OL draft picks since 2012 out of the SEC

[lamont]

Alabama- 7 - cream of the SEC
Texas A&M- 5- one of the SEC's best offenses every season
Florida- 5- 2 SEC East titles
South Carolina- 5- won 11 games 3 straight seasons
Georgia- 4- won East twice and contends
Missouri- 4- won East twice
LSU- 3- won in spite of Miles
Auburn- 3- won SEC title and played for NC, also played in Sugar...but SEC's most psycho team

clear divide in results in the SEC

Tenn- 3
Ole Miss- 3
UPig- 2
State- 1 (Croom recruit)
Vandy- 1 (and supposed to have another this April)
Kentucky- 1

UPig and Vandy have draft picks this April...State and Kentucky hoping to add to their 1 this April- State is holding out hope Justin Senior gets drafted in the late rounds.

The more successful teams in the SEC coincidentally have the most OL guys drafted. Sure there are other factors- but the SEC is a LOS league. You have got to have OL talent to match the amazing amount of DL talent.

[Human Meat]

Factual. I cannot get past the mental block Mullen has regarding this. Furthermore, he runs a run-based spread that does not effectively mitigate a bad offensive line. It's lunacy. But at least we beat Ole Miss.

[msstate7]

Clearly we've been the worst sec program since '12. Great point

[lamont]

Clearly we've been the worst sec program since '12. Great point

SEC West during that time:

0-6 vs Bama
1-5 vs LSU
2-3 vs A&M
3-3 vs Auburn
3-3 vs OM
4-2 vs UPig

13-22 vs SEC West

[Human Meat]

We are talking macro level here. Keep resting on your micro exceptions and stay blind. BAHHHH

http://cdn.countrysidenetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/how-to-raise-sheep.jpg

[msstate7]

SEC West during that time:

0-6 vs Bama
1-5 vs LSU
2-3 vs A&M
3-3 vs Auburn
3-3 vs OM
4-2 vs UPig

13-22 vs SEC West

So is it your position that we're just a different oline coach away from winning the west?

[Human Meat]

So is it your position that we're just a different oline coach away from winning the west?

We are 1 or 2 decent offensive line talents away. Hevesy is not a bad coach, but for whatever reason we cannot sign the talent. Blame who you will. I blame Mullen.

[msstate7]

We are 1 or 2 decent offensive line talents away. Hevesy is not a bad coach, but for whatever reason we cannot sign the talent. Blame who you will. I blame Mullen.

Take any position group you want and compare NFL draft picks with lsu and bama

[lamont]

So is it your position that we're just a different oline coach away from winning the west?

We are better OL recruiting away from at least being able to contend for the West. We have lost at least 4 SEC games in 7 of Mullen's 8 seasons. That gives you no shot to even contend.

[lamont]

Take any position group you want and compare NFL draft picks with lsu and bama

why just LSU and Bama? Why cant we include the entire West?

[Human Meat]

Take any position group you want and compare NFL draft picks with lsu and bama

See sheep picture. Keep eyeballing those singular data points and ignoring the trends. I cannot help you.

[msstate7]

why just LSU and Bama? Why cant we include the entire West?

1-11 vs them. We compete well with the others. If we compare well in other position groups, it brings credit to your claim it's just oline

[lamont]

1-11 vs them. If we compare well in other position groups, it brings credit to your claim it's just oline

SEC West draft picks in the same time frame:

Bama- 39
LSU- 32
UPig- 22
Texas A&M- 17
State- 15
Auburn- 14
Ole Miss- 8

[msstate7]

SEC West draft picks in the same time frame:

Bama- 39
LSU- 32
UPig- 22
Texas A&M- 17
State- 15
Auburn- 14
Ole Miss- 8

Subtract olinemen and it's...
Bama - 32
Lsu - 29
State - 15

The gap will widen significantly this year

[lamont]

Subtract olinemen and it's...
Bama - 32
Lsu - 29
State - 15

The gap will widen significantly this year

A) whose fault is that?
B) again- why not include the rest of the West?

We are a SEC West worst 1-11 against Bama and LSU precisely because of our OFFENSIVE LINE talent. It gives us no chance to win.

People keep trying to say we can beat LSU- but we have 99 yards rushing vs them the last 2 years combined. We arent going to beat them doing that.

[msstate7]

A) whose fault is that?
B) again- why not include the rest of the West?

We are a SEC West worst 1-11 against Bama and LSU precisely because of our OFFENSIVE LINE talent. It gives us no chance to win.

People keep trying to say we can beat LSU- but we barely have over 100 yards rushing vs them the last 2 years combined. We arent going to beat them doing that.

Take out bama and lsu and our record is 12-11 during your time frame. We're competing against the rest of the west. The gap between us and bama and lsu is clearly more than just olinemen... after this draft, both will have more than double our draft picks not including olinemen

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I've always been unsure about if we recruit by region or if we recruit by position coach. Obviously a position coach plays a big role either way, but can anyone clarify that?

[Human Meat]

Take out bama and lsu and our record is 12-11 during your time frame. We're competing against the rest of the west. The gap between us and bama and lsu is clearly more than just olinemen... after this draft, both will have more than double our draft picks not including olinemen

I want to win championships. Thus we have to compete again Alabama and LSU too. We can do it with improved offensive line recruiting, to go along with great quarterback play. See Clemson's blueprint.

We have to get better or we stay where we are. Depends on where you want to go I guess.

[msstate7]

I want to win championships. Thus we have to compete again Alabama and LSU too. We can do it with improved offensive line recruiting, to go along with great quarterback play. See Clemson's blueprint.

We have to get better or we stay where we are. Depends on where you want to go I guess.

I want to win the sec and national championships, but I'm also realistic.

[lamont]

The gap between us and bama and lsu is clearly more than just olinemen...

A&M, OM, and Auburn have beaten Bama in that timeframe. UPig lost by one point in '15 and hung 30 on Bama last year. We have only been competitive once and avg 9 PPG vs Bama under Mullen- its our OL that gives us literally no chance of beating them.

Its all about our OL and the lack of talent. We compete with the rest of the SEC because they dont overwhelm our OL the way Bama and LSU do. And when they do like OM in 15 and Auburn in 16- they beat our ass then too. I cant explain it any simpler

[lamont]

I want to win the sec and national championships, but I'm also realistic.

Then being realistic means we have recruit better on the OL to compete better in the trenches during big games

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Alabama- 7 - cream of the SEC
Texas A&M- 5- one of the SEC's best offenses every season
Florida- 5- 2 SEC East titles
South Carolina- 5- won 11 games 3 straight seasons
Georgia- 4- won East twice and contends
Missouri- 4- won East twice
LSU- 3- won in spite of Miles
Auburn- 3- won SEC title and played for NC, also played in Sugar...but SEC's most psycho team

clear divide in results in the SEC

Tenn- 3
Ole Miss- 3
UPig- 2
State- 1 (Croom recruit)
Vandy- 1 (and supposed to have another this April)
Kentucky- 1

UPig and Vandy have draft picks this April...State and Kentucky hoping to add to their 1 this April- State is holding out hope Justin Senior gets drafted in the late rounds.

The more successful teams in the SEC coincidentally have the most OL guys drafted. Sure there are other factors- but the SEC is a LOS league. You have got to have OL talent to match the amazing amount of DL talent.

Damn, Bama is averaging over 1 draft pick per year. I wonder what the total number of draft eligible linemen were during that time and the percentages of being drafted. From the looks of Kentucky's recruiting, their o line could have a few more guys be drafted over the next year or two. We should have Rankin, but who else has potential?

[msstate7]

During that time period, I'd also bet bama and lsu are by far the best in DBs drafted. When we struggled so much with om, they had what 4 DBs that were drafted or will be drafted? Our WRs not being able to beat the best DBs in the conference causes us as much trouble as good dlines

[lamont]

During that time period, I'd also bet bama and lsu are by far the best in DBs drafted. When we struggled so much with om, they had what 4 DBs that were drafted or will be drafted? Our WRs not being able to beat the best DBs in the conference causes us as much trouble as good dlines

99 yards rushing vs LSU the last 2 seasons...549 yards passing...you would be wrong

Dakota threw for 304 yards vs Bama in 2015 but could only score 6 points because we couldnt #RTGDF...or did you forget them stuffing us 2 times in a row from inside the 2 yard line? You would be wrong again

Its an OL issue...you are just refusing to agree at this point. There literally cant be any more evidence to support it

[msstate7]

99 yards rushing vs LSU the last 2 seasons...549 yards passing...you would be wrong

Dakota threw for 304 yards vs Bama in 2015 but could only score 6 points because we couldnt #RTGDF...or did you forget them stuffing us 2 times in a row from inside the 2 yard line? You would be wrong again

Its an OL issue...you are just refusing to agree at this point. There literally cant be any more evidence to support it

I've never said it's not an oline issue vs lsu and bama. I just think it's more than just oline. You guys think we're an oline coach away from winning the sec year-in, year-out... I think we're many pieces away

[lamont]

In our 2 losses to OM in 2014 and 2015:

284 passing and 254 passing

[msstate7]

In our 2 losses to OM in 2014 and 2015:

284 passing and 254 passing

'15 passing stats and all offensive stats for us vs om are a joke. They pummeled us in every facet of the game... we racked up points and yards once it was over

[lamont]

I've never said it's not an oline issue vs lsu and bama. I just think it's more than just oline. You guys think we're an oline coach away from winning the sec year-in, year-out... I think we're many pieces away

Stop going to extremes. Nobody has said "OL coach away from winning the SEC multiple times".....we are saying "improved OL recruiting will give us a much better chance to compete for the SEC West. Right now we have no shot"

[lamont]

'15 passing stats and all offensive stats for us vs om are a joke. They pummeled us in every facet of the game... we racked up points and yards once it was over

again- you said our WR's couldnt get away from the DB's of Bama, LSU, and OM- I'm showing you yet again you are wrong.

[msstate7]

Stop going to extremes. Nobody has said "OL coach away from winning the SEC multiple times".....we are saying "improved OL recruiting will give us a much better chance to compete for the SEC West. Right now we have no shot"

We've literally had a shot in the last 3 years with our oline coach. Dak's TOs get no blame in that game

[lamont]

We've literally had a shot in the last 3 years with our oline coach. Dak's TOs get no blame in that game

ok- if you are going to just throw out ridiculous bullshit I'm gonna have to bail out.

We went 4-4 in the SEC in 2015 and 3-5 in 2016. Thats a losing SEC record over the 2 years. In no way at all did we have any type of shot of competing in the SEC West.

2015????? we had 3 points at halftime vs Bama. LSU, and OM with double digit deficits...thats not competing
2016????? We scored 3 points total in the 1st half vs LSU, Auburn, and Bama....thats not competing

Auburn got to the Sugar Bowl in 2016 with a very good OL and good RB's. They had an average QB and very young WR's. The SEC is a LOS league and always will be

[lamont]

We've literally had a shot in the last 3 years with our oline coach. Dak's TOs get no blame in that game

did it ever occur to you that Dak turned the ball over more because Bama knew he was going to pass because we were basically no threat to run the ball? Makes it alot easier to play defense when you know whats coming

[I seen it dawg]

Yeah random no hope,with that one.

[msstate7]

Clemson 420 yards passing to 91 rushing (2.2 attempt) in champ game

Om 341 passing to 92 rushing in '15

Om 251 passing to 76 rushing in '14.

Unless you have zek, you beat bama by passing. You beat them with elite wr's

[msstate7]

BTW, with lsu having the 2nd most olinemen drafted during your time period, how many wins over bama?

[Bully13]

Clemson 420 yards passing to 91 rushing (2.2 attempt) in champ game

Om 341 passing to 92 rushing in '15

Om 251 passing to 76 rushing in '14.

Unless you have zek, you beat bama by passing. You beat them with elite wr's

Can't argue with that.

[Human Meat]

You are making my point. 2014 was our only decent offensive line since 2010, and we nearly beat Alabama (hint hint) made the playoff. What does that tell you? Without an offensive line you cannot pass either.

I think you are also missing a near fact that any football coach or player worth his salt with echo - the offensive line is the heart of your football team. They set the tone.

[lamont]

Clemson 420 yards passing to 91 rushing (2.2 attempt) in champ game

Om 341 passing to 92 rushing in '15

Om 251 passing to 76 rushing in '14.

Unless you have zek, you beat bama by passing. You beat them with elite wr's

Who is talking about beating Alabama? How about just competing with them???

UPig put 30 on them this year, A&M-14, and OM 43...we've only scored as many as 14 once on Bama

2015? Mid Tenn scored more on Bama than we did. Only 3 teams in the regular season failed to get double digits on Bama in 2015- State, Charleston Southern, and UL Monroe

Our OL doesnt even allow us to be competitive with Bama. We put over 300 yards passing on them in 2015- why? We had Derunnya and Ross. Both were All-SEC Wr's. So even when we have had really good WR's and the NFL Rookie of the year at QB- we still couldnt score on Bama. So obviously its something else on offense holding us back. Wonder whats left???

[Human Meat]

BTW, with lsu having the 2nd most olinemen drafted during your time period, how many wins over bama?

They compete with Alabama every year.

[lamont]

You are making my point. 2014 was our only decent offensive line since 2010, and we nearly beat Alabama (hint hint) made the playoff. What does that tell you? Without an offensive line you cannot pass either.

I think you are also missing a near fact that any football coach or player worth his salt with echo - the offensive line is the heart of your football team. They set the tone.

this all day

[lamont]

They compete with Alabama every year.

and had the worst offensive coordinator in the conference

[msstate7]

They compete with Alabama every year.

Yeah, lsu fans should be proud. If only we could hang a "we didn't he whipped badly by bama" banner like lsu. A loss is a loss to me

[lamont]

A loss is a loss to me

Until we upgrade OL talent- it will always be a loss

[lamont]

and there is a huge difference in competing and being noncompetitive

[Human Meat]

Yeah, lsu fans should be proud. If only we could hang a "we didn't he whipped badly by bama" banner like lsu. A loss is a loss to me

No point in arguing any further. I simply do not understand your mindset. If things continue as they are now over time, LSU will beat Alabama a few times. We will not. That is the end of the discussion, some folks will never get it.

[msstate7]

Delete

[BayouDawg]

Come on 7 you blast Howland when he is in year 2 but are still making excuses for Hev after 8 years. Something don't smell right.

[msstate7]

Come on 7 you blast Howland when he is in year 2 but are still making excuses for Hev after 8 years. Something don't smell right.

Blast em? I don't think I've blasted any coach. Now I'm critical of in-game decisions of all our coaches (Hev and Mullen included). During the offseason, I'm sunshine pumper for all our coaches haha

[1bigdawg]

Blast em? I don't think I've blasted any coach. Now I'm critical of in-game decisions of all our coaches (Hev and Mullen included). During the offseason, I'm sunshine pumper for all our coaches haha

All coaches named Hevesy.

[tireddawg]

Who is talking about beating Alabama? How about just competing with them???

UPig put 30 on them this year, A&M-14, and OM 43...we've only scored as many as 14 once on Bama

2015? Mid Tenn scored more on Bama than we did. Only 3 teams in the regular season failed to get double digits on Bama in 2015- State, Charleston Southern, and UL Monroe

Our OL doesnt even allow us to be competitive with Bama. We put over 300 yards passing on them in 2015- why? We had Derunnya and Ross. Both were All-SEC Wr's. So even when we have had really good WR's and the NFL Rookie of the year at QB- we still couldnt score on Bama. So obviously its something else on offense holding us back. Wonder whats left???

I know we were a better team than Mid TN State. So how could they put up more points? My answer would be, not only the o-line issues but the mental aspect of playing Bama. It seems our guys don't believe they can beat 'em.

I do agree if we had a better o-line, we could compete. It looks as if we'll have one of, if not the best qb in the league while Mullen is here. Just need to get that o-line straightened out.

[lamont]

I know we were a better team than Mid TN State. So how could they put up more points? My answer would be, not only the o-line issues but the mental aspect of playing Bama. It seems our guys don't believe they can beat 'em.

I do agree if we had a better o-line, we could compete. It looks as if we'll have one of, if not the best qb in the league while Mullen is here. Just need to get that o-line straightened out.

Think about this:

We had the NFL ROY at QB (who was 1st team All-SEC) and 2 All-SEC WR's playing against Bama in 2015- and we scored 6 points. So those 2 positions obviously werent the offensive problem. What does that leave Msstate7?

[tireddawg]

I've read this thread, & maybe it's just going over my head, but what is mstate7 trying to argue?

[msstate7]

I've read this thread, & maybe it's just going over my head, but what is mstate7 trying to argue?

Oline isn't the only thing holding us back from bama

[Maroon Wizardry]

to be fair that might have been the best defense in the history of college football... but yes our OL suck. We have had a few busts and a last minute miss with Lashley which is why we are filling the gaps with Jucos. I was also under the impression that Lashley wanted to play for money we wouldn't pay and then alabama cut a check at least those were the rumors... but that is not a path we want to go down.

[dawgday166]

Blast em? I don't think I've blasted any coach. Now I'm critical of in-game decisions of all our coaches (Hev and Mullen included). During the offseason, I'm sunshine pumper for all our coaches haha

Cmon mane ... you've questioned whether Howland and Cann has had what it takes, whether they'll turn it around, etc. Your expectations of 1st and 2nd year coaches not named Dan Mullen (and his offensive cronies) is mind-boggling to me. Hell you think Smart should be fired after his first year. I imagine you probably thought the same thing of Saban when he lost to us (Croom) and LMonroe his first year.

But you good dude anyway lol. Not trying to start a war with you here.

Personally ... I'm tired of losing 4 SEC W games every year and finishing 5th or 6th in W. And no ... I don't really care how much Dan makes compared to the other coaches in the west. His job whether he make $1 or $4.5 mill is to win those games.

[dawgday166]

Oline isn't the only thing holding us back from bama

I'll agree with this. WRs are killing us too. And Dan's RB philosophy of playing the most senior (not the best) RBs. Hell, our whole offense is killing us against Bama lol. And Dan is supposedly an offensive genius.

[msstate7]

Cmon mane ... you've questioned whether Howland and Cann has had what it takes, whether they'll turn it around, etc. Your expectations of 1st and 2nd year coaches not named Dan Mullen (and his offensive cronies) is mind-boggling to me. Hell you think Smart should be fired after his first year. I imagine you probably thought the same thing of Saban when he lost to us (Croom) and LMonroe his first year.

But you good dude anyway lol. Not trying to start a war with you here.

Personally ... I'm tired of losing 4 SEC W games every year and finishing 5th or 6th in W. And no ... I don't really care how much Dan makes compared to the other coaches in the west. His job whether he make $1 or $4.5 mill is to win those games.

I question all our coaches during the season. I slammed Mullen and Hev plenty during the season. I give our coaches the benefit of the doubt in offseason... if it doesn't work out, I'll be pitching a fit here haha

And don't forget McE in addiction to smart. I look at Florida and Georgia hiring McE and smart hoping to replicate Saban at bama as all the NFL teams hiring belichick assistants... one day people will learn it's Saban and belichick, not the assistants

[dawgday166]

I question all our coaches during the season. I slammed Mullen and Hev plenty during the season. I give our coaches the benefit of the doubt in offseason... if it doesn't work out, I'll be pitching a fit here haha

And don't forget McE in addiction to smart. I look at Florida and Georgia hiring smart hoping to replicate Saban at bama as all the NFL teams hiring belichick assistants... one day people will learn it's Saban and belichick, not the assistants

I'll buy most of that so far on coaching trees, especially with Belichick. I believe the verdict is still out on McE & Smart tho. Not enough data yet. That's my main point.

McE has won the East in his 1st 2 years. Not a super major accomplishment but he probably would've finished 2nd in West 1 or both of those years. We'll see what he does over the next 2. Losing Collins may hurt him a good bit too. He probably needs to step up his recruiting.

Fisher (from Saban tree) ain't too bad at FSU. We'll see if Boom learned from his mistakes at UF in next 2 or 3 years at USCe.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

A) whose fault is that?
B) again- why not include the rest of the West?

We are a SEC West worst 1-11 against Bama and LSU precisely because of our OFFENSIVE LINE talent. It gives us no chance to win.

People keep trying to say we can beat LSU- but we have 99 yards rushing vs them the last 2 years combined. We arent going to beat them doing that.

And in 2014 we had over 300 yards rushing with exactly 0 offensive lineman that are currently playing in the NFL. How did that happen ?

Us being terrible against LSU has a lot more with how we view that game than it does NFL caliber offensive lineman.

[msstate7]

I'll buy most of that so far on coaching trees, especially with Belichick. I believe the verdict is still out on McE & Smart tho. Not enough data yet. That's my main point.

McE has won the East in his 1st 2 years. Not a super major accomplishment but he probably would've finished 2nd in West 1 or both of those years. We'll see what he does over the next 2. Losing Collins may hurt him a good bit too. He probably needs to step up his recruiting.

Fisher (from Saban tree) ain't too bad at FSU. We'll see if Boom learned from his mistakes at UF in next 2 or 3 years at USCe.

Good call on fisher... yikes, how'd i forget him. I just really dislike McE and smart for no good reason tbh

[GreenheadDawg]

Oline isn't the only thing holding us back from bama

It may not be the only thing but it is the most glaring factor. I don't see how you can watch us get pushed around by a 2nd team USA d-line and still say that O-line is not the biggest problem with our football team

[dawgday166]

Good call on fisher... yikes, how'd i forget him. I just really dislike McE and smart for no good reason tbh

I'm somewhat aware of this. And Dan seems to be the man to you lol.

[msstate7]

I'm somewhat aware of this. And Dan seems to be the man to you lol.

I like dan. If you give dan McE's team, dan would be much more successful imo

[dawgday166]

I like dan. If you give dan McE's team, dan would be much more successful imo

So you think Dan would've not only won the east but beat Saban too?? I just ain't seeing it. McE's teams have been pretty decimated with injuries, especially last year's team.

Your opinion of Dan is much higher than mine. Dan has some really good qualities, but he real stubborn on correcting his flaws. I'm hoping we are starting to see some movement on those tho if he does indeed hand over D responsibilities to Grantham, and then get his O inside top 20 - 30 every year. We'll see.

[msstate7]

So you think Dan would've not only won the east but beat Saban too?? I just ain't seeing it. McE's teams have been pretty decimated with injuries, especially last year's team.

Your opinion of Dan is much higher than mine. Dan has some really good qualities, but he real stubborn on correcting his flaws. I'm hoping we are starting to see some movement on those tho if he does indeed hand over D responsibilities to Grantham, and then get his O inside top 20 - 30 every year. We'll see.

Let's see how McE does this season. Boom left him the 2nd best defensive talent in the sec... maybe the country. A lot of those guys are gone now and Florida has won with that defense. Remember boom got a bcs bowl early

[lamont]

Let's see how McE does this season. Boom left him the 2nd best defensive talent in the sec... maybe the country. A lot of those guys are gone now and Florida has won with that defense. Remember boom got a bcs bowl early

Fla returns 10 starters on offense. They will be improved there. They do have some defensive holes to fill for sure tho

[Pipedream]

1. Our OL recruiting has picked up some (it had a long ass way to go), but is still obviously lacking. I like the potential of this line, but it's all wait and see. I'm in total agreement that Hev needs to recruit better at his position. I think Mullen has made strides to do that.

2. If we're talking OFFENSIVE production over this timespan 12-16 (RP mentioned a lot of those TEAM achievements, but the OL is only able to correlate to Offensive play), State has been dead in the middle of the pack in that timeframe-ahead of every team in the East. Bama is clearly the class averaging an Offensive S&P+ of 10.8, A&M second at 20.8, and everyone else is bunched in the West from 26th (OM) to 32nd (State). Then there is a huge gap to the East teams-UGA/USCe/UTk-that average finished in the mid 40's.

3. In showing that, there's not a linear correlation between offensive line draft picks and OFFENSIVE success (although it's a small sample size of 14 teams). Now, we are last in our own division over that time span, but the difference between 3rd in the division and last is only ~2 points/game.

4. UGA and UF have a load of OL talent and picks in that time frame, but State has had (on average) far superior offenses to both of them, using the S&P+ (and probably most other) advanced metrics.

[HSVDawg]

1. Our OL recruiting has picked up some (it had a long ass way to go), but is still obviously lacking. I like the potential of this line, but it's all wait and see. I'm in total agreement that Hev needs to recruit better at his position. I think Mullen has made strides to do that.

2. If we're talking OFFENSIVE production over this timespan 12-16 (RP mentioned a lot of those TEAM achievements, but the OL is only able to correlate to Offensive play), State has been dead in the middle of the pack in that timeframe-ahead of every team in the East. Bama is clearly the class averaging an Offensive S&P+ of 10.8, A&M second at 20.8, and everyone else is bunched in the West from 26th (OM) to 32nd (State). Then there is a huge gap to the East teams-UGA/USCe/UTk-that average finished in the mid 40's.

3. In showing that, there's not a linear correlation between offensive line draft picks and OFFENSIVE success (although it's a small sample size of 14 teams). Now, we are last in our own division over that time span, but the difference between 3rd in the division and last is only ~2 points/game.

4. UGA and UF have a load of OL talent and picks in that time frame, but State has had (on average) far superior offenses to both of them, using the S&P+ (and probably most other) advanced metrics.

How dare you bring logical data to this pitchfork party.

[lamont]

How dare you bring logical data to this pitchfork party.

Thats actually not that logical

Doesnt take into account the different schedules and what not. We are the only one of the group that doesnt play a P5 team OOC each year- plus we usually play the weakest East teams most years. We have been very fortunate with our schedules

Tenn in 2012 when they went 5-7
Vandy in 2014 when they were awful
Missouri in 2015 when they were awful
SC in 2016 in Boom's 1st year and early in the season before they vastly improved with a new QB

Kentucky has been a turd until 2016 and when they finally improved- they beat us

[GTHOM]

Jenkins, Calhoun, Rankin, are legit SEC OL. Everywhere else I am concerned. We will be good enough to win 8, 10 or more every now and then with senior laden OLs but till we get better on the OL thats where we will be

[HSVDawg]

Thats actually not that logical

Doesnt take into account the different schedules and what not. We are the only one of the group that doesnt play a P5 team OOC each year- plus we usually play the weakest East teams most years. We have been very fortunate with our schedules

Tenn in 2012 when they went 5-7
Vandy in 2014 when they were awful
Missouri in 2015 when they were awful
SC in 2016 in Boom's 1st year and early in the season before they vastly improved with a new QB

Kentucky has been a turd until 2016 and when they finally improved- they beat us

Haha....what? Our schedule was still way stronger than every East team, including UF and UGA who as the OP mentioned have brought in way more OL talent. 6 SEC West Teams >>>> 6 East teams plus a P5 OOC every day of the damn week, especially the last 5 years.

[IMissJack]

I don't disagree at all those teams have had better OL and have done more than us. We have to get more from OL, more than any other position (traditionally). However, I would venture that AL, AU, GA, FL, LSU have had more of every position put in the NFL. If we had an NFL draftable kicker last year, we would have had a hell of a season too, considering the D was so bad. To be great, it takes a well rounded team.

[TUSK]

Alabama- 7 - cream of the SEC
Texas A&M- 5- one of the SEC's best offenses every season
Florida- 5- 2 SEC East titles
South Carolina- 5- won 11 games 3 straight seasons
Georgia- 4- won East twice and contends
Missouri- 4- won East twice
LSU- 3- won in spite of Miles
Auburn- 3- won SEC title and played for NC, also played in Sugar...but SEC's most psycho team

clear divide in results in the SEC

Tenn- 3
Ole Miss- 3
UPig- 2
State- 1 (Croom recruit)
Vandy- 1 (and supposed to have another this April)
Kentucky- 1

UPig and Vandy have draft picks this April...State and Kentucky hoping to add to their 1 this April- State is holding out hope Justin Senior gets drafted in the late rounds.

The more successful teams in the SEC coincidentally have the most OL guys drafted. Sure there are other factors- but the SEC is a LOS league. You have got to have OL talent to match the amazing amount of DL talent.

Stopped reading at "in spite of Miles", Knowing this thread is a big, fat troll.

[Pipedream]

Thats actually not that logical

Doesnt take into account the different schedules and what not. We are the only one of the group that doesnt play a P5 team OOC each year- plus we usually play the weakest East teams most years. We have been very fortunate with our schedules

Tenn in 2012 when they went 5-7
Vandy in 2014 when they were awful
Missouri in 2015 when they were awful
SC in 2016 in Boom's 1st year and early in the season before they vastly improved with a new QB

Kentucky has been a turd until 2016 and when they finally improved- they beat us


S&P+ is opponent adjusted FYI.

[Pipedream]

Another thing I'd like to mention is that I don't think our offense (nor offensive line) has been our inhibiting factor the last 2 years. It's been our defense. I think it was a combo of OL not being able to move the elite DL's + our D at the end of 14 that did us in. But since then our defense has killed us. From 14-16 in SEC games only, we are scoring on average ~5 points more than the league average (pretty good). Conversely, our D has given up ~3 points more per game than the league average. So, if we had league average defenses in 15 & 16 you're looking at wins vs LSU at home in 15 (lost by 2) to go 9-3, maybe LSU on the road in 16, Kentucky on the road, (and OOC-S. AL & BYU) to go either 8-4 or 9-3 in 16. We score plenty and produce plenty enough to win 4 or more SEC games in that timespan. Our D has killed us.

[lamont]

Another thing I'd like to mention is that I don't think our offense (nor offensive line) has been our inhibiting factor the last 2 years. It's been our defense. I think it was a combo of OL not being able to move the elite DL's + our D at the end of 14 that did us in. But since then our defense has killed us. From 14-16 in SEC games only, we are scoring on average ~5 points more than the league average (pretty good). Conversely, our D has given up ~3 points more per game than the league average. So, if we had league average defenses in 15 & 16 you're looking at wins vs LSU at home in 15 (lost by 2) to go 9-3, maybe LSU on the road in 16, Kentucky on the road, (and OOC-S. AL & BYU) to go either 8-4 or 9-3 in 16. We score plenty and produce plenty enough to win 4 or more SEC games in that timespan. Our D has killed us.

In 6 SEC games vs the top 3 in the SEC West in 2015 and 2016 we have scored 12 points TOTAL in the first half of those games. TOTAL. Thats 12 points in 3 complete games of football- causing us to be down by double digits at halftime of all 6 games.

That's an offensive problem no matter how you spin it

[Pipedream]

In 6 SEC games vs the top 3 in the SEC West in 2015 and 2016 we have scored 12 points TOTAL in the first half of those games. TOTAL. Thats 12 points in 3 complete games of football- causing us to be down by double digits at halftime of all 6 games.

That's an offensive problem no matter how you spin it

I'm not "spinning" anything. Just stating statistical truths. As are you. However, you're picking such a small, miniscule portion of data to skew the results. You're honing in on 19% of our SEC games in the last 2 years. I'm talking about the results in their totality. Which one do you think has more accuracy?

[lamont]

I'm not "spinning" anything. Just stating statistical truths. As are you. However, you're picking such a small, miniscule portion of data to skew the results. You're honing in on 19% of our SEC games in the last 2 years. I'm talking about the results in their totality. Which one do you think has more accuracy?

Mine obviously

Our lack of OL talent does not allow us to win big SEC games. We have scored 12 total points in the 1st halves of those 6 games. Double digit deficit at halftime of all 6. You dont need stats for that- its common sense that you simply arent competing in those games offensively and they are basically over by halftime

Just because we run over shitty defenses in other games doesnt mean our offense is good.

[I seen it dawg]

Look the ****ing OL is shit, has been shit, and will continue to be shit as long as the paycheck robber is on staff. He sucks at recruiting and isn't that great of a coach. Easily expendable and replaceable but won't ever happen. So until then enjoy having about 3 OL every year that might all be ready by game 1. With no noticeable depth behind them.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Mine obviously

Our lack of OL talent does not allow us to win big SEC games. We have scored 12 total points in the 1st halves of those 6 games. Double digit deficit at halftime of all 6. You dont need stats for that- its common sense that you simply arent competing in those games offensively and they are basically over by halftime

Just because we run over shitty defenses in other games doesnt mean our offense is good.

We beat Texas A&M last season when they were #4 in the country and in the playoff. Does that not count as a big game ? What you are actually saying is that we don't beat Bama. I have news for you. hardly anyone ever does. I think this argument has a lot to do with how Ole Miss has performed against them in the last 3 years, but honestly without a fluke deflection off of a helmet for a TD, Ole Miss is likely 1-2. Take a deep breath

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Mine obviously

Our lack of OL talent does not allow us to win big SEC games. We have scored 12 total points in the 1st halves of those 6 games. Double digit deficit at halftime of all 6. You dont need stats for that- its common sense that you simply arent competing in those games offensively and they are basically over by halftime

Just because we run over shitty defenses in other games doesnt mean our offense is good.

Mullen's timid play calling doesn't help things and neither does being ineffective in the red zone. We move it pretty damn good between the 20's.

[msstate7]

We beat Texas A&M last season when they were #4 in the country and in the playoff. Does that not count as a big game ? What you are actually saying is that we don't beat Bama. I have news for you. hardly anyone ever does. I think this argument has a lot to do with how Ole Miss has performed against them in the last 3 years, but honestly without a fluke deflection off of a helmet for a TD, Ole Miss is likely 1-2. Take a deep breath

I thought the egg bowl with winner getting a bowl and loser staying home was a big game. Our oline absolutely had a huge part in winning both of these games. We ran for more yards vs aTm and OM than anyone all year and both played bama and lsu.

[Pipedream]

We beat Texas A&M last season when they were #4 in the country and in the playoff. Does that not count as a big game ? What you are actually saying is that we don't beat Bama. I have news for you. hardly anyone ever does. I think this argument has a lot to do with how Ole Miss has performed against them in the last 3 years, but honestly without a fluke deflection off of a helmet for a TD, Ole Miss is likely 1-2. Take a deep breath

Yeah, the idea of "big game" is kind of ambiguous. There's only 14 of them. They're all pretty big in perspective. Using this "top 3 in the West" criteria, we've played 8 games in the last 3 years vs top 3 West teams (we were one of them in '14). A league average offense would've been 5.1 points/game better in those contests, a league average defense would've been 10.6 points better in those games. The defense has been MORE of a problem in these "big games" than the offense. The only two games where both offense and defense were close to average at the same time were '14 Bama and '16 LSU.

Here's a rundown of those games:

14 Bama: Equally average
14 OM: Equally bad on both sides
15 Bama: Offense was much worse
15 OM: Defense was much worse
15 Ark: We won, but defense was awful, offense saved us (and ST)
16 Bama: Equally awful
16 Auburn: Equally awful
16 LSU: Equally average