As great as cohen was..

[preachermatt83]

the reason we are so limited this year in talent lays at his feet for one huge reason... relying to heavily on crootin jucos.

[Forrest4Moore]

Wish we had recruited the JUCO that shoved against us tonight.

[Homedawg]

the reason we are so limited this year in talent lays at his feet for one huge reason... relying to heavily on crootin jucos.

You don't think that the 9 guys we have missing would have helped?

[msstate7]

You don't think that the 9 guys we have missing would have helped?

1 year out of Kruger and Lowe hurt too

[MarketingBully]

1 year out of Kruger and Lowe hurt too

Yep. Imagine having Kruger hitting behind Rooker. He easily would have had 14+ HR this year. He was great behind the plate as well.

[Choctaw Dawg]

If we had Cann last year i GUARANTEE Kruger would have been here this year since he was drafted 20th round

[msstate7]

If we had Cann last year i GUARANTEE Kruger would have been here this year since he was drafted 20th round

There's 395,000 reasons why I disagree

[Todd4State]

There's 395,000 reasons why I disagree

And two reasons why I disagree- Cole Freeman and Kramer Robertson.

[Todd4State]

the reason we are so limited this year in talent lays at his feet for one huge reason... relying to heavily on crootin jucos.

That and our pitching staff was wiped out by injuries.

[msstate7]

And two reasons why I disagree- Cole Freeman and Kramer Robertson.

We'll just disagree. Kruger is a So Cal guy who was drafted by the angels and given $395,000 to sign. He wouldn't have returned here if we hired joe Maddon

[BuckyIsAB****]

Dude we have 8 pitchers out for the year. Not making excuses we didnt play well but we've had our CF and 1B start games for us on the mound.

[Todd4State]

We'll just disagree. Kruger is a So Cal guy who was drafted by the angels and given $395,000 to sign. He wouldn't have returned here if we hired joe Maddon

Well, you're wrong. Kruger pretty much told everyone he was coming back until pretty much the last minute.

[msstate7]

Well, you're wrong. Kruger pretty much told everyone he was coming back until pretty much the last minute.

Lol ok... you know exactly what happens in hypothetical world. So who does Cann lose this year? Jake and gridley come back automatically right bc Cann has magical powers

[Intramural All-American]

Lol ok... you know exactly what happens in hypothetical world. So who does Cann lose this year? Jake and gridley come back automatically right bc Cann has magical powers

You are correct about Jack. He was coming back barring a huge number which it didn't look like he'd get. The angels whiffed on signing a few guys, so they were able to offer him s lot more money than 24th round guys get. He was 95% coming back until the last day.

Grid wants to go pro. It's going to be extremely hard to convince him to come back.

No clue on Mangum. Seems dumb for him to leave this year. Seems he could be convinced to stay, but I have no inside knowledge there.

[Choctaw Dawg]

You are correct about Jack. He was coming back barring a huge number which it didn't look like he'd get. The angels whiffed on signing a few guys, so they were able to offer him s lot more money than 24th round guys get. He was 95% coming back until the last day.

Grid wants to go pro. It's going to be extremely hard to convince him to come back.

No clue on Mangum. Seems dumb for him to leave this year. Seems he could be convinced to stay, but I have no inside knowledge there.

Mangum shouldn't leave and i doubt he will. There was a stat tonight that said hes been batting .238 since his hand injury.

[Skydawg1]

Grid wants to go pro. It's going to be extremely hard to convince him to come back.See ya Grid. King of the 2-out nobody-on base hit.

[Todd4State]

Lol ok... you know exactly what happens in hypothetical world. So who does Cann lose this year? Jake and gridley come back automatically right bc Cann has magical powers

I actually know what happens during the MLB draft and how the game goes. You see a dollar figure and don't think about any of the other factors involved- such as taxes, the value of getting a degree and transitioning into the working world immediately after pro ball instead of having to go back to school, playing for a championship and things like that.

I know how MSU and LSU fans are and the culture that both have. MSU has had a take the money and run culture- and we've rarely kept players because of that. LSU has a stay at LSU and win a championship and we can get you even higher in the draft attitude. Cann will change that for us. That comes from MLB scouts that I have talked to here and there and then the proof is in the pudding at LSU- Poche, Robertson, Deichman, and Freeman. Robertson is from Texas and we all know his Mom has connections to Baylor. He's not a dyed in the wool LSU fan from birth. When I hear the same thing from 3-4 MLB scouts you can rest assured that it's probably good info.

Both Gridley and Mangum would be foolish to leave- as was Kruger and Houston. Cann will give us a better chance of keeping them. He has the reputation of keeping guys for their senior year- and people in MLB know that as well. That in and of itself helps us because it will make them think long and hard or overpay for our juniors. That's good for our players too- because it means more money for them in terms of an offer. That helps with recruiting. Like Kruger- instead of getting 395K or whatever he got, it may go up to around 450K.

[Intramural All-American]

I actually know what happens during the MLB draft and how the game goes. You see a dollar figure and don't think about any of the other factors involved- such as taxes, the value of getting a degree and transitioning into the working world immediately after pro ball instead of having to go back to school, playing for a championship and things like that.

I know how MSU and LSU fans are and the culture that both have. MSU has had a take the money and run culture- and we've rarely kept players because of that. LSU has a stay at LSU and win a championship and we can get you even higher in the draft attitude. Cann will change that for us. That comes from MLB scouts that I have talked to here and there and then the proof is in the pudding at LSU- Poche, Robertson, Deichman, and Freeman. Robertson is from Texas and we all know his Mom has connections to Baylor. He's not a dyed in the wool LSU fan from birth. When I hear the same thing from 3-4 MLB scouts you can rest assured that it's probably good info.

Both Gridley and Mangum would be foolish to leave- as was Kruger and Houston. Cann will give us a better chance of keeping them. He has the reputation of keeping guys for their senior year- and people in MLB know that as well. That in and of itself helps us because it will make them think long and hard or overpay for our juniors. That's good for our players too- because it means more money for them in terms of an offer. That helps with recruiting. Like Kruger- instead of getting 395K or whatever he got, it may go up to around 450K.

Wait, how in the world was Kruger foolish? I don't know what Houston was offered, so I can't speak for him, but there is almost no chance of Jack getting offered more money after his senior year than what he was offered last year. You are taking a very selfish view here.

[msstate7]

Wait, how in the world was Kruger foolish? I don't know what Houston was offered, so I can't speak for him, but there is almost no chance of Jack getting offered more money after his senior year than what he was offered last year. You are taking a very selfish view here.

Exactly.

Let's keep an eye on freeman and Robertson at lsu. They cost themselves money... I'm almost certain

[Intramural All-American]

You act like the LSU guys were high draft picks and chose to turn down a lot of money to return. Poche fell in the draft to the 14th round and didn't get offered the money he wanted. Freeman was a 16th, deichmann a 26th, and Robertson a 32nd. Your view is completely skewed here. As I said, Jack had every intention of coming back until he was offered too 10 money on the last day.

Houston signed for $190k which is $100k over his slotted value. The guy drafted one round ahead of him signed for 25k because he was a senior and had no leverage. You are just flat wrong on this.

[Bucky Dog]

1 year out of Kruger and Lowe hurt too

This is what I have said all year. These two guys alone, plus having even 2 more pitchers, means all the difference in the world.

[Bucky Dog]

Wait, how in the world was Kruger foolish? I don't know what Houston was offered, so I can't speak for him, but there is almost no chance of Jack getting offered more money after his senior year than what he was offered last year. You are taking a very selfish view here.

Ask Brent Rooker!!!

[msstate7]

Ask Brent Rooker!!!

Totally different situation. If rooker came back this year, he'd be foolish

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Ask Brent Rooker!!!
I'm not jumping back into this debate, but Rooker's situation is totally different. He got 2 years of being draft eligible with leverage because he redshirted his freshmen year.

Mangum will also have 2 years of draft eligibility with leverage due to his age.

[Todd4State]

Wait, how in the world was Kruger foolish? I don't know what Houston was offered, so I can't speak for him, but there is almost no chance of Jack getting offered more money after his senior year than what he was offered last year. You are taking a very selfish view here.

He's foolish because he's hitting .223 in A ball right now and could have benefitted from playing for Cann for a year. Ultimately it's not about how big your signing bonus is. It's what gives you the best chance to make it in MLB- because that's where you make the life changing money nowadays. After taxes get taken out- and baseball players have to file taxes in every state that they play in- he's going to get around 300K. If he stays in the minors for six years he basically has 50-60K to live on. And he lives in California?

[Todd4State]

You act like the LSU guys were high draft picks and chose to turn down a lot of money to return. Poche fell in the draft to the 14th round and didn't get offered the money he wanted. Freeman was a 16th, deichmann a 26th, and Robertson a 32nd. Your view is completely skewed here. As I said, Jack had every intention of coming back until he was offered too 10 money on the last day.

Houston signed for $190k which is $100k over his slotted value. The guy drafted one round ahead of him signed for 25k because he was a senior and had no leverage. You are just flat wrong on this.

No I'm not. I'm acting like we're losing too many of our juniors. Jake Fraley was drafted in the first round from LSU last year and one of their commits- Riley Pint was also drafted in the first round. They got neither back- and I don't expect Cann to keep players that high. I'm talking about Austin Sexton, Houston, Kruger, and etc. that we lost in that area of the draft.

Why do our guys always get offered more money in the same area of the draft than LSU's? Partly because of the perception that they are more easily signable. That's a problem for us because it makes it harder to keep player and that's something that needs to be corrected. Other teams are able to do this at a higher rate than we do and I bet there are zero LSU fans calling each other selfish and short sighted.

If Cann will help with that- it will make us a better program because basically losing all of our juniors every year is a huge disadvantage for us.

[Todd4State]

Exactly.

Let's keep an eye on freeman and Robertson at lsu. They cost themselves money... I'm almost certain

Initially yes- but if they make it to MLB no. The MLB minimum this year is 535K which will more than offset their signing bonus losses. And their degrees will offset some of the money that they would have lost sitting out a year to get them after they retire from pro ball making it even loss of a loss.

[msstate7]

Initially yes- but if they make it to MLB no. The MLB minimum this year is 535K which will more than offset their signing bonus losses. And their degrees will offset some of the money that they would have lost sitting out a year to get them after they retire from pro ball making it even loss of a loss.

If they make MLB, I'll never criticize them again. I don't think either has a good chance

[Todd4State]

If they make MLB, I'll never criticize them again. I don't think either has a good chance

I think they have a decent chance of getting a cup of coffee. I don't think they'll be stars. And yes, I think coming back has helped them to get better to maximize that chance of making it.

If they don't make it, they use their degrees and in Louisiana they will easily make up for any losses that they incurred by staying because they will be able to get cushy jobs there.

[Intramural All-American]

He's foolish because he's hitting .223 in A ball right now and could have benefitted from playing for Cann for a year. Ultimately it's not about how big your signing bonus is. It's what gives you the best chance to make it in MLB- because that's where you make the life changing money nowadays. After taxes get taken out- and baseball players have to file taxes in every state that they play in- he's going to get around 300K. If he stays in the minors for six years he basically has 50-60K to live on. And he lives in California?

He's foolish because he's not playing for a coach that no one knew was going to be our coach until 4 months after he signed? That makes perfect sense. You do realize you can still get a degree after you quit playing college baseball right? In fact, a lot of players put that in the contract when they sign that the team will pay for their education. The difference in $350k and 25k, is simple math (325k). So assuming he doesn't make the MLB, the chances of him making it up had he come back for his senior year really doesn't change much. So that's just him losing 325 thousand dollars. You're foolish for thinking he is foolish.

[Todd4State]

He's foolish because he's not playing for a coach that no one knew was going to be our coach until 4 months after he signed? That makes perfect sense. You do realize you can still get a degree after you quit playing college baseball right? In fact, a lot of players put that in the contract when they sign that the team will pay for their education. The difference in $350k and 25k, is simple math (325k). So assuming he doesn't make the MLB, the chances of him making it up had he come back for his senior year really doesn't change much. So that's just him losing 325 thousand dollars. You're foolish for thinking he is foolish.

I think Cohen would have improved him as well. Cann being the coach would have just been even more fortunate for him.

You are aware that in today’s American society it’s difficult to get a high paying job without a college degree correct? Even if MLB pays for your degree, those players are going to have to sit out at least an entire year getting their degree which costs them in living expenses that MLB usually will not pay for. You get a degree and depending on what your degree is in you can come right out and make say 50K- or about a years worth of the bonus based on a six year minor league career if the bonus 300K.

You do pay taxes don’t you? So do these baseball players. That cuts into it as well. It’s a bonus. It’s a one time lump sum that they have to use to get through their time in the minor leagues.

Your problem is you are seeing this as “what if you don’t make it”- which is a mentality that will doom you to failure in pro baseball. Our goal should be to do whatever gives them the best chance to get to MLB. Sometimes in baseball that means staying your senior year and losing money on the front end to make millions and to achieve what the player’s ultimate dream is on the back end. Which is why it’s laughable that you called me selfish earlier. Sometimes what is best for both is best for all. They make it to MLB- they get 525K on the very low end no matter when they sign. They don’t make it, they’re left with whatever is left of their bonus and hopefully it’s enough to get them through that last year of college and then they are either left at exactly the same spot as the rest of their college classmates or worse- in debt.

And again- I’m talking about guys beyond round 12. If you are drafted from rounds 1-12 your odds of making it are better and the bonus will probably be higher if you are a junior so then rolling the dice there makes more sense. The way the draft is set up the money starts to become a wash really after round 10 in most cases. 300K and above is really high for anyone drafted after round 12 so most guys are getting way less than that- which again obviously makes it even more likely and sensible to come back to school. Using Houston as an example- 190K minus roughly 40K in taxes and let’s say he pitches four years in the minors and his living expenses are 30K- then he has spent 120K of the 150K after taxes and doesn’t have a degree so he has to spend a year getting that which would leave him at zero.

[Intramural All-American]

I think Cohen would have improved him as well. Cann being the coach would have just been even more fortunate for him.

You are aware that in today’s American society it’s difficult to get a high paying job without a college degree correct? Even if MLB pays for your degree, those players are going to have to sit out at least an entire year getting their degree which costs them in living expenses that MLB usually will not pay for. You get a degree and depending on what your degree is in you can come right out and make say 50K- or about a years worth of the bonus based on a six year minor league career if the bonus 300K.

You do pay taxes don’t you? So do these baseball players. That cuts into it as well. It’s a bonus. It’s a one time lump sum that they have to use to get through their time in the minor leagues.

Your problem is you are seeing this as “what if you don’t make it”- which is a mentality that will doom you to failure in pro baseball. Our goal should be to do whatever gives them the best chance to get to MLB. Sometimes in baseball that means staying your senior year and losing money on the front end to make millions and to achieve what the player’s ultimate dream is on the back end. Which is why it’s laughable that you called me selfish earlier. Sometimes what is best for both is best for all. They make it to MLB- they get 525K on the very low end no matter when they sign. They don’t make it, they’re left with whatever is left of their bonus and hopefully it’s enough to get them through that last year of college and then they are either left at exactly the same spot as the rest of their college classmates or worse- in debt.

And again- I’m talking about guys beyond round 12. If you are drafted from rounds 1-12 your odds of making it are better and the bonus will probably be higher if you are a junior so then rolling the dice there makes more sense. The way the draft is set up the money starts to become a wash really after round 10 in most cases. 300K and above is really high for anyone drafted after round 12 so most guys are getting way less than that- which again obviously makes it even more likely and sensible to come back to school. Using Houston as an example- 190K minus roughly 40K in taxes and let’s say he pitches four years in the minors and his living expenses are 30K- then he has spent 120K of the 150K after taxes and doesn’t have a degree so he has to spend a year getting that which would leave him at zero.

Man, you are not as smart as you think you are when it comes to the stuff. But when you start writing novels, it's not even worth trying to argue.

A) you just contradicted yourself on Houston
B) online classes are a thing
C) Kruger played 2 years of D1 baseball, 1 more is not going to drastically change him from a guy who doesn't make it, to a guy who does.
D) you telling a guy he made a mistake by taking $300k more one year sooner because he didn't come back to your schools baseball team seems selfish to me.

[Todd4State]

Man, you are not as smart as you think you are when it comes to the stuff. But when you start writing novels, it's not even worth trying to argue.

A) you just contradicted yourself on Houston
B) online classes are a thing
C) Kruger played 2 years of D1 baseball, 1 more is not going to drastically change him from a guy who doesn't make it, to a guy who does.
D) you telling a guy he made a mistake by taking $300k more one year sooner because he didn't come back to your schools baseball team seems selfish to me.

I'm smarter than you when it comes to it. I've only had two family members drafted by MLB before.

A) No I didn't. The goal is to get to MLB and do what gives you the best chance to get there and make millions long term. Not to break even and not make it to MLB. You apparently don't understand that.
B) When these players in the minors it's very hard to take online classes because they play ball from Feb to August and then some of them go overseas or play summer league baseball. When they are in the minors there is sometimes 4-5 players in an apartment crammed together. Not to mention minor league road trips and things like and playing pretty much everyday. They don't have time to take online classes and if they do take them it's going to be maybe one class at a time which STILL leaves them with no degree and time lost without a salary.
C) One more year would have given him time to improve and probably would have made him a top 10 round pick and would have given him a head start on some of his teammates. I don't think Kendall Graveman is regretting coming back to school right now. He got less than Kruger did out of the draft- but he's also likely to make much, much more over the course of his career.
D) Telling a guy to come back to school and improve so that he has a better chance of making it to MLB and make more money in the long term is "selfish"? Just because it also so happens to help "my" team out? Am I selfish for saying that guys drafted above round 12 that they should go to MLB? Are the MLB scouts that tell some of these players to go back to school and have no affiliation with MSU selfish as well? Again- the goal isn't to break even. It's to maximize your chances of getting to MLB and making millions long term. Not to be the town Kenny Powers.

[Maroons]

I think they have a decent chance of getting a cup of coffee. I don't think they'll be stars. And yes, I think coming back has helped them to get better to maximize that chance of making it.

If they don't make it, they use their degrees and in Louisiana they will easily make up for any losses that they incurred by staying because they will be able to get cushy jobs there.

Robertson won't sniff the Show. I'll be shocked if he's successful at AA.

[Intramural All-American]

The fact that you think playing college baseball for a year gives you better experience than playing professional ball for a year tells me all I need to know about your "knowledge". What you don't seem to grasp, is it doesn't matter what round you go in. Jack went 24th due to low sign-ability. However they offered him that much money because they felt like he was worth it. They didn't offer him that much because they were just trying to keep him from going back to college. Like I said, what round you were picked in means nothing. What matters is how much money they invest in you. They will do what they can to help Jack along. So Jack being drafted in the top 10 rounds this year accomplishes nothing, because he was valued and paid like a 5th round pick last year.

Again, you aren't as smart as you think you are. And I guarantee you, jack didn't just make a rash decision. A lot of thought went into it. For you to think you know his situation better than him and his family is stupid. You really just don't know what you are talking about, and you are trying to force something to fit your opinion when you really don't know circumstances at all.

[Todd4State]

The fact that you think playing college baseball for a year gives you better experience than playing professional ball for a year tells me all I need to know about your "knowledge". What you don't seem to grasp, is it doesn't matter what round you go in. Jack went 24th due to low sign-ability. However they offered him that much money because they felt like he was worth it. They didn't offer him that much because they were just trying to keep him from going back to college. Like I said, what round you were picked in means nothing. What matters is how much money they invest in you. They will do what they can to help Jack along. So Jack being drafted in the top 10 rounds this year accomplishes nothing, because he was valued and paid like a 5th round pick last year.

Again, you aren't as smart as you think you are. And I guarantee you, jack didn't just make a rash decision. A lot of thought went into it. For you to think you know his situation better than him and his family is stupid. You really just don't know what you are talking about, and you are trying to force something to fit your opinion when you really don't know circumstances at all.

And you know his circumstances better? Bullshit. They weren't bad enough for him to be willing to return until the last minute otherwise he would have taken their first offer. Or for his Dad to visit Starkville several times while he played at MSU. And just because a lot of thought was put into it doesn't mean it was a good decision. I'm sure a lot of thought went into a lot of disasters in world history too.

What you don't seem to grasp is this isn't MLB baseball draft 1997 anymore where you just take any money that is thrown at you. I'm sure you've probably already cashed out your 401K before 65 too- because that's the kind of person you sound like. Everything that you've posted tells me that you see the dollar figure and aren't taking anything else into account. Or more likely you don't want to admit that your opinion is actually the one that is off base.

And while I've never played minor league baseball I've been around it enough to see what it's like and what they go through. College baseball is a totally different environment and animal than minor league baseball. Once you're in minor league ball- you're a pro and they expect you to take a lot more responsibility for your career. And if you don't, they're just going to assume you don't give a shit and they're not either. That's the difference. I've seen what they go through on a day to day basis. And yeah- the money they invest in you matters- and in the world of baseball they didn't invest that much in Kruger. Ultimately they valued him as a 19th round pick and just threw a bunch of money at him as a Hail Mary and it worked in this case. Just because a team overpays for a player it doesn't mean that was his true value. If you get drafted in the 10th round or higher- go ahead and go pro.

My opinion fits because it's the truth. Your opinion is the short sighted 1997 MLB draft one which ironically is the one that isn't what's best for the player in the long run. I've told you what happens a lot of times in a logical mathematical way and the only thing you can come up with is "you aren't as smart as you think you are". Apparently I'm a LOT smarter than you because there's a reason why MLB came up with the slotting system- it's because the old one wasn't working for them and they were wasting money on players like Kruger who should have gone back to college or high school kids that should have gone to college. Now why on Earth would MLB come up with a system that's more college friendly? And the fact that you are using Kruger who was offered money on the high end of the spectrum skews your opinion even more because most guys that are drafted where he was don't get that kind of money.

I just hope you're not a Financial Advisor or win the Lottery anytime soon because you will without a doubt blow the money within a year.

[msstate7]

Last night I saw that Long Beach st led all colleges with 10 players on MLB rosters opening day. There's 30 teams with 25 players, which is 750 players... no college had more than 10! That tells me your chances of making the show from college pretty much suck. It's hard for me to say a kid made a bad decision taking $395,000

[Homedawg]

Ask Brent Rooker!!!

He had an extra year of bargaining power and was offered no money. This isn't a comparison. He had to come back

[Homedawg]

I think they have a decent chance of getting a cup of coffee. I don't think they'll be stars. And yes, I think coming back has helped them to get better to maximize that chance of making it.

If they don't make it, they use their degrees and in Louisiana they will easily make up for any losses that they incurred by staying because they will be able to get cushy jobs there.

If Robertson ever steps on a major league field as a player I'll never ever post here EVER again. Ever!!!

[Todd4State]

Last night I saw that Long Beach st led all colleges with 10 players on MLB rosters opening day. There's 30 teams with 25 players, which is 750 players... no college had more than 10! That tells me your chances of making the show from college pretty much suck. It's hard for me to say a kid made a bad decision taking $395,000

That's even more reason to me to make sure you have a degree to fall back on.

[msstate7]

That's even more reason to me to make sure you have a degree to fall back on.

Kruger is listed as a dh and his ops is .604 in A ball. Yeah, he probably should set back enough money to finish his degree

[HSVDawg]

Last night I saw that Long Beach st led all colleges with 10 players on MLB rosters opening day. There's 30 teams with 25 players, which is 750 players... no college had more than 10! That tells me your chances of making the show from college pretty much suck. It's hard for me to say a kid made a bad decision taking $395,000

Agreed. Your chances of making MLB always suck, regardless of whether its from college, high school, 1st round draft pick, 50th round draft pick, or any other subset of players. The ridiculous notion that "you won't ever make it" if you start thinking about what's best for your financial future and treating it separately from your desired path to MLB is so stupid. If that was truly the case, no one would ever go pro out of high school because data has consistently proven that guys who go to college make it at a much higher clip than HS draftees, regardless of round. There is always a number that is either big enough or small enough to change your decision from what you originally envisioned for yourself. Acting like the money diesn't matter is crazy. And $395,000 is a shit load of money.

[HSVDawg]

Why do our guys always get offered more money in the same area of the draft than LSU's? Partly because of the perception that they are more easily signable. That's a problem for us because it makes it harder to keep player and that's something that needs to be corrected. Other teams are able to do this at a higher rate than we do and I bet there are zero LSU fans calling each other selfish and short sighted.

I don't get this reasoning at all. Our players are viewed as more willing to leave, so teams perceive that and decide that means they should offer those guys MORE money than the going rate? That is the complete inverse of what would happen in any business negotiation. "Hey, this guy we already drafted really wants to play pro ball and has zero interest in going back to college, add a few more zeros to the check!" That literally never happens. Guys that are "more signable" get drafted higher, but they get lowballed like a mofo on contract offers to an extent that is proportional to their perceived signability. Nobody gets more money for being more willing to leave.

[Intramural All-American]

I don't get this reasoning at all. Our players are viewed as more willing to leave, so teams perceive that and decide that means they should offer those guys MORE money than the going rate? That is the complete inverse of what would happen in any business negotiation. "Hey, this guy we already drafted really wants to play pro ball and has zero interest in going back to college, add a few more zeros to the check!" That literally never happens. Guys that are "more signable" get drafted higher, but they get lowballed like a mofo on contract offers to an extent that is proportional to their perceived signability. Nobody gets more money for being more willing to leave.

Todd has no clue what he's talking about. He's basically trying to convince everyone that grass is blue. One year of college is about 15k. 300k is a lot more than 15k, so his angle doesn't make since there. Either have a degree with 25k bonus, or don't with a 300k bonus but only needing a few hours to get that degree. That's a no brainer. This is another example of Todd being a self-proclaimed baseball "expert", and he is just wrong.

And Todd, I know Jack personally, so yes, I know a whole heck of a lot more about the situation than you do.

[Todd4State]

I don't get this reasoning at all. Our players are viewed as more willing to leave, so teams perceive that and decide that means they should offer those guys MORE money than the going rate? That is the complete inverse of what would happen in any business negotiation. "Hey, this guy we already drafted really wants to play pro ball and has zero interest in going back to college, add a few more zeros to the check!" That literally never happens. Guys that are "more signable" get drafted higher, but they get lowballed like a mofo on contract offers to an extent that is proportional to their perceived signability. Nobody gets more money for being more willing to leave.

Robertson at LSU and Freeman were offered more than Houston and they both came back to LSU. Kruger is an outlier on the high end of his spectrum. And you're wrong- teams do add money because it's a negotiation on both sides. You really don't think guys try to get the most money they can?

[Todd4State]

Todd has no clue what he's talking about. He's basically trying to convince everyone that grass is blue. One year of college is about 15k. 300k is a lot more than 15k, so his angle doesn't make since there. Either have a degree with 25k bonus, or don't with a 300k bonus but only needing a few hours to get that degree. That's a no brainer. This is another example of Todd being a self-proclaimed baseball "expert", and he is just wrong.

And Todd, I know Jack personally, so yes, I know a whole heck of a lot more about the situation than you do.

So these guys are in college while they're playing baseball and losing money?

Link where I called myself a self-proclaimed baseball expert? People like you are the only ones calling me that. Not sure what that makes me.

And since you know the Kruger's so well- ask Jack how he's doing five years from now.

[Intramural All-American]

So these guys are in college while they're playing baseball and losing money?

Link where I called myself a self-proclaimed baseball expert? People like you are the only ones calling me that. Not sure what that makes me.

And since you know the Kruger's so well- ask Jack how he's doing five years from now.

He will be doing fine. His ultimate goal is to do overseas missions, and he's using baseball as a platform to spread the gospel, just as he did in college.

[Choctaw Dawg]

He will be doing fine. His ultimate goal is to do overseas missions, and he's using baseball as a platform to spread the gospel, just as he did in college.

Great to hear that about Kruger, he always seemed like a genuinely great person to meet.

[HSVDawg]

Robertson at LSU and Freeman were offered more than Houston and they both came back to LSU. Kruger is an outlier on the high end of his spectrum. And you're wrong- teams do add money because it's a negotiation on both sides. You really don't think guys try to get the most money they can?

Dude, you are talking in circles. Go back and read your original post. You stated LSU players get offered less than our players at the same point in the draft because our guys are perceived to be more signable (a ridiculous assertion that is the total opposite of what actually happens). Then you come back with this post stating that its actually LSU players getting offered more money than our guys at the same point of the draft. You are arguing with yourself at this point. It's like the twilight zone.

[MarketingBully]

The biggest key is to get kids out of high school that want to come to school instead of 50/50 guys. Then once you get them here you actually get three years out of them instead of one good year. If Cann does that we will be in great shape moving forward.

[Todd4State]

Dude, you are talking in circles. Go back and read your original post. You stated LSU players get offered less than our players at the same point in the draft because our guys are perceived to be more signable (a ridiculous assertion that is the total opposite of what actually happens). Then you come back with this post stating that its actually LSU players getting offered more money than our guys at the same point of the draft. You are arguing with yourself at this point. It's like the twilight zone.

I never said it was always that way in every situation. Kruger was offered more than Robertson and Freeman and therefore they were offered less. Robertson and Freeman were offered more than Houston. We've been burned on both ends of the wick. My point is when comparing Kruger to Robertson/Freeman if Robertson and Freeman played at MSU I would not be surprised at all if they would have gotten higher offers like Kruger did but they didn't because they play at LSU. And if Kruger played at LSU I wouldn't be surprised if his offer would have been lower because he played at LSU. I also wouldn't have been surprised if Houston's offer would have been lower had he played at LSU too.

It's all relative but certain teams such as LSU and Vanderbilt have a reputation for having players that are more difficult to sign. And that is a fact.

[Todd4State]

The biggest key is to get kids out of high school that want to come to school instead of 50/50 guys. Then once you get them here you actually get three years out of them instead of one good year. If Cann does that we will be in great shape moving forward.

I agree with you on this. I think Cann will do a better job of evaluating that and I think he will take a better approach than Cohen did in that regard. I think he will also in addition to those types of players will do a better job of finding guys that are more likely to stay for four years mixed in there as well. Some players want the money. Some like Kramer Robertson- want to win a championship and that motivates them more than a few thousand bucks. We have to do a better job of finding guys with Robertson's attitude because having entire junior classes getting wiped out is not good for us and it holds us back from winning championships.

[MarketingBully]

I agree with you on this. I think Cann will do a better job of evaluating that and I think he will take a better approach than Cohen did in that regard. I think he will also in addition to those types of players will do a better job of finding guys that are more likely to stay for four years mixed in there as well. Some players want the money. Some like Kramer Robertson- want to win a championship and that motivates them more than a few thousand bucks. We have to do a better job of finding guys with Robertson's attitude because having entire junior classes getting wiped out is not good for us and it holds us back from winning championships.

Agreed.

[Todd4State]

Agreed.

One thing I would like to see going forward as far as college baseball- and I'll be interested to see if it happens over the next ten years or so- is allowing guys that redshirt to be eligible to play without losing any eligibility. You look at a guy like Rooker- he was able to get his degree, play four years and develop, and he still has leverage. I think the new rule with football where guys can play three or maybe four games without losing their redshirt I think will trickle down to the other sports and maybe eventually it will become five years to play five.

[HSVDawg]

I never said it was always that way in every situation. Kruger was offered more than Robertson and Freeman and therefore they were offered less. Robertson and Freeman were offered more than Houston. We've been burned on both ends of the wick. My point is when comparing Kruger to Robertson/Freeman if Robertson and Freeman played at MSU I would not be surprised at all if they would have gotten higher offers like Kruger did but they didn't because they play at LSU. And if Kruger played at LSU I wouldn't be surprised if his offer would have been lower because he played at LSU. I also wouldn't have been surprised if Houston's offer would have been lower had he played at LSU too.

It's all relative but certain teams such as LSU and Vanderbilt have a reputation for having players that are more difficult to sign. And that is a fact.

You're still missing the whole point. If an underclassmen or high school player is considered more difficult to sign than a comparable player that was not drafted, that player is going to get a HIGHER eventual offer than said comparable player because it takes more to sign them. Conversely, if a guy is considered leaning to go pro, his eventual offer will be much LESS than a comparable player who is neutral or leaning towards staying in school. This isn't rocket science, just basic business sense. Just like if you are buying a house and you find out the seller is underwater on his mortgage, you aren't going to up your offer because that would be incredibly stupid. If anything, you lower what you would have offered even further. I'd like to hear a detailed explanation from you as to why a "difficult to sign" player would ever get a lower offer than a guy with theoretically identical talent who is considered easy to sign. Again, it literally never happens with underclassmen or high school kids.

[Todd4State]

You're still missing the whole point. If an underclassmen or high school player is considered more difficult to sign than a comparable player that was not drafted, that player is going to get a HIGHER eventual offer than said comparable player because it takes more to sign them. Conversely, if a guy is considered leaning to go pro, his eventual offer will be much LESS than a comparable player who is neutral or leaning towards staying in school. This isn't rocket science, just basic business sense. Just like if you are buying a house and you find out the seller is underwater on his mortgage, you aren't going to up your offer because that would be incredibly stupid. If anything, you lower what you would have offered even further. I'd like to hear a detailed explanation from you as to why a "difficult to sign" player would ever get a lower offer than a guy with theoretically identical talent who is considered easy to sign. Again, it literally never happens with underclassmen or high school kids.

First of all this isn't buying a house- and it's not buying anything really. Totally different.

Some college teams are better at keeping players than others. Again that's going over your head for some reason. Also keep in mind that we're talking rounds 12 and beyond where the slots are basically the minimum and every player has essentially the same slot value. Baseball teams invest a LOT of resources in scouting and time and etc. and if it's more cost efficient to not sign a difficult to sign player they'll go ahead and sign the more signable guy because as the slot value goes that's a comparable talent. At the same time every player has a degree of signability. Just because you are difficult to sign does not mean that you don't have a number- and scouts as part of their job is to figure out what that number is so that in the event that they have some left over money from their draft pool- they know which player to target. You also have to remember that they have a deadline in July to meet- and if they don't sign the player by then they have wasted some of their pool money.

Basically it comes down to utilizing resources and what the player's price is more than anything. If a team knows that players from LSU are in general more difficult to sign than MSU players- they will focus their resources on trying to get the MSU player. And again I'm talking rounds 12 and beyond- so LSU player round 12 and beyond and MSU player round 12 and beyond.

And it does happen to players in the draft all the time and every year. That's how and why a lot of high school players end up in college in the first place.