Billy G - Why can't we get a WR drafted

[ShotgunDawg]

Back to back years. Horrible recruiting and two draft worthy WRs go undrafted the past 2 years.

Perhaps my blame is mis placed and perhaps this thread is should be deleted, but what gives here?

Why aren't we bringing in better WRs and should we question if the ones we do bring in are developing?

The production from this position unit is shit.

[Madisonmd]

Back to back years. Horrible recruiting and two draft worthy WRs go undrafted the past 2 years.

Perhaps my blame is mis placed and perhaps this thread is should be deleted, but what gives here?

Why aren't we bringing in better WRs and should we question if the ones we do bring in are developing?

The production from this position unit is shit.

I'll add. Are we the best coached team in history? We have no NFL talent and yet have won some games! LA Tech had 5+ draft picks! How are we winning?

[Quaoarsking]

This is the second straight year our fanbase is pretty surprised to see one of the best WRs in school history not get drafted. Did we just look at them through maroon blinders?

[ShotgunDawg]

amazing how the 2014 team was far better on offense when the defense apparently had far better players.

[msstate7]

Billy G needs to tighten up, but bear and Fred are good enough to win games in the sec even if they aren't NFL caliber. I'll take 6 of them as our wr crew every year

[Madisonmd]

My concern is our staff has recruiting shortfalls, for whatever reason?

[Tbonewannabe]

I will say Speedy Noil and Ricky Seals didn't get drafted either also the 2 high rated guys from UNM.

[ShotgunDawg]

We bring mediocre players in the front door and don't really develop them. I mean, what does he do?

I'd love to watch Hev and Billy G co-head coach a team. They'd run it in the ground in 3-4 years. Like Kansas bad

[Madisonmd]

I sometimes worry that this theme/message we put out of development and hard work is a veil to cover up our recruiting deficiencies?

[Quaoarsking]

We bring mediocre players in the front door and don't really develop them. I mean, what does he do?

I'd love to watch Hev and Billy G co-head coach a team. They'd run it in the ground in 3-4 years. Like Kansas bad

Oh come on. Fred Ross and De'Runnya Wilson both improved a lot from their freshman year to the end of their careers.

[Dawg61]

This is the second straight year our fanbase is pretty surprised to see one of the best WRs in school history not get drafted. Did we just look at them through maroon blinders?

Well none of us expected DeRunnya to sign a shoe deal with Cement Molasses right before the combine.

[ShotgunDawg]

Oh come on. Fred Ross and De'Runnya Wilson both improved a lot from their freshman year to the end of their careers.

Not sure I've ever seen a player get worse from FR on except guys who lose their bodies. Of course they got better. They added strength.

[Dawg61]

Same scouts and NFL higher ups working the drafts as there's been the last 30 years and our history at the WR position over those 30 years is total shit so they probably don't look at us very much at that position still. These guys miss on players like 80% of the time. Pro Bowl Dak Prescott got drafted in the 4th round and horrible shit Jared Goff got taken #1 overall. Explain that NFL "experts".

[msstate7]

Not sure I've ever seen a player get worse from FR on except guys who lose their bodies. Of course they got better. They added strength.

Weren't bear and Ross both all sec players?

[Bothrops]

My concern is our staff has recruiting shortfalls, for whatever reason?

This is true. We weren't really able to build on momentum after the '14 season. So, I'm not really sure that OM being down and out in the future will make any difference in our recruiting, going forward. I think we continue along between 20th and 35th, even if OM weren't around.

[Ari Gold]

I will say Speedy Noil and Ricky Seals didn't get drafted either also the 2 high rated guys from UNM.

And Dupree goes late 7th.
I thought Fred would be drafted for sure.

[Quaoarsking]

We bring mediocre players in the front door and don't really develop them. I mean, what does he do?

I'd love to watch Hev and Billy G co-head coach a team. They'd run it in the ground in 3-4 years. Like Kansas bad

Oh come on. Fred Ross and De'Runnya Wilson both improved a lot from their freshman year to the end of their careers.

Not sure I've ever seen a player get worse from FR on except guys who lose their bodies. Of course they got better. They added strength.

So you expected Fred Ross to 199 passes in his career after he caught 9 his freshman year? (The previous school record being 162)

You expected 199 after his caught 30 in his sophomore year?

[ShotgunDawg]

So you expected Fred Ross to 199 passes in his career after he caught 9 his freshman year? (The previous school record being 162)

You expected 199 after his caught 30 in his sophomore year?

Huh?

[Madisonmd]

It does surprise me of our lack of receiver talent. In the deep south, receiver body types/talents seem to be very prevalent, but we seem to "swing and miss" a lot.

[DancingRabbit]

All the drops this past year really hurt. I thought the Cowboys might use one of their two 7th rounders on him. Maybe they'll give him a free agent deal.

[Madisonmd]

Fully expect Ross to get FA deal, but odds are really stacked against FAs making it.

[Dawg61]

Huh?

translation = he just clowned you

[DancingRabbit]

Fred's headed to the Panthers.

[ShotgunDawg]

translation = he just clowned you

Your an idiot and so is anyone that thinks it's not obvious that every player typically gets better from their freshman year.

Please tell me you don't give coaches credit for a player getting marginally better from
his freshman to SR year? And don't give me stats. Most freshmen don't even know the playbook.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Your an idiot and so is anyone that thinks it's not obvious that every player typically gets better from their freshman year.

Please tell me you don't give coaches credit for a player getting marginally better from
his freshman to SR year? And don't give me stats. Most freshmen don't even know the playbook.

Billy G made 2 guys All SEC. He can't make them faster or stronger. Apparently he got the max out of them if they're all conference performers.

[ShotgunDawg]

Billy G made 2 guys All SEC. He can't make them faster or stronger. Apparently he got the max out of them if they're all conference performers.

Then bring in better players.

This isn't cutting it.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Then bring in better players.

This isn't cutting it.

Ok

[msstate7]

Then bring in better players.

This isn't cutting it.

You really think bear and Fred were costing us games?

I will concede Fred had some big drops, but he was hardly our biggest issue or an issue at all imo

[Dawg61]

We bring mediocre players in the front door and don't really develop them. I mean, what does he do?

I'd love to watch Hev and Billy G co-head coach a team. They'd run it in the ground in 3-4 years. Like Kansas bad


Oh come on. Fred Ross and De'Runnya Wilson both improved a lot from their freshman year to the end of their careers.


Not sure I've ever seen a player get worse from FR on except guys who lose their bodies. Of course they got better. They added strength.


Your an idiot

Haha bruh you got clowned on so bad. Fred Ross caught more passes than any other player in our history and that's after only having 40 thru his first 2 years. I'd say he developed/improved more than your typical player.

[Todd4State]

I think the issues with WR's are basically twofold.

1. They are the biggest divas on the planet. Our message of work hard and earn your playing time doesn't jive well with their "Just give me the damn ball" mentality some of them have. Plus a lot of them in their head think that they are college ready when they are juniors or seniors in high school anyway so "development" isn't something that resonates with them since they really think they are better than most anyone else.

2. We have roster management issues. Sometimes we recruit 2-3 outside WR's because "well we really don't need any slot WR's" and then three years later we don't have any slot WR's and have to play someone out of position. Or like this past year we had a bunch of slot WR's and no outside WR's that were upperclassmen because "We don't need outside WR's we have Bear". We need to start taking 1-2 outside guys and a slot guy every year. That way you don't end up with a 5'9" outside WR. And then anyone over 6'3" we typically turn them into a TE. Some of those we need to keep at WR. That's what I would do with Dontae Jones if it were me. He's about the same size as Bear.

[ShotgunDawg]

Haha bruh you got clowned on so bad. Fred Ross caught more passes than any other player in our history and that's after only having 40 thru his first 2 years. I'd say he developed/improved more than your typical player.

He came in a 4 star and didn't get drafted. Of course he caught passes because he was our best WR. You can't judge WRs by passes caught just like you can't judge scorers on bad basketball teams by points scored.
Both are relative to the other options in the team.

[Quaoarsking]

Your an idiot and so is anyone that thinks it's not obvious that every player typically gets better from their freshman year.

Please tell me you don't give coaches credit for a player getting marginally better from
his freshman to SR year? And don't give me stats. Most freshmen don't even know the playbook.

Sorry, but Fred Ross had one of the most dramatic improvements start to finish of any Mullen player.

[ShotgunDawg]

Sorry, but Fred Ross had one of the most dramatic improvements start to finish of any Mullen player.

Lol. 4 star to not drafted.

How do you rationalize that?

[msstate7]

Lol. 4 star to not drafted.

How do you rationalize that?

He was the only 4-star not drafted too. Unacceptable**

[Quaoarsking]

Lol. 4 star to not drafted.

How do you rationalize that?

Because he wasn't very good when he was a freshman and was mediocre as a sophomore, and then became arguably the greatest WR in school history.

His star rating doesn't change that, nor does the fact that no NFL team decided to draft him.

[BankerDog]

You realize Malachi Dupree was a 5* and got drafted in the 7th round, right? Fred isn't fast enough to be a slot, not big enough to be outside.

And to stay with your "star theme"..Senior was what a 2 or 3 star and got drafted. Should be giving Hevesy some credit there.

Funny that the 13th pick this year was a walk on, Mahommes, Trubisky, etc weren't highly rated "stars" coming out.

You're OP is dumb.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Demorea Stringfellow
Ricky Seals-Jones
Speedy Noil
KD Cannon
Travis Rudolph

All high 4 or 5* WR in this draft who went undrafted.

[Dawg61]

Demorea Stringfellow
Ricky Seals-Jones
Speedy Noil

All high 4 or 5* WR in this draft who went undrafted.

Shotgun rn

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MMyXttrHW7Q/T_1ubD4NAuI/AAAAAAAAB04/8PV-4vMNqVE/s320/spongebob.gif

[BayouDawg]

I think the issues with WR's are basically twofold.

1. They are the biggest divas on the planet. Our message of work hard and earn your playing time doesn't jive well with their "Just give me the damn ball" mentality some of them have. Plus a lot of them in their head think that they are college ready when they are juniors or seniors in high school anyway so "development" isn't something that resonates with them since they really think they are better than most anyone else.

2. We have roster management issues. Sometimes we recruit 2-3 outside WR's because "well we really don't need any slot WR's" and then three years later we don't have any slot WR's and have to play someone out of position. Or like this past year we had a bunch of slot WR's and no outside WR's that were upperclassmen because "We don't need outside WR's we have Bear". We need to start taking 1-2 outside guys and a slot guy every year. That way you don't end up with a 5'9" outside WR. And then anyone over 6'3" we typically turn them into a TE. Some of those we need to keep at WR. That's what I would do with Dontae Jones if it were me. He's about the same size as Bear.

Couldn't agree more about the roster mismanagement. It's like we've put Hev in charge of the numbers.

[MaroonFlounder]

Ross had a lot of good tape for the scouts. But several drops this past season that would have been TDs.

[lamont]

Haha bruh you got clowned on so bad. Fred Ross caught more passes than any other player in our history and that's after only having 40 thru his first 2 years. I'd say he developed/improved more than your typical player.

Comparing today's players and offenses to our history is moronic.

[lamont]

He was the only 4-star not drafted too. Unacceptable**

Welllll- a large percentage are. So it doesnt look good for us

[parabrave]

One other thing that everyone is missing is that this was a heavy defensive draft. Dam near every safety and cornerback in the US and Canada* were taken.

[thedawginme]

Welllll- a large percentage are. So it doesnt look good for us

What percentage?

[Todd4State]

Couldn't agree more about the roster mismanagement. It's like we've put Hev in charge of the numbers.

I know- it drives me nuts when I see like a year or two out that we need a center and lo and behold here we are looking at possibly starting a guy that should be our LT at center.

Can we really not hire someone that can make a depth chart for Dan that goes out about 5-6 years so that we can see where the holes are? I'm sure 100% of MSU students could handle this and surely we can find someone on the staff- like maybe one of the recruiting specialists to handle it.

Heck- I'll do it for them if they want me to.

And of course when we do have a weakness at a position group it always seems to be dumpster fire proportions of bad.

[Liverpooldawg]

Comparing today's players and offenses to our history is moronic.

No it's not. ignoring how far we have come IS moronic. THAT is you to a T my friend.

[BeardoMSU]

No it's not. ignoring how far we have come IS moronic. THAT is you to a T my friend.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Liverpooldawg again.

[Dawg61]

Comparing today's players and offenses to our history is moronic.

I keep waiting for you to show me another school that's broken all their previous offensive records eight times in the last eight years besides MSU. You keep shitting on our offense yet it's better than Utah's has been the last seven years in a row and that's playing against much stiffer defenses. What Dan has done here is miraculous AT WORST. Fred Ross had 10 catches his freshman year and finished his career with the most receptions in school history and Shotgun tried to shit on our WR coach like Fred Ross hadn't developed more than the average player. GTFOH. I am not in love with BG but using Fred Ross as an example of why he sucks is "moronic".

[Where'sWaldo]

It seems to me that EVERYONE is completely missing the point. We have a recruiting issue at WR but Billy G has proven how good of a coach he is by creating all sec guys that don't have an elite skill set. Derrunya ran a 5 flat 40 and couldn't catch with his hands extended and Ross was undersized and couldn't elevate and catch a ball in traffic. He also had a drops issue. Billy G is doing a great job he just needs to get more talent to work with.

[msstate7]

It seems to me that EVERYONE is completely missing the point. We have a recruiting issue at WR but Billy G has proven how good of a coach he is by creating all sec guys that don't have an elite skill set. Derrunya ran a 5 flat 40 and couldn't catch with his hands extended and Ross was undersized and couldn't elevate and catch a ball in traffic. He also had a drops issue. Billy G is doing a great job he just needs to get more talent to work with.

I'm not a fire-billy guy, but that's part of his job. I really don't think WR has been much of an issue, but I do think it could be this year. If we can hold on to Nelson, Heath, and add Guidry though, I don't expect it to be a problem long

[lamont]

No it's not. ignoring how far we have come IS moronic. THAT is you to a T my friend.

EVERYBODY in college football is breaking offensive records today. Any slapdick in a Spread offense would be breaking our school offensive records. Nobody just lines up in the I-formation anymore. Let me educate you Liver:

2002 SEC Team Offense vs 2016 Team Offense

Total Offense

1. 406.9...2016? 500.5
2. 403.5...2016? 467.0
3. 387.0...2016? 464.3
4. 384.9...2016? 455.3
5. 358.7...2016? 443.7
12. 312.6...2016? 355.5

Scoring?

2002? 2 teams eclipsed 30 ppg...2016? 9 teams eclipsed 30 ppg

Passing? 5 teams eclipsed 200 ypg...2016? 9 teams eclipsed 200 yards
6 teams had as much as 190 ypg- 12 teams in 2016.

Facts are Facts people. Everybody is breaking offensive records today.

[lamont]

It seems to me that EVERYONE is completely missing the point. We have a recruiting issue at WR but Billy G has proven how good of a coach he is by creating all sec guys that don't have an elite skill set. Derrunya ran a 5 flat 40 and couldn't catch with his hands extended and Ross was undersized and couldn't elevate and catch a ball in traffic. He also had a drops issue. Billy G is doing a great job he just needs to get more talent to work with.

We only had All-SEC WR's when we had an All-SEC QB. None before or since

[dawgday166]

I know- it drives me nuts when I see like a year or two out that we need a center and lo and behold here we are looking at possibly starting a guy that should be our LT at center.

Can we really not hire someone that can make a depth chart for Dan that goes out about 5-6 years so that we can see where the holes are? I'm sure 100% of MSU students could handle this and surely we can find someone on the staff- like maybe one of the recruiting specialists to handle it.

Heck- I'll do it for them if they want me to.

And of course when we do have a weakness at a position group it always seems to be dumpster fire proportions of bad.

Now why would a head coach actually look at the out years' depth charts??? That responsibility isn't in the 4.5 mill contract. ******

[Ifyouonlyknew]

We only had All-SEC WR's when we had an All-SEC QB. None before or since

2012 Chad Bumphis All SEC & 2016 Fred Ross All SEC with no All SEC QB.

[msstate7]

2012 Chad Bumphis All SEC & 2016 Fred Ross All SEC with no All SEC QB.

No tacos for you!**

[lamont]

2012 Chad Bumphis All SEC & 2016 Fred Ross All SEC with no All SEC QB.

How about those 2nd team SEC guys. Didnt realize- rarely look at 2nd team guys

[msstate7]

How about those 2nd team SEC guys. Didnt realize- rarely look at 2nd team guys

2016 all sec 2nd team...

Dobbs
Chubb
Kamara
Michel
Stringfellow
Oj Howard
Charles Harris
Lawson
Beckwith

Want more of these suck players' names?

[lamont]

oh its a good honor.

[msstate7]

oh its a good honor.

Misread you then... apologies

[Ari Gold]

Bigger question?
Why is Gonzo missing on so many WR with the offensive success we are having ?
This is what I hope CDM is asking him...

Sayin this I think Ross will make Panthers or some other teams roster and will be in the league for many years.

[ShotgunDawg]

WR evaluation is fairly easy IMO:

1. You've got to be a burner with ball skills

2. If your not a burner, you've got to be elite in the air.

3. If you are a tweener, you don't get drafted. Its where the Vikings made their mistake with Treadwell. Treadwell was a tweener that was pretty good after the catch but he wasn't fast and his YAC ability was mostly due to strength and body control. With NFL tackling being so good, that skill doesn't translate to the next level.

Ross is a classic tweener that lacks the speed or height to go up and get it. Bear lacked speed but even worse, he was just average in the air.

Look for lightening fast guys or guys that can catch the ball at its highest point.

[Bothrops]

Bear would've played in the NFL.

There were several receivers drafted that I wouldn't put in front of Fred Ross.

The draft is flawed like most everything else.

[gravedigger]

The draft is flawed like most everything else.

Only slightly more so than message board critiques of our sports teams.

[Irondawg]

Bigger question?
Why is Gonzo missing on so many WR with the offensive success we are having ?
This is what I hope CDM is asking him...

Sayin this I think Ross will make Panthers or some other teams roster and will be in the league for many years.

If Ross shows good hands in camp I think he makes the team. Look what drops did to Dupre's stock.

[msstate7]

If Ross shows good hands in camp I think he makes the team. Look what drops did to Dupre's stock.

What do the panthers plan to do with Curtis Samuel? Seems Samuel does a lot of what mccaffrey does. If Samuel is full time WR, it could make things tough on Ross

[SDDawg]

This thread is junk: Fred's drops last year cost him. It's no more complicated than that. Other guys have similar/better physical tools and speed without his drops. The Dak effect didn't help Fred, even though I think it should have. Maybe this will motivate him to work harder.

[defiantdog]

Fred Ross will progress in the NFL. How do you think Malachi Dupri feels? He left school early to get drafted in the 7th round. But there are a list of SEC WRs that went undrafted.... Quincy Adeboyejo, Keon Hatcher, Ricky Seals-Jones, Travin Dural, Gehrig Dieter (wasn't the best for Bama, but was productive). Not to mention several late round SEC picks that could have gone sooner. I also saw a stat where 1/3 of early entrants didn't get drafted (I know that doesn't apply to Ross, but it says something).

[Commercecomet24]

Only slightly more so than message board critiques of our sports teams.

Rep given!

[Madisonmd]

Only slightly more so than message board critiques of our sports teams.

TOUCHE

[BB30]

WR evaluation is fairly easy IMO:

1. You've got to be a burner with ball skills

2. If your not a burner, you've got to be elite in the air.

3. If you are a tweener, you don't get drafted. Its where the Vikings made their mistake with Treadwell. Treadwell was a tweener that was pretty good after the catch but he wasn't fast and his YAC ability was mostly due to strength and body control. With NFL tackling being so good, that skill doesn't translate to the next level.

Ross is a classic tweener that lacks the speed or height to go up and get it. Bear lacked speed but even worse, he was just average in the air.

Look for lightening fast guys or guys that can catch the ball at its highest point.

Thank you ... some of y'all think Ross and Wilson were draft guys. Ross was a very good college receiver. Same as Wilson.neither of these guys were elite at anything they did. Wilson had a bit of size and Ross was a good possession receiver. Possession receivers are a dime a dozen at the NFL level. A lot of those guys picked ahead of him have more upside even if their stats weren't as good or if they are coming from a small school.

I would take 5 Freds on states roster any day of the week. In the NFL that wouldn't cut it. Everything is about
Projectibility same with the MLB draft. You have your elite guys that go in the first couple of rounds. Then it is a coin flip. Am I taking a guy with NFL elite speed that struggled to catch the ball or run routes or do I take a guy that was solid in college but isn't getting any faster or bigger and has very little upside? I'm taking the burner that we can hopefully teach to catch the ball and run routes/get open.

[Dawg61]

Any slapdick in a Spread offense would be breaking our school offensive records.

Croom couldn't even break the top 100 in offense so he wasn't able to break any of our records despite coaching here after 2002 and Utah's coach wouldn't break any of our offensive records either. He hasn't had a better offense than Mullen in seven straight seasons.

[lamont]

Croom couldn't even break the top 100 in offense so he wasn't able to break any of our records despite coaching here after 2002 and Utah's coach wouldn't break any of our offensive records either. He hasn't had a better offense than Mullen in seven straight seasons.

Croom didn't run a spread offense. He made Les Miles look like Gus Malzahn

Im not sure why you keep bringing Utah up- but they have less talent than we do. However they are one of the best developers of talent in the country per Dave Bartoo. Top 15 in draftees without Top 15 talent.

[lamont]

Utah's coach wouldn't break any of our offensive records either. He hasn't had a better offense than Mullen in seven straight seasons.

Well- thats a lie

NCAA Scoring Offense:

2009- Utah 34th State 72nd
2010- Utah 23rd State 48th
2011- State 72nd Utah 74th (25.3 ppg to 25.0)
2012- State 60th Utah 75th
2013- Utah 66th State 70th (got us by 1.5 per game)
2014- State 16th Utah 52nd
2015- State 33rd Utah 55th
2016- State 56th Utah 60th (30,4 to 29.8- got them by .6)

Not that it matters- but Utah's scoring would have set records for us also

They scored more 3 of the 8 seasons- with us barely eclipsing them in 2 of them...not alot of difference

[msstate7]

Well- thats a lie

NCAA Scoring Offense:

2009- Utah 34th State 72nd
2010- Utah 23rd State 48th
2011- State 72nd Utah 74th (25.3 ppg to 25.0)
2012- State 60th Utah 75th
2013- Utah 66th State 70th (got us by 1.5 per game)
2014- State 16th Utah 52nd
2015- State 33rd Utah 55th
2016- State 56th Utah 60th (30,4 to 29.8- got them by .6)

Not that it matters- but Utah's scoring would have set records for us also

They scored more 3 of the 8 seasons- with us barely eclipsing them in 2 of them...not alot of difference

So since they joined the pac12 in '11, we've been better all but 1 year

[lamont]

So since they joined the pac12 in '11, we've been better all but 1 year

I would hope so. Their in-state talent doesnt compare to ours

[msstate7]

I would hope so. Their in-state talent doesnt compare to ours

Neither do the defenses in their conference

[lamont]

Neither do the defenses in their conference

Outside of the Prescott years- our offenses have been almost the same

[Dawg61]

Well- thats a lie

NCAA Scoring Offense:

2009- Utah 34th State 72nd
2010- Utah 23rd State 48th
2011- State 72nd Utah 74th (25.3 ppg to 25.0)
2012- State 60th Utah 75th
2013- Utah 66th State 70th (got us by 1.5 per game)
2014- State 16th Utah 52nd
2015- State 33rd Utah 55th
2016- State 56th Utah 60th (30,4 to 29.8- got them by .6)

Not that it matters- but Utah's scoring would have set records for us also

They scored more 3 of the 8 seasons- with us barely eclipsing them in 2 of them...not alot of difference

I said last seven years not 8 and I used total offensive yards not "scoring offense". The last seven years in a row Mullen has had an offense that averages more yards than Utah and you know why I keep using Utah so is that a bait question or something?

[yjnkdawg]

Only slightly more so than message board critiques of our sports teams.

Agree. Best post I have seen on this thread.

[yjnkdawg]

Ok

Best reply on this thread.

[lamont]

I said last seven years not 8 and I used total offensive yards not "scoring offense". The last seven years in a row Mullen has had an offense that averages more yards than Utah and you know why I keep using Utah so is that a bait question or something?

Well, Mullen has been here 8 years- not 7.
Secondly- scoring offense is more important than TO. The main objective of offense is to score.
Thirdly, while I believe Whittingham to be a good option- he is not the only guy that could be our next coach.

[Dawg61]

Well, Mullen has been here 8 years- not 7.


So you want me to include the first year he got here right after Turd Tanic got fired? Utah had a better offense in Mullen's first year. Not denying that or hiding it. KW took over in 2005 but I didn't include any of those years either. Maybe we should compare Mullen's offense while he was at Florida to Utah's offense from 2005-2008 since you'd like to include 2009. Sound fair? Glad to hear you're calming your tits on KW some now tho.

[lamont]

So you want me to include the first year he got here right after Turd Tanic got fired? Utah had a better offense in Mullen's first year. Not denying that or hiding it. KW took over in 2005 but I didn't include any of those years either. Maybe we should compare Mullen's offense while he was at Florida to Utah's offense from 2005-2008 since you'd like to include 2009. Sound fair? Glad to hear you're calming your tits on KW some now tho.

Mullen had the best RB he has coached as well as the best OL he has had in that 1st season. No reason it shouldnt count
Mullen wasnt the HC at Florida- so that would be dumb.
I only presented Whit as 1 option. You and the other girls got your panties into a wad over him. I havent cooled on him at all. Again- Whit is a defensive coach- but outside of Dak Prescott- his offenses have been as good as Mullen's

[yjnkdawg]

You really think bear and Fred were costing us games?

I will concede Fred had some big drops, but he was hardly our biggest issue or an issue at all imo


Some quarterbacks throw an easy catchable ball, like Dak, Damian Williams, Bo Wallace, etc. My understanding is that Fitz does not. It may be the spin of the ball. I'm not sure. If Fitz had been our qb going out of the spring game, then things may have been different for Ross. ..........More reps......

[Dawg61]

Mullen had the best RB he has coached as well as the best OL he has had in that 1st season. No reason it shouldnt count
Mullen wasnt the HC at Florida- so that would be dumb.
I only presented Whit as 1 option. You and the other girls got your panties into a wad over him. I havent cooled on him at all. Again- Whit is a defensive coach- but outside of Dak Prescott- his offenses have been as good as Mullen's

Frank Beamer first 8 seasons at VTech 44-47-2 (1 bowl win)
Dan Mullen first 8 seasons at MSU 61-42 (5 bowl wins)

[lamont]

Frank Beamer first 8 seasons at VTech 44-47-2 (1 bowl win)
Dan Mullen first 8 seasons at MSU 61-42 (5 bowl wins)

ok?

Frank Beamer was undefeated in bowl games his 1st 7 seasons at VT.

[Dawg61]

ok?

Frank Beamer was undefeated in bowl games his 1st 7 seasons at VT.

Haha yea he went to one. If you don't get the point I am showing you with Frank Beamer I can't help you. You're just choosing to be "get rid of Mullen" no matter what at that point.

[lamont]

Haha yea he went to one. If you don't get the point I am showing you with Frank Beamer I can't help you. You're just choosing to be "get rid of Mullen" no matter what at that point.

A) I'm not saying get rid of Mullen- those are your words

B) The VT comparision isnt a good one. They werent even in a conference his 1st 4 seasons. He also would have gone to four bowls under the current bowl structure- not 1.

[Dawg61]

A) I'm not saying get rid of Mullen- those are your words

B) The VT comparision isnt a good one. They werent even in a conference his 1st 4 seasons. He also would have gone to four bowls under the current bowl structure- not 1.

A) no you don't actually say those words you've just posted 10,000 anti-Mullen posts since we fizzled out at the end of 2014, it's beyond obvious you want him gone or you wouldn't be pulling your Stansbury moves on him

B) there's just not many comparisons that are available when you look at a coach that has taken a completely shitty program and turned it into a not shitty program. Beamer did it, Mullen has done it, who else? And by shitty program I mean really ****ing shitty like losing to Maine shitty and losing a game 3-2 shitty.

[dawgday166]

A) no you don't actually say those words you've just posted 10,000 anti-Mullen posts since we fizzled out at the end of 2014, it's beyond obvious you want him gone or you wouldn't be pulling your Stansbury moves on him

B) there's just not many comparisons that are available when you look at a coach that has taken a completely shitty program and turned it into a not shitty program. Beamer did it, Mullen has done it, who else? And by shitty program I mean really ****ing shitty like losing to Maine shitty and losing a game 3-2 shitty.

Bobby Bowden, Howard Schnellenberger, Bobby Petrino (Louisville & Arkansas), Spurrier (twice), Urban Meyer (Utah), Bear Bryant (Maryland, KY, TAM - much different era tho)

What kills me is Dan has seemed very complacent about addressing his deficiencies as a HC. He's got some strengths, but is stubborn about admitting his deficiencies and working to improve them.

The last 2 years the time has been ripe to pounce on those other 2nd rate coaches in SEC W (since Dan is 2nd best). Yet ... he hasn't come close to doing that. I don't expect him to beat Saban, but he should hold his own better than he does against the rest of the West.

[lamont]

A) no you don't actually say those words you've just posted 10,000 anti-Mullen posts since we fizzled out at the end of 2014, it's beyond obvious you want him gone or you wouldn't be pulling your Stansbury moves on him

B) there's just not many comparisons that are available when you look at a coach that has taken a completely shitty program and turned it into a not shitty program. Beamer did it, Mullen has done it, who else? And by shitty program I mean really ****ing shitty like losing to Maine shitty and losing a game 3-2 shitty.

You got to let go of the Croom abberation. He was simply a terrible hire and is no reflection of our program

[Dawg61]

Bobby Bowden, Howard Schnellenberger, Bobby Petrino (Louisville & Arkansas), Spurrier (twice), Urban Meyer (Utah), Bear Bryant (Maryland, KY, TAM - much different era tho)

What kills me is Dan has seemed very complacent about addressing his deficiencies as a HC. He's got some strengths, but is stubborn about admitting his deficiencies and working to improve them.

The last 2 years the time has been ripe to pounce on those other 2nd rate coaches in SEC W (since Dan is 2nd best). Yet ... he hasn't come close to doing that. I don't expect him to beat Saban, but he should hold his own better than he does against the rest of the West.

Look at the list of names you just compared Mullen's turnaround to. Bowden, Schnellenberger, Petrino, Spurrier, Meyer, Bear Bryant. Think about that for a second and then remind yourself that YOU ARE BITCHING ABOUT THE SAME GUY YOU JUST COMPARED TO SIX HALL OF FAME COACHES. Good grief

[Dawg61]

You got to let go of the Croom abberation. He was simply a terrible hire and is no reflection of our program

Oh hell no bro you do not get to throw out us losing to Maine, Tulane, LTech etc.. just cause it doesn't fit your agenda that we should be now suddenly winning and recruiting like LSU and Bama.

[smootness]

This is a dumb thread. Wilson and Ross were phenomenal for us. So they're not exactly what the NFL is looking for - they lack top-end athleticism. So? How does that translate to them not being developed?

Again, they were great for us. That is all we should care about. I would have loved to see either one drafted. But why are we using the fact that they weren't to go back in revisionist history and pretend that means they didn't do every single thing they did for us?

[smootness]

Oh hell no bro you do not get to throw out us losing to Maine, Tulane, LTech etc.. just cause it doesn't fit your agenda that we should be now suddenly winning and recruiting like LSU and Bama.

You got to let go of the Croom years, half the Sherrill years, the Felker years, most of the Bellard years, the Tyler years, the Shira years, the Davis years, and the Walker years. They are no reflection of our program.

[smootness]

If you throw out most of our football history except for the select few years here and there in which we were good, and if you throw out the best football player in our history who he identified, recruited, and developed...I mean, like, what has Mullen really done that is so special?

[dawgday166]

Look at the list of names you just compared Mullen's turnaround to. Bowden, Schnellenberger, Petrino, Spurrier, Meyer, Bear Bryant. Think about that for a second and then remind yourself that YOU ARE BITCHING ABOUT THE SAME GUY YOU JUST COMPARED TO SIX HALL OF FAME COACHES. Good grief

No ... I was saying it is possible to take a shit program and turn it around to something exemplary. Above 8-4 most years. They took shit programs and competed for conference championships and at time national championships.

[smootness]

No ... I was saying it is possible to take a shit program and turn it around to something exemplary. Above 8-4 most years. They took shit programs and competed for conference championships and at time national championships.

Sure...it is absolutely possible. All you have to do is identify one of the short list of greatest coaches of all-time.

[Dawg61]

No ... I was saying it is possible to take a shit program and turn it around to something exemplary. Above 8-4 most years. They took shit programs and competed for conference championships and at time national championships.

I know it's possible because our coach is currently doing it. You listed Florida State, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida and Utah as schools that HOF coaches have been able to turn into great football programs. Mississippi State isn't in the same stratosphere of comparable situations of those schools besides Utah. So basically Dan Mullen is doing more with less than 5 hall of fame coaches and some of y'all are wanting him gone to the point of bitching non-stop about it for over two straight years now.

[lamont]

Since 1992 when we began to finally take football seriously- we have been able to compete well in the SEC except when under a major NCAA investigation or making the worst hire in the history of the SEC.

[dawgday166]

I know it's possible because our coach is currently doing it. You listed Florida State, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida and Utah as schools that HOF coaches have been able to turn into great football programs. Mississippi State isn't in the same stratosphere of comparable situations of those schools besides Utah. So basically Dan Mullen is doing more with less than 5 hall of fame coaches and some of y'all are wanting him gone to the point of bitching non-stop about it for over two straight years now.

No Oklahoma in there ... Louisville is tho. I don't think there is much difference between Utah, Louisville, Arkansas. Utah probably the worst of those 3.

I don't expect quite those kind of results except maybe of the Petrino kind (I think that could be doable for Dan). Dan should certainly do better against the crappy Sec W coaches not named Saban. And I think every once in a while he should beat Saban too. Dan's record against ranked opponents ain't good either ... I think it should be better than it is.

And a plan for everything including how to have more than 5 serviceable Olinemen every year, what to do in all types of game situations like if you're down 2 scores with less than 6:00 on the clock, how to have a serviceable FG kicker every year, etc.

It do require relentless effort and strain tho. Ain't those Dan's keywords?