep running plays.

[BeastMan]

I agree Dawg61, why couldn't Griffin be a good FB? Y'all remember Justin Griffith? If Griffin did lose a step of explosiveness than maybe FB is a good spot. He's already 220ish. He's strong as an OC and tough as nails. Good hands out of the backfield too. Should be worth a look in practice at a minimum

[Bothrops]

Griffin is a guy that I'd like to see worked a lot more, but Mullen may be timid because of his previous injury. But time is running out on him. If Griffin had stayed healthy, he'd be our #1 back and it wouldn't be close.

[codeDawg]

MSU's top 2 RBs in the rotation (LDP & Jrob) only average 3.58 and 3.4 yards per carry. That is the worst ypc for a team's 1-2 RBs in the SEC and its not close. I think its a symptom and not the sickness. The reason this stat bothers me much is b/c it doesn't matter if its TR or Dak, RB production is a must for success. If these ypc numbers do not increase dramatically, I don't expect an improved offense this season. Thought it was worth discussing. I wrote something about it but this post is the cliffs http://3rdand57.com/msu-offense-has-a-glaring-problem/

It's two things:
1. Scheme. We are not making teams pay for playing man-to-man in the passing game. The defensive scheme has been to play man-to-man and put the extra guy on the RB. That's why Dak ran so much last week. His read was always keep, but he can't just run up the middle every play. He has to be able to hit the deep ball and move a guy out of the box. We should run the same go route to Wilson that UM runs to Moncrief and aTm ran to their big outside guy last weekend. Also, BUBBLE SCREEN. Why is this hard for us?

2. Run blocking. We are doing fine in pass blocking, but our run blocks are awful. Our guys are slow, and couldn't push Megan Mullen out of the way.

[hailmari]

I've been wanting to see this since Relf/Russel.

[coachcamp]

You guys are FUNNY.. LOL Have any off you guys ever played Football? not trying to be a smart ass, but Im just wondering.

[bocfarm]

I played against neighborhood kids in my front yard growing up, that count?

[coachcamp]

lol.. I guess..

[coachcamp]

What type of QB do you guys think you need to have a winning program at MSU? Somebody??? And lets forget that Im Staleys Dad for now. I want honest answers.

[FISHDAWG]

@coachcamp ... I've wondered this myself ... you need to bear with us while we vent ... I think it was more the prevent defense that we went into with so much time left on the clock more so than a stalled offense.... but since the offense has been lack-luster since the Arky game last year they are the easy target ... we bitch a lot but nobody, and I mean nobody loves these dawgs more than us

[coachcamp]

@coachcamp ... I've wondered this myself ... you need to bear with us while we vent ... I think it was more the prevent defense that we went into with so much time left on the clock more so than a stalled offense.... but since the offense has been lack-luster since the Arky game last year they are the easy target ... we bitch a lot but nobody, and I mean nobody loves these dawgs more than us

@FishDawg I understand, but I am an OC and have been for a lot of years. Not on such a big level but I do know a lil football. I dont think you guys have a Defense problem. I think its the offense. The D held Auburn for almost 3 Quarters and the Offense couldnt even manage a fieldgoal.

[BeastMan]

What type of QB do you guys think you need to have a winning program at MSU? Somebody??? And lets forget that Im Staleys Dad for now. I want honest answers.

Dual threats all day every day

[Dawg61]

What type of QB do you guys think you need to have a winning program at MSU? Somebody??? And lets forget that Im Staleys Dad for now. I want honest answers.

Everyone is very excited about Elijah. I think the style he plays and the style Dak plays can be successful at MSU. My wish is for Mullen to switch to a more aggressive style offense like Oregon plays. He can't do that with the current OC so I'm for MSU ponying up the necessary cash to hire an ELITE Offensive Coordinator.

[Dawg61]

@FishDawg I understand, but I am an OC and have been for a lot of years. Not on such a big level but I do know a lil football. I dont think you guys have a Defense problem. I think its the offense. The D held Auburn for almost 3 Quarters and the Offense couldnt even manage a fieldgoal.

How much salary would you want to be MSU's Offensive Coordinator? Serious question.

[coachcamp]

Everyone is very excited about Elijah. I think the style he plays and the style Dak plays can be successful at MSU. My wish is for Mullen to switch to a more aggressive style offense like Oregon plays. He can't do that with the current OC so I'm for MSU ponying up the necessary cash to hire an ELITE Offensive Coordinator.

Elijah is a PASS first QB. He is just extremely mobile. I dont think him and Dak's style is the same.

[coachcamp]

How much salary would you want to be MSU's Offensive Coordinator? Serious question.

As broke as I am, It wouldnt take much.. lol

[Todd4State]

What type of QB do you guys think you need to have a winning program at MSU? Somebody??? And lets forget that Im Staleys Dad for now. I want honest answers.

As simple as I can put it, one that doesn't turn the ball over (throwing and running) and can complete 65% of his passes. And since we are dealing with humans here, I think a reasonable expectation as far as turnovers is an average of one per game.

[coachcamp]

Dual threats all day every day

I hear you.. I think some people get DT's mixed up with running QB's..

[coachcamp]

As simple as I can put it, one that doesn't turn the ball over (throwing and running) and can complete 65% of his passes. And since we are dealing with humans here, I think a reasonable expectation as far as turnovers is an average of one per game. 65% is good..

[BeastMan]

I hear you.. I think some people get DT's mixed up with running QB's..

Haha. I just want a QB who is a threat running and throwing. I dont care which one he favors as long as he can do whatever he needs to do in game situations to get the job done. Football as a whole, is trending toward a mobile QB being a necessity and not a luxury.

[Dawg61]

Elijah is a PASS first QB. He is just extremely mobile. I dont think him and Dak's style is the same.

What style of offense (college team) do you think Elijah would excel at? Whatever style that is we should implement it at MSU tomorrow.

[FlabLoser]

What type of QB do you guys think you need to have a winning program at MSU? Somebody??? And lets forget that Im Staleys Dad for now. I want honest answers.

Need a guy that can run and throw. Dak is the best we've had so far for doing both of those things. We just need to remember that Auburn was only his 1st SEC start.

Dak's running is on a different planet from Russell.

Dak's passing is definitely better as Sophomore than Russell's was when Russell was a Sophomore.

Decision making? Who knows. I think only his coach can evaluate that. I can't tell from the stands what he is reading and what his options are.

[coachcamp]

Haha. I just want a QB who is a threat running and throwing. I dont care which one he favors as long as he can do whatever he needs to do in game situations to get the job done. Football as a whole, is trending toward a mobile QB being a necessity and not a luxury.

Exactly... MOBILE being the key word. Not a running QB.. Run first QB's always seem to get away from what they are suppose to be doing on offense. A lot of times, that can hurt the team. Especially if he is not an elite run first QB.

[coachcamp]

What style of offense (college team) do you think Elijah would excel at? Whatever style that is we should implement it at MSU tomorrow.

One that will allow him to use his superior height to see over the line and throw the ball First and run the ball when needed..

[sleepy dawg]

This post is incredibly misleading. Our team is averaging 4.5 ypc, which is decent.

I know you guys love posting whatever negatives you can find about State, but when you have reorganize the data to make it negative, you may as well be a land shark bear.

Seriously though, thanks for you contributions. I enjoy reading.

[coachcamp]

Need a guy that can run and throw. Dak is the best we've had so far for doing both of those things. We just need to remember that Auburn was only his 1st SEC start.

Dak's running is on a different planet from Russell.

Dak's passing is definitely better as Sophomore than Russell's was when Russell was a Sophomore.

Decision making? Who knows. I think only his coach can evaluate that. I can't tell from the stands what he is reading and what his options are.

I agree.. I think Dak needs to figure out if he wants to be a DT or a run first QB.

[BeastMan]

This post is incredibly misleading. Our team is averaging 4.5 ypc, which is decent.

I know you guys love posting whatever negatives you can find about State, but when you have reorganize the data to make it negative, you may as well be a land shark bear.

Seriously though, thanks for you contributions. I enjoy reading.

No it's not. You're being obtuse. Dak has a good ypc at 5.06. Jameon's is 19+, Holloways 7, Damien Williams is 5.

The point is your RBs HAVE to give better production since they get the ball more. MSU's RBs aren't producing for reasons I theorized and its hurting. That isn't "reorganizing facts" at all.

[BeastMan]

@sleepydawg

Guess what else that 4.5 ypc as a team gets you? 10th in the league in total rushing offense. Guess what we've been for the last 3 years in a row? 10th. You can call it reorganizing facts or being negative all you want but a spade is a spade.


ETA- 4.5 ypc as a team is the 11th worst mark in the league.

[SPMT]

Johnny Manziel is who State needs or similar. Russell Wilson, Kap, Alex Smith, RGIiI Those types. Thrower first that can pull and go.

[DownwardDawg]

Dual Threat is the only way we will win at MSU. He needs to be an accurate passer that can run. Relf was a great runner but couldn't pass. In the games that he could actually complete a few passes, the run became wide open. Russel can make the throws but I'm not gonna mention run and Russell in the same sentence again. Dak seems to be a run 1st guy but he looks accurate enough. I think Dan needs to let him throw a little more.
Staley looks like he is a perfect fit for Mullen or Hud, whichever one is here.

[coachcamp]

If i was the OC. We would establish a Superior run game with the RB's FIRST! Before doing anything else. It only takes 1 or 2 key blocks to be successful at running the ball. Everything else will fall into place once that is done. MSU clearly havnt done that. That needs to be addressed ASAP! Without a run threat, nothing else will work. bottom line.

[coachcamp]

Johnny Manziel is who State needs or similar. Russell Wilson, Kap, Alex Smith, RGIiI Those types. Thrower first that can pull and go.

Thats what My son is.. a big ass Johnny Manziel!! lol

[Coach34]

We need a mobile QB that can complete passes. We have that in Prescott and Elijah is the same way.

Dakota is just moving into the starting role. Our WR's are inexperienced and going to get better each week. Hell, Wilson is in only his 2nd season of football period. He has so damn much to learn. The passing game is going to be a work in progress- no matter who the QB is. But Dakota does give us that running dimension that Russell cant.

People act we couldnt throw Saturday- but we were 15/28 with a few drops- and over 200 yards. The passing game will improve

[Coach34]

If i was the OC. We would establish a Superior run game with the RB's FIRST! Before doing anything else. It only takes 1 or 2 key blocks to be successful at running the ball. Everything else will fall into place once that is done. MSU clearly havnt done that. That needs to be addressed ASAP! Without a run threat, nothing else will work. bottom line.

yes Sir

[coachcamp]

Dual Threat is the only way we will win at MSU. He needs to be an accurate passer that can run. Relf was a great runner but couldn't pass. In the games that he could actually complete a few passes, the run became wide open. Russel can make the throws but I'm not gonna mention run and Russell in the same sentence again. Dak seems to be a run 1st guy but he looks accurate enough. I think Dan needs to let him throw a little more.
Staley looks like he is a perfect fit for Mullen or Hud, whichever one is here.
Ive never seen Relf but IMO Dak did seem like a run first QB to me. Ill have to watch him again to be sure. Me and Elijah will be looking to see if we can recognize some more of MSU plays. A lot of them, Elijah already runs at his school. I dont know if Eli will fit the mold or not but I do know he will be ready for all challenges.

[FlabLoser]

Relf was a two star QB recruited by Croom. He was not a good passer at all, but he was a huge QB, could run, take a hit, and played with plenty of guts.

Dan coached him up, polished up his passing to being mostly serviceable, and he got us to the Gator bowl and 10 wins. He was our QB that hung 50+ points on Michigan. That offense was a zone read almost all one-RB sets.

[FISHDAWG]

Relf was a two star QB recruited by Croom. He was not a good passer at all, but he was a huge QB, could run, take a hit, and played with plenty of guts.

Dan coached him up, polished up his passing to being mostly serviceable, and he got us to the Gator bowl and 10 wins. He was our QB that hung 50+ points on Michigan. That offense was a zone read almost all one-RB sets.

THIS SHOULD BE A TEMPORARY BANNER ON THE HOME PAGE !!

[gravedigger]

I'm not convinced dak is more of a running qb. I just thinks it works out that way because we aren't doing a good job of holding blocks in the pocket long enough to check down to a second or third receiver if needed. His only option often is to take a hit or run and that is what he does. We are prime targets for bull rushing defensive ends.

If we'd simply spread the field with quicker throws and rollouts the pocket wouldn't collapse nearly as quickly with fewer bodies in the box. We need to still use traditional pocket passing, just not to the extent we do now.

Dak and your son can thrive in the offense we ran in 2010, with just a bit more emphasis on passing.

I look forward to seeing what he can do but we need the field stretched to its full 53 yards and defenses unsure about out next playcall. That means Mullen needs to return to what he started with. My dad used to say "dance with the one what brung ya".

The "one" is the quick developing play that got us 4-7 yards and was hard to predict.

Mullen can do that. What's more, he has to.

[Barking 13]

If i was the OC. We would establish a Superior run game with the RB's FIRST! Before doing anything else. It only takes 1 or 2 key blocks to be successful at running the ball. Everything else will fall into place once that is done. MSU clearly havnt done that. That needs to be addressed ASAP! Without a run threat, nothing else will work. bottom line.

I've been screaming this for two years.... I wish we would run two and three back sets with a mobile QB.. wishbone, diamond, etc. I watched a replay of OSU v Lamar last night and saw a really pretty pass play to the WR out of the diamond... everybody was keyed up on the run and the WR was wide @$$ open...

[Radddawg]

These Olinemen that Mullen and Hevesy have brought in just arent physical and athletic enough to get the job done on a weekend to weekend basis... It pisses me off.