Chris Carter on the Read Option

[BrunswickDawg]

On Mike & Mike on my way in this morning, Chris Carter was reviewing last night's Skins - Eagles game and made a couple of points that I think were real important for our offensive situation. First, in talking about the Eagles, he stressed that their offense was tailored to set up the run and not the pass, and that everything played off of Vick's threat to run the ball. That threat opens McCoy in the running game and provides the options for the passing game. He also noted that if Vick goes down, or McCoy goes down that the 2's can't pick up that slack b/c Nick Foles is NO threat to run. Sounds familiar.

The next point reinforced that with RG3. Carter said that it is obvious RG3 is no threat to run only 8 months off knee surgery, and the defense is keying on that. With no threat to run, while still running the read option, they have a statue in the backfield who while being a talented passer forced balls to try to pick up the slack leading to interceptions. RG3 had 2 INTS after only throwing 5 all of last season. With the threat to run removed, RG3 an the Skins are no where near the same team.

I know that those on here with more football savvy can probably go deeper, but I think it was a good description of what we have been seeing since the Bama game last year. Defenses know with Russell, we have a non-running QB running the read option forcing our offense to play a 2 dimensional game instead of all 3 aspects of the system. So the big question is - Do we fix this??

[PassInterference]

Wetzel has a good article on last night's game. I hope Vick holds up.

[msstate7]

Do we fix this? That's the million dollar question. I don't think anyone, but Mullen really knows.

About eagles backup qb situation... Pick up tebow right now. He can run that offense if Vick goes down.

About rg3... He's still learning to trust the knee. I wouldn't say he's not gonna be a running threat at all. He started running some in the second half and had decent speed, but didnt see him make a cut. His passing looked much better second half. I think rg3 turns it around quickly.

[smootness]

The Eagles just cut Dennis Dixon, and I think he'd be a far better option in the offense than Tebow. I think Tebow got a bit of an unfair deal in the NFL, and he is a threat to run the ball, but I think that's more about when plays break down. I don't see him being a huge threat in the read option game simply because he isn't all that quick. He certainly can't compare to Vick.

I think what Cris Carter said is right on point; I don't think anyone debates that mobile QBs are much more equipped to run the read option than immobile QBs. That isn't in question. Mullen tried to change our offense from a read option to more of a conventional passing attack when Russell took over, it just hasn't worked all that well.

I do wish now we would just go back to the read option and use Dak, but our best offense would be much more about power running as opposed to teams like the Eagles and Oregon, who are about finding space for their little guys to take off. Dak is no Vick, and Perkins/Robinson/Shumpert are no McCoy. Just different players.

[KB21]

The Eagles just cut Dennis Dixon, and I think he'd be a far better option in the offense than Tebow. I think Tebow got a bit of an unfair deal in the NFL, and he is a threat to run the ball, but I think that's more about when plays break down. I don't see him being a huge threat in the read option game simply because he isn't all that quick. He certainly can't compare to Vick.

I think what Cris Carter said is right on point; I don't think anyone debates that mobile QBs are much more equipped to run the read option than immobile QBs. That isn't in question. Mullen tried to change our offense from a read option to more of a conventional passing attack when Russell took over, it just hasn't worked all that well.

I do wish now we would just go back to the read option and use Dak, but our best offense would be much more about power running as opposed to teams like the Eagles and Oregon, who are about finding space for their little guys to take off. Dak is no Vick, and Perkins/Robinson/Shumpert are no McCoy. Just different players.

The thing is, trying to change this offense from a read option offense to more of a drop back passing offense has not worked when those that run this offense have done it in the past. See John Brantley when Urban Meyer tried to do it at Florida.

Here's an interesting link about a Chip Kelly speech:

http://www.businessinsider.com/chip-kelly-speech-about-simplicity-2013-9


"Our offensive line leads the country in yards per carry and rushing touchdowns and we only run four plays in the running game. The offensive line plays with conviction. If you can keep it simple for the players in the offensive line so they have confidence going into a game, you have an opportunity to win the game. The five offensive lineman are key to your football team.

"I do not think anyone on our offensive line was offered a scholarship coming out of high school. I think the system we run helps our offensive lineman. The key is to make sure they know what they are doing."



There are a lot of similarities between Chip Kelly's offense and the offense that Urban Meyer/Dan Mullen run, but there are some key differences. Both offenses have only four base running plays. The difference is Chip Kelly's offense is based around the quarterback read, while in Urban's/Dan's offense, the quarterback read is more of a constraint and the running game is based around the inside run from the backs.

[whosyourdawgy]

If his dumbass will slide or get out of bounds and quit taking unnecessary hits, he will not get injured. He took a hit last night in the 3rd on his best run of the night. At the end of the run all he had to do was step out of bounds and jog back to the huddle. Instead he gets 1 or 2 extra yards and gets hit and tackled on his side and shoulder. He got up but was noticeably banged up a little. No excuse for even being touched there He's never learned and won't now. I'm a Cowboy fan so I don't care if he never learns but with chip Kelly's offense with Vick, McCoy, and Jackson playing in that offense, Philly can be scary good on offense

[smootness]

When it has a QB that is a serious threat to run, Mullen's system is absolutely based around the zone read. Relf did it a ton, Tebow did it a ton... We mostly used straight runs from Dixon his first year, but that was because Dixon was a beast and Tyson Lee wasn't a huge threat to run it, so might as well just tell him to hand it off.

We obviously don't do it much now because Russell isn't a huge threat to run it. But once we go to Dak, and then with guys like Staley in the future, you'll see a whole bunch of zone read again.

[smootness]

If his dumbass will slide or get out of bounds and quit taking unnecessary hits, he will not get injured. He took a hit last night in the 3rd on his best run of the night. At the end of the run all he had to do was step out of bounds and jog back to the huddle. Instead he gets 1 or 2 extra yards and gets hit and tackled on his side and shoulder. He got up but was noticeably banged up a little. No excuse for even being touched there He's never learned and won't now. I'm a Cowboy fan so I don't care if he never learns but with chip Kelly's offense with Vick, McCoy, and Jackson playing in that offense, Philly can be scary good on offense

Obviously you're right that he should just step out at the end of a run when it's not going anywhere else...the problem is, especially in the past when he was the fastest player in the league rather than just really fast, he can still make a play from just about any situation on the field. He is incredibly elusive and quick, and part of why he's been such a weapon running the ball is that he's constantly trying to make a play. If you could somehow keep the part of him that is able to get out of trouble and keep plays alive while also having him step out at just the right moment, it'd be fantastic. But with human nature, once a guy starts to think about stepping out of bounds, he's more likely to think about it more often than he absolutely has to, and you lose some of the advantage of having him running around.

You're right that at this point he is what he is...you ride him like crazy while he's there and hope he stays in the game. Earlier in his career, though, he didn't take many shots. His big injury was a knee from a horse-collar. He was too elusive to be hit square much.

[fishwater99]

So the big question is - Do we fix this??

Mullen has had 2 years to fix this and hasn't yet. TR is going to be the QB and Mullen is still try to jam a square peg in round hole.
DAK is not going to start as long as TR can play, just like JRob or Shump aren't going to take carries away from Perkins..

[maroonmania]

Mullen has had 2 years to fix this and hasn't yet. TR is going to be the QB and Mullen is still try to jam a square peg in round hole.
DAK is not going to start as long as TR can play, just like JRob or Shump aren't going to take carries away from Perkins..

Its pretty obvious at this point that Mullen and Koennig don't know how to run an air raid spread. Everything we do with Russell is slow, slow developing and requires great pass blocking to be effective given the immobility of Russell. If any of you watch the WSU offense under Leach (I saw the Auburn game) you can see all of the quick hitting pass plays with slants and curls they run that we rarely ever run. Other than a WR screen (which rarely works for much) we don't seem to do any quick hitting patterns nor do we do any deep patterns. Everything seems to be slow developing mid-range routes. But if you put Russell in the Leach system he would be very, very effective. Our coaches either don't know how to do it or don't want to do it. Therefore until we get back to the run based spread with a mobile QB we seem to stuck with a scheme that doesn't really scare anyone and is not that effective.

[Dawg61]

They intentionally ran a slow offense vs OSU. It's what Mullen believes works vs a superior opponent. It never works though.

[smootness]

Yeah, we essentially just run the pass plays that were already in the Mullen system; we just run more of them.

[Hypnodawg]

They intentionally ran a slow offense vs OSU. It's what Mullen believes works vs a superior opponent. It never works though.

This is what I don't understand. Seem we go away from what works when we play superior opponents and we always get beat. Definition of insanity.

[smootness]

They intentionally ran a slow offense vs OSU. It's what Mullen believes works vs a superior opponent. It never works though.

I assume you're talking about the pace of the offense, though, as in how quickly we run the next play. Maroonmania is talking about the fact that our plays are slow-developing, so routes and such take too long to open up, and Russell doesn't make quick throws.

They're two separate things. I agree with Mullen that a slower offense can work; I understand why teams run the HUNH, but that doesn't mean it's what you have to do. We do, however, need to run some quicker pass plays and get the ball into our WR's hands more quickly.