Phil Steele's offensive rankings brings some sobering info

[lamont]

Steele ranks State on offense this way:

QB-4
RB-13
WR-9
OL-13

QB- with the talent at QB in the SEC this year, I have no problems with a #4 ranking heading into the season. Hurts, Allen, Stidham, Fitz, Eason should all have good seasons. Then you look as LSU, SC, Kentucky, Mizzou all return solid QB's as well. Florida finally has a full stable of QB talent. Best QB talent the SEC has had at once that I can remember

RB- He has us at 13 due to looking at the whole group- and while that may be a little low- its hard to put us in the top 10. State RB's return 777 yards- 11th most in the SEC. Bama, Georgia, Auburn, LSU, A&M, and Mizzou are loaded at RB. Those teams return a minimum of 1600 yards at TB. State fans obviously feel good about our RB situation-especially after starting a munchkin at TB before Williams- but when you look at the entire SEC, its loaded at RB.

WR- 9th. Thanks Phil- I'll take it. Gray and Mixon should have good seasons. Need a bounce-back season from Myles. Our TE group should play a big part in the success of our passing game this year. Depth at WR is a huge concern- staying injury-free at WR is paramount for this season's success

OL- 13th. I dont think our OL will be this bad- but there is lots of concern. We dont return many starts- somewhere around 40 or the high 30's total. Our Center will not have played one college play as a Center. Another starter will not have played one college play in college and will be green. There is no depth at OT or C.
On the bright side- Rankin played well the 2nd half of 2016, Calhoun is a good OG. Jenkins has alot to learn at Center- but he is a good OL player. Williams was improving before his injury last year. We do have OG-depth in case someone goes down there. This group probably struggles the 1st half of 2017 because of the tough early schedule and then comes on the 2nd half of the season.

There is certain reason for optimism in 2017 and this certainly could be a 7 win team in 2017. However- its not hard to see the concerns for 2017.

[Tbonewannabe]

Steele ranks State on offense this way:

QB-4
RB-13
WR-9
OL-13

QB- with the talent at QB in the SEC this year, I have no problems with a #4 ranking heading into the season. Hurts, Allen, Stidham, Fitz, Eason should all have good seasons. Then you look as LSU, SC, Kentucky, Mizzou all return solid QB's as well. Florida finally has a full stable of QB talent. Best QB talent the SEC has had at once that I can remember

RB- He has us at 13 due to looking at the whole group- and while that may be a little low- its hard to put us in the top 10. State RB's return 777 yards- 11th most in the SEC. Bama, Georgia, Auburn, LSU, A&M, and Mizzou are loaded at RB. Those teams return a minimum of 1600 yards at TB. State fans obviously feel good about our RB situation-especially after starting a munchkin at TB before Williams- but when you look at the entire SEC, its loaded at RB.

WR- 9th. Thanks Phil- I'll take it. Gray and Mixon should have good seasons. Need a bounce-back season from Myles. Our TE group should play a big part in the success of our passing game this year. Depth at WR is a huge concern- staying injury-free at WR is paramount for this season's success

OL- 13th. I dont think our OL will be this bad- but there is lots of concern. We dont return many starts- somewhere around 40 or the high 30's total. Our Center will not have played one college play as a Center. Another starter will not have played one college play in college and will be green. There is no depth at OT or C.
On the bright side- Rankin played well the 2nd half of 2016, Calhoun is a good OG. Jenkins has alot to learn at Center- but he is a good OL player. Williams was improving before his injury last year. We do have OG-depth in case someone goes down there. This group probably struggles the 1st half of 2017 because of the tough early schedule and then comes on the 2nd half of the season.

There is certain reason for optimism in 2017 and this certainly could be a 7 win team in 2017. However- its not hard to see the concerns for 2017.

QB at #4 seems low. Fitz is the best big play QB in the SEC but I could see Hurts being ranked ahead of him. Allen, Eason, and Fitz are all pretty close though.

RB at #13 is low also. If Williams played the entire year like the back half then he goes over 1k. I could see being back half of the SEC but not next to last.

WR #9. Subtract Donald Gray and this group would be #15. Donald Gray is going to have to play up to potential and give guys a chance to get some catches to develop confidence.

OL #13. I can't complain. Did we get the transfer from UT because we need another tackle? Same as WR except if a tackle or center goes down then the line is screwed.

[PassInterference]

Buy or sell: Our WR roster has reached Sly Croom levels.

[DownwardDawg]

Buy or sell: Our WR roster has reached Sly Croom levels.

Soft sell. At least we have 1 decent option in Gray. Our TE's will help that group as well.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think the QB's could have been anywhere from 1-5 - Steele really could have ranked them 1A-1E - they all have their +'s & -'s and their success will depend more on the team around them.

RB is just the fact of being in the SEC. No matter what, the SEC will always have the best of the best at RB. It is a little low, but doesn't really concern me.

WR is about right. I think we have potential to be better if Myles gets back to catching the ball instead of dropping 2 of every 3. And, no, we are no where near Croom level with our WR. Just stop that talk. We had only 1 season under Croom where our leading receiver went for more than 600 yards. Gray went for 709 last season, and was second behind Ross. Gray will get 900+, and someone else will step up for that 500-700 #2 role.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think the QB's could have been anywhere from 1-5 - Steele really could have ranked them 1A-1E - they all have their +'s & -'s and their success will depend more on the team around them.

RB is just the fact of being in the SEC. No matter what, the SEC will always have the best of the best at RB. It is a little low, but doesn't really concern me.

WR is about right. I think we have potential to be better if Myles gets back to catching the ball instead of dropping 2 of every 3. And, no, we are no where near Croom level with our WR. Just stop that talk. We had only 1 season under Croom where our leading receiver went for more than 600 yards. Gray went for 709 last season, and was second behind Ross. Gray will get 900+, and someone else will step up for that 500-700 #2 role.

I know Gray has more straight line speed but I wish we would use him like we did with Jameon Lewis. We moved him all over just to get the ball in his hands. I guess if Gray can consistently take the top off the defense then Mixon and the TEs can eat up the middle of the field.

[Dawgowar]

Soft sell. At least we have 1 decent option in Gray. Our TE's will help that group as well.

"One decent Option" has been our DNA since I have been a Dawg. McDole, nobody else. Glenn Young, nobody else (Danny Knight was a wingback), Sherrill never had two WR's who played consistent together. It was the one glaring weakness I had hoped, along with QB's, that Mullen would fix.

I hope they get more out of this group than what we see now. I do not understand for the life of me why we do not address this position. OL, plenty of theories on that issue. WR's, there are too many kids out there that can play the position in this offense to not have a stable full of potential. A good to great college WR does not have to be an NFL prototype in the spread.

Truly hope we are pleasantly surprised.

[Tbonewannabe]

"One decent Option" has been our DNA since I have been a Dawg. McDole, nobody else. Glenn Young, nobody else (Danny Knight was a wingback), Sherrill never had two WR's who played consistent together. It was the one glaring weakness I had hoped, along with QB's, that Mullen would fix.

I hope they get more out of this group than what we see now. I do not understand for the life of me why we do not address this position. OL, plenty of theories on that issue. WR's, there are too many kids out there that can play the position in this offense to not have a stable full of potential. A good to great college WR does not have to be an NFL prototype in the spread.

Truly hope we are pleasantly surprised.

WR in Mullen's offense is similar to RB, you have to be able to block to get on the field. One thing that Bear did as a freshman was he blocked the shit out of DBs.

[MetEdDawg]

There is a zero percent chance we end the year and people say we have the 13th best RB situation in the conference. But since most journalists and publications don't pay attention, I'm not shocked they are ranked there preseason. We will finish inside the Top 8 in that category.

QB situation is going to end up worse than 4th in my opinion, but that's going to be because our WR situation is so terribly bad. Fitz is a Top 3 QB in the league right now, but when you are throwing to what could be on paper the worst WR core in the conference, you don't ever finish Top 3 in the league as a QB. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised by the WR, but right now that position scares the heck out of me.

There is also a zero percent chance our OL finishes 13th. We may not be great, but we aren't that bad and never will be. I think they end up looking like the 8th or 9th best unit in the league.

[Ari Gold]

Isn't This the bag that didn't even have our roster correct in his magazine?? I'm sure he is spot on with his breakdown ..

[BiscuitEater]

"One decent Option" has been our DNA since I have been a Dawg.

You have to go way back to '67, '68 to find Sammy Milner and David Smith receiving and 'All SEC QB' Tommy Pharr. Y'all young'ens have 'no clue' just HOW really bad MSU football was 'before Jackie & Dan. Anyone complaining about ANY winning season needs to go read about the '60's. It's real sobering

To emphasize how bad State, and its offense in particular, was in 1967, in LSU's 55-0 win over State, the Tigers' 55 points in that one game was more than State scored all season, 49.

1968 was a wide open, colorful season. The conference season started with the defending SEC Champion (Tennessee) tying the eventual SEC champion (Georgia) 17-17 on a two point conversion after time had expired, and the conference season ended with the AP first team All-SEC quarterback's team tying the following season's AP first team All-SEC quarterback's team 17-17** . Tommy Pharr of winless Mississippi State was named AP first team All-SEC in 1968. The Bulldogs posted an 0-8-2 mark. The Bullies failed to win a game, yet their quarterback was first team All-SEC. And, deservedly so. Pharr had a tremendous season in '68.


**Archie was a Soph; MSU LOST a home game to LaTech and QB Terry Bradshaw. MSU tied OM 17-17 and students partied like it was a Sugar Bowl win. It WAS that bad.

[Pollodawg]

It's Phil Steele. Outside of calling the big boys, he's pretty hot or miss.

[Dawgowar]

You have to go way back to '67, '68 to find Sammy Milner and David Smith receiving and 'All SEC QB' Tommy Pharr. Y'all young'ens have 'no clue' just HOW really bad MSU football was 'before Jackie & Dan. Anyone complaining about ANY winning season needs to go read about the '60's. It's real sobering

To emphasize how bad State, and its offense in particular, was in 1967, in LSU's 55-0 win over State, the Tigers' 55 points in that one game was more than State scored all season, 49.

1968 was a wide open, colorful season. The conference season started with the defending SEC Champion (Tennessee) tying the eventual SEC champion (Georgia) 17-17 on a two point conversion after time had expired, and the conference season ended with the AP first team All-SEC quarterback's team tying the following season's AP first team All-SEC quarterback's team 17-17** . Tommy Pharr of winless Mississippi State was named AP first team All-SEC in 1968. The Bulldogs posted an 0-8-2 mark. The Bullies failed to win a game, yet their quarterback was first team All-SEC. And, deservedly so. Pharr had a tremendous season in '68.


**Archie was a Soph; MSU LOST a home game to LaTech and QB Terry Bradshaw. MSU tied OM 17-17 and students partied like it was a Sugar Bowl win. It WAS that bad.

Thankfully I was spared the carnage by being moved around the country as a Navy brat. Heard the misery of one side (MSU) and the 'This is the year' BS of the other whenever we came home for the summers. That went on from about 1967 to my HS Graduation in '81. We lived in Mississippi one year while Dad was in 'Nam the first go around. That was the season Archie got hurt. Wasn't too into football apart from the Dallas Cowboys then. Staubach was Navy, Dad was Navy. That's all it took. But I do truly appreciate where this university has been and how far it has been built.

We didn't even have lights in the stadium when I was there. They brought in portable ones for two games that were televised. That was so exciting - us being on TV, that half of us went home to say we SAW MSU on TV LOL. Good times.

[Spiderman]

"One decent Option" has been our DNA since I have been a Dawg. McDole, nobody else. Glenn Young, nobody else (Danny Knight was a wingback), Sherrill never had two WR's who played consistent together. It was the one glaring weakness I had hoped, along with QB's, that Mullen would fix.

I hope they get more out of this group than what we see now. I do not understand for the life of me why we do not address this position. OL, plenty of theories on that issue. WR's, there are too many kids out there that can play the position in this offense to not have a stable full of potential. A good to great college WR does not have to be an NFL prototype in the spread.

Truly hope we are pleasantly surprised.

Sherrill had Harris and Truitt, and Moulds and Jones as combos

[lamont]

Seems like many of you were saying last year how wrong Steele was last year too. Except he ended up being pretty close

[1bigdawg]

There is also a zero percent chance our OL finishes 13th. We may not be great, but we aren't that bad and never will be. I think they end up looking like the 8th or 9th best unit in the league.

Can you name the 4 or 5 teams that will have a worse OL than us?

[Jack Lambert]

He also said that he is picking us to finish last in the West even though we will probably not finish last. He is on Asinine mother ****er.

[MetEdDawg]

Can you name the 4 or 5 teams that will have a worse OL than us?

Vandy, UK, and SC are 3 I definitely feel like we can say aren't really any better than ours on paper. Maybe by a little, but nowhere near saying they are definitively better. Georgia's OL is going to be pretty bad too. Lot of people feel that is what will keep them from elevating themselves in the East.

Also, OM has the recruiting star power at OL, but are we convinced they are going to be better than us on the OL? They gave up more than 2 sacks a game last year. We gave up 1.4 and return 3 starters with a senior at center. I think our OL has much more potential to surprise in the positive than the negative.

[MoreCowbell]

Arkansas OL was awful last year, Austin Allen was sacked and ungodly amount. He was sacked 34 times for -256 yds.

[lamont]

Arkansas OL was awful last year, Austin Allen was sacked and ungodly amount. He was sacked 34 times for -256 yds.

The good side of that is they have 4 starters returning

[lamont]

Also, OM has the recruiting star power at OL, but are we convinced they are going to be better than us on the OL? They gave up more than 2 sacks a game last year. We gave up 1.4 and return 3 starters with a senior at center. I think our OL has much more potential to surprise in the positive than the negative.

I'd certainly put OM's OL ahead of ours- not sure how you couldnt


I look for us to be in the 9-11 range on the OL overall

[Bothrops]

I'd certainly put OM's OL ahead of ours- not sure how you couldnt


I look for us to be in the 9-11 range on the OL overall

If we can add Hodges I'd call it about even.

[lamont]

adding Hodges would be huge- we need an experienced OT badly

[Dawg61]

Steele ranks State on offense this way:
RB-13


Hahahaha what a ****ing joke!!! Have we ever in the our history had the 13th best rushing attack in the SEC (11th best before the stepsisters got added) oh and our QB almost rushed for the All-Time SEC rushing record for a QB last year but I am sure that doesn't matter cause he is listed as a QB not a RB

[lamont]

Hahahaha what a ****ing joke!!! Have we ever in the our history had the 13th best rushing attack in the SEC

Our RB's were absolutely 13th in the SEC last year

[QuadrupleOption]

Our RB's were absolutely 13th in the SEC last year

You aren't wrong but he said 'rushing attack', not RBs. We were #4 in total rushing yards and YPC, #5 in rushing yards per game (233), #9 in rushing TDs.

Fitz's rushing abilities have to be factored into our running game and its expected effectiveness. We won't have the #13 rushing attack in the conference this season.

[Pollodawg]

Seems like many of you were saying last year how wrong Steele was last year too. Except he ended up being pretty close


What were his predictions for MSU last season?

[FISHDAWG]

Arkansas OL was awful last year, Austin Allen was sacked and ungodly amount. He was sacked 34 times for -256 yds.

I don't think they punted ... not one time against us last year

[maroonmania]

Swap the RB and WR prediction rankings and I could live with it. I really don't give a flying flip what we did throughout the entire year last year at RB because Mullen and Knox wasted tons of carries on Holloway and Shumpert. The future should be based on what happened the last 4 SEC games where Williams had 450 yards rushing and averaged over 6 yards per carry. Plus we have a 4 star backup in Gibson and Hill coming in as a 4 star and the most college ready RB Mullen has signed out of HS. Its a freakin' joke that he has us tied with UNM for last. The Bears don't have a clue what a RB is and only use one as a diversion for their passing game. Now WR is another story, pretty much everything is an unknown there past Gray (given we lost Dear) and even Gray wasn't very effective last year against good competition. Anything better than 13th or 14th at that position as far as a pre-season prediction is gravy. Could be slightly low at OL and maybe even QB but I'm not going to fuss about those too much.

[Pollodawg]

This is a Mullen team. It will do Mullen team things. 7 win floor 9 win max.

[Dawg61]

Aeris Williams is gonna make a lot of writers and posters look like idiots this year. He is about to blow up. Bookmark me

[bulldawg28]

The good side of that is they have 4 starters returning

My bet of 8 wins still stands and your still running

[Liverpooldawg]

Phil Steele? YAWN.

[MedDawg]

During Mullen's years State has finished in the SEC for team rushing: #4 in 2016, #10 in 2015, 3, 8, 9, 6, 2, 4. Our "running game" will be just fine. We have been in the top half of team rushing nearly every year.

Basing team rushing potential only on returning RB rushing yards means squat. If they don't want to count QB rushing yards for our RB's, then they da*n well better add QB rushing yards to our QB's ranking and put Fitz higher than 4th. FITZ LED THE ENTIRE SEC IN YARDS FROM SCRIMMAGE LAST YEAR. Don't just ignore 1,300 QB rushing yards because QB's are based on passer ratings.

[maroonmania]

During Mullen's years State has finished in the SEC for team rushing: #4 in 2016, #10 in 2015, 3, 8, 9, 6, 2, 4. Our "running game" will be just fine. We have been in the top half of team rushing nearly every year.

Basing team rushing potential only on returning RB rushing yards means squat. If they don't want to count QB rushing yards for our RB's, then they da*n well better add QB rushing yards to our QB's ranking and put Fitz higher than 4th. FITZ LED THE ENTIRE SEC IN YARDS FROM SCRIMMAGE LAST YEAR. Don't just ignore 1,300 QB rushing yards because QB's are based on passer ratings.

Well to be fair if you took the rushing element away from Fitz in the QB rating there is no way we would have the #4 QB group.

[Coach007]

Steele ranks State on offense this way:

QB-4
RB-13
WR-9
OL-13

QB- with the talent at QB in the SEC this year, I have no problems with a #4 ranking heading into the season. Hurts, Allen, Stidham, Fitz, Eason should all have good seasons. Then you look as LSU, SC, Kentucky, Mizzou all return solid QB's as well. Florida finally has a full stable of QB talent. Best QB talent the SEC has had at once that I can remember

RB- He has us at 13 due to looking at the whole group- and while that may be a little low- its hard to put us in the top 10. State RB's return 777 yards- 11th most in the SEC. Bama, Georgia, Auburn, LSU, A&M, and Mizzou are loaded at RB. Those teams return a minimum of 1600 yards at TB. State fans obviously feel good about our RB situation-especially after starting a munchkin at TB before Williams- but when you look at the entire SEC, its loaded at RB.

WR- 9th. Thanks Phil- I'll take it. Gray and Mixon should have good seasons. Need a bounce-back season from Myles. Our TE group should play a big part in the success of our passing game this year. Depth at WR is a huge concern- staying injury-free at WR is paramount for this season's success

OL- 13th. I dont think our OL will be this bad- but there is lots of concern. We dont return many starts- somewhere around 40 or the high 30's total. Our Center will not have played one college play as a Center. Another starter will not have played one college play in college and will be green. There is no depth at OT or C.
On the bright side- Rankin played well the 2nd half of 2016, Calhoun is a good OG. Jenkins has alot to learn at Center- but he is a good OL player. Williams was improving before his injury last year. We do have OG-depth in case someone goes down there. This group probably struggles the 1st half of 2017 because of the tough early schedule and then comes on the 2nd half of the season.

There is certain reason for optimism in 2017 and this certainly could be a 7 win team in 2017. However- its not hard to see the concerns for 2017.

QB-2
RB-7
Wr- 4
OL- 9

Defense- 5

[TUSK]

You aren't wrong but he said 'rushing attack', not RBs. We were #4 in total rushing yards and YPC, #5 in rushing yards per game (233), #9 in rushing TDs.

Fitz's rushing abilities have to be factored into our running game and its expected effectiveness. We won't have the #13 rushing attack in the conference this season.

I've a hard time believing Fitz will be effective "RB" against an average/above average SEC Run D... unless he gets way more accurate & better pass pro...

That being said, if the pocket breaks down, he might make some big plays...

[Coach007]

I've a hard time believing Fitz will be effective "RB" against an average/above average SEC Run D... unless he gets way more accurate & better pass pro...

That being said, if the pocket breaks down, he might make some big plays...

Chemistry. It's there. Watch out for Couch and Johnson

[TUSK]

Chemistry. It's there. Watch out for Couch and Johnson

Is Couch the LB from Auburn, AL????

don't think I know 'em....

[HSVDawg]

Those WR rankings and RB rankings are both comically wrong for different reasons. Steele is a clown. This shit has no bearing on the outlook for the season for anyone who actually pays attention. If our D improves to the "Grantham standard" of minimum Top 40-50 scoring D and overall D, we will win 8 or 9 games. If it doesn't, we will win 6 or 7. Simple as that. Everything else is just background noise.

[HSVDawg]

Well to be fair if you took the rushing element away from Fitz in the QB rating there is no way we would have the #4 QB group.

If you took the rushing element away from Hurts, there is no way he'd be a Top 13 QB. What's the point?

[msbulldog]

You have to go way back to '67, '68 to find Sammy Milner and David Smith receiving and 'All SEC QB' Tommy Pharr. Y'all young'ens have 'no clue' just HOW really bad MSU football was 'before Jackie & Dan. Anyone complaining about ANY winning season needs to go read about the '60's. It's real sobering

To emphasize how bad State, and its offense in particular, was in 1967, in LSU's 55-0 win over State, the Tigers' 55 points in that one game was more than State scored all season, 49.

1968 was a wide open, colorful season. The conference season started with the defending SEC Champion (Tennessee) tying the eventual SEC champion (Georgia) 17-17 on a two point conversion after time had expired, and the conference season ended with the AP first team All-SEC quarterback's team tying the following season's AP first team All-SEC quarterback's team 17-17** . Tommy Pharr of winless Mississippi State was named AP first team All-SEC in 1968. The Bulldogs posted an 0-8-2 mark. The Bullies failed to win a game, yet their quarterback was first team All-SEC. And, deservedly so. Pharr had a tremendous season in '68.


**Archie was a Soph; MSU LOST a home game to LaTech and QB Terry Bradshaw. MSU tied OM 17-17 and students partied like it was a Sugar Bowl win. It WAS that bad.

Lord, I remember Bisquit, I started MSU in 1973. But we still loved them boys.

[Jack Lambert]

What were his predictions for MSU last season?

He just copied and pasted. He's stupid ass hole and it is proven every year. The only thing he ever gets right is Bama and that's not hard to do. Who is the bigger fool, the fool or the person who listens to the fool?

[bluelightstar]

What were his predictions for MSU last season?

Called for us to win 9 -- https://www.philsteele.com/Pdf/2016_Top_40_Countdown/38_Miss_St.pdf

[maroonmania]

If you took the rushing element away from Hurts, there is no way he'd be a Top 13 QB. What's the point?

The post I replied to was making the argument that Fitz should be considered when rating our RB group. My point was that Fitz's running contributions in our offense are already a big part of what gives Fitz the QB rating he was given (same thing with Hurts). Would seem somewhat redundant to also consider him when rating our RB unit even though he in reality is probably our most important runner.

[Coach007]

Is Couch the LB from Auburn, AL????

don't think I know 'em....

Jamal Couch... WR 6'4 228.

[lamont]

Those WR rankings and RB rankings are both comically wrong for different reasons. Steele is a clown. This shit has no bearing on the outlook for the season for anyone who actually pays attention. If our D improves to the "Grantham standard" of minimum Top 40-50 scoring D and overall D, we will win 8 or 9 games. If it doesn't, we will win 6 or 7. Simple as that. Everything else is just background noise.

The offense cost us vs South Alabama and BYU- not the D last season. It also damn near cost us the bowl game. To act like our season depends on defensive improvement is flat out wrong

[HSVDawg]

The offense cost us vs South Alabama and BYU- not the D last season. It also damn near cost us the bowl game. To act like our season depends on defensive improvement is flat out wrong

The games you cherry picked above were early in the year before our OL gelled a little bit and before we inserted Aeris in a permanent role. The defense cost us late in the season against Kentucky, Arkansas, and made games against UMass and Samford much closer than they should have been. The difference you are ignoring is that the offense improved over the course of the season, whereas the defense seemed to get worse. In the 2nd to last game of the regular season, we played an entire 60 minutes of football with the defense not getting themselves off the field a single time. Never forget that. If the offense and defense both pick up from where they left off at the end of last season, the D will have much more improvement to make to get to a respectable level.

[lamont]

The games you cherry picked above were early in the year before our OL gelled a little bit and before we inserted Aeris in a permanent role. The defense cost us late in the season against Kentucky, Arkansas, and made games against UMass and Samford much closer than they should have been. The difference you are ignoring is that the offense improved over the course of the season, whereas the defense seemed to get worse. In the 2nd to last game of the regular season, we played an entire 60 minutes of football with the defense not getting themselves off the field a single time. Never forget that. If the offense and defense both pick up from where they left off at the end of last season, the D will have much more improvement to make to get to a respectable level.

Nobody is saying the D doesnt have to improve. Just dont act like it's our only problem. The offense cost us 2 games last year and damn near a 3rd. We struggled to score in the bowl game against a 6-6 team, and then our QB threw 4 picks in the Spring Game because our WR's cant get separation. We have some offensive problems heading into 2017.

[HSVDawg]

Nobody is saying the D doesnt have to improve. Just dont act like it's our only problem. The offense cost us 2 games last year and damn near a 3rd. We struggled to score in the bowl game against a 6-6 team, and then our QB threw 4 picks in the Spring Game because our WR's cant get separation. We have some offensive problems heading into 2017.

Well of course they both need to improve. But the offense already has improved from the time period you mentioned. The defense hasn't shown anything. Let's also not act like the defense had no role in the bowl game, USA game, or BYU game. It was the D that let Miami Ohio go right down the field on the final drive like we weren't even on the field and thank God their coach decided to play for the FG. We had numerous awful defensive breakdowns against BYU, particularly in OT. We also gave up some big play TD's against South Alabama, and committed an inexcusable offsides to extend their game winning drive for another play when we had them stopped. The D was deplorable pretty much from start to finish last year. The offense gradually got better as the season went along, with some intermediate set backs here and there. I stand by my statement that if we are a Top 50 D in both scoring and overall next season, we will win at least 8. The offense will be adequate.

[Bothrops]

We need a couple of PBS to get a lot of experience this year. The rest need to learn how to PB, so they can play in '19.

WR recruiting will always be an issue, there just aren't too many good ones, and just a handful of great ones available every year. There are athletes galore, and some of them can hack it, but most will not. It's a highly specialized skill position, and I hope we keep that in mind when recruiting.

[HSVDawg]

We need a couple of PBS to get a lot of experience this year. The rest need to learn how to PB, so they can play in '19.

WR recruiting will always be an issue, there just aren't too many good ones, and just a handful of great ones available every year. There are athletes galore, and some of them can hack it, but most will not. It's a highly specialized skill position, and I hope we keep that in mind when recruiting.

You are right about the WR's. One reason why I'm not freaking out about them this upcoming season is that our WR play was complete garbage last season too, yet we found a way to eventually put points on the board once our offense found its identity. We will get guys out there that can block for Fitz and company and Gray will be a deep threat. If Couch or someone else can work the middle of the field for us we will be serviceable. Need those guys to stay healthy though.

[lamont]

You are right about the WR's. One reason why I'm not freaking out about them this upcoming season is that our WR play was complete garbage last season too, yet we found a way to eventually put points on the board once our offense found its identity. We will get guys out there that can block for Fitz and company and Gray will be a deep threat. If Couch or someone else can work the middle of the field for us we will be serviceable. Need those guys to stay healthy though.

Alot of our offensive output was because we played Kentucky, A&M, UPig, and OM- the 9th, 10th, 8th, and 13th ranked defenses in the SEC.

UPig was 75th overall
Kentucky was 85th
A&M was 90th
Mississippi was 111th

That was what helped our offense the most

[HSVDawg]

Alot of our offensive output was because we played Kentucky, A&M, UPig, and OM- the 9th, 10th, 8th, and 13th ranked defenses in the SEC.

UPig was 75th overall
Kentucky was 85th
A&M was 90th
Mississippi was 111th

That was what helped our offense the most

Yeah, and we play all 4 of those teams again in 2017 and they will all likely be bad again on D this season as well. You play an 8 game SEC schedule and you are going to play some good defenses and bad ones. That is part of it. Can't penalize us for doing what we were supposed to do against those teams. We also struggled mightily to get anything going against a crappy South Alabama defense. So, again, we did improve as the season went along. You can't sit here and say those teams you mentioned all had worse defenses than South Alabama.

If you put a Grantham D and not a Sirmon D on the field for us last season, we beat UK and Ark for sure and probably don't choke against USA and BYU either. At minimum, we probably win 3 of those 4 to get to 8 wins last season.

ETA: I stand corrected on BYU's defense. They were pretty decent last year. But I still think a better defensive showing from us would have obviously helped us win that one. They were abysmal offensively and yet we still let them off the hook way too many times.

[lamont]

ETA: I stand corrected on BYU's defense. They were pretty decent last year. But I still think a better defensive showing from us would have obviously helped us win that one. They were abysmal offensively and yet we still let them off the hook way too many times.

We held BYU to 311 total yards and that includes double OT- that loss was in no way on the defense.

[IMissJack]

The offense cost us vs South Alabama and BYU- not the D last season. It also damn near cost us the bowl game. To act like our season depends on defensive improvement is flat out wrong

With a decent kicking game, we still win both of those games, but I get your point.

[Commercecomet24]

Not saying the offense was a world beater early in the season. However we did have a 20-0 lead in second half against South Alabama the defense couldn't hold. We also had the lead in the second half against byu and in OT and we couldn't get a stop, so there's that.

[HSVDawg]

Not saying the offense was a world beater early in the season. However we did have a 20-0 lead in second half against South Alabama the defense couldn't hold. We also had the lead in the second half against byu and in OT and we couldn't get a stop, so there's that.

And the D had USA stopped with a sack on 3rd and goal and had it nullified by a stupid offsides penalty where we were lined up in the neutral zone. On the goal line. With the game on the line in the 4th. We were so, so poorly coached on D last season.

[NCDawg]

Arkansas OL was awful last year, Austin Allen was sacked and ungodly amount. He was sacked 34 times for -256 yds.

He might have been sacked a lot, but he looked like Tom Brady against us.

[lamont]

Not saying the offense was a world beater early in the season. However we did have a 20-0 lead in second half against South Alabama the defense couldn't hold. We also had the lead in the second half against byu and in OT and we couldn't get a stop, so there's that.

We gave up 14 points in regulation to BYU- that's a winning defensive effort
We only scored 20 points vs USA. That's not a winning effort vs a nobody. Neither is 16 points in a bowl game

[Commercecomet24]

We gave up 14 points in regulation to BYU- that's a winning defensive effort
We only scored 20 points vs USA. That's not a winning effort vs a nobody. Neither is 16 points in a bowl game

The point being our defense couldn't hold leads. A lead is a lead no matter who you're playing. You get the stops on d you win. Period.

[Jack Lambert]

The point being our defense couldn't hold leads. A lead is a lead no matter who you're playing. You get the stops on d you win. Period.

S.Alabama went down the field with less then 4 minutes on the clock and scored to take the lead. Then our offense flew down the field, to what the five or ten yard line and my 5 year old niece could have done a better job kicking the field goal. It wasn't offense that cost the game it was defense and kicking game. How many points did our kicking game missed last year?

[HSVDawg]

We gave up 14 points in regulation to BYU- that's a winning defensive effort
We only scored 20 points vs USA. That's not a winning effort vs a nobody. Neither is 16 points in a bowl game

Do you think it is impossible for the D and the O to both suck simutaneously? They were both f-ing terrible against USA. 20 points against a Sun Belt team is not a winning effort. Giving up 21 points to a Sun Belt team when you are an SEC defense isn't a winning effort either. Both were awful, and neither was worse than the other. It was a team loss. You are arguing about whether a dirty diaper filled with Indian food smells worse than Big Foot's dick.