NCAA revenue vs expenses

[lamont]

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

We are 34th for 2015-2016....while we've come a long damn way...the gap from the top 15 is mighty big

[Fred Garvin]

Surprised to see Clemson as low as it is.

[ShotgunDawg]

How Texas A&M remains middle of the road in everything is fascinating. It defies logic.

[msbulldog]

Hey Random we have been blessed, it ain't going to last! Let's always sock some of that back in a reserve fund. Let's give some back to the university, because they need it. Hail State!

[HSVDawg]

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

We are 34th for 2015-2016....while we've come a long damn way...the gap from the top 15 is mighty big

A lot of interesting info from that:

- Ole Miss is killing us in both ticket sales revenue and giving. Neither of which makes sense (especially the ticket sales). It will be interesting to see if that trend continues over the next year with the NCAA cloud looming.
- Anyone that thinks college basketball is a non revenue sport is kidding themselves. Kentucky and Arkansas each had a whopping $37 million in ticket sales revenue, about $9 million more than Georgia. It sure as hell ain't because of football tickets being more expensive at either place.
- We seem to be leaving a lot of money on the table by not using student fees to boost the athletic budget. We are one of the few SEC schools that doesn't do this.
- Our Adidas deal actually seems pretty good. We are in the ballpark with what Auburn gets from Under Armour and get a couple million more than OM does from Nike.

[TUSK]

How much of each SEC team's revenue is from "revenue sharing".... $40ish?

[Bully13]

We suck at this.

[HSVDawg]

How much of each SEC team's revenue is from "revenue sharing".... $40ish?

Something in that ballpark now. I think it jumped up to $40 mill for this year from $25 million last year (which is the year shown in the study, I think).

[TUSK]

Something in that ballpark now. I think it jumped up to $40 mill for this year from $25 million last year (which is the year shown in the study, I think).

I found it.... $40.4...

According to the USA REV/EXP dB, only Texas A&M operates in the "black"....

That's sad....

[Reason2succeed]

Any business making $20 million or more a year ought to be paying its "primary employees" something. I know they are getting stipends now. They ought to be.

[sandwolf]

Ole Miss is killing us in both ticket sales revenue and giving.Their giving level is not just high compared to ours.....they are beating Bama and in the same ball park as pretty much all of the big SEC programs, other than Florida and A&M (A&M's is a ridiculous $75.5 million). They may be a bunch of cocksuckers, but considering the size of their fan base, their lack of any real success, and the fact that they are the lesser of 2 SEC schools in a small, poor state, it is legitimately impressive that they are donating at a level that is competitive with the likes of LSU, UGA, Auburn, UT, etc.

[sandwolf]

Any business making $20 million or more a year ought to be paying its "primary employees" something. I know they are getting stipends now. They ought to be.Jesus, you are insufferable.

[TUSK]

Their giving level is not just high compared to ours.....they are beating Bama and in the same ball park as pretty much all of the big SEC programs, other than Florida and A&M (A&M's is a ridiculous $75.5 million). They may be a bunch of cocksuckers, but considering the size of their fan base, their lack of any real success, and the fact that they are the lesser of 2 SEC schools in a small, poor state, it is legitimately impressive that they are donating at a level that is competitive with the likes of LSU, UGA, Auburn, UT, etc.

Ole Miss generates more donations than UA? for reals?

[Reason2succeed]

Jesus, you are insufferable.

I'm not Jesus but I hope your attitude changes towards him before it is too late.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

[QUOTE=sandwolf;771329]Their giving level is not just high compared to ours.....they are beating Bama and in the same ball park as pretty much all of the big SEC programs, other than Florida and A&M (A&M's is a ridiculous $75.5 million). They may be a bunch of cocksuckers, but considering the size of their fan base, their lack of any real success, and the fact that they are the lesser of 2 SEC schools in a small, poor state, it is legitimately impressive that they are donating at a level that is competitive with the likes of LSU, UGA, Auburn, UT, etc

Trial Lawyers and Doctors are good rackets to be in...

[fader2103]

Ole Miss generates more donations than UA? for reals?

They must be including booster money and rebel rags tshirts

[beretta]

I find a few of those schools up there shocking......Kentucky in the teens was a head scratcher...Minnesota at 19? .so yes, basketball can generated some $....also have to remember, who is richer? compare what they take in, versus the expenses.....a lot of them are spending all of it.....

I really miss all the marketing, sales, and creative ideas we got from Byrne and Stricklin.....maybe Cohen is still learning the ropes, but haven't seen anything impressive out of his camp since taking over.....and those god awful bleachers by the M Club i saw just yesterday gave me "come on cohen, you can do better than that"......

[Reason2succeed]

Engineers and ag folks are just too tight with their money.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

We can probably agree that our Marketing has slipped the last few years....

[Jack Lambert]

I don't mind the gap. The gap is there because of season ticket prices are still at a relatively reasonable in price. Our average football ticket price last year was 37.00 where Ole Miss was 64.00. I suspect that this is across all sports. KY is also 37.00 for football but I suspect the Basketball ticket are a big gap between them and us.

The question is are you willing to spend more for tickets to get a bigger return? Lets make fans spend 30.00 more per game to get 3 million more in profit.

I think it is possible to improve without raising ticket prices if our Basketball team would get better. More ticket sells.

[sandwolf]

Ole Miss generates more donations than UA? for reals?For reals. They had $31.7 mil in donations versus Bama's 29.7 mil. I found that pretty surprising.....I wouldn't have expected OM to be in the same ball park as any of the big 6.

[ScreenCaptureThis]

For reals. They had $31.7 mil in donations versus Bama's 29.7 mil. I found that pretty surprising.....I wouldn't have expected OM to be in the same ball park as any of the big 6.

Which should be a huge explanation as to why they don't want any negative publicity headed towards their boosters. OM has seen a huge increase in contributions since CHF was named the big fraud in charge, so they're going to continue to circle the wagons to keep the money train chugging along. Seeing this makes it all come full circle with the investigation and the "all-in" approach with the preachy beaver.

[Mimi's Babies]

34 Mississippi State SEC $94,903,405 $84,732,091 $0 0.0 No allocated funds....

24 Mississippi SEC $110,524,705 $97,105,043 $2,398,266 2.1

Is the allocated funds, from OM the bank account, for paying the players? Or is the allocated funds there to pay former coaches?
I don't see any offer of explanation for the Allocated funding...

????? Is the list of booster donations, from their 'club', public information? That list would be very entertaining for sure.

Remember the story about the bank and ATM.... hum.....

[LC Dawg]

Trial Lawyers and Doctors are good rackets to be in...

I keep seeing there are more State grads than UM grads enrolled at UMC so I hope this helps us in future giving.
On a separate note, most of the "Ole Miss lawyers" I know graduated from MC Law School. Lots of them in south Mississippi.

[Hypnodawg]

We seem to be leaving a lot of money on the table by not using student fees to boost the athletic budget. We are one of the few SEC schools that doesn't do this.

NO. No reason to burden the students to support profitable sports. The people struggling to make ends meet, while getting an education, don't need to help Dan get a pay raise.

[Mimi's Babies]

NO. No reason to burden the students to support profitable sports. The people struggling to make ends meet, while getting an education, don't need to help Dan get a pay raise.

For many families, Football season is family time... It is for us...

[ScreenCaptureThis]

34 Mississippi State SEC $94,903,405 $84,732,091 $0 0.0 No allocated funds....

24 Mississippi SEC $110,524,705 $97,105,043 $2,398,266 2.1

Is the allocated funds, from OM the bank account, for paying the players? Or is the allocated funds there to pay former coaches?
I don't see any offer of explanation for the Allocated funding...

????? Is the list of booster donations, from their 'club', public information? That list would be very entertaining for sure.

Remember the story about the bank and ATM.... hum.....

"Total Allocated: The sum of student fees, direct and indirect institutional support and state money allocated to the athletics department, minus certain funds the department transferred back to the school. The transfer amount cannot exceed the sum of student fees and direct institutional support that the department receives from the school. (Under NCAA reporting rules, any additional money transferred to the school cannot be considered part of the department?s annual operating revenues or expenses."


The NCAA and others consider student fees, direct and indirect institutional support and state money ?allocated,? or everything not generated by the department?s athletics functions."

What's really interesting is the "other" category in OM expenditures. The "other" expenses doubled between 2012 and 2013. hmmm.... Remind me again, what year did they have their breakthrough recruiting class?


Definition of "other" expenses: "Other: Includes guarantees paid to other schools; school-specific expenses for bowl games, severance payments to past coaches and staff; recruiting; team travel; equipment and uniforms; game day and camp expenses; fundraising and marketing costs; spirit group support; medical expense/insurance; conference dues; the value of university-provided support such as administrative services, facilities and grounds maintenance, security, risk management, utilities, depreciation and debt service that is not charged to the athletics department. For 2016, also includes meals and snacks provided for athletes beyond those provided under regular board plans and during team travel."

[1bigdawg]

I saw the article, but where is a link to the breakdown of the budgets?

[Mimi's Babies]

The RECRUITING word sticks out especially in January 2016...... for 6 weeks..... I can see where the $2.3 Million dollars went...

Remember the night before signing day February 2016.... when Freeze was boosting that HE raised $250,000.00 for the recruiting class of 2016....
This was when one of the recruiters spent much time in a certain school district....

[sandwolf]

I saw the article, but where is a link to the breakdown of the budgets?Just click on the school and it pops up.

[HSVDawg]

NO. No reason to burden the students to support profitable sports. The people struggling to make ends meet, while getting an education, don't need to help Dan get a pay raise.

I don't think you get what these "student fees" are. They are a flat fee required to get season tickets that you pay before actually getting tickets. Typically they are something like $150 that you pay as an "activity fee", then you pay for the actual tickets which are only like $50. They are not required unless you want season tickets. And there are only like 7500 student tickets to go around anyways, so it would never be paid by every student.

ETA: Student fees are standard at just about every SEC school except MSU. However, in the attached study, they aren't always classified under "student fees" and are lumped into the "other revenue" column in many cases. Us and maybe Vandy are the only SEC schools where students can get season tickets for less than $100 and have no required fees on top of that. Like I said, it's money we are leaving on the table.

[PMDawg]

Jesus, you are insufferable.

Rep given. No faster way to kill NCAAF.

[BrunswickDawg]

I don't think you get what these "student fees" are. They are a flat fee required to get season tickets that you pay before actually getting tickets. Typically they are something like $150 that you pay as an "activity fee", then you pay for the actual tickets which are only like $50. They are not required unless you want season tickets. And there are only like 7500 student tickets to go around anyways, so it would never be paid by every student.

ETA: Student fees are standard at just about every SEC school except MSU. However, in the attached study, they aren't always classified under "student fees" and are lumped into the "other revenue" column in many cases. Us and maybe Vandy are the only SEC schools where students can get season tickets for less than $100 and have no required fees on top of that. Like I said, it's money we are leaving on the table.

As someone writing the check to cover that student fee - uh, no, I don't think the Student Activity Fees should be increased to give more money to athletics. I think it is a great commitment by the leaders of our university to not have fees like that paying for athletics. Athletics, run correctly, more than pay for themselves.

[Mimi's Babies]

OM....
YEAR TICKET SALES CONTR. RIGHTS/LICENSING STUDENT FEES SCHOOL FUNDS OTHER TOTAL REVENUES
2016 $20,616,537 $31,692,460 $50,160,473 $1,911,778 $2,577,501 $3,565,956 $110,524,705
2005 $6,416,035 $6,917,703 $7,798,728 $3,089,375 $499,210 $781,543 $25,502,594

Difference.
$14,200,502 $24,774,757 $42,361,745 -$1,177579 $2,078,291 $2,784,413 $85,022,201 Boy oh boy is the rue stirring......

[Mimi's Babies]

As someone writing the check to cover that student fee - uh, no, I don't think the Student Activity Fees should be increased to give more money to athletics. I think it is a great commitment by the leaders of our university to not have fees like that paying for athletics. Athletics, run correctly, more than pay for themselves.

With a new roof needed on the Sanderson center.... and the updates that need to be done.... That is where the student fees should be spent. BUT, the students receiving the free tickets should stay for the entire ballgame.....

[smootness]

Any business making $20 million or more a year ought to be paying its "primary employees" something. I know they are getting stipends now. They ought to be.

It's not a business.

[dawgman15]

With a new roof needed on the Sanderson center.... and the updates that need to be done.... That is where the student fees should be spent. BUT, the students receiving the free tickets should stay for the entire ballgame.....

As a student the tickets aren't free, they cost 50 dollars. I do agree though that the students should stay longer. I usually only notice others leaving when we are getting whooped.

[IMissJack]

[QUOTE=HSVDawg;771288]A lot of interesting info from that:

- Ole Miss is killing us in both ticket sales revenue and giving. Neither of which makes sense (especially the ticket sales). It will be interesting to see if that trend continues over the next year with the NCAA cloud looming.
- Anyone that thinks college basketball is a non revenue sport is kidding themselves. Kentucky and Arkansas each had a whopping $37 million in ticket sales revenue, about $9 million more than Georgia. It sure as hell ain't because of football tickets being more expensive at either place.
- We seem to be leaving a lot of money on the table by not using student fees to boost the athletic budget. We are one of the few SEC schools that doesn't do this.
- Our Adidas deal actually seems pretty good. We are in the ballpark with what Auburn gets from Under Armour and get a couple million more than OM does from Nike.[/QUO

If OM does not get to keep the SEC money for probation years, our number will go up and theirs down...

[Mimi's Babies]

[QUOTE=HSVDawg;771288]A lot of interesting info from that:

- Ole Miss is killing us in both ticket sales revenue and giving. Neither of which makes sense (especially the ticket sales). It will be interesting to see if that trend continues over the next year with the NCAA cloud looming.
- Anyone that thinks college basketball is a non revenue sport is kidding themselves. Kentucky and Arkansas each had a whopping $37 million in ticket sales revenue, about $9 million more than Georgia. It sure as hell ain't because of football tickets being more expensive at either place.
- We seem to be leaving a lot of money on the table by not using student fees to boost the athletic budget. We are one of the few SEC schools that doesn't do this.
- Our Adidas deal actually seems pretty good. We are in the ballpark with what Auburn gets from Under Armour and get a couple million more than OM does from Nike.[/QUO

If OM does not get to keep the SEC money for probation years, our number will go up and theirs down...

Wait, do I remember reading that OM has to pay a penalty on ALL of that money to the NCAA.... Great timing USA Today....

[Mimi's Babies]

As a student the tickets aren't free, they cost 50 dollars. I do agree though that the students should stay longer. I usually only notice others leaving when we are getting whooped.

I remember when the tickets were $100.00 per year..... for season tickets....

[Lord McBuckethead]

They must be including booster money and rebel rags tshirts

Well it puts them over the top. Those are some nice tshirts.

[AusTexDawg]

I don't think you get what these "student fees" are. They are a flat fee required to get season tickets that you pay before actually getting tickets. Typically they are something like $150 that you pay as an "activity fee", then you pay for the actual tickets which are only like $50. They are not required unless you want season tickets. And there are only like 7500 student tickets to go around anyways, so it would never be paid by every student.

ETA: Student fees are standard at just about every SEC school except MSU. However, in the attached study, they aren't always classified under "student fees" and are lumped into the "other revenue" column in many cases. Us and maybe Vandy are the only SEC schools where students can get season tickets for less than $100 and have no required fees on top of that. Like I said, it's money we are leaving on the table.

At many schools, the student activity fee is mandatory for all students, and not dependent on whether the student purchases season tickets or not. These fees often cover a variety of things such as "campus concerts, support of the student union [and/or] recreational center...but often the lion's share of the fee supports sports," as described in this Forbes article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2014/11/20/athletic-spending-alert-how-students-are-subsidizing-wannabe-power-house-schools/#5e02f7a71bc2). This is very common at schools outside the Power 5 and in DII and DIII as a way to help pay costs not covered by meager ticket sales and media rights revenue.

[Mimi's Babies]

MSU
Student Fees from 2012-2016 $12,150,000.00
School funds 2012-2016 "ZERO"
Other (recruiting) $16,531,039 (2014 -- $4,915,280.00)

OM
Student Fees from 2012-2016 $10,373,209.00
School funds 2012-2016 $8,058,890.00
Other (recruiting) $19,536,171 (2014 -- $7.299,249.00)

Student Fees are collected from students ENROLLED in college.... So sure the amount of the fees collected will be more because of more enrollment. MSU took ZERO School funds from 2012 to 2016.... In 2016 took ZERO student fees. These numbers lead me to be believe that MSU is a better MANAGER of Donations, ticket sales, etc.....

[IMissJack]

It's not a business.


If it's a business then I want the shareholder's (donations) to get a portion of the profits. This is never going to happen, so it is not a business.

[biggun]

I find a few of those schools up there shocking......Kentucky in the teens was a head scratcher...Minnesota at 19? .so yes, basketball can generated some $....also have to remember, who is richer? compare what they take in, versus the expenses.....a lot of them are spending all of it.....

I really miss all the marketing, sales, and creative ideas we got from Byrne and Stricklin.....maybe Cohen is still learning the ropes, but haven't seen anything impressive out of his camp since taking over.....and those god awful bleachers by the M Club i saw just yesterday gave me "come on cohen, you can do better than that"......

Winning in football and basketball is the best marketing plan you can draw up. 5-7 with blowout losses @ home to Auburn & Arkansas plus the USA debacle to kick off the season did not exactly have everyone reaching for their pocketbook. Basketball has been a disaster for almost a decade. Winning trumps all.

[1bigdawg]

I remember when the tickets were $100.00 per year..... for season tickets....

AND we had trouble filling the stadium!

[HSVDawg]

As someone writing the check to cover that student fee - uh, no, I don't think the Student Activity Fees should be increased to give more money to athletics. I think it is a great commitment by the leaders of our university to not have fees like that paying for athletics. Athletics, run correctly, more than pay for themselves.

You don't have to pay it. That's the point. Only if your kid wants season football tickets would you or he/she have to pay for that. Your choice or your child's choice. But this is the SEC - big boy football - and we are pretty much the only school that doesn't do that and in doing so we have $1-$2 million in untapped revenue. As someone who has already paid 5 years tuition at a school and being asked to fork over $1200 for seats that are equivalent to where students sit for $75 per seat, its a little ridiculous. I'm not asking to pay less, I'm asking for a large group who are getting a hell of a bargain unmatched anywhere else at this level of football to pay a little more. Supply / demand.

[HSVDawg]

At many schools, the student activity fee is mandatory for all students, and not dependent on whether the student purchases season tickets or not. These fees often cover a variety of things such as "campus concerts, support of the student union [and/or] recreational center...but often the lion's share of the fee supports sports," as described in this Forbes article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2014/11/20/athletic-spending-alert-how-students-are-subsidizing-wannabe-power-house-schools/#5e02f7a71bc2). This is very common at schools outside the Power 5 and in DII and DIII as a way to help pay costs not covered by meager ticket sales and media rights revenue.

That's cool. That's not what I'm proposing though. I'm talking about either increasing price of student tickets for football or keeping the same price but putting a fee in place in order for students to be eligible for season tickets to all sports.

We currently sell out of student season tickets every year. If we up the price by $150-200 per student, I guarantee you we are still going to sell out of student tickets. And even if we don't, we can lower the allotment and free up additional lower level seats for future full priced season ticket sales.

[gravedigger]

"Total Allocated: The sum of student fees, direct and indirect institutional support and state money allocated to the athletics department, minus certain funds the department transferred back to the school. The transfer amount cannot exceed the sum of student fees and direct institutional support that the department receives from the school. (Under NCAA reporting rules, any additional money transferred to the school cannot be considered part of the department?s annual operating revenues or expenses."


The NCAA and others consider student fees, direct and indirect institutional support and state money ?allocated,? or everything not generated by the department?s athletics functions."

What's really interesting is the "other" category in OM expenditures. The "other" expenses doubled between 2012 and 2013. hmmm.... Remind me again, what year did they have their breakthrough recruiting class?


Definition of "other" expenses: "Other: Includes guarantees paid to other schools; school-specific expenses for bowl games, severance payments to past coaches and staff; recruiting; team travel; equipment and uniforms; game day and camp expenses; fundraising and marketing costs; spirit group support; medical expense/insurance; conference dues; the value of university-provided support such as administrative services, facilities and grounds maintenance, security, risk management, utilities, depreciation and debt service that is not charged to the athletics department. For 2016, also includes meals and snacks provided for athletes beyond those provided under regular board plans and during team travel."

If anyone believes one thing financially or statistically that emerges from that lower intestine they call a university, they deserve the stress that goes with it.

I've heard for years about the bs enrollment numbers, and anything else you can think of, that leads me to believe that OM is the single worst return on investment per dollar since Jeffrey Skillin at Enron was given a show cause by the judicial system.

[HSVDawg]

Winning in football and basketball is the best marketing plan you can draw up. 5-7 with blowout losses @ home to Auburn & Arkansas plus the USA debacle to kick off the season did not exactly have everyone reaching for their pocketbook. Basketball has been a disaster for almost a decade. Winning trumps all.

The figures in the article were for the 2015-2016 academic year, which Dak's senior season and the year where we were coming off our most successful football season in 20 years. There is no reason anyone should have been "sitting on their pocketbook" during that time. All the stuff you mentioned about 5-7 and a loss to USA won't come into play until we start looking at next year's report, if it even comes into play at all.