Independence Day reading: College basketball's free agent market

[Rick Cleveland]

https://mississippitoday.org/2017/07/04/college-basketball-transfers-epidemic-or-just-the-american-way/

[biscuit]

Wow. Interesting. This is killing the sport, and great article as always.

[MarketingBully]

Great article Rick! I didn't realize that Kegler will have been at four different schools in four years. Makes you wonder if he will stick at Baylor when the going gets rough there or will he just move on to the next thing...

[maroonmania]

The biggest difference with us it that we used to have players transferring that wanted a better opportunity and more playing time. Lately we are losing guys that are either starters or getting lots of playing time as FRESHMAN who are jumping ship and keep setting our program back (Newman and Kegler and even back to Hood, etc.). We would have actually been better off had they never signed so that other guys could be getting experience AND we could have signed guys that would have actually stayed and contributed. I mean these players get key roles at the their most productive positions but Newman feels he has to be a PG and Kegler I guess felt like he has to be a SF. The ironic thing is that programs like Kansas and Baylor aren't going to play guys out of their best position either. I will be shocked if Newman is running the show at the point at Kansas this coming year. Ten to fifteen years ago I really loved college basketball but now I just get more apathetic towards it every year. NBA is about the same way for me. This year I watched most every game of the NHL playoffs that had the Predators playing but didn't watch any of the NBA playoffs, even the finals.

[thf24]

What's mind blowing to me is that, faced with this issue that's obviously hurting the sport and turning fans off, the NCAA is considering relaxing transfer penalties even more. It simply defies reason.

[Rick Cleveland]

Will be interesting to see what Malik does at Kansas. From predicted one and done, to 21-year-old red-shirt sophomore...

[ShotgunDawg]

Takes notes folks.

This is why baseball is the best sport to raise your kid to play. It's nothing but learning how to deal with failure.

On the day they Pete Rose got his 3,000th hit, the media asked him how he felt and Pete was quick to remind them that he had to get out 7,000 times to get that 3,000th hit.

[MarketingBully]

Will be interesting to see what Malik does at Kansas. From predicted one and done, to 21-year-old red-shirt sophomore...

Yep and it looks like Coach Self is banking on Newman being the guy for him this year even though they have a better SG option who could be a lottery pick that probably will come off the bench. They didn't get the kid from Oklahoma who was one of the top PGs in last year's class (Trae Young I think?) who ended up at Oklahoma. They were one of his finalists last year and had Newman not landed there would have gotten him. Kansas is definitely a tournament team but I doubt they go as far as they expect them to go and they are not a top five team if they feature Newman like Self has been stating in the preseason.

[MarketingBully]

Takes notes folks.

This is why baseball is the best sport to raise your kid to play. It's nothing but learning how to deal with failure.

On the day they Pete Rose got his 3,000th hit, the media asked him how he felt and Pete was quick to remind them that he had to get out 7,000 times to get that 3,000th hit.

It's the generation. And the one and done rule has really hurt college basketball more then it has helped it. A player like Newman would never have gone to college period and thus the perception damage his transfer had never would have happened. You are basically forcing kids to go to college who don't want to be there. Let them go to the NBADL and develop there. The only team the one and done rule has helped is UK and its only because of the used car salesman they have as coach. It's not like he is developing these kids whatsoever. He is just renting them for one year and benefiting from being able to say he has this many lottery picks. The truth is those kids would have been lottery picks regardless of where they spent the year.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

. The only team the one and done rule has helped is UK and its only because of the used car salesman they have as coach.

The 1 & done has helped Coach K also.

[Dawg61]

It's our fault for continuing to sign the Ohmar Carter Flopstars. You don't see Gonzaga, Wichita State, Creighton, Butler, VCU, SFA, St. Mary's having many transfer out or one and dones yet you see those teams in the NCAA every year. We could just copy their strategy and recruit the same types of players as they do and probably have similar success but we refuse to do it. Opportunity is there for the taking since the rest of the SEC refuses to do it also.

[HSVDawg]

The biggest difference with us it that we used to have players transferring that wanted a better opportunity and more playing time. Lately we are losing guys that are either starters or getting lots of playing time as FRESHMAN who are jumping ship and keep setting our program back (Newman and Kegler and even back to Hood, etc.). We would have actually been better off had they never signed so that other guys could be getting experience AND we could have signed guys that would have actually stayed and contributed. I mean these players get key roles at the their most productive positions but Newman feels he has to be a PG and Kegler I guess felt like he has to be a SF. The ironic thing is that programs like Kansas and Baylor aren't going to play guys out of their best position either. I will be shocked if Newman is running the show at the point at Kansas this coming year. Ten to fifteen years ago I really loved college basketball but now I just get more apathetic towards it every year. NBA is about the same way for me. This year I watched most every game of the NHL playoffs that had the Predators playing but didn't watch any of the NBA playoffs, even the finals.

Hansbrough, Reggie Delk, and Robert Jackson were all starters, too. As were guys like Shane Power and Arnett Moultrie who came into our program. Losing starters to transfer isn't a new thing for us or for anyone. Its been happening with regularity in college basketball for close to two decades now.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

It's our fault for continuing to sign the Ohmar Carter Flopstars. You don't see Gonzaga, Wichita State, Creighton, Butler, VCU, SFA, St. Mary's having many transfer out or one and dones yet you see those teams in the NCAA every year. We could just copy their strategy and recruit the same types of players as they do and probably have similar success but we refuse to do it. Opportunity is there for the taking since the rest of the SEC refuses to do it also.

This just isn't true. Not close to true. The last 5yrs for the 1st 4 schools you listed

Gonzaga - 4 Transfers Out & 9 Transfers In

Wichita St - 7 Transfers Out & 4 Transfers In

Creighton - 8 Transfers Out & 4 Transfers In

Butler - 9 Transfers Out & 5 Transfers In

I think you get the picture.

[smootness]

This just isn't true. Not close to true. The last 5yrs for the 1st 4 schools you listed

Gonzaga - 4 Transfers Out & 9 Transfers In

Wichita St - 7 Transfers Out & 4 Transfers In

Creighton - 8 Transfers Out & 4 Transfers In

Butler - 9 Transfers Out & 5 Transfers In

I think you get the picture.

Oops

[Dawg61]

This just isn't true. Not close to true. The last 5yrs for the 1st 4 schools you listed

Gonzaga - 4 Transfers Out & 9 Transfers In

Wichita St - 7 Transfers Out & 4 Transfers In

Creighton - 8 Transfers Out & 4 Transfers In

Butler - 9 Transfers Out & 5 Transfers In

I think you get the picture.

Is the picture that you're skewing the story? How many of those transferring out are/were starters and how many of those transferring in became starters? Looks to me like positive turnover. We have negative turnover. We lose starters and don't have future starters transfer in or very few in the last five years.

Where are you finding a transfer list btw thanks

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Is the picture that you're skewing the story? How many of those transferring out are/were starters and how many of those transferring in became starters? Looks to me like positive turnover. We have negative turnover. We lose starters and don't have future starters transfer in or very few in the last five years.

Where are you finding a transfer list btw thanks

I didn't go as deep into the analytics. You said they don't have near the transfers I was just proving it to be a false statement. I'm not saying that our turnover has been good. My point is that everybody has turnover whether good or bad. That what I was refuting not that we have good turnover.

http://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/West-Coast-Conference/11/Gonzaga/332/transfers

That site includes juco transfers in too which I didn't include in my list because those are recruited guys.

[Dawg61]

I didn't go as deep into the analytics.

I wish you would though as I am now very curious to see if that is just positive trimming the fat that is happening. Are those starters transferring out or are those guys at the end of the bench and those teams are replacing them with more productive players? You are correct in saying my initial statement is wrong but it's not really what I mean if those are players that see very few minutes and you know that's not what I mean too. Good stuff regardless, thanks for posting it.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I wish you would though as I am now very curious to see if that is just positive trimming the fat that is happening. Are those starters transferring out or are those guys at the end of the bench and those teams are replacing them with more productive players? You are correct in saying my initial statement is wrong but it's not really what I mean if those are players that see very few minutes and you know that's not what I mean too. Good stuff regardless, thanks for posting it.

Yea I'd need a little more free time to go through those list. Now that I see what you were really referring to then the list probably would change a good bit. No problem.

[Percho]

Is the picture that you're skewing the story? How many of those transferring out are/were starters and how many of those transferring in became starters? Looks to me like positive turnover. We have negative turnover. We lose starters and don't have future starters transfer in or very few in the last five years.

Where are you finding a transfer list btw thanks

And they get a, knee!