Holloway up the middle ran 4.31

[Leeshouldveflanked]

But we never were able to get him outside....

[thf24]

When he did manage to get free he got ran down by safeties and even linebackers almost every time. He's one of those guys with great track speed that doesn't translate to the football field.

[smootness]

When he did manage to get free he got ran down by safeties and even linebackers almost every time. He's one of those guys with great track speed that doesn't translate to the football field.

Holloway wasn't ever caught from behind.

[thf24]

Holloway wasn't ever caught from behind.

If not from behind per se, then players who don't run anywhere near a 4.31 consistently took extraordinarily good angles on him. One that comes to mind is his long run against A&M in 2014. He got through the front seven without anyone within five yards of him, should have been a touchdown for a sub-4.4 guy, but somehow he was run down around the 10-15. Couldn't find the highlight, maybe someone else can if interested. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong, but that's how I recall times he was able to break away going more often than not.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

If not from behind per se, then players who don't run anywhere near a 4.31 consistently took extraordinarily good angles on him. One that comes to mind is his long run against A&M in 2014. He got through the front seven without anyone within five yards of him, should have been a touchdown for a sub-4.4 guy, but somehow he was run down around the 10-15. Couldn't find the highlight, maybe someone else can if interested. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong, but that's how I recall times he was able to break away going more often than not.

How do we know the guy who had the angle on him & ran him down didn't run a 4.3 or a 4.4 with an angle?

[Beaver]

Call me naive, but wouldn't a helmet and pads have more of an affect on a small guy like Holloway than a guy like Fournette?

[SDDawg]

Because he can't extend a run after contact (any) and he doesn't catch the ball well. I'm a Holloway fan but his lack of production is not the fault of our coaches - he had every opportunity and produced very little.

[Political Hack]

Apparently he can't catch a screen pass. Or at least that better be why he didn't get any grown to him because there's no other excuse.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

Because he can't extend a run after contact (any) and he doesn't catch the ball well. I'm a Holloway fan but his lack of production is not the fault of our coaches - he had every opportunity and produced very little.

He produced so little that he led the team in all purpose yards Dak's sr. season and was 5th last year being banged up most of the year. I get saying he couldn't run up the middle, but to say he produced very little is pretty extreme. If 4-5 other guys had his heart, we would have won 3 more games last year.

[CadaverDawg]

Lol at 4.31, I saw a 4.29 for Holloway on twitter. None of those pro day times have credibility to me if they're saying Brandon Holloway is as fast or faster than the NFL combine record holder. That's nonsense.

Not a knock on Holloway, just a knock on 40 times in general. I've always wondered why they don't make players run the 40 in pads anyway...they going to be able to strip them off mid play in the league?

[CadaverDawg]

Call me naive, but wouldn't a helmet and pads have more of an affect on a small guy like Holloway than a guy like Fournette?

Yes, which is why a "4.31" guy rarely found himself behind the defense.

[thf24]

How do we know the guy who had the angle on him & ran him down didn't run a 4.3 or a 4.4 with an angle?

No telling of course, but I still think it's most likely, given that he had two rushing touchdowns his whole career, and a career long of 51 yards (on which he didn't score a touchdown), that his football speed simply isn't that great. You don't run into many sub-4.4 defenders at the college level, and a true burner who got as many attempts as he did should have finished with a lot more big play production than he did.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to trash Holloway in the slightest. I'm glad he was and is a dawg, and he had a good career for us despite being seemingly misused a lot of the time. I've just always thought that his supposed speed is a bit of myth based on his production.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Lol at 4.31, I saw a 4.29 for Holloway on twitter. None of those pro day times have credibility to me if they're saying Brandon F Holloway is as fast or faster than the NFL combine record holder. That's nonsense.

Not a knock on Holloway, just a knock on 40 times in general.

I mean the same NFL guys from the combine are at the Pro Days. I don't know why it would be much if any difference.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

No telling of course, but I still think it's most likely, given that he had two rushing touchdowns his whole career, and a career long of 51 yards (on which he didn't score a touchdown), that his football speed simply isn't that great. You don't run into many sub-4.4 defenders at the college level, and a true burner who got as many attempts as he did should have finished with a lot more big play production than he did.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to trash Holloway in the slightest. I'm glad he was and is a dawg, and he had a good career for us despite being seemingly misused a lot of the time. I've just always thought that his supposed speed is a bit of myth based on his production.

That's the thing about football being fast doesn't equate being good. It's not track rarely are you just running a straight line. He did have his fair share of big plays though.

https://youtu.be/ivLsDkTzVV8

[CadaverDawg]

I mean the same NFL guys from the combine are at the Pro Days. I don't know why it would be much if any difference.

Isn't pro day hand timed and combine laser timed?

[DeviousDawg]

Speed in shorts means absolutely nothing to me. Never once was I awed by his speed. Does this really change anything? Hope he get's a shot as a kick returner or something, but I have a lot of trouble seeing him making any kind of NFL roster. In fact, I don't think Chad Kelly would even touch those odds.

[louisvilledawg]

Lol at 4.31, I saw a 4.29 for Holloway on twitter. None of those pro day times have credibility to me if they're saying Brandon Holloway is as fast or faster than the NFL combine record holder. That's nonsense.

Not a knock on Holloway, just a knock on 40 times in general. I've always wondered why they don't make players run the 40 in pads anyway...they going to be able to strip them off mid play in the league?

He didn't break the record. He was still almost a full tenth of a second slower than the fastest. But go on with the borophyll.

[DeviousDawg]

Isn't pro day hand timed and combine laser timed?

It seems like usually you can atleast add 0.05 ticks to their pro day time. He would probably run in the high 4.3s in the combine though, but put pads on him and I'd guess a 4.5.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Isn't pro day hand timed and combine laser timed?

The NFL guys all have their stop watches at the combines are rarely more than .03-06 off. A lot of the scouts use their times over the NFL's for their meetings and scouting info. So adding that to his time he's still a 4.3 guy.

[CadaverDawg]

He didn't break the record. He was still almost a full tenth of a second slower than the fastest. But go on with the borophyll.

Thought the record was 4.29 but I didn't look it up. Not trying to bash Holloway, I'm bashing the timing system. I just find it funny how we never have a guy that wows you with their speed (except Fitz bc of his size), yet we consistently have reports of our players running 4.4's or less...which would make them in the top percent of the NFL in speed. It's just not accurate and makes me discredit all the times around the country

[CadaverDawg]

The NFL guys all have their stop watches at the combines are rarely more than .03-06 off. A lot of the scouts use their times over the NFL's for their meetings and scouting info. So adding that to his time he's still a 4.3 guy.

That would make him as fast as the top .05% of the NFL....I'm not buying it. He can't be that fast imo. Maybe the pads make that much difference though. Happy for him though...should give him a shot at some money

[Ifyouonlyknew]

That would make him as fast as the top .05% of the NFL....I'm not buying it. He can't be that fast imo. Maybe the pads make that much difference though. Happy for him though...should give him a shot at some money

LOL so the same guys who had their watches at Indy & put out their times are now at MSU with their watches & put out their times but you don't believe it? I guess. I guess I'm not that cynical. He was a track star in HS. Again track speed & football speed are 2 different things. I don't think anyone is saying he was a great player but he's fast on the track always has been.

[LC Dawg]

Pads are his albatross.

[SDDawg]

He produced so little that he led the team in all purpose yards Dak's sr. season and was 5th last year being banged up most of the year. I get saying he couldn't run up the middle, but to say he produced very little is pretty extreme. If 4-5 other guys had his heart, we would have won 3 more games last year.

Agreed that Holloway got some yards, but not enough for a feature back.

[Dawg61]

That would make him as fast as the top .05% of the NFL....I'm not buying it. He can't be that fast imo. Maybe the pads make that much difference though. Happy for him though...should give him a shot at some money

He's that fast. Holloway has gotten a lot of shit from a bunch of y'all for four years + now. Give the little dude his props on his speed cause he is fast as a mother****er and tougher than he is fast! No sense in making everyone put on pads to run 40 times if everyone is running with the same variables already too btw. It'd be a tremendous waste of time to make everyone put on pads and full uniforms just to run 40 times.

[CadaverDawg]

LOL so the same guys who had their watches at Indy & put out their times are now at MSU with their watches & put out their times but you don't believe it? I guess. I guess I'm not that cynical. He was a track star in HS. Again track speed & football speed are 2 different things. I don't think anyone is saying he was a great player but he's fast on the track always has been.

Yea, I'm saying if pro scouts are using 4.31 to clearly define Brandon Holloway's speed in football....then they should do away with the entire 40 yard dash, bc he ain't in the same league as the guy from UWashington, or a Brandin Cooks, or even a Darren Sproles in terms of game speed. Not even close.

But that said, If I'm him I'm riding that 4.31 to a shot at the league. Would love to have another MSU guy in the league, especially one as tough as that dude.

[CadaverDawg]

He's that fast. Holloway has gotten a lot of shit from a bunch of y'all for four years + now. Give the little dude his props on his speed cause he is fast as a mother****er and tougher than he is fast! No sense in making everyone put on pads to run 40 times if everyone is running with the same variables already too btw. It'd be a tremendous waste of time to make everyone put on pads and full uniforms just to run 40 times.

You serious about putting on the equipment they will wear every game to be tested in being silly? That's crazy.

I respect Holloway. He has heart and toughness. I just think his padless 40 is a poor reflection of his time on the field in pads. Sue me

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Yea, I'm saying if pro scouts are using 4.31 to clearly define Brandon Holloway's speed in football....then they should do away with the entire 40 yard dash, bc he ain't in the same league as the guy from UWashington, or a Brandin Cooks, or even a Darren Sproles in terms of game speed. Not even close.

But that said, If I'm him I'm riding that 4.31 to a shot at the league. Would love to have another MSU guy in the league, especially one as tough as that dude.

Oh no doubt but it's kids that do that every year in the combine who run a blazing fast 40 & jump up draft boards but on the tape can't play a lick. The combine has ruined plenty of teams drafts because they fall in love with #'s in shorts & t shirts instead of productivity on the field.

[Jack Lambert]

Pads are his albatross.

You would think the combine would be done in pads and running backs with footballs. Both slow you down.

[Dawg61]

You serious about putting on the equipment they will wear every game to be tested in being silly? That's crazy.

I respect Holloway. He has heart and toughness. I just think his padless 40 is a poor reflection of his time on the field in pads. Sue me

It's not crazy homie it's flawed testing when you include an uncontrollable variable like a football uniform into a test for just pure speed.

You don't respect Holloway as is evident by you continuing to talk shit about him for four years straight now.

[CadaverDawg]

It's not crazy homie it's flawed testing when you include an uncontrollable variable like a football uniform into a test for just pure speed.

You don't respect Holloway as is evident by you continuing to talk shit about him for four years straight now.

LOL

I don't respect Dan's playing him at RB for a SEC school for 4 years...that's for damn sure.

[CadaverDawg]

It's not crazy homie it's flawed testing when you include an uncontrollable variable like a football uniform into a test for just pure speed.

You don't respect Holloway as is evident by you continuing to talk shit about him for four years straight now.

Flawed testing? Haha

That's like testing a swimmer's speed while making them wear a suit and tie in the pool. How bout testing them in the exact same circumstances they will be performing the job you're testing them for in? There's a novel idea! Yet you call it flawed? Lol

[Dawg61]

Flawed testing? Haha

That's like testing a swimmer's speed while making them wear a suit and tie in the pool. How bout testing them in the exact same circumstances they will be performing the job you're testing them for in? There's a novel idea! Yet you call it flawed? Lol

They aren't testing for speed in pads just speed. They also don't make them wear pads for every other test. You want them wearing pads when they are bench pressing now too? Lol haha

[Dawg61]

LOL

I don't respect Dan's playing him at RB for a SEC school for 4 years...that's for damn sure.

Yea we know.

[sandwolf]

Holloway wasn't ever caught from behind.
He was run down from behind on a kickoff return against Bama last year.

[mstatefan91]

Thought the record was 4.29 but I didn't look it up. Not trying to bash Holloway, I'm bashing the timing system. I just find it funny how we never have a guy that wows you with their speed (except Fitz bc of his size), yet we consistently have reports of our players running 4.4's or less...which would make them in the top percent of the NFL in speed. It's just not accurate and makes me discredit all the times around the country

Game day speed with pads on and practice speed in athletic shorts/shirt are different. No doubt about it.

I have also wondered why they don't run the 40 in their pads.

[mstatefan91]

They aren't testing for speed in pads just speed. They also don't make them wear pads for every other test. You want them wearing pads when they are bench pressing now too? Lol haha

That would be quite a sight.

But I think the difference is that guys will never be bench pressing on the football field. They will be running as fast as they can on a football field though.

[Dawg61]

That would be quite a sight.

But I think the difference is that guys will never be bench pressing on the football field. They will be running as fast as they can on a football field though.

They are simply testing athletic ability, speed, strength, quickness, size, jumping, throwing power, throwing accuracy etc at the combine/practice day. How often do you see a quarterback throw a ball in an NFL game with zero defenders on the field yet they test all the QBs throwing with no defenders. It's the same formula for speed. They just want to know pure raw speed in the 40 time. That means stripping the players to wearing exactly the same thing (glorified underwear). Erase every possible other variable so that the answer you get is just pure speed. Brandon Holloway is 4.31 fast. He proved it already! Give the man his due and his due is that he is one fast mother****er!

[BB30]

It still blows my mind that he ran a 4.31. I would have guessed at best a mid 4.4s time. He just did not flash burner speed when he did get in the open. I love Holloway as a Dawg. Will do my best to never talk bad about a kid that put in the work and effort, kept his head down and didn't do anything stupid. He represented our school and football program well. That being said, he did not look fast on a football field.

[smootness]

It still blows my mind that he ran a 4.31. I would have guessed at best a mid 4.4s time. He just did not flash burner speed when he did get in the open. I love Holloway as a Dawg. Will do my best to never talk bad about a kid that put in the work and effort, kept his head down and didn't do anything stupid. He represented our school and football program well. That being said, he did not look fast on a football field.

I'm honestly shocked that you guys are so surprised by his time. He clearly had tons of straight-line speed. His issue is his size and lack of lateral quickness. But he clearly can fly, even on a football field.

[sandwolf]

I'm honestly shocked that you guys are so surprised by his time. He clearly had tons of straight-line speed. His issue is his size and lack of lateral quickness. But he clearly can fly, even on a football field.I disagree.....I just don't think that his speed translates to the football field. Watch the KO return against Bama from last year.....he is flat out run down from behind, and guys that run a 4.31 do not get run down from behind.


https://youtu.be/4jmphX3KT1M?t=498

[Dawg61]

I disagree.....I just don't think that his speed translates to the football field. Watch the KO return against Bama from last year.....he is flat out run down from behind, and guys that run a 4.31 do not get run down from behind.


https://youtu.be/4jmphX3KT1M?t=498

Lol he wasn't in full stride yet

[smootness]

I disagree.....I just don't think that his speed translates to the football field. Watch the KO return against Bama from last year.....he is flat out run down from behind, and guys that run a 4.31 do not get run down from behind.


https://youtu.be/4jmphX3KT1M?t=498

I'll just offer a couple things about that return:

1) The player who tackled him is Anthony Averett, who was an elite 100-meter runner in HS and an even better long jumper. He is an elite track athlete who probably runs a similar 40 time as Holloway.
2) Holloway had to avoid the kicker directly in front of Averett, while Averett is already basically at full speed.
3) Holloway, even after avoiding the kicker, isn't running in as straight of a line as Averett is. He starts on the inside of Averett and is already on the outside of him by the time of the tackle.

[HSVDawg]

When he did manage to get free he got ran down by safeties and even linebackers almost every time. He's one of those guys with great track speed that doesn't translate to the football field.

A great 40 time and "breakaway speed" are in no way correlated. The extra gear you hit when you are in the open field often occurs after 30 yards of running. Therefore, in a 40 yard sprint you don't see the benefits of it in your final time nearly as much as with good acceleration. 40-yard dash is equivalent to the 0-60 speed on a car. Cars with the fastest acceleration often don't have the fastest top end speed.

LaDarius Perkins was the same way. Good acceleration, good 40 time, yet got caught from behind many times due to not having that extra gear. By contrast, you have guys like Anthony Dixon who didn't have a great 40 time because it took him a while to get going, yet he was never caught from behind in the open field.

[sandwolf]

I'll just offer a couple things about that return:

1) The player who tackled him is Anthony Averett, who was an elite 100-meter runner in HS and an even better long jumper. He is an elite track athlete who probably runs a similar 40 time as Holloway.
2) Holloway had to avoid the kicker directly in front of Averett, while Averett is already basically at full speed.
3) Holloway, even after avoiding the kicker, isn't running in as straight of a line as Averett is. He starts on the inside of Averett and is already on the outside of him by the time of the tackle.Look, I am not disputing that Holloway has elite track speed, but if you think that his 4.31 40 time translates to the football field in the same way that it does for other players, then we will just agree to disagree. Jerious Norwood ran a 4.32, and I can promise you that he doesn't get run down on that KO return.

[smootness]

Look, I am not disputing that Holloway has elite track speed, but if you think that his 4.31 40 time translates to the football field in the same way that it does for other players, then we will just agree to disagree. Jerious Norwood ran a 4.32, and I can promise you that he doesn't get run down on that KO return.

Ok, we'll agree to disagree.

I agree Norwood may not get tackled there, but if not, it's because his ability to change direction and remain near full speed is better than Holloway's.

[Dawg61]

It's strange to me that Holloway running a 4.31 isn't celebrated on here for being awesome as it should be but instead it gets a bunch of detractors saying it's bullshit. Dude was an absolute class act and busted his ass for our school for the last four years. You try being 160 lbs running up against SEC defenders and never fumbling for four years (or almost never fumbling cause if he fumbled i don't remember it).

[BB30]

It's strange to me that Holloway running a 4.31 isn't celebrated on here for being awesome as it should be but instead it gets a bunch of detractors saying it's bullshit. Dude was an absolute class act and busted his ass for our school for the last four years. You try being 160 lbs running up against SEC defenders and never fumbling for four years (or almost never fumbling cause if he fumbled i don't remember it).

I completely agree with everything in this post. He was a terrific Dog and I hope he gets a shot returning kicks or something. I was just saying that I was baffled to see the number that low. 4.31 is elite of the elite just surprising that is all.

[TUSK]

I'll just offer a couple things about that return:

1) The player who tackled him is Anthony Averett, who was an elite 100-meter runner in HS and an even better long jumper. He is an elite track athlete who probably runs a similar 40 time as Holloway.
2) Holloway had to avoid the kicker directly in front of Averett, while Averett is already basically at full speed.
3) Holloway, even after avoiding the kicker, isn't running in as straight of a line as Averett is. He starts on the inside of Averett and is already on the outside of him by the time of the tackle.

Yep... Averett has run a 4.30... He's a terrific athlete....