Pay Them or Free Them

[Reason2succeed]

The debate continues and I find myself in the precarious position of being on the side of Johnny Football. How hypocritical is it of the NCAA to sell merchandise minutes after a NC WITH THE LIKENESS OF PLAYERS ON IT but players can't make money of their own likeness themselves.

Exclude the argument of universities outright paying athletes. I get it most of you think that the players can eat their scholarship and put gas in their car with free books. Yeah, yeah. They now get a stipend. But why are they not able to sell their own image. If they commit an NCAA violation while doing so fine the university but taking away a person's ability to profit from their hard work is simply un-American.

[ShotgunDawg]

Because players being able to benefit from their own likeness will likely drastically alter recruiting. The larger the fan base = the more you can make off your likeness. Personally, I believe this would be terrible for MSU, due to us having a smaller fan base.

The counter argument is that the schools with the largest fan bases mostly already get the best recruits, but it would be a real, formal disadvantage for them to also have the ability to offer more financial incentives as well.

Furthermore, it's a slippery slope. Does Alabama or Ole Miss begin to set-up autograph signings, shirt sales, etc in order to coordinate their players to make more money than other schools? Where does it end? If players can make money off their likeness, then how to you control players getting paid in the recruiting process?

What keeps boosters from getting together & deciding to spend $100,000 on AJ Brown t-shirts?

Point is, once you allow players to begin getting paid outside of the jurisdiction of the NCAA, you may as well just make paying recruits legal

[WSOPdawg]

Because players being able to benefit from their own likeness will likely drastically alter recruiting. The larger the fan base = the more you can make off your likeness. Personally, I believe this would be terrible for MSU, due to us having a smaller fan base.

The counter argument is that the schools with the largest fan bases mostly already get the best recruits, but it would be a real, formal disadvantage for them to also have the ability to offer more financial incentives as well.

Furthermore, it's a slippery slope. Does Alabama or Ole Miss begin to set-up autograph signings, shirt sales, etc in order to coordinate their players to make more money than other schools? Where does it end? If players can make money off their likeness, then how to you control players getting paid in the recruiting process?

What keeps boosters from getting together & deciding to spend $100,000 on AJ Brown t-shirts?

Point is, once you allow players to begin getting paid outside of the jurisdiction of the NCAA, you may as well just make paying recruits legal

Or does Big Bama Bossman show up ordering 100,000 copies of a wall poster from a player and paying $5 or $10 apiece for them (i.e., paying the player $500k or a cool million for the posters)?

[ShotgunDawg]

Or does Big Bama Bossman show up ordering 100,000 copies of a wall poster from a player and paying $5 or $10 apiece for them (i.e., paying the player $500k or a cool million for the posters)?

This

The paying players argument sounds great on the surface, but, unless you implement a high school draft, it just doesn't work. It's an unintelligent conversation when you begin considering the unintended consequences.

NOW... If Bama, LSU, FSU, USC, Ohio State, Georgia, Texas, etc want to start a high school football draft because they feel that bad that their players aren't getting paid, then I'm all for paying players.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

The debate continues and I find myself in the precarious position of being on the side of Johnny Football. How hypocritical is it of the NCAA to sell merchandise minutes after a NC WITH THE LIKENESS OF PLAYERS ON IT but players can't make money of their own likeness themselves.

Exclude the argument of universities outright paying athletes. I get it most of you think that the players can eat their scholarship and put gas in their car with free books. Yeah, yeah. They now get a stipend. But why are they not able to sell their own image. If they commit an NCAA violation while doing so fine the university but taking away a person's ability to profit from their hard work is simply un-American.

Who is taking that away? They have every right to go straight to work out of high school and profit off their hard work, but they chose to go to school where there are certain rules that they agreed to when they sign their scholarship. Hell, the NCAA is giving them an opportunity to train and promote themselves on another level that most will never have. Once you play a sport in college and you don't burn any bridges while you are there, you have an unlimited network of people and opportunities to take advantage of after the playing days are over. Plus, as others have said, it may sound great, but it's just not that simple. It would take millions upon millions to get staffs in place around the country for compliance, taxes, and who knows what else will be needed.

That said, there are plenty of other bs NCAA rules that should be addressed before this is even on the table.

[blacklistedbully]

Every response here has been spot-on! Good job, Gun, WSOP & IDE.

[Bully13]

ShotgunDawg is right. Too much of an advantage for bigger schools. The exploitation argument is legit but it's just the price they have to pay to keep some degree of fairness in crootin. The big boys already have a huge advantage, can't have that gap widened with other money sources.

[Quaoarsking]

Just have a salary cap and let it be known that anyone who tries to violate it under the table will go to federal prison for tax evasion.

Boom, solved.

[blacklistedbully]

And we should not discount the value of free tuition, medical, housing, meals, etc to go with the coaching and the opportunity for some to get qualified for a professional career in sports.

And they get all of this in exchange for playing a sport they love....continuing the thing they've done for years for free...without the aforementioned benefits.

Yes, the school and the NCAA benefits. That's part of the reason they are able to provide the facilities and quality of coaching, etc. Just becasue they profit, that doesn't mean the student-athlete should have profit-sharing.

Also, not all schools make money, and almost everyone loses in some of their sports. How do you pay one sport's athletes, but not pay the others? And if you start doing that...watch how many sports programs get cut out entirely.

[Mimi's Babies]

Because players being able to benefit from their own likeness will likely drastically alter recruiting. The larger the fan base = the more you can make off your likeness. Personally, I believe this would be terrible for MSU, due to us having a smaller fan base.

The counter argument is that the schools with the largest fan bases mostly already get the best recruits, but it would be a real, formal disadvantage for them to also have the ability to offer more financial incentives as well.

Furthermore, it's a slippery slope. Does Alabama or Ole Miss begin to set-up autograph signings, shirt sales, etc in order to coordinate their players to make more money than other schools? Where does it end? If players can make money off their likeness, then how to you control players getting paid in the recruiting process?

What keeps boosters from getting together & deciding to spend $100,000 on AJ Brown t-shirts?

Point is, once you allow players to begin getting paid outside of the jurisdiction of the NCAA, you may as well just make paying recruits legal

They spent more than that.....

[Mimi's Babies]

Just have a salary cap and let it be known that anyone who tries to violate it under the table will go to federal prison for tax evasion.

Boom, solved.

Do you think that the boosters at a certain college, issueed 1099-Misc. to the recruits that they gave all that money too? Did those parents pay taxes at 43.6% (fed and MS taxes)? All the money going under the table to coaches at certain universities where is there a 1099? Has anyone audited certain coaches TRAVEL LOGS at om?

[Tbonewannabe]

And we should not discount the value of free tuition, medical, housing, meals, etc to go with the coaching and the opportunity for some to get qualified for a professional career in sports.

And they get all of this in exchange for playing a sport they love....continuing the thing they've done for years for free...without the aforementioned benefits.

Yes, the school and the NCAA benefits. That's part of the reason they are able to provide the facilities and quality of coaching, etc. Just becasue they profit, that doesn't mean the student-athlete should have profit-sharing.

Also, not all schools make money, and almost everyone loses in some of their sports. How do you pay one sport's athletes, but not pay the others? And if you start doing that...watch how many sports programs get cut out entirely.

They essentially are on an internship for their entire 4 years. They work their ass off but how much is it worth to get a chance at the NFL or NBA? The exposure is worth a lot and that doesn't include the free education, books, clothes, housing, food, trainer, nutritionist, tutoring, and connections they make that normal students don't make. People talk about profit sharing but how many people show up no matter who the starting QB is. Bama doesn't stop selling out when Heisman trophy winner Derrick Henry graduated.

People say it is un-American when it is actually free market. The NCAA and the Universities have the product and the student athletes are basically employees that get paid in education, living expenses, and the possibility of promotion to the professional leagues. Similar to people on Wall Street getting coffee for the traders until they are finally allowed to trade. They don't get paid shit for a while until they have "paid their dues".

[sleepy dawg]

Just b/c you're scared of change and you can't figure it out, doesn't make it right. What is happening in college athletics is the exact same as the Jim Crow laws of the old South.

Schools, coaches, television networks, and corporate sponsors have made a fortune off of college athletes' hard work. It's time those players were allowed to raise cotton for whomever they please.

[Statecoachingblows**]

Just b/c you're scared of change and you can't figure it out, doesn't make it right. What is happening in college athletics is the exact same as the Jim Crow laws of the old South.

Schools, coaches, television networks, and corporate sponsors have made a fortune off of college athletes' hard work. It's time those players were allowed to raise cotton for whomever they please.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.www.complex.com/sports/2015/12/jay-bilas-interview/

Good read I thought.

[JoseBrown]

They are amateur athletes with all the benefits that come with that status. They can get paid just like any other athlete when they change their status to professional just like any other athlete.

[Leroy Jenkins]

The debate continues and I find myself in the precarious position of being on the side of Johnny Football. How hypocritical is it of the NCAA to sell merchandise minutes after a NC WITH THE LIKENESS OF PLAYERS ON IT but players can't make money of their own likeness themselves.

Exclude the argument of universities outright paying athletes. I get it most of you think that the players can eat their scholarship and put gas in their car with free books. Yeah, yeah. They now get a stipend. But why are they not able to sell their own image. If they commit an NCAA violation while doing so fine the university but taking away a person's ability to profit from their hard work is simply un-American.

No.

[Liverpooldawg]

The debate continues and I find myself in the precarious position of being on the side of Johnny Football. How hypocritical is it of the NCAA to sell merchandise minutes after a NC WITH THE LIKENESS OF PLAYERS ON IT but players can't make money of their own likeness themselves.

Exclude the argument of universities outright paying athletes. I get it most of you think that the players can eat their scholarship and put gas in their car with free books. Yeah, yeah. They now get a stipend. But why are they not able to sell their own image. If they commit an NCAA violation while doing so fine the university but taking away a person's ability to profit from their hard work is simply un-American.

They a already getting paid, and paid well. Ask any parent of a kid in college.

[JDog13]

Give me a free education and a spot on the team. They can make as much as they want off me.

[BulldogtheMS]

Well hell I thought this was gonna be TSUN's predicament...
Someone needs to figure up the yearly cost of:
Tuition
Meals
Gym membership
Personal trainer
Clothing
I'm sure I'm missing some but I can guarantee the student athletes are spending much more than a lot of folks make in MS

[Tbonewannabe]

Well hell I thought this was gonna be TSUN's predicament...
Someone needs to figure up the yearly cost of:
Tuition
Meals
Gym membership
Personal trainer
Clothing
I'm sure I'm missing some but I can guarantee the student athletes are spending much more than a lot of folks make in MS

That doesn't even take into account the advantages of having it on your resume. You think it is a leg up for anyone that wants to go into coaching that he played for a Division I school? I bet if you have Bill who played for Dan Mullen and Bob who hasn't been involved with football since he graduated high school, 1 has a huge advantage over the other guy.

It is just like any other profession. My boss has a helicopter and a private jet. I am sure if I went into his office and said I wanted part of the profits, he would just get a new Accountant. Football players are just in college for 3 to 4 years. Yes, the NCAA makes money off of them but they are replaceable. The reason I know they are replaceable is because they are replaced every 3 or 4 years.

[Mimi's Babies]

Well hell I thought this was gonna be TSUN's predicament...
Someone needs to figure up the yearly cost of:
Tuition
Meals
Gym membership
Personal trainer
Clothing
I'm sure I'm missing some but I can guarantee the student athletes are spending much more than a lot of folks make in MS

Books (they are high as crap, or mine were 20 YEARS AGO)
Housing (Nearly $10,000.00 for 9 months)
Tutors
Free transportation to and from football games, free transportation on campus and to the apartments with the FREE city wide transit system...
They enter other ath. games for free.... (THAT ADDS UP FOR SURE)

What more could you want?

At one time I guessed this would run well over $100,000.00 before all the increases of tuition in the last 5 years.

[Liverpooldawg]

Well hell I thought this was gonna be TSUN's predicament...
Someone needs to figure up the yearly cost of:
Tuition
Meals
Gym membership
Personal trainer
Clothing
I'm sure I'm missing some but I can guarantee the student athletes are spending much more than a lot of folks make in MS

Very good tutors that monitor their academic progress
Extremely good medical care
Opportunities to travel
That new new full cost of attendance money

They get better pay and certainly live better than most interns and co-ops do.

[tireddawg]

They should get a percentage of the sales, only after they've graduated & received they're degree

[ShotgunDawg]

Perhaps the answer is somewhere in between. Maybe they can be paid and have heavily regulated rules on where they can recieve that payment.

Things players CAN make money off of:

TV money
Sales from officially liscensed by the NCAA apparel
Appearances fees officially set up by the school


Things they CAN NOT receive money from:

Unlicensed apparel
Non- school sanctioned events
Autograph sales
Endorsements.

[Pollodawg]

Like Shotgun said, it could work, but it would have to be heavily, heavily regulated to keep a level playing field.

[Reason2succeed]

1) Larger schools already get the best player. Pay attention.
2) That's why there are scholarship limits
3) Just because something is hard to monitor doesn't make wrong to do
4) Capitalism says that you are worth what people are willing to pay you. If EVERY college is willing to give you a scholarship and other perks you are worth more than just as that scholarship and the perks

[DancingRabbit]

If they're good enough, they can go play internationally. It's the NBA rule that says they have to go to college (or do something else) 1 year.

Nobody is forcing anyone to sign an NLI.

[Tbonewannabe]

1) Larger schools already get the best player. Pay attention.
2) That's why there are scholarship limits
3) Just because something is hard to monitor doesn't make wrong to do
4) Capitalism says that you are worth what people are willing to pay you. If EVERY college is willing to give you a scholarship and other perks you are worth more than just as that scholarship and the perks

Capitalism also says you aren't going to pay more than you have to. They basically have the highest paying job of anyone in college. It is almost impossible to get to the NFL without getting the "training" from a college program. Going to the big schools like the SEC is also more valuable such as an ivy league degree.

[EdDawg]

Not only would the big schools get the big time recruits out of high school, but they would also get transfers from the smaller schools that couldn't afford to pay their best players top dollar.

I understand that's how it works in the business world, but you are basically saying that college athletics should be the NFL without a salary cap. If that were to happen then it would be the same handful of teams every year with a chance to win the championship. The mid tier (like state) and lower level schools would have no shot whatsoever.

I believe there would be a decline in viewership and attendance which is already starting to happen on a small scale, wasn't this years NC one of the lowest rated in awhile? I thought I read that somewhere.

On the surface I agree that compensating them would be great, but I just don't think there is any way to do it beyond what is already allowed.

[Jack Lambert]

The NCAA is being used as a minor league for the NFL. They need to set up a true minor NFL league or let high school kids be drafted and go through a summer camp to see if they can make it to the NFL. If not then they can go a JR college and play or something.

[sleepy dawg]

Benefits do not equal pay. You wouldn't work for a company without pay just b/c you get great benefits.

Many kids have their books paid for, rent paid for, tuition paid for, but they're still free to earn money. Football players are student works just like the guy in the computer labs who earn a paycheck.

Not to mention, many athletes do not have a scholarship, or not a full one. They pay their own way.

The term "amateur" is nothing more than a word or an ideal. College football is only an amateur because we say it is, but we're just calling it amateur right now because they say it is and they don't get paid. Amateur sports should have to do with how much those athletes train, how much the sport makes, and at what level they play at. Many college athlete's sport is just about their entire life while in school. Often times their putting in more work than most people at their jobs.

So yes, they get some nice benefits, but they work hard... damn hard, and often in shitty conditions, many hours a day. They perform their trade at an elite level where often times very few people in the world are better. College football is a billion dollar industry where the only true worker aren't the ones making the money. The corporate sponsors, the schools, the ADs, the coaches, the refs, etc. all get paid, and well, and the only people creating the product for them to even exist get none of it. How is this amateurism? How is a billion dollar industry amateur? Because it isn't amateur. College football is a professional sport right now. This would not be tolerated in any other industry in this country.

[Leroy Jenkins]

1) Larger schools already get the best player. Pay attention.
2) That's why there are scholarship limits
3) Just because something is hard to monitor doesn't make wrong to do
4) Capitalism says that you are worth what people are willing to pay you. If EVERY college is willing to give you a scholarship and other perks you are worth more than just as that scholarship and the perks



You think EVERYONE in this thread has it wrong and you have it all figured out?

[dawgoneyall]

The debate continues and I find myself in the precarious position of being on the side of Johnny Football. How hypocritical is it of the NCAA to sell merchandise minutes after a NC WITH THE LIKENESS OF PLAYERS ON IT but players can't make money of their own likeness themselves.

Exclude the argument of universities outright paying athletes. I get it most of you think that the players can eat their scholarship and put gas in their car with free books. Yeah, yeah. They now get a stipend. But why are they not able to sell their own image. If they commit an NCAA violation while doing so fine the university but taking away a person's ability to profit from their hard work is simply un-American.

No one has to play college sports.

[CarolinaDawgs]

Benefits do not equal pay. You wouldn't work for a company without pay just b/c you get great benefits.

Many kids have their books paid for, rent paid for, tuition paid for, but they're still free to earn money. Football players are student works just like the guy in the computer labs who earn a paycheck.

Not to mention, many athletes do not have a scholarship, or not a full one. They pay their own way.

The term "amateur" is nothing more than a word or an ideal. College football is only an amateur because we say it is, but we're just calling it amateur right now because they say it is and they don't get paid. Amateur sports should have to do with how much those athletes train, how much the sport makes, and at what level they play at. Many college athlete's sport is just about their entire life while in school. Often times their putting in more work than most people at their jobs.

So yes, they get some nice benefits, but they work hard... damn hard, and often in shitty conditions, many hours a day. They perform their trade at an elite level where often times very few people in the world are better. College football is a billion dollar industry where the only true worker aren't the ones making the money. The corporate sponsors, the schools, the ADs, the coaches, the refs, etc. all get paid, and well, and the only people creating the product for them to even exist get none of it. How is this amateurism? How is a billion dollar industry amateur? Because it isn't amateur. College football is a professional sport right now. This would not be tolerated in any other industry in this country.

If you think these athletes work harder than Jimmy trying to get in Med School all while on his dime you are sadly mistaken.

[turkish]

You wouldn't work for a company without pay just b/c you get great benefits.
If those benefits were sufficient for me to survive and thrive and if that situation was the best path to my reaching my ultimate career goals, then, yes, I'd jump at the chance to work for benefits only.

Some of you people can't see past the end of your nose.

[Cooterpoot]

Damn entitlement age.....everybody thinks they should get something. If they don't like it, don't play ball. Go be a normal student and see just how lucky you could've been had you played.

[TimberBeast]

Benefits do not equal pay. You wouldn't work for a company without pay just b/c you get great benefits.

Many kids have their books paid for, rent paid for, tuition paid for, but they're still free to earn money. Football players are student works just like the guy in the computer labs who earn a paycheck.

Not to mention, many athletes do not have a scholarship, or not a full one. They pay their own way.

The term "amateur" is nothing more than a word or an ideal. College football is only an amateur because we say it is, but we're just calling it amateur right now because they say it is and they don't get paid. Amateur sports should have to do with how much those athletes train, how much the sport makes, and at what level they play at. Many college athlete's sport is just about their entire life while in school. Often times their putting in more work than most people at their jobs.

So yes, they get some nice benefits, but they work hard... damn hard, and often in shitty conditions, many hours a day. They perform their trade at an elite level where often times very few people in the world are better. College football is a billion dollar industry where the only true worker aren't the ones making the money. The corporate sponsors, the schools, the ADs, the coaches, the refs, etc. all get paid, and well, and the only people creating the product for them to even exist get none of it. How is this amateurism? How is a billion dollar industry amateur? Because it isn't amateur. College football is a professional sport right now. This would not be tolerated in any other industry in this country.

If it's that terrible, why do they do it?

[BB30]

I think you are missing the fact that this is a choice they made. They chose to take a scholarship to play football in college. Therefore I don't think the University etc is responsible for "paying" them for selling a jersey with their number on it. These kids get a free ride which dependent on the school they attend is worth several several thousand dollars. Throw in what the others have posted ... tutoring, elite medical care, elite facilities, free room and board, books etc. Tuition per year alone at vandy is 44 k a year so essentially that kid is making over 60k a year for 4 years so yea hes getting paid. They get thousands of dollars in free gear and clothes as well.

They also get free meals for 4 years and now with the stipend have some spending money for outside of school. looking at NFL League Min which is 450K. College football players aren't far off. And they get way more than minor league baseball players get which can be as little as 1100$ a month.

[DudyDawg]

To be honest I'm not sure where I fall on this debate, but I'm sure about one thing: those arguing that they are being paid by getting an education don't understand how much of a farce that is. They don't have time for an actual education.

[DudyDawg]

Very good tutors that monitor their academic progress
Extremely good medical care
Opportunities to travel
That new new full cost of attendance money

They get better pay and certainly live better than most interns and co-ops do.

No free time.
"Travel" is sitting in a hotel waiting to play for 90% of the time.
"Tutors" doing their homework so they can stay eligible (not learning shit)
The extremely good medical care is there to treat issues that arise BECAUSE of the athletes. The care wouldn't be a benefit if they didn't need it, and they wouldn't need it if they weren't athletes.

[DudyDawg]

If it's that terrible, why do they do it?

Lot of them have no other way to get into college and are the first in their family to do so.

[Cooterpoot]

To be honest I'm not sure where I fall on this debate, but I'm sure about one thing: those arguing that they are being paid by getting an education don't understand how much of a farce that is. They don't have time for an actual education.

No, you're dead wrong. I've got two kids playing/played D1 ball and they both have no issues with their education, nor the quality of education. One is making a hell of a lot more money than me at 25 years old and the other is almost done in just over 3 years of college. Yes, there's a lot of time spent on athletics, probably close to 40 hours a week. But to say they can't get a good education is bullshit.

[Tbonewannabe]

No free time.
"Travel" is sitting in a hotel waiting to play for 90% of the time.
"Tutors" doing their homework so they can stay eligible (not learning shit)
The extremely good medical care is there to treat issues that arise BECAUSE of the athletes. The care wouldn't be a benefit if they didn't need it, and they wouldn't need it if they weren't athletes.

This might be the case for some but I had classes with athletes and they worked hard. Some might take advantage of the system and have tutors do their work for them but that is the students fault. I agree that they should get a stipend which they do now but making them employees would essentially kill college sports except football and basketball. It might not be completely fair to look at it that way but that is accurate. Football and basketball players want to get paid then soccer and wrestling students will lose their sports at the college level which is capitalism at its finest. MSU baseball would also be gone because 90% of the college programs lose money. There would be no one to play so I guess we wouldn't have to worry about losing midweek games.

[EdDawg]

If the athletes are paid where does it stop? Will the large high schools that have televised games have to pay players?
I know that seems a bit extreme for me to ask, but if the NCAA allows players to be paid the attendance will drop due to rising cost of tickets. Fans will begin looking to get their football fix watching high school ball and may open another box of worms.

[DudyDawg]

No, you're dead wrong. I've got two kids playing/played D1 ball and they both have no issues with their education, nor the quality of education. One is making a hell of a lot more money than me at 25 years old and the other is almost done in just over 3 years of college. Yes, there's a lot of time spent on athletics, probably close to 40 hours a week. But to say they can't get a good education is bullshit.

What sport did they play?

That's great for them, but that is more an exception than the norm. Especially in football/basketball.

ETA- not to mention a lot of guys can't pursue the major they want to because classes conflict with their athletic schedules.

[HSVDawg]

They essentially are on an internship for their entire 4 years. They work their ass off but how much is it worth to get a chance at the NFL or NBA? The exposure is worth a lot and that doesn't include the free education, books, clothes, housing, food, trainer, nutritionist, tutoring, and connections they make that normal students don't make. People talk about profit sharing but how many people show up no matter who the starting QB is. Bama doesn't stop selling out when Heisman trophy winner Derrick Henry graduated.

People say it is un-American when it is actually free market. The NCAA and the Universities have the product and the student athletes are basically employees that get paid in education, living expenses, and the possibility of promotion to the professional leagues. Similar to people on Wall Street getting coffee for the traders until they are finally allowed to trade. They don't get paid shit for a while until they have "paid their dues".

Exactly. And it flat out pisses me off to hear folks saying that free tuition, room / board, and full cost of attendance isn't enough. How many people out there carrying 5 or 6 figure student loan debt into their 40's would have killed for an opportunity like that? Thats not even considering the earnings potential associated with a college degree. Only about 5% of student athletes (at most) will ever play professionally at any level, so that goes a long way.

[BayouDawg]

You want money? Get your ass to work instead of going to college to play a sport. Athletes are so damn pampered. I'm sick and tired of hearing about how tough they have it. I can promise you none of these athletes are in want. They have no bills, get top notch medical treatment, amazing food, and a 100,000 worth of college education.

[TimberBeast]

Lot of them have no other way to get into college and are the first in their family to do so.

If you're talking about money, they can get student loans like the vast majority of other students in college. If you're talking about grades, if they don't have the grades they shouldn't be there in the first place regardless of sports.

[DudyDawg]

You want money? Get your ass to work instead of going to college to play a sport. Athletes are so damn pampered. I'm sick and tired of hearing about how tough they have it. I can promise you none of these athletes are in want. They have no bills, get top notch medical treatment, amazing food, and a 100,000 worth of college education.

I don't know, there have been quite a few that come out publicly saying they go to bed hungry because they don't have the means to pay for food outside of their meal plan.

[Liverpooldawg]

My son came up with something on a co-op that made the company a LOT of money. He got his regular small co-op salary (which doesn't add up to what college athletes get) and a nice entry on his resume. We aren't complaining, we are thrilled he got the chance to get the experience for when he enters the job market for real. The complaints about college athlete not being paid are CRAP. It's the way the real world works.

[sandwolf]

ETA- not to mention a lot of guys can't pursue the major they want to because classes conflict with their athletic schedules.Yea, I call bullshit on that. A lot of guys may not be able to handle the demands of both a tough major and athletics, but they can pursue any major that they want to.

[DudyDawg]

Yea, I call bullshit on that. A lot of guys may not be able to handle the demands of both a tough major and athletics, but they can pursue any major that they want to.

It's not bullshit. It happens. Players can't pursue a major because of time conflicts with class and practice.

[HSVDawg]

It's not bullshit. It happens. Players can't pursue a major because of time conflicts with class and practice.

If the classes for that major are only offered during practice times, they are excused from practice. Coaches can't make them show up if it threatens their eligibility. Thats why it falls on the coaches to schedule practices around class schedules. Not the other way around.

[PMDawg]

It's called "amateur sports" for a reason. They have professional and amateur, this is amateur. If they start paying them, it becomes professional. Unions, salary negotiations, trades, caps, etc. They already have that - it's called the NFL and it sucks. Ratings go down every year. If anything, just get rid of the rules about when you can declare yourself for the NFL. Go straight out of high school if you want. Let the NFL create and manage their own developmental league like the D League. Let players declare and test the waters and return, just like in NCAAB. There are many fixes that do not involve scrapping collegiate amateur athletics and turning them into professional sports by paying them.

[Quaoarsking]

Exactly. And it flat out pisses me off to hear folks saying that free tuition, room / board, and full cost of attendance isn't enough. How many people out there carrying 5 or 6 figure student loan debt into their 40's would have killed for an opportunity like that? Thats not even considering the earnings potential associated with a college degree. Only about 5% of student athletes (at most) will ever play professionally at any level, so that goes a long way.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Bernie_Sanders.jpg

[PMDawg]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Bernie_Sanders.jpg

2734

ETA - tried to insert a photo of Hugo Chavez

[BayouDawg]

I don't know, there have been quite a few that come out publicly saying they go to bed hungry because they don't have the means to pay for food outside of their meal plan.

That's complete bs. Anybody with sense knows that's not true. Maybe he spent all his allowance money on dope.

[DudyDawg]

That's complete bs. Anybody with sense knows that's not true. Maybe he spent all his allowance money on dope.

Yeah I'm sure that's more likely

[BayouDawg]

Yeah I'm sure that's more likely

I'd put money on it.

[Bama_Dawg]

It's not bullshit. It happens. Players can't pursue a major because of time conflicts with class and practice.

If it happens, its because the student athlete allows it to happen. Its an excuse. You can get any undergraduate degree you want and play sports. I know because my nephew played D1 football (not for MSU, but for a team that beat us this year), and was taking Mechanical Engineering classes all the while. The trick is you work your fall schedule light, and load up on coursework in the Spring and Summer.

[DudyDawg]

If it happens, its because the student athlete allows it to happen. Its an excuse. You can get any undergraduate degree you want and play sports. I know because my nephew played D1 football (not for MSU, but for a team that beat us this year), and was taking Mechanical Engineering classes all the while. The trick is you work your fall schedule light, and load up on coursework in the Spring and Summer.

I'm sure that's possible for a lot of kids and majors, but it isn't possible for them all. Classes aren't equally offered in spring and fall and the schedules sometimes don't allow a kid to do any major he wants. Also I'm guessing coaches pressure kids out of doing things like that or taking certain majors. In fact I know that happens to some kids.

Regardless, like I said I don't really know where I stand on the issue. I do believe pretty strongly that kids should be allowed to make money off of their own name though. Not necessarily making money by salary or any type of payment from the school, but I don't think they shouldn't be allowed to make a dime off themselves. I just find it ridiculous that the NCAA will market UNC championship apparel seconds after the horn blows with pictures of the kids celebrating, yet those kids can't do the same with their own image.

[Tbonewannabe]

I don't know, there have been quite a few that come out publicly saying they go to bed hungry because they don't have the means to pay for food outside of their meal plan.

This was a problem a few years ago but the NCAA did away with the rules regarding meals. They figured out that athletes need a lot more calories than the normal student and now the schools can feed them accordingly.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Does anyone know how much the NCAA actually profits annually? If the NCAA makes no profit and paying players came out of what the NCAA made, how does that affect the quality of the events they put on? Do they continue to reinvest the funds into programs and events?

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

This was a problem a few years ago but the NCAA did away with the rules regarding meals. They figured out that athletes need a lot more calories than the normal student and now the schools can feed them accordingly.

Plus, we have a Gatorade nutrition lab for our sorts teams now that create custom meal plans for each athlete.

[Dawgology]

Easy fix. If money is made from your likeness or image a standard percentage is placed into an account that is paid to the student athlete after they graduate or leave the school. Plus you're going to school for free so...a lot better than my $20k in student loans...

[Tbonewannabe]

Easy fix. If money is made from your likeness or image a standard percentage is placed into an account that is paid to the student athlete after they graduate or leave the school. Plus you're going to school for free so...a lot better than my $20k in student loans...

This could also backfire on the student athlete. They decide not to use your likeness and then you make it to the NFL and it damages your endorsement level. The more well known you are coming out of college = more endorsement money when you go pro.

[Bama_Dawg]

I'm sure that's possible for a lot of kids and majors, but it isn't possible for them all. Classes aren't equally offered in spring and fall and the schedules sometimes don't allow a kid to do any major he wants. Also I'm guessing coaches pressure kids out of doing things like that or taking certain majors. In fact I know that happens to some kids.

I agree about coaches pressuring, but in the end the student athlete has the decision to make. Whether or not he/she accepts the peer pressure is one thing.

On another note, can you please give me an example of a major where classes aren't equally offered? What major(s) are you speaking of? I know when I was in school at MSU, there were certainly some fall only or spring only classes...BUT they were taught in the 2 - 5 week sessions over the summer. In fact, I saved one year of school taking part 1 and part 2 of a class in the summer because otherwise they were only offered in certain semesters. My understanding is this continues today.

[DudyDawg]

This was a problem a few years ago but the NCAA did away with the rules regarding meals. They figured out that athletes need a lot more calories than the normal student and now the schools can feed them accordingly.

Didn't know that, that's a good start

[DudyDawg]

I agree about coaches pressuring, but in the end the student athlete has the decision to make. Whether or not he/she accepts the peer pressure is one thing.

On another note, can you please give me an example of a major where classes aren't equally offered? What major(s) are you speaking of? I know when I was in school at MSU, there were certainly some fall only or spring only classes...BUT they were taught in the 2 - 5 week sessions over the summer. In fact, I saved one year of school taking part 1 and part 2 of a class in the summer because otherwise they were only offered in certain semesters. My understanding is this continues today.

I had a class a few years ago where they only offered it during one time period in the fall semester and not at another time or semester for whatever reason. I'm sure it depends on the department and major, but it can happen.

[Reason2succeed]

It's amazing that the same people who don't want players to make money off their own name and image are also the same posters that get pissed when players leave school early. You say they can leave on this thread but then bash them when they do.

[Tbonewannabe]

It's amazing that the same people who don't want players to make money off their own name and image are also the same posters that get pissed when players leave school early. You say they can leave on this thread but then bash them when they do.

I don't know anyone that has bashed a player for leaving early unless you consider people saying Bear was dumb for leaving early because he didn't get drafted or picked up as a free agent. Most people that I know thought Josh Robinson was smart for leaving early because RBs only have so many carries in their legs and the NFL takes that into consideration. I understand Bear leaving in hopes of bettering his family situation. Another year might have gotten him more prepared to at least make a team.

I have no problem with guys making money off their name but there is a lot of different things that it impacts. It is a very slippery slope that can go from giving the guys some money to go out to eat or the price keeps going up to the point that only football and basketball are male sports at the university level with the amount of women's sports going down to the minimum Title IX compliance.

[Tbonewannabe]

Thought this was interesting since the NCAA is a nonprofit:

How are NCAA funds distributed?
Ninety-six percent of NCAA expenses benefit student-athletes at member schools through services or direct distributions. The NCAA supports operational expenses and student-athlete travel expenses for 89 national championships in 23 sports. The association also provides catastrophic-injury insurance coverage for all student-athletes and various scholarship, grant and internship programs. The NCAA and member schools together award more than $2.4 billion in athletic scholarships every year to more than 150,000 student-athletes.

The NCAA helps member schools pay for expenses related to the number of scholarships they provide and sports they sponsor. As a school provides more opportunities to student-athletes, it receives larger reimbursements. Every year, the NCAA provides almost $100 million to enhance academic opportunities and help student-athletes who need educational material, clothing and emergency travel expenses.

The NCAA distributes additional funds to Division I schools that are successful in the men’s basketball championship, since those programs effectively make basketball revenue possible. Division I conference grants are provided to help develop athletics administrators and coaches.

Division II and III also have smaller distribution and grant programs currently totaling about $15 million.

[HSVDawg]

I had a class a few years ago where they only offered it during one time period in the fall semester and not at another time or semester for whatever reason. I'm sure it depends on the department and major, but it can happen.

That absolutely happens, but those "one time" classes always are offered during core class hours (8 AM - 12 PM). There is absolutely never a time where a class is only offered in one semester in one time slot and that time slot is like 4 PM on MWF. Literally never happens. That type of thing could never affect attendance at practice or workouts, as those take place early in the morning and in the evening.

[DesiignerDawg]

I just hate the player likeness stuff because I design and sell shirts. I put up some Leo Lewis "Hugh Hate Me" shirts for pre-order on my site and was told that it was player likeness. Bad part is that it didn't have his name, nor could you see his face. Just a player with the number 44 jersey that said Hugh Hate Me where the name was. I missed out on some money because of the possibility of me giving him some of the profits I guess.