Still don't understand how Cohen could

[dawgoneyall]

hire an untested Asst. coach when he could have brought in a proven winner.

[shoeless joe]

Despite what some folks spewed for several years Cohen is an elite baseball mind. Also, don't underestimate the importance of Gary Henderson.

[dawgoneyall]

Despite what some folks spewed for several years Cohen is an elite baseball mind. Also, don't underestimate the importance of Gary Henderson.

Never understood the Cohen hate.

And he will be eventually the best AD we have had.

Without question he is the smartest...although, that isn't always the most important part of the job.

[msbulldog]

Never understood the Cohen hate.

And he will be eventually the best AD we have had.

Without question he is the smartest...although, that isn't always the most important part of the job.


Please explain that statement?

[dawgoneyall]

[/B]

Please explain that statement?

Einstein would have made a turrible AD.

[basedog]

Can't recall anyone having more passion for Msu than Cohen. I also thought it was a great hire, him sitting in for other coaches being interviewed was a smart move by whomever suggested him being involved.

[Todd4State]

Never understood the Cohen hate.

And he will be eventually the best AD we have had.

Without question he is the smartest...although, that isn't always the most important part of the job.

1. He wasn't Ron Polk

2. He wasn't always conventional.

And as you know I always liked him and thought he was a good coach. He was without question the coach we needed to rebuild our program and get our attitude right in baseball- and he did and took us further than any other coach at MSU did in baseball.

[Todd4State]

Can't recall anyone having more passion for Msu than Cohen. I also thought it was a great hire, him sitting in for other coaches being interviewed was a smart move by whomever suggested him being involved.

If he has a weakness as a coach it's that he is too passionate about MSU and I think he would overdo things sometimes and push our guys too hard sometimes to try to fix things and meet the standard that we all have for MSU baseball.

[msbulldog]

1. He wasn't Ron Polk

2. He wasn't always conventional.

And as you know I always liked him and thought he was a good coach. He was without question the coach we needed to rebuild our program and get our attitude right in baseball- and he did and took us further than any other coach at MSU did in baseball.

BOOM! tell it.

[msbulldog]

Einstein would have made a turrible AD.

But I bet he would have gotten a bunch of research grants.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

If Cohen didn't get his guy he could have easily made Henderson the interm head coach and had a whole year to get someone, and everyone here would have considered it a savvy move. That tells me Cann was one of, if not the top choice.

[dawgoneyall]

But I bet he would have gotten a bunch of research grants.

:cool:

[lamont]

If Cohen didn't get his guy he could have easily made Henderson the interm head coach and had a whole year to get someone, and everyone here would have considered it a savvy move. That tells me Cann was one of, if not the top choice.

We gave Corbin a call- he said no. Cann was the next choice. Absolutely a great call by the AD.

[Todd4State]

We gave Corbin a call- he said no. Cann was the next choice. Absolutely a great call by the AD.

I like Cann better than Corbin. Actually give me Derek Johnson their old pitching coach to go along with Cann over Corbin.

[msbulldog]

We gave Corbin a call- he said no. Cann was the next choice. Absolutely a great call by the AD.

C'mon Random, I call BS.

[lamont]

1. He wasn't Ron Polk

2. He bunted in the 1st inning.

Glad on #1....#2 was ridiculous

[lamont]

C'mon Random, I call BS.

Call BS all you want- thats what happened

[shannondawg]

And here we go!!!!!

[Todd4State]

Glad on #1....#2 was ridiculous

Quite honestly it's odd to jump off of a coach's side for one move in one game like that. Especially after he won the SEC and took us to the CWS finals.

[Todd4State]

C'mon Random, I call BS.

What RP said was the rumor I heard as well. We also interviewed Corbin to replace Polk II as well before that.

[DownwardDawg]

And here we go!!!!!

He can't help it. Lol

[lamont]

Quite honestly it's odd to jump off of a coach's side for one move in one game like that. Especially after he won the SEC and took us to the CWS finals.

If it had only been one game- it wouldnt have been a big deal. It was the constant giving away of outs in the 1st 3 innings of games.

Also- will never understand why Cody didnt platoon with Humphries last year. Hump couldnt hit good RHP's but we kept running him out there. Hump must have hit .450 vs LHP's last year- but K after K vs RHP's. Cody has been nothing but a .300 hitter for us except last year when he didnt get consistent AB's. A platoon there and it makes us a better team. Plus Hump could have pitched more

[dawgoneyall]

C'mon Random, I call BS.

From some unnamed people he was given a call/look see. But I think cann was his personal 1st choice but would have taken corbin if he had been interested. ( And I heard he was somewhat interested...never understood that)

[basedog]

Whatever, Cann is a great hire but so was Henderson.

Seems to be a great combo, both are known as good recruiters.

[HSVDawg]

If it had only been one game- it wouldnt have been a big deal. It was the constant giving away of outs in the 1st 3 innings of games.

Also- will never understand why Cody didnt platoon with Humphries last year. Hump couldnt hit good RHP's but we kept running him out there. Hump must have hit .450 vs LHP's last year- but K after K vs RHP's. Cody has been nothing but a .300 hitter for us except last year when he didnt get consistent AB's. A platoon there and it makes us a better team. Plus Hump could have pitched more

No coach in the history of sports has ever not driven fans of his team insane with particular idiosyncrasies or tendencies that sometimes flew in the face of reason. Not even Saban or John Wooden are immune from that. Fans are never 100% satisfied and that is the nature of the beast. But if Cohen bunting in the 1st inning and not playing a particular player in certain situations last year are the first things on your mind when you reflect on his tenure, then you are a miserable bastard. And quite frankly, I feel sorry for you because you'll never find happiness as an MSU fan.

[basedog]

And here we go!!!!!

Careful there grandpa****

[dawgoneyall]

Whatever, Cann is a great hire but so was Henderson.

Seems to be a great combo, both are known as good recruiters.

Henderson may be the best "fell in a barrel of shi* and came out smelling like a rose" for MSU ever.

[Todd4State]

No coach in the history of sports has ever not driven fans of his team insane with particular idiosyncrasies or tendencies that sometimes flew in the face of reason. Not even Saban or John Wooden are immune from that. Fans are never 100% satisfied and that is the nature of the beast. But if Cohen bunting in the 1st inning and not playing a particular player in certain situations last year are the first things on your mind when you reflect on his tenure, then you are a miserable bastard. And quite frankly, I feel sorry for you because you'll never find happiness as an MSU fan.

If you look at the stats we're about on pace to bunt just as much with Cann as we did with Cohen. We bunted 35 times last year and this year we have 28 with two weeks plus at least two weeks of postseason ball to go. The difference is we don't have a poster going full blast about how dumb bunting is every time we bunt in a sad attempt to try to be the best baseball poster on the planet.

[Noxdog]

If you look at the stats we're about on pace to bunt just as much with Cann as we did with Cohen. We bunted 35 times last year and this year we have 28 with two weeks plus at least two weeks of postseason ball to go. The difference is we don't have a poster going full blast about how dumb bunting is every time we bunt in a sad attempt to try to be the best baseball poster on the planet.

But I totally agree. Does drive hits to the board, so there is that.

[Todd4State]

But I totally agree. Does drive hits to the board, so there is that.

And to be clear the poster I was talking about isn't RP.

[Commercecomet24]

If you look at the stats we're about on pace to bunt just as much with Cann as we did with Cohen. We bunted 35 times last year and this year we have 28 with two weeks plus at least two weeks of postseason ball to go. The difference is we don't have a poster going full blast about how dumb bunting is every time we bunt in a sad attempt to try to be the best baseball poster on the planet.

Exactly! There's so many different philosophies that can work in
Baseball. Because a person doesn't agree with that particular philosophy doesn't mean it won't be successful. I personally don't like bunting accept in certain situations when it can put the game winning run in scoring position with a weak hitter at the plate. That being said cohen proved you can be extremely successful employing that philosophy. There are just so many different ways to run a successful offense in baseball that's it's crazy for someone to dislike a coach just because you don't agree with it. Well said, Todd.

[Noxdog]

And to be clear the poster I was talking about isn't RP.

All hell, Sorry. Who were you referring to?

[Todd4State]

Exactly! There's so many different philosophies that can work in
Baseball. Because a person doesn't agree with that particular philosophy doesn't mean it won't be successful. I personally don't like bunting accept in certain situations when it can put the game winning run in scoring position with a weak hitter at the plate. That being said cohen proved you can be extremely successful employing that philosophy. There are just so many different ways to run a successful offense in baseball that's it's crazy for someone to dislike a coach just because you don't agree with it. Well said, Todd.

Exactly. I've seen teams win with a LOT of small ball like the Cardinals in the 80's and I've seen teams win that were three run home run type teams. The common denominator is pitching and defense in both situations. Your offense is dictated by the players you have and their skill sets.

I personally like a good balance of both power and small ball- pretty similar to what we're seeing from Cann. Tony LaRussa did a lot of that when he was with the Cardinals in the late 1990's and early 2000's and also with the A's before that- you would see Fernando Vina bunt or squeeze a run home and then McGwire and or Pujols would then park one into the upper deck. The one thing I didn't like about Cohen was I thought he didn't try to steal bases enough and seemed to default to the bunt. Cann is much better about stealing and using the hit and run more than Cohen- and doing that to me actually makes the bunt aspect more successful. And it seems to me that we're as good or better at bunting for hits and sacrificing under Cann than we were under Cohen.

I remember being at the Governor's Cup this year and I LOVED watching Bianco freak out and throw about 10 pick offs because he was paranoid about us running on them. That's what speed and pressure can do. And while I'm on that game- the KEY moment in that game was when we had Stovall on and then Mangum hits a slow ground ball to third base and his speed caused Bortles to misplay the ball or at least have to field the ball cleanly to record an out. Well, that brought up Mr. Rooker and he hits a bomb on the berm in left center to essentially win the game. That's how I like baseball offense.

[Todd4State]

All hell, Sorry. Who were you referring to?

The guy that thinks you should look curveball and adjust to the fastball. I can't remember his name.

[Coackjek]

Einstein would have made a turrible AD.

But could he bunt?

[Commercecomet24]

Exactly. I've seen teams win with a LOT of small ball like the Cardinals in the 80's and I've seen teams win that were three run home run type teams. The common denominator is pitching and defense in both situations. Your offense is dictated by the players you have and their skill sets.

I personally like a good balance of both power and small ball- pretty similar to what we're seeing from Cann. Tony LaRussa did a lot of that when he was with the Cardinals in the late 1990's and early 2000's and also with the A's before that- you would see Fernando Vina bunt or squeeze a run home and then McGwire and or Pujols would then park one into the upper deck. The one thing I didn't like about Cohen was I thought he didn't try to steal bases enough and seemed to default to the bunt. Cann is much better about stealing and using the hit and run more than Cohen- and doing that to me actually makes the bunt aspect more successful. And it seems to me that we're as good or better at bunting for hits and sacrificing under Cann than we were under Cohen.

I remember being at the Governor's Cup this year and I LOVED watching Bianco freak out and throw about 10 pick offs because he was paranoid about us running on them. That's what speed and pressure can do. And while I'm on that game- the KEY moment in that game was when we had Stovall on and then Mangum hits a slow ground ball to third base and his speed caused Bortles to misplay the ball or at least have to field the ball cleanly to record an out. Well, that brought up Mr. Rooker and he hits a bomb on the berm in left center to essentially win the game. That's how I like baseball offense.

I love the running game in baseball. It changes the way defenses do everything. It puts so much pressure on the defense. I even run my slower guys just pick the spots. It makes the other team know every time you have a base runner the potential is there for a steal or hit and run. Changes pitch selection, defensive alignments, everything.

[lamont]

If you look at the stats we're about on pace to bunt just as much with Cann as we did with Cohen. We bunted 35 times last year and this year we have 28 with two weeks plus at least two weeks of postseason ball to go. The difference is we don't have a poster going full blast about how dumb bunting is every time we bunt in a sad attempt to try to be the best baseball poster on the planet.

Disagree- Cohen finally realized last season how insane the bunting was and stopped wasting outs at midseason.

2015- 41 sac bunts
2014- 60 sac bunts
2013- 57 sac bunts
2012- 67 sac bunts

us being at 28 under Cann shows the difference in mentality

[msstate7]

Disagree- Cohen finally realized last season how insane the bunting was and stopped wasting outs at midseason.

2015- 41 sac bunts
2014- 60 sac bunts
2013- 57 sac bunts
2012- 67 sac bunts

us being at 28 under Cann shows the difference in mentality

There's a ball change you're not taking into account

[lamont]

There's a ball change you're not taking into account

It wouldnt matter. LSU didnt bunt as much as we did the last few years

[Todd4State]

It wouldnt matter. LSU didnt bunt as much as we did the last few years

Actually with Cann there they bunted 36 times to our 35 last year. And then his first year they bunted 31 times. We're about on pace with what his offenses have typically done in that arena.

Kentucky leads the conference far and away in bunts with 42 compared to our 28 which ranks fourth in the SEC currently.

And we all know who Kentucky's coach is.

[dawgoneyall]

It wouldnt matter. LSU didnt bunt as much as we did the last few years

Steroids are wonderful drugs.

[DownwardDawg]

The guy that thinks you should look curveball and adjust to the fastball. I can't remember his name.

Will lives on. Lol
He killed threads.

[gravedigger]

There are just so many different ways to run a successful offense in baseball that's it's crazy for someone to dislike a coach just because you don't agree with it.

An indisputable point that will NEVER be understood by some fans. They are so stuck on bogus talent evaluations,some strategy of the day or some dislike for a coach that they cannot fathom not having the one true answer for why a team is winning or losing. Happens in all sports.

It's never ONE thing. Never.

I will say that the manner in how a staff relates to players and a clear vision of the head coach to them weigh heavily.

But batting orders and Recruiting rankings and motion offenses aren't nearly the culprits they are given credit for being.

[lamont]

Actually with Cann there they bunted 36 times to our 35 last year. And then his first year they bunted 31 times. We're about on pace with what his offenses have typically done in that arena.

Kentucky leads the conference far and away in bunts with 42 compared to our 28 which ranks fourth in the SEC currently.

And we all know who Kentucky's coach is.

A) Maneiri was making alot of those calls
B) As I stated- they didnt bunt as much as us the last few years. 10 more bunts by us over them in 2015. That's alot.

Sac Bunting has its place in baseball- just not in the 1st 3 innings

[msstate7]

A) Maneiri was making alot of those calls
B) As I stated- they didnt bunt as much as us the last few years. 10 more bunts by us over them in 2015. That's alot.

Sac Bunting has its place in baseball- just not in the 1st 3 innings

You realize Cann bunted in the 3rd vs auburn and aTm, right? Lost the auburn game 17-8 and lost aTm game 9-2

[gravedigger]

A) Maneiri was making alot of those calls
B) As I stated- they didnt bunt as much as us the last few years. 10 more bunts by us over them in 2015. That's alot.

Sac Bunting has its place in baseball- just not in the 1st 3 innings

Yes it does at its appropriate time. Just not in every game's 1st 3 innings. When you are facing a conference ace, sure. When The situation calls for it. Polk didn't call for a bunt in any inning after Tony Gage got picked off in the 80's in the CWS. That was a poor strategy too.

[Zildjan]

Never understood the Cohen hate.

And he will be eventually the best AD we have had.

Without question he is the smartest...although, that isn't always the most important part of the job.

Dude was really interesting to listen to during a ball game. Highly intelligent and really dissecting the game within the game. He also gave some insight into what he expects some of the younger players to mature into. It was really impressive to listen to.

[msstate7]

Dude was really interesting to listen to during a ball game. Highly intelligent and really dissecting the game within the game. He also gave some insight into what he expects some of the younger players to mature into. It was really impressive to listen to.

Which young players was he highest on?

[confucius say]

Dude was really interesting to listen to during a ball game. Highly intelligent and really dissecting the game within the game. He also gave some insight into what he expects some of the younger players to mature into. It was really impressive to listen to.

He was on during the auburn series too. Very good.

[Zildjan]

Which young players was he highest on?

Vansau and Poole quite a bit. He really talked about Poole's speed ad how he will be really good once he adjusts to the college slider, etc. Really interesting. If I'm not mistaken he said something about Poole reminding him of a young Rooker. Also said Vansau has a very simple swing and they liked that a lot.

[Political Hack]

Never understood the Cohen hate.

And he will be eventually the best AD we have had.

Without question he is the smartest...although, that isn't always the most important part of the job.

I usually enjoy disagreeing with you, but can't here. He and the Ninja are the two best we've had in my lifetime.

[Bothrops]

hire an untested Asst. coach when he could have brought in a proven winner.

Given how we've performed this season, why this now?

[CadaverDawg]

Vansau and Poole quite a bit. He really talked about Poole's speed ad how he will be really good once he adjusts to the college slider, etc. Really interesting. If I'm not mistaken he said something about Poole reminding him of a young Rooker. Also said Vansau has a very simple swing and they liked that a lot.

I thought Poole was a Junior? Is he just a Soph?

[dawgoneyall]

Given how we've performed this season, why this now?

It was being sarcastic.

Or maybe you were?

If he is not coach of the year then they need to quit having that award.

[CadaverDawg]

A) Maneiri was making alot of those calls
B) As I stated- they didnt bunt as much as us the last few years. 10 more bunts by us over them in 2015. That's alot.

Sac Bunting has its place in baseball- just not in the 1st 3 innings

One post before this, you used LSU bunting stats to defend your point, then in the next post you used "Manieri made some of those calls" to defend another. C'mon man.

Side note: Nothing pisses me off more than someone that says "never do _____" in baseball. That's what makes baseball special, that every game and every situation is different. Like yesterday, one might say "Never let Jolly throw fastballs to this guy", and Jolly threw 4 straight heaters and K'd the guy without him taking the bat off his shoulder. Fooled him completely.
Same can be said for sac bunting early. If a guy has your number and you have a chance to scratch a run across, sometimes the situation calls for it. And despite the criticism many gave Cohen for his bunting...we won a lot of close games where our momentum started from a bunt single, scratching a run out with a sac bunt, or bunting and our opponent making an error on it. Cohen knew he had Butch and that it wouldn't take but a few runs to get the job done...and he was usually right. Then last year....no Butch, less bunt. Give Cohen some credit...just bc he didn't win the way some of you would have tried to win....he won, a lot.
But the whole, "never sac bunt early in a game" thing is just hot air. You do what you gotta do to win, and nobody knows their team like the coach...so there's a method to whatever chess move is made. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Saying "no place for bunting early in a game" is just someone trying to seem like they know more than they do about baseball imo. This side note is not directed at any one person either, just my thoughts in general.

I'll get off my soapbox now. I just hate when people use absolutes in baseball. Baseball is NEVER a game of absolutes.

[biggun]

If it had only been one game- it wouldnt have been a big deal. It was the constant giving away of outs in the 1st 3 innings of games.

Also- will never understand why Cody didnt platoon with Humphries last year. Hump couldnt hit good RHP's but we kept running him out there. Hump must have hit .450 vs LHP's last year- but K after K vs RHP's. Cody has been nothing but a .300 hitter for us except last year when he didnt get consistent AB's. A platoon there and it makes us a better team. Plus Hump could have pitched more

Cody got 20 total starts in 2016, which included 9 SEC starts and played in 19 SEC games but only hit .200 in SEC games, .241 overall. Hump hit .284 in SEC games, .310 overall, not sure about lefty righty matchups. Cohen worships stats & data analytics so I can't imagine him not making a move with Hump if he was that bad vs lefties.

[lamont]

Cody got 20 total starts in 2016, which included 9 SEC starts and played in 19 SEC games but only hit .200 in SEC games, .241 overall. Hump hit .284 in SEC games, .310 overall, not sure about lefty righty matchups. Cohen worships stats & data analytics so I can't imagine him not making a move with Hump if he was that bad vs lefties.

Hump was bad vs RHP's. He absolutely crushed LHP's. We couldnt understand why he wouldnt make a move either

[lamont]

One post before this, you used LSU bunting stats to defend your point, then in the next post you used "Manieri made some of those calls" to defend another. C'mon man.
I'll get off my soapbox now. I just hate when people use absolutes in baseball. Baseball is NEVER a game of absolutes.

Allow me to explain it to you since you missed it.

I was showing that Cann's bunt numbers were more in line with LSU's strategy- not with the Bunting Meddler we had as coach previously.

I also pointed out last season that when Cohen stopped bunting as much- our offense got better and we went on that run in the SEC last year. Our fewest number of bunts in the Cohen Era contributed to us winning an SEC Title for the 1st time since 1989. We stopped giving sooooo many outs away

As to your absolutes portion of your post- we'll just disagree. I'm a firm believer in playing for the big inning early on. You dont give away outs early in the game. We had pitchers walk 2 straight batters to get themselves in trouble- then Cohen would bunt to let the pitcher off the hook by giving him an out. Make the pitcher have to battle to get that 1st out- dont just hand it to him. There is always a little bit of relief when you get an out. Dont give that away for free. Keep him in turmoil- make him earn his way out of it.

[lamont]

One reason our bunts are as high as they are this year is because of the dead weight we have had at the bottom of the order. I'd say moving forward in future seasons we'll see less of them

[msstate7]

One reason our bunts are as high as they are this year is because of the dead weight we have had at the bottom of the order. I'd say moving forward in future seasons we'll see less of them

Cody brown is tied for lead with Poole in sac bunts at 5

[somebodyshotmypaw]

As to your absolutes portion of your post- we'll just disagree. I'm a firm believer in playing for the big inning early on. You dont give away outs early in the game. We had pitchers walk 2 straight batters to get themselves in trouble- then Cohen would bunt to let the pitcher off the hook by giving him an out. Make the pitcher have to battle to get that 1st out- dont just hand it to him. There is always a little bit of relief when you get an out. Dont give that away for free. Keep him in turmoil- make him earn his way out of it.

I'm not a fan of absolutes. If you see rain coming and think the game will only go 5 innings, then the third inning is actually the same as the 7th in a normal game. Maybe you play for a run in the third, use your setup guy in the fourth, your closer in the fifth, and take home a victory.

[lamont]

Cody brown is tied for lead with Poole in sac bunts at 5

with Lovelady and Belmont at 4 each. 3 of our top 4 Sac bunters are bottom of the order guys

[CadaverDawg]

I'm not a fan of absolutes. If you see rain coming and think the game will only go 5 innings, then the third inning is actually the same as the 7th in a normal game. Maybe you play for a run in the third, use your setup guy in the fourth, your closer in the fifth, and take home a victory.

Yep, and playing absolutes like RP, is why he could never be a SEC coach. Bc teams would play their infield back til the 6th inning allowing no balls through bc they know their opponent never bunts before the 6th. They would also throw a RHP bc their opponent will bench his best hitter for a lefty that hits .200. The reason you can't deal in absolutes is bc you have to be at least a little unpredictable, or else you're too easy to prepare for.

[Commercecomet24]

Yep, and playing absolutes like RP, is why he could never be a SEC coach. Bc teams would play their infield back til the 6th inning allowing no balls through bc they know their opponent never bunts before the 6th. They would also throw a RHP bc their opponent will bench his best hitter for a lefty that hits .200. The reason you can't deal in absolutes is bc you have to be at least a little unpredictable, or else you're too easy to prepare for.

Very well said!

[Noxdog]

Dude was really interesting to listen to during a ball game. Highly intelligent and really dissecting the game within the game. He also gave some insight into what he expects some of the younger players to mature into. It was really impressive to listen to.

On the thoughts about the younger guys??

[lamont]

Yep, and playing absolutes like RP, is why he could never be a SEC coach. Bc teams would play their infield back til the 6th inning allowing no balls through bc they know their opponent never bunts before the 6th. They would also throw a RHP bc their opponent will bench his best hitter for a lefty that hits .200. The reason you can't deal in absolutes is bc you have to be at least a little unpredictable, or else you're too easy to prepare for.

A) Nobody ever said anything about bunting for a hit. We are talking Sac bunting. Teams will always play people at the appropriate depth just in case. I said the 1st 3 innings- not sure why you mentioned the 6th inning. Apples to Oranges. We are talking one simple philosophy- dont ****ing sac bunt in the 1st 3 innings. Its retarded and bad baseball.

B) Cody only had 83 total AB's last year- thats not consistent playing time. He had 35 SEC AB's. aGAIN- not consistent playing time over 10 weeks. Stop the drama