Morehead Meltdown Thoughts

[Todd4State]

On a night like tonight it's easy to focus on the things that went wrong. And that's absolutely reasonable. But there were some good things tonight that are being overlooked and I wanted to point some of those things out. We have a good hitting team. LA looked really good and Stovall has made a lot of progress since last year. Mangum is Mangum and Skelton looks really good. I know people are worried about the pitching but Billingsley pitched pretty well and he should have gotten the win. He can help us out. Barton and Price were also very good. There are some piece there and they are emerging and ultimately we will be fine.

Now the bad because it doesn't need to slide. Our coaches left Smith in too long. He should have been pulled after the third hitter he faced. He doesn't have it right now and it reminds me a lot of Vance Tatum. But I can not figure out why the hell our coaches didn't figure this out when he is getting hit and walking people left and right. It's just like Major League where they give Ricky Vaughn one more hitter just to see what happens when common sense says it's going to be the same result. I think Barton and Price should close. Self I think should probably get a chance to start.

Also, putting Marrero in at second is senseless. Yes, I am aware that Stovall pulled his hamstring. So, why not move Gridley to second, LA to SS, Skelton to third and then have either Marerro or Lovelady catch? To be fair to Smith Marrero made some critical mistakes at second that hurt us in the ninth as well. It's another senseless experiment.

Gridley hitting third is a deadhorse but at least we're getting the same lineup everyday. Sarcasm noted.

Five games in and I think it's apparent to most who can do what for the most part despite the small sample size. What I want to see is Cannizaro adjust the lineup and how pitchers are used. That's what I'm looking for this weekend. Hopefully he does just that- for my sanity.

[msstate7]

Definitely need to move gridley to 2b

[CadaverDawg]

Good post. I agree with all of that. I think they wanted to see Smith work through that to gain confidence, and didn't really think we could blow that lead. Mistake. I'm all for experimenting in the early season, but you have to pick your spots...you can't allow experiments to cost you rpi crippling games like tonight. We will be fine, but I hope AC learned a big lesson. If you're going to pull that shit, pick your spots and don't do stupid shit that clearly isn't smart, like Elih at 2B. That was just dumb. Learn from it, and don't let that shit happen again. Big rpi hit tonight. Need to win a big one on the road to wipe it out. I hate that we seem to do this shit every year in baseball & hoops. Terrible

[Todd4State]

Good post. I agree with all of that. I think they wanted to see Smith work through that to gain confidence, and didn't really think we could blow that lead. Mistake. I'm all for experimenting in the early season, but you have to pick your spots...you can't allow experiments to cost you rpi crippling games like tonight. We will be fine, but I hope AC learned a big lesson. If you're going to pull that shit, pick your spots and don't do stupid shit that clearly isn't smart, like Elih at 2B. That was just dumb. Learn from it, and don't let that shit happen again. Big rpi hit tonight. Need to win a big one on the road to wipe it out. I hate that we seem to do this shit every year in baseball & hoops. Terrible

Exactly. If we're going to do ridiculous things either do it up by double digits or against Alcorn. In fact that's the only reason I don't mind playing a couple of SWAC teams- to have an opportunity to experiment. The bad thing is he probably completely ruined Smith. I'll be shocked if he comes back from this.

[Todd4State]

Definitely need to move gridley to 2b

Like I've been saying- Stovall and LA are our best MIF guys. I wish we would just move Skelton or maybe the baseball gods smile on us and Bragg figured out how to play defense at Gavin Collins levels. Cann is hung up on Gridley though. I just wonder how long it's going to go on.

[Tbonewannabe]

Exactly. If we're going to do ridiculous things either do it up by double digits or against Alcorn. In fact that's the only reason I don't mind playing a couple of SWAC teams- to have an opportunity to experiment. The bad thing is he probably completely ruined Smith. I'll be shocked if he comes back from this.

The difference between Smith and almost everyone else on our staff is he has pitched in critical spots last year.

[Joe Schmedlap]

I really don't wanna see that guy on the mound again, ever

[Activated Alpha]

I was screaming at marrero to throw it to first after he caught the line drive. Should have been a double play, but nope...

[civildawg]

Does anyone know why marrero was playing second in the first place? Blows my mind. It's like Cannizaro just said oh we will get 3 outs, go out there and play 2nd for us.

[smootness]

I think Cannizaro was trying to find out what Smith was made of...had a bad outing, so put him back in there in a tough situation and see if he can throw strikes and get people out. Yeah, he left him in too long, but I think he wanted to see if he could really handle being the closer, and Smith just couldn't throw strikes. I think that's why Cannizaro seemed so pissed when he went in to take him out. Just wasn't able to rise to the occasion and do what needed to be done.

[smootness]

Exactly. If we're going to do ridiculous things either do it up by double digits or against Alcorn. In fact that's the only reason I don't mind playing a couple of SWAC teams- to have an opportunity to experiment. The bad thing is he probably completely ruined Smith. I'll be shocked if he comes back from this.

If Smith is ruined, then he did it to himself. If you can't throw strikes in that situation against that team, you're probably never going to do it in that situation against anybody.

[BB30]

If Smith is ruined, then he did it to himself. If you can't throw strikes in that situation against that team, you're probably never going to do it in that situation against anybody.

Exactly, if that ruins a kid he wasn't going to help us from the get go. As we all know baseball is a game of constant failure, one bad outing against a terrible team shouldn't "ruin the kid". Leaving him out there to work through it early in the season is generally what most every coach would do. It just didn't work out. It is still early, there will be several more head scratchers in the next few weeks. Also look for us to win some games most don't expect us to.

[basedog]

Exactly, if that ruins a kid he wasn't going to help us from the get go. As we all know baseball is a game of constant failure, one bad outing against a terrible team shouldn't "ruin the kid". Leaving him out there to work through it early in the season is generally what most every coach would do. It just didn't work out. It is still early, there will be several more head scratchers in the next few weeks. Also look for us to win some games most don't expect us to.

I agree, it's very early, we will improve. Folks need to remember this is a new staff with a bunch of players w/o game time experience. Baseball is the strangest sport, it's mostly about the pitcher, if he is own Babe Ruth, Willie Mays and Pete Rose would struggle, when he's off, Pee Wee Herman would be in the HOF.

Cannizora will get the job done, not a single player on this rooster did he recruit that I know of anyway, he will be very successful in years ahead, Before some jump ship let him recruit a year or two, he is known as a great recruiter and in baseball circles is well respected.

[Cooterpoot]

I think Canz is struggling to manage the game right now. I think it's a huge difference going from watching the game and helping make some calls to being the man that has to make the calls. We hired a recruiter that's going to have to learn how to manage the game. Then, throw in the fact that we aren't a great hitting team and our pen is garbage and you're looking at less than 30 wins unless we figure things out by the time SEC play starts.

[Duckdog]

What a sh!t show!

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I hope Cannz is not the Rick Ray of Basketball.... it will take us 10 years to recover from Ray..... But Cannz was hired by someone who has a 108-130 SEC record....so there's that.

[maroonmania]

Guess I will just mention that while I agree that right now we can have a lot more trust in Barton and Price to close than Smith, the 9th inning meltdown actually was started by Price giving up back to back singles to open up the frame. That is when Smith was brought on and everything continued to snowball from there. If Price had been solid to start the inning we probably never see Smith. Now Price had already pitched 1.2 innings before the 9th but if he hadn't pitched those I am not sure who would have? Biggest issue is that if we can't come into this season depending on Smith and Rigby (the only veteran bullpen guys) then we just have a major problem because that means there just aren't enough pitchers on the back end of the bullpen to rely on to prevent repeatedly blowing late leads. We were VERY fortunate to escape the Western Illinois Sunday game and if they had not held the go ahead runner in the Top of the 9th at 3rd on the single into LF to Blaylock we might be sitting here talking about being 2-3 having blown 2 games already with 4+ run leads in the 9th. Smith and Rigby have to be dependable guys to have a good season this year, if not, adding that to the situation with all of the injured arms, we are just in a world of hurt. You know we have problems when we are running guys like Jolly, Mahoney and Barlow out there to try and put out a late game fire. I mean Smith technically left the game with us still leading and we lost by 5 RUNS! Seriously, this is not a pitching staff that can handle 4 game weekend sets. That is what left us so thin for pitchers last night. And apparently Breaux has gotten so bad he now can't even be trusted to pitch midweek.

[MetEdDawg]

I think Canz is struggling to manage the game right now. I think it's a huge difference going from watching the game and helping make some calls to being the man that has to make the calls. We hired a recruiter that's going to have to learn how to manage the game. Then, throw in the fact that we aren't a great hitting team and our pen is garbage and you're looking at less than 30 wins unless we figure things out by the time SEC play starts.

Let's be real here. This team was going to be hard to manage regardless of whether it was Cohen or Can. Young, inexperienced, very few returning players. This was a project team regardless of who was the head coach. I said last week we were going to lose games we shouldn't. Here you go. But this might help us beat a good team down the road because we don't use a particular player in a certain situation that we otherwise might have. There's always trade offs to situations. Can couldn't have imagined we would implode like that. But that's part of learning how to be a HC and we have to understand that is where we are at right now.

Shake it off. It's one loss in a 50 game season. Sucks right now, but the hope is we grow and learn from it both as a staff and as a team. Got a lot of judgment going on by people that don't understand the process. If this starts becoming a regular thing, then we start grumbling. Right now it's growing pains from a young team and it's to be expected.

[maroonmania]

I think Canz is struggling to manage the game right now. I think it's a huge difference going from watching the game and helping make some calls to being the man that has to make the calls. We hired a recruiter that's going to have to learn how to manage the game. Then, throw in the fact that we aren't a great hitting team and our pen is garbage and you're looking at less than 30 wins unless we figure things out by the time SEC play starts.

Maybe so but how experienced do you have to be to NOT throw a catcher out there late in a game to play 2nd base? Especially one that seems to be struggling in every facet of his game right now.

[Cooterpoot]

Maybe so but how experienced do you have to be to NOT throw a catcher out there late in a game to play 2nd base? Especially one that seems to be struggling in every facet of his game right now.

I'm just trying to be patient. I don't like what I see. But our talent isn't great either. We need Canz to bring in a couple top rated classes and actually get them on campus. I think he will be good at identifying our weak spots and finding better players. The management is going to take a little time.

[SandlotDawg]

I think Canz is struggling to manage the game right now. I think it's a huge difference going from watching the game and helping make some calls to being the man that has to make the calls. We hired a recruiter that's going to have to learn how to manage the game. Then, throw in the fact that we aren't a great hitting team and our pen is garbage and you're looking at less than 30 wins unless we figure things out by the time SEC play starts.

I'm willing to bet if you would look at Cohen's first five games of the season every year, you'd say he was struggling to manage the game. It's early and he's trying different things to see what his guys have got. Chill for a sec and let it play out.

[Cooterpoot]

I'm willing to bet if you would look at Cohen's first five games of the season every year, you'd say he was struggling to manage the game. It's early and he's trying different things to see what his guys have got. Chill for a sec and let it play out.

I've never said that. But let's say he's "evaluating" players. He should've already done that for the most part. And I'm not big on fall ball determining everything, but it does give you a pretty good idea of a lot of things. You don't lose games for the sake of "seeing what they can do". Cohen was pissed after Eastern KY last year. And that was the only real terrible loss we had IMO. I just know we don't have the talent we had last year, nor the quality depth. There's not a lot of decisions to be made with personnel beyond the new guys.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Let's not Punish Cannizzaro because our Sophomore pitcher class is basically destroyed:

The players themselves are not busts, but the bottom line is we are pressing 6 people that would either be redshirts or sophomores in JUCO into service. Ford, James, Small, Padgett, and Hughes are not going to produce until 2018 and Breaux is currently a non-factor. All those innings we invested in them against FAU, Texas A&M, USCw, and Vandy are basically for nothing.

Cannizzaro will have to write-off the lost causes and hope he gets something. However, he needs to recruit and develop McQuary, Self, Ashcraft, and Barlow like the TJs will never pitch for us again.

As Todd has said, Smith is a clean-start guy and I would say, never be used as a closer again. He should be pulled after one walk or hit. Like Cohen did with Houston, until he eventually got better.

[Commercecomet24]

We have a young team right now with a new coaching staff. We obviously have talent but sometimes with young comes some inconsistency and some failure. I look for us to improve greatly as the season progresses and we become more experienced, especially in the pitching staff. We gonna get there.

[smootness]

I've never said that. But let's say he's "evaluating" players. He should've already done that for the most part. And I'm not big on fall ball determining everything, but it does give you a pretty good idea of a lot of things. You don't lose games for the sake of "seeing what they can do". Cohen was pissed after Eastern KY last year. And that was the only real terrible loss we had IMO. I just know we don't have the talent we had last year, nor the quality depth. There's not a lot of decisions to be made with personnel beyond the new guys.

And Cannizaro was clearly pissed last night. He turned his back on an exiting pitcher, which I'm not sure I've ever seen before.

[maroonmania]

And Cannizaro was clearly pissed last night. He turned his back on an exiting pitcher, which I'm not sure I've ever seen before.

I'm sure he felt as I did that if the pitcher you put out there throws his stuff and it just gets hit, well you can live with that. But having the guy you think is supposed to be your closer go out there and repeatedly walk people (like Smith has done in both appearances) then you probably just don't even want to have an interchange with them.

[TNDawg35]

And Cannizaro was clearly pissed last night. He turned his back on an exiting pitcher, which I'm not sure I've ever seen before.

Yep and WANTED the ball halfway to the mound... I sure as hell have never seen that before.

[bulldogcountry1]

Maybe so but how experienced do you have to be to NOT throw a catcher out there late in a game to play 2nd base? Especially one that seems to be struggling in every facet of his game right now.


Marrero PR for Stovall in the B8 because he had a tight hamstring. Who would you have put at second?

[msstate7]

Marrero PR for Stovall in the B8 because he had a tight hamstring. Who would you have put at second?

If you only have 3 capable guys of playing 2b, you probably shouldn't start all 3. Need to find a backup MIB or a new 3b

[BB30]

I've never said that. But let's say he's "evaluating" players. He should've already done that for the most part. And I'm not big on fall ball determining everything, but it does give you a pretty good idea of a lot of things. You don't lose games for the sake of "seeing what they can do". Cohen was pissed after Eastern KY last year. And that was the only real terrible loss we had IMO. I just know we don't have the talent we had last year, nor the quality depth. There's not a lot of decisions to be made with personnel beyond the new guys.

From playing college and pro ball I can assure you that "evaluating" players in the fall doesn't tell you very much other than what kind of stuff they have and what tools they have. It in no way shape or form will tell you how they are going to perform during the season in front of a crowd of people in live action. Most fall intersquad games are somewhat controlled, yes there is a certain pressure to perform to improve where you start in the pecking order come spring but you can't tell squat about a kid until he is thrown into a situation in a game that means something. I played with a bunch of kids that were terrific in the fall and disappeared in the spring. I also played with kids that looked like complete sh** in the fall and tore it up during the regular season. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the youngsters that are playing well right now struggle a bit the first time they play in front of 7-10K people. We have had several pitchers the last 5-6 years that have had amazing stuff that have downright sucked during the spring.

As for Can he is learning as well. We won't know a lot about this team until we are 15 games into the season and have several outings under some guys belts. Teams lose every year to inferior competition. Regardless of the coach, you have to figure out who is a gamer and who isn't. Dakota Hudson was a prime example. His stuff didn't just get magically better his last year here. He finally figured out how to pitch and use his plus stuff effectively. Some kids have a bulldog mentality coming out of highschool and the transition is easy. Some had great stuff in highschool and got away with blowing fastballs by kids in and out of the zone and they are now going to figure out that you cant get in disadvantage counts and rely strictly on velocity to get you out of jams.

[SandlotDawg]

Obviously Marrero has gotten some work at 2nd in the fall. Cannizaro wouldn't just put him out there if he didn't feel confident that he could handle the position.

[smootness]

Obviously Marrero has gotten some work at 2nd in the fall. Cannizaro wouldn't just put him out there if he didn't feel confident that he could handle the position.

They talked pretty extensively on the broadcast about how impressed Cannizaro is with Marrero's glove work in the infield and that he's among the best on the team in that regard. And he did make a play that was by no means an easy one on the line drive. Yes, he threw to 2nd, but if someone else doesn't even catch that one, then who cares.

Obviously the issue with Marrero at 2B is probably his range. But it's not like he's a butcher there.

[Todd4State]

If Smith is ruined, then he did it to himself. If you can't throw strikes in that situation against that team, you're probably never going to do it in that situation against anybody.

My point is there is a difference between not performing and getting pulled before the game is lost and staying out there and being allowed to stay out there not performing and losing the game. The first is easier to recover and learn from IMO. I just don't like leaving a player out there to the point of failure because no one benefits.

[Todd4State]

They talked pretty extensively on the broadcast about how impressed Cannizaro is with Marrero's glove work in the infield and that he's among the best on the team in that regard. And he did make a play that was by no means an easy one on the line drive. Yes, he threw to 2nd, but if someone else doesn't even catch that one, then who cares.

Obviously the issue with Marrero at 2B is probably his range. But it's not like he's a butcher there.

My guess is it's inexperience. You can have the athleticism to get to a ball bit if you don't know where to go with it after catching it, that only comes with reps and experience.

[maroonmania]

Marrero PR for Stovall in the B8 because he had a tight hamstring. Who would you have put at second?

Wouldn't we have been better to put in Bragg at 3rd and slide LA over to 2B? If we don't trust Bragg then we should just pull the redshirt off Reed Smith because we are too thin in the middle infield. Would be highly surprised if Gridley, Alexander and Stovall all are able to play every game this year.

[DogDaddy]

From playing college and pro ball I can assure you that "evaluating" players in the fall doesn't tell you very much other than what kind of stuff they have and what tools they have. It in no way shape or form will tell you how they are going to perform during the season in front of a crowd of people in live action. Most fall intersquad games are somewhat controlled, yes there is a certain pressure to perform to improve where you start in the pecking order come spring but you can't tell squat about a kid until he is thrown into a situation in a game that means something. I played with a bunch of kids that were terrific in the fall and disappeared in the spring. I also played with kids that looked like complete sh** in the fall and tore it up during the regular season. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the youngsters that are playing well right now struggle a bit the first time they play in front of 7-10K people. We have had several pitchers the last 5-6 years that have had amazing stuff that have downright sucked during the spring.

As for Can he is learning as well. We won't know a lot about this team until we are 15 games into the season and have several outings under some guys belts. Teams lose every year to inferior competition. Regardless of the coach, you have to figure out who is a gamer and who isn't. Dakota Hudson was a prime example. His stuff didn't just get magically better his last year here. He finally figured out how to pitch and use his plus stuff effectively. Some kids have a bulldog mentality coming out of highschool and the transition is easy. Some had great stuff in highschool and got away with blowing fastballs by kids in and out of the zone and they are now going to figure out that you cant get in disadvantage counts and rely strictly on velocity to get you out of jams.


This^^^.

Excellent. Just excellent. When the lights come on for real, everything changes.

[louisvilledawg]

All i read on seemingly every thread of every men's sport is "how young we are."

Anybody else noticed that?

We gave up 10 runs in 1 inning to a school that 95% of America has no idea where it's located. We were supposed to beat their eyes in. Tired of being inundated with "we're just young" as an excuse to not being able to get a job done.

Pure BS

[msstate7]

They talked pretty extensively on the broadcast about how impressed Cannizaro is with Marrero's glove work in the infield and that he's among the best on the team in that regard. And he did make a play that was by no means an easy one on the line drive. Yes, he threw to 2nd, but if someone else doesn't even catch that one, then who cares.

Obviously the issue with Marrero at 2B is probably his range. But it's not like he's a butcher there.

They talked about marrero's defense after the loss? Might have been some justification going on

[msstate7]

Wouldn't we have been better to put in Bragg at 3rd and slide LA over to 2B? If we don't trust Bragg then we should just pull the redshirt off Reed Smith because we are too thin in the middle infield. Would be highly surprised if Gridley, Alexander and Stovall all are able to play every game this year.

We probably will move Alexander to 2b instead of SS where he should be

[SandlotDawg]

All i read on seemingly every thread of every men's sport is "how young we are."

Anybody else noticed that?

We gave up 10 runs in 1 inning to a school that 95% of America has no idea where it's located. We were supposed to beat their eyes in. Tired of being inundated with "we're just young" as an excuse to not being able to get a job done.

Pure BS

It's true though... Rooker and Gridley are the only juniors/seniors in the lineup with any experience. Let'em play and if it's the same story in a month then I'll tip my cap to you.

[smootness]

They talked about marrero's defense after the loss? Might have been some justification going on

No, at the beginning of the inning, explaining why Cannizaro was comfortable having Marrero play 2B in a pinch.

[smootness]

All i read on seemingly every thread of every men's sport is "how young we are."

Anybody else noticed that?

We gave up 10 runs in 1 inning to a school that 95% of America has no idea where it's located. We were supposed to beat their eyes in. Tired of being inundated with "we're just young" as an excuse to not being able to get a job done.

Pure BS

People mostly talk about how young we are in basketball because it's true. We're one of the youngest teams in the country and the least experienced. In the entire country.

In baseball, it's more relative. We're not an incredibly young team, but we are younger than we were last year, and especially after the loss of 4 pitchers to TJ, we're younger than we should be in pitching. It's not an excuse, it's just a fact.

In football, it's again more relative. We were younger this year than the year before. Those things will stop being true next year. In basketball, it will still be somewhat true, in the others it won't matter at all.

[The Federalist Engineer]

I'm just trying to be patient. I don't like what I see. But our talent isn't great either. We need Canz to bring in a couple top rated classes and actually get them on campus. I think he will be good at identifying our weak spots and finding better players. The management is going to take a little time.


Definitely need to move gridley to 2b

The amazing thing about Gridley is that he is the biggest contributor of our 2014 recruiting class. The only true everyday starter with multiple years of contribution from the 2014 recruiting class is a 2b that should batting 8th in the order.

[smootness]

What's up with Reed Smith? He was a highly touted signee, wasn't he? Is he hurt, or redshirting?

Also, Will Brooks - I remember something happening with him, but what was it? Did he ultimately sign elsewhere?