Should We Move Self to Rotation?

[confucius say]

1. It's obvious we only have one dependable weekend starter.

2. Hindu/Cann approach the pen more traditionally, keeping guys in their "roles" and not overextending a set up guy or closer. We chose not to bring self in until well after game 3 was decided yesterday. Contrast this to butch/Cohen who would bring in holder or lingren in the fourth.

3. Given no. 2, it seems like we may get more value making self a starter and getting 6 out of him instead of 2 innings a weekend where the game may or may not still be in question.

4. You still have price on the backend and he has proven he can close multiple days in a row.

5. If no on self, what about Denver?

[msstate7]

I think self is more valuable out of pen. I'd like to see use price longer on fridays with pilk. This would allow us to go to self earlier on Saturday. An ideal situation to me is...

Friday: pilk 7 ip + Barton 1 ip + price 1 ip

Saturday: Denver 4 ip + self 4-5 ip... price if needed for 1

Sunday: JB 3 ip + plumlee 3 ip + Cole/Barton/Barlow/blaylock/jolly

ETA... if self is required Friday, you use him. If we have a good lead or Denver is rolling, hold off on self. I don't wanna lock self into certain innings on Saturday, but I think it could be a good role for him

[basedog]

McQuary will probably get a chance to start. No on Self, we are still tied for first, we had one really bad game this weekend, the third game was lack of timely hitting. I think most aren't giving Auburn credit, they are a very good team.

Should be another good series this weekend, I think not playing a mid week game will help, we shall see.

[msstate7]

McQuary will probably get a chance to start. No on Self, we are still tied for first, we had one really bad game this weekend, the third game was lack of timely hitting. I think most aren't giving Auburn credit, they are a very good team.

Should be another good series this weekend, I think not playing a mid week game will help, we shall see.

No midweek is huge. We have a chance to set our staff exactly how we want this weekend

[confucius say]

And to be clear, I'm not saying I'd move self, just brainstorming. I do think a move has to be made though, probably Denver to Saturday. If not, you have to get Cole out at the first sign of trouble, not after two have scored and another is on.

[WSOPdawg]

Everything we say is in hindsight, but to me, your two RP studs should be used whenever trouble develops. For example, we're up 3-1 going into the 4th in Game 2 yesterday and while Gordon had gone through the AU lineup once, he totally lost it in the 4th and they scored 7 runs. We know Gordon is no Smoltz or Maddux (heck he's not really even a pitcher but we're making do given our injury situation), so when he puts runners on 1st & 2nd with no outs, it's time to change with a big gun.

Bring Self in and hope to get 3 innings out of him and you're into the 7th. The score shouldn't be anywhere close to 8-3 going to the bottom of the 4th and in fact, there's a great chance we're still leading. Now you've got a great chance to win game 2 knowing that Self is burned for game 3, but who gives a shit, you've won the series. Anyway it's all hindsight. I just hate that our stud RPers didn't get used in any meaningful innings in the double header yesterday.

[msstate7]

And to be clear, I'm not saying I'd move self, just brainstorming. I do think a move has to be made though, probably Denver to Saturday. If not, you have to get Cole out at the first sign of trouble, not after two have scored and another is on.

I agree

[confucius say]

Everything we say is in hindsight, but to me, your two RP studs should be used whenever trouble develops. For example, we're up 3-1 going into the 4th in Game 2 yesterday and while Gordon had gone through the AU lineup once, he totally lost it in the 4th and they scored 7 runs. We know Gordon is no Smoltz or Maddux (heck he's not really even a pitcher but we're making do given our injury situation), so when he puts runners on 1st & 2nd with no outs, it's time to change with a big gun.

Bring Self in and hope to get 3 innings out of him and you're into the 7th. The score shouldn't be anywhere close to 8-3 going to the bottom of the 4th and in fact, there's a great chance we're still leading. Now you've got a great chance to win game 2 knowing that Self is burned for game 3, but who gives a shit, you've won the series. Anyway it's all hindsight. I just hate that our stud RPers didn't get used in any meaningful innings in the double header yesterday.

That is my whole premise, maximizing the value of self and price. I would rather do it your way (bring self in earlier), but it seems like Hindu/Cann don't wamt to bring self in until the 7th or 8th.

[CadaverDawg]

I'm not sure starting him is the answer, but being more willing to use him earlier in games to shut down threats would be nice.

I think we need to go to a Butch Thompson piggy back system on Sat and Sun going forward. I'm not 100% sure exactly who compliments each other best, but something like...

Pilk, Self, Price

Plumlee, Barlow, McQuary, Self

Billingsley, Gordon, Barton, Price

Some order of those guys that shows a new look/speed/arm slot every time through the lineup.

[CadaverDawg]

Everything we say is in hindsight, but to me, your two RP studs should be used whenever trouble develops. For example, we're up 3-1 going into the 4th in Game 2 yesterday and while Gordon had gone through the AU lineup once, he totally lost it in the 4th and they scored 7 runs. We know Gordon is no Smoltz or Maddux (heck he's not really even a pitcher but we're making do given our injury situation), so when he puts runners on 1st & 2nd with no outs, it's time to change with a big gun.

Bring Self in and hope to get 3 innings out of him and you're into the 7th. The score shouldn't be anywhere close to 8-3 going to the bottom of the 4th and in fact, there's a great chance we're still leading. Now you've got a great chance to win game 2 knowing that Self is burned for game 3, but who gives a shit, you've won the series. Anyway it's all hindsight. I just hate that our stud RPers didn't get used in any meaningful innings in the double header yesterday.

Yep, I agree. This is how you have to play it with a depleted staff. Play to win each game without worrying about the next one....If you win the series but don't have enough pitching left to sweep, oh well. At least you didn't lose two of three by trying to squeeze extra innings out of guys like Jolly or Plumlee, while Self and Price are getting splinters on the bench

[CadaverDawg]

By the way, how great would it be to even have a Vance Tatum type in our pen right now? Not only is our whole staff depleted, but we only have one reliable LHP in our entire bullpen (Barlow) unless I'm forgetting someone. It's hard to even setup a piggyback system when every pitcher on your staff is a 90 mph RHP

[confucius say]

To add, is it true that rigby is not coming back this year? Heard that on BSR Friday.

[TNDawg35]

With our pitching right now, I wouldn't be disappointed to go 2 and out in the SECT. Get the guys some rest and lets make the run. To me, were already hosting. Now were trying to get into the National seed pic. Which unless we win the SEC reg season, I don't think we will be. For some reason, everything is KY this and KY that. Don't get me wrong, they are good, but I don't think they are as good as being made out to be. The SEC in whole is down this yr and they have taken advantage of that. However, we took 2 of 3 and lead them in the standings. It just doesn't make sense to me about KY getting all this attention.

If it were me, at the start of the regional, I throw Self 1st game, then Pilk the 2nd. Then barring a total collapse, we have the "rest" of the pen for the next 2 games. Even if we bring back Self for GM 4 if it goes. Then you still have Pilk to start GM 1 of SR. Im just thinking out loud here and may br wrong, but I dont think when we start Regional play we need to get in a big whole and Self sitting in the pen not getting used..

Like stated above, yesterday I would have brought him in when we brought Plum in. Self has strike out stuff. Plum pitches to contact. As soon as he let the GS pitch go, I just dropped my head...

[CadaverDawg]

With our pitching right now, I wouldn't be disappointed to go 2 and out in the SECT. Get the guys some rest and lets make the run. To me, were already hosting. Now were trying to get into the National seed pic. Which unless we win the SEC reg season, I don't think we will be. For some reason, everything is KY this and KY that. Don't get me wrong, they are good, but I don't think they are as good as being made out to be. The SEC in whole is down this yr and they have taken advantage of that. However, we took 2 of 3 and lead them in the standings. It just doesn't make sense to me about KY getting all this attention.

If it were me, at the start of the regional, I throw Self 1st game, then Pilk the 2nd. Then barring a total collapse, we have the "rest" of the pen for the next 2 games. Even if we bring back Self for GM 4 if it goes. Then you still have Pilk to start GM 1 of SR. Im just thinking out loud here and may br wrong, but I dont think when we start Regional play we need to get in a big whole and Self sitting in the pen not getting used..

Like stated above, yesterday I would have brought him in when we brought Plum in. Self has strike out stuff. Plum pitches to contact. As soon as he let the GS pitch go, I just dropped my head...

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Donald-Trump-Confused-Face-2015-Republican-Debate.gif

Seems way to early to feel safe that we're gonna host imo. And you're wanting to start a guy in Game 1 of a Regional that has never started a game?

[TNDawg35]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Donald-Trump-Confused-Face-2015-Republican-Debate.gif

I dont know whether to bow my head and cry or or start smiling... haha

[CadaverDawg]

I dont know whether to bow my head and cry or or start smiling... haha

Lol, it was meant to be funny...thanks for not taking it the wrong way like some would. Ha

[TNDawg35]

Lol, it was meant to be funny...thanks for not taking it the wrong way like some would. Ha

No, I meant that towards you. If you were calling me a dumbass or actually thinking Im right. I could care less about the meme...

[I seen it dawg]

You can't start self game 1..it's established he's a pen guy. This late in the year he's staying in the pen.

[WSOPdawg]

Denver McQuary on the other hand has the potential to develop into an Austin Sexton-type next year and definitely by his Jr year.

[Dawgfan6]

Why change what's gotten you to this point? After all the injuries this season, nobody even thought we would be in the discussion to make a region, much less host, or be a contender for a national seed if we win the league. The guys are in the roles they are in for a reason.

[confucius say]

Why change what's gotten you to this point? After all the injuries this season, nobody even thought we would be in the discussion to make a region, much less host, or be a contender for a national seed if we win the league. The guys are in the roles they are in for a reason.

But Gordon has stalled out. Even if we win his games, it's due to overcoming his start. Sincere Kudos to him for being able to help out, but he has plateaued.

[Dawgfan6]

But Gordon has stalled out. Even if we win his games, it's due to overcoming his start. Sincere Kudos to him for being able to help out, but he has plateaued.

I'm interested to see how many people Cannizzaro gets rid of next year and replaces with top tier juco arms

[diamonddawg17]

I don't know what role Self needs to continue in but looking back at stats, he completely dominated a top team in Texas Tech throwing 5 innings. He hasn't thrown over 2 innings since.

[msstate7]

I'm interested to see how many people Cannizzaro gets rid of next year and replaces with top tier juco arms

Definetely think there will be turnover. I don't see any way we keep all of our TJ guys

[Todd4State]

As depleted as our roster is there won't be a lot of turnover. At least not any more than usual and I wouldn't be surprised if there was less.

And I don't think there really needs to be a lot of attrition. Our guys play hard in general and have a good chance to host. And cutting a yon less than 18 months out of Tommy John surgery is shitty.

[Dawgfan6]

Definetely think there will be turnover. I don't see any way we keep all of our TJ guys

Or Ford, jolly, Mahoney, plumlee. I'd get rid of all of them and maybe even Barton. Go find dominant guys. Plumlee juco era was 5.something. If he can't dominate juco what makes them think he can dominate the SEC?

[msstate7]

Or Ford, jolly, Mahoney, plumlee. I'd get rid of all of them and maybe even Barton. Go find dominant guys. Plumlee juco era was 5.something. If he can't dominate juco what makes them think he can dominate the SEC?

Plumlee's era is 2.94. I don't think I'd run him off just yet.

[Todd4State]

Or Ford, jolly, Mahoney, plumlee. I'd get rid of all of them and maybe even Barton. Go find dominant guys. Plumlee juco era was 5.something. If he can't dominate juco what makes them think he can dominate the SEC?

Plumlee's ERA was better than Self's coming into the Auburn series. I agree that he's not dominant- but he has performed well at times and has been more solid than not this year. Ford and Mahoney are both coming off of Tommy John surgery. We cut them before 18 months and it will hurt our reputation in the baseball community. Especially since there is some question that our last pitching coach and S&C guy may have some fault in our Tommy John injuries.

[msstate7]

As depleted as our roster is there won't be a lot of turnover. At least not any more than usual and I wouldn't be surprised if there was less.

And I don't think there really needs to be a lot of attrition. Our guys play hard in general and have a good chance to host. And cutting a yon less than 18 months out of Tommy John surgery is shitty.

I agree it isn't very nice. I just don't think we can enter next season with a ton of pitchers coming off major injury or about to come off major injury.

[MarketingBully]

I think yesterday was a case of not understanding how to use a depleted staff with a double header. I think if we have a regular Friday, Saturday, Sunday series we take 2/3. As long as we don't run into one of those again, we should be fine. We did dumb things in the first game because we were thinking ahead to the second game instead of playing to win the first. With that said I think if we replace Gordon with McQuery in the Saturday game, we should be fine down the stretch. We have A&M, Georgia, and LSU to finish. I think 6-3 or 7-2 is a reasonable goal to finish the season. As for Auburn and U.K., I think they wilt down the stretch. It's easier to be the hunter then the hunted and I think the pressure will get to them and they drop some games they shouldn't.

[CadaverDawg]

Let's not talk about hoping certain guys are gone next year and stuff like that pointing out specific players. We have a very good many players and player parents that are regulars on elitedawgs....so put yourself in their shoes when you see a post like that. Not trying to get on a soapbox or anything, just consider things like that before posting if you don't mind.

[msstate7]

Let's not talk about hoping certain guys are gone next year and stuff like that pointing out specific players. We have a very good many players and player parents that are regulars on elitedawgs....so put yourself in their shoes when you see a post like that. Not trying to get on a soapbox or anything, just consider things like that before posting if you don't mind.

I'm cool with that. Let's use this rule for all sports though

[Todd4State]

I agree it isn't very nice. I just don't think we can enter next season with a ton of pitchers coming off major injury or about to come off major injury.

What we will do is redshirt them and not put them on the 35 man roster. Like we're doing with Ethan Small. Just outright cutting them from the team when the surgery has a success rate of 75% or more and in many cases the guy is better is not smart.

[Todd4State]

I think yesterday was a case of not understanding how to use a depleted staff with a double header. I think if we have a regular Friday, Saturday, Sunday series we take 2/3. As long as we don't run into one of those again, we should be fine. We did dumb things in the first game because we were thinking ahead to the second game instead of playing to win the first. With that said I think if we replace Gordon with McQuery in the Saturday game, we should be fine down the stretch. We have A&M, Georgia, and LSU to finish. I think 6-3 or 7-2 is a reasonable goal to finish the season. As for Auburn and U.K., I think they wilt down the stretch. It's easier to be the hunter then the hunted and I think the pressure will get to them and they drop some games they shouldn't.

Post more. I agree with everything you said.

[msstate7]

What we will do is redshirt them and not put them on the 35 man roster. Like we're doing with Ethan Small. Just outright cutting them from the team when the surgery has a success rate of 75% or more and in many cases the guy is better is not smart.

Would the guys that could potentially pitch later in the season agree to that? If so, I agree, do that

[CadaverDawg]

I'm cool with that. Let's use this rule for all sports though

Fair enough. And I wasn't referring to your posts. Saying we need to have some attrition at pitcher is one thing...saying "we need to get rid of _____ , _____, & _____," is what I was referring to.

[Todd4State]

Would the guys that could potentially pitch later in the season agree to that? If so, I agree, do that

More than likely yes because a full season of college baseball showing scouts that you are healthy increases their draft stock.

[msstate7]

..saying "we need to get rid of _____ , _____, & _____," is what I was referring to.

My answers: mullen, hev, Gonzalez

How'd I do? Haha

[CadaverDawg]

My answers: mullen, hev, Gonzalez

How'd I do? Haha

Hev is allowed.**

[diamonddawg17]

Plumlee's ERA was better than Self's coming into the Auburn series. I agree that he's not dominant- but he has performed well at times and has been more solid than not this year. Ford and Mahoney are both coming off of Tommy John surgery. We cut them before 18 months and it will hurt our reputation in the baseball community. Especially since there is some question that our last pitching coach and S&C guy may have some fault in our Tommy John injuries.

According to hailstate website that is not correct.
Before Auburn, Self had a 2.59 era and Plumlee had a 2.98. These are overall.
In sec play self had 2.16 and Plumlee had 3.86. Of course now those numbers have changed. Self has the second lowest overall era on team behind Price and lowest sec era.

[Todd4State]

According to hailstate website that is not correct.
Before Auburn, Self had a 2.59 era and Plumlee had a 2.98. These are overall.
In sec play self had 2.16 and Plumlee had 3.86. Of course now those numbers have changed. Self has the second lowest overall era on team behind Price and lowest sec era.

I don't know where I was mistaken about that- I thought I remember looking at the stats and seeing that Plumlee had a better ERA than Self and it surprised me. It may have actually been before the Governor's Cup and I just got mixed up. Either way- I don't think we should or would cut a guy from for an ERA of sub 3 on the season.