Buy or Sell: 2017 Rooker > 2013 Renfroe

[DeviousDawg]

I'm buying.

[Shake 'n Bake]

Buying at the moment, but renfroe was pretty damn dominant at this point in that season.

[Cloak]

Sell for now

[bulldogcountry1]

Soft sell.

Renfroe had to use an adidas bat.

[msstate7]

Soft sell.

Renfroe had to use an adidas bat.

And more importantly a pitcher's ball

[Perpetual Underachiever]

Buy. YTD this is arguably the best offensive performance ever by a Dawg.

[HSVDawg]

Big sell.

1) Different ball in 2013 that was much more friendly to pitchers
2) Renfroe was / is a MUCH better defender.

[Shake 'n Bake]

Depends on how much difference you think the ball makes:
Rooker 14 doubles 3 triples 8 homers and a 432 average in 26 games
Renfroe 16 doubles 3 triples 16 homers and a 345 average in 66 games

[missouridawg]

Buy. YTD this is arguably the best offensive performance ever by a Dawg.


Actually, Renfroes and Rookers numbers were practically identical through the same number of games in their big seasons, at this point. Renfroe had 1 more homer. Rooker had an RBI or two more. Rooker had more SBs.

[BayouDawg]

Sell. Renfroe is a 5 tool player. As they mentioned over and over again in the CWS.

[fader2103]

Didn't we move the fences in recently also? I could be off

[preachermatt83]

Buy all day... for 1 big reason... Renfroe k'd a ton. Rooked is not K'ing as much.

[Todd4State]

If you are talking about from a MLB draft standpoint I think you take Renfroe. From a college player standpoint I think you maybe take Rooker depending on how he finishes. It's kind of apples and oranges comparing a right fielder to a first baseman especially from a defensive standpoint. I'm not quite sure that Rooker is a first round pick yet but he could certainly get there if he continues to play well in SEC play.

[BeardoMSU]

Sell. Renfroe is a 5 tool player. As they mentioned over and over again in the CWS.

Did you know Wes Rae was recruited to play OL in football?!?!****

[dawgday166]

Big sell.

1) Different ball in 2013 that was much more friendly to pitchers
2) Renfroe was / is a MUCH better defender.

This right here. Renfroe was 5 tool player as posted above.

A RF that has power, can hit for average, can steal and run the bases, with a rocket arm is much more valuable (all day every day and twice on Sunday) than a 1B that has similar or slightly superior hitting stats. Renfroe saved runs on D. Added runs with his base running. His entire play on both O & D put pressure on the other team.

Lots of folks can play 1B. If someone is a helluva a hitter but average on D they get drafted and play 1B usually (which is probably why Rooker is playing 1B). However, there's a very limited number of upper echelon RFs that can track down balls in the RF corner then gun down runners from the RF corner warning track. And when a RF does something like that, it usually pumps the whole team up too.

Rooker is a good hitter and thought so last year. But his D and base running isn't anywhere close to Renfroe. Excellent base running gets you extra runs frequently too. Rooker last year was a little bit of a liability on the base paths. Renfroe doesn't get pulled in the 8th or 9th for a pinch runner.

Rooker hitting better as of now than Renfroe's entire year. Rooker hasn't gone through the entire year yet. He'd have to really put up some very large numbers tho for me to consider him a better take than Renfroe. Rooker is also K'ing at a higher percentage than Renfroe (21.8% vs 16.8%).

Then there is the hitter friendlier ball/bat advantage Rooker has too.

[lamont]

The question is 2017 Rooker > 2013 Renfroe- its not who has the highest draft position.

Right now there is no doubt that it is Rooker. Rooker is putting together one of the best seasons in State history right now. Can he keep it up? We'll see.

[dawgday166]

The question is 2017 Rooker > 2013 Renfroe- its not who has the highest draft position.

Right now there is no doubt that it is Rooker. Rooker is putting together one of the best seasons in State history right now. Can he keep it up? We'll see.

Don't agree there is "no doubt" if you look at the complete package. While I didn't calculate OB%, Slg%, or OPS ... at same point in 2013 season Renfroe was batting .436 with 9 homers in 82 ABs if I counted correctly. Renfroe had a higher batting avg and more homers in 14 less ABs. Didn't see a K (or SO) category per game, but for season Renfroe K'd at lower rate than Rooker currently is. And all this when the bat/ball combo was pitcher friendly too.

And then you have defense and base running.

[msstate7]

Sec games only stats so far...
HR: .333/.457/.613
BR: .455/.519/1.045

Obviously hunter's stats are for a complete schedule and rooker is just getting started, so I wouldn't take much from this just yet. If we wanna continue this discussion thru the year though, these are the stats I'd look at. If the stats are pretty close at the end, hunter had a better year considering the difference in ball

[msstate7]

Don't agree there is "no doubt" if you look at the complete package. While I didn't calculate OB%, Slg%, or OPS ... at same point in 2013 season Renfroe was batting .436 with 9 homers in 82 ABs if I counted correctly. Renfroe had a higher batting avg and more homers in 14 less ABs. Didn't see a K (or SO) category per game, but for season Renfroe K'd at lower rate than Rooker currently is. And all this when the bat/ball combo was pitcher friendly too.

And then you have defense and base running.

No one does WAR stat for college, but I'd suspect hunter would be higher

[dawgday166]

Sec games only stats so far...
HR: .333/.457/.613
BR: .455/.519/1.045

Obviously hunter's stats are for a complete schedule and rooker is just getting started, so I wouldn't take much from this just yet. If we wanna continue this discussion thru the year though, these are the stats I'd look at. If the stats are pretty close at the end, hunter had a better year considering the difference in ball

Renfroe thru 6 SEC games (LSU & KY): .428/.552/1.048

I like both of these guys. But IMO the edge either way is slight and I lean toward Renfroe ... especially when taking into account the ball/bat combo.

ETA: So I will go ahead and say it ... RP was wrong LOL. I'll now sit back and wait for the forthcoming stern rebuttal *****

[lamont]

We'll see

Renfroe had 8 assists and 5 errors- Rooker already has 5 assists and only 1 error to this point

Rooker is going to steal twice as many bases as Renfroe
Renfroe had Big Boy hitting behind him- Rooker has had Cody Brown until his recent move
Slugging? Right now Rook is at .885- Renfroe finished at .620
OBP? Rooker is at .521- Renfroe finished at .431

We can go on- but right now it's clearly Rooker playing on a lesser team. Lots more ball to be played though this year. Will be fun to watch it play out

[dawgday166]

We'll see

Renfroe had 8 assists and 5 errors- Rooker already has 5 assists and only 1 error to this point

Rooker is going to steal twice as many bases as Renfroe
Renfroe had Big Boy hitting behind him- Rooker has had Cody Brown until his recent move
Slugging? Right now Rook is at .885- Renfroe finished at .620
OBP? Rooker is at .521- Renfroe finished at .431

We can go on- but right now it's clearly Rooker playing on a lesser team. Lots more ball to be played though this year. Will be fun to watch it play out

Renfroe was playing RF not 1B. He automatically should have more errors, but also more assists.

I'll give you stolen bases ... he was 2 of 3 last year. Didn't realize he had improved that so much. Seems he's worked on his base running some.
I'll also give you he's playing on a lesser team.

I didn't give you OB% or Slg% for season so far with Renfroe, but Renfroe leads Rooker thru 6 SEC games, 3 or which were against LSU.

If you wanted to be a good guy, you might consider giving me the ball/bat combo argument *****

[smootness]

Buy all day... for 1 big reason... Renfroe k'd a ton. Rooked is not K'ing as much.

Renfroe K'd 43 times in 304 PAs - 14%

Rooker has K'd 20 times in 114 PAs - 17.5%

[lamont]

Rooker has played at least half this season's games in RF

[dawgday166]

Rooker has played at least half this season's games in RF

Ok. From reading the board I was under impression he was permanent 1B. I haven't watched any games this year. That would explain why his assists are as high as they are then. I thought those seemed high to me.

I am somewhat going on what I saw last year relative to his base running (not just base stealing either) and D. He may have improved both dramatically maybe.

[smootness]

Ok. From reading the board I was under impression he was permanent 1B. I haven't watched any games this year. That would explain why his assists are as high as they are then. I thought those seemed high to me.

I am somewhat going on what I saw last year relative to his base running (not just base stealing either) and D. He may have improved both dramatically maybe.

You rack up far more assists at 1B than you do in the OF.

[dawgday166]

You rack up far more assists at 1B than you do in the OF.

Well ... I couldn't remember is an assist was recorded for every out at first. I was thinking not and am wrong I'm guessing. In that case I would think Rooker's assists would be much higher. Or my perception of number of assists for a 1B is off. I almost have never paid attention to 1Bs defensive stats.

[maroonmania]

From a single season hitting standpoint it has to be Rooker at least to this point of the season. If the season ended today I believe he would win the SEC triple crown. Don't believe that has been done since Raffy did it in '84. And with the triple crown that has everyone pitching and hitting the same baseballs with similar bats. Now if you take into account who is the best overall player from a complete package standpoint well then Renfroe is definitely the better defender and baserunner. However looking at it that way its really not a single season thing because Renfroe was and is a great defender and a plus baserunner every season.

[lamont]

You rack up far more assists at 1B than you do in the OF.

You also rack up more chances to make errors

[smootness]

You also rack up more chances to make errors

Did I say you don't?

I'm not that interested in error numbers, though.

[smootness]

Well ... I couldn't remember is an assist was recorded for every out at first. I was thinking not and am wrong I'm guessing. In that case I would think Rooker's assists would be much higher. Or my perception of number of assists for a 1B is off. I almost have never paid attention to 1Bs defensive stats.

An assist is not recorded for a 1B for every out at first. But it is recorded for every time a 1B field a ball and then tosses to 1B with a pitcher covering or any other base to make an out. OF assist numbers will always be low, in the single or low double digits generally (for MLB). A 1B will rack up more than 100 assists routinely.

[dawgday166]

An assist is not recorded for a 1B for every out at first. But it is recorded for every time a 1B field a ball and then tosses to 1B with a pitcher covering or any other base to make an out. OF assist numbers will always be low, in the single or low double digits generally (for MLB). A 1B will rack up more than 100 assists routinely.

Trying to work while I respond and didn't think this one through enough. I don't generally pay that much attention to defensive stats except fielding percentage and outfielder assists maybe, but even those not so much. I generally go by the eyeball test.

Going by eyeball test (based on my memory of Renfroe and Rooker last year), Renfroe seemed like the much more complete defensive player to me. Rooker also played OF last year so that was my comparison.

My response relative to stats was sure off base tho.

[smootness]

Trying to work while I respond and didn't think this one through enough. I don't generally pay that much attention to defensive stats except fielding percentage and outfielder assists maybe, but even those not so much. I generally go by the eyeball test.

Going by eyeball test (based on my memory of Renfroe and Rooker last year), Renfroe seemed like the much more complete defensive player to me. Rooker also played OF last year so that was my comparison.

My response relative to stats was sure off base tho.

Fully agree on that. I think Renfroe was clearly more valuable defensively, and I'm not sure how anyone could genuinely argue that.

As for who had the better year, we'll just have to see how things shake out. Long way to go. If Rooker stays where he is offensively, it's him. If he slips enough that their offensive numbers aren't too far apart, I think you have to give it to Renfroe based on where offense was then.

But I certainly hope it ends up being Rooker. That would be fantastic for us.

[Tbonewannabe]

It will be interesting to see how it plays out but using Renfroe's season statistics is extremely misleading. Not only did Hunter have to play in the dead ball error where Ross Mitchell had one of the best pitching seasons in MSU history, he also went all the way to the National Championship game. That might slightly inflate his HRs and RBIs but would decrease his batting avg since he faced multiple pitchers that are better than most of the pitchers Rooker will see this year.

[preachermatt83]

Renfroe K'd 43 times in 304 PAs - 14%

Rooker has K'd 20 times in 114 PAs - 17.5%

Wow! I stand corrected. It seemed like Renfoe struck out all the time.

[BayouDawg]

Slightly off topic but I just got MLB The Show 17 and its pretty cool seeing Renfroe on a video game. We graduated from the same high school a year apart.