What is ED's thoughts on why we never play a zone?

[tcdog70]

I know Ben loves Man to Man, but when you cannot stop dribble penetration, why not drop into a zone. I know he played a little zone last year and we did pretty good. I would like for us to try a trapping 1-3-1. Kegler might could play the front Man. Just a thought.

[smootness]

He's probably letting this year be a learning year in some respects, so instead of switching up the defense when we're not executing it well, my guess is that he would rather force them to continue playing it in order to improve.

[Dawg61]

He's probably letting this year be a learning year in some respects, so instead of switching up the defense when we're not executing it well, my guess is that he would rather force them to continue playing it in order to improve.

Yup looks to me like Howland is letting them learn on their own this year. You can warn someone and tell them the correct way but they gotta get the experience of failure first before they actually listen. I hate going through growing pain years. We as fans want the most success possible right away and it's just not in the cards for us this year.

[tcdog70]

well both of you agreeing is a WOW moment. But I am thinking the same as Ya'll. Maybe in the future we will be hell on wheels with a man defense.

[JETDAWG]

give me box+1... anything to slow or hopefully stop the dribble drive. WOW !!!

[lamont]

Because Howland is hardheaded.

I would love to see us commit to zone like Cuse and Louisville. Use our length and athletes to smother people. Teach the hell out of the match-up.

[smootness]

Because Howland is hardheaded.

I would love to see us commit to zone like Cuse and Louisville. Use our length and athletes to smother people. Teach the hell out of the match-up.

He's also proven to be a great defensive coach. He teaches man-to-man because he believes in it and knows it. Same reason Boeheim teaches the zone.

[tcdog70]

i remember Everett Earl showing him a zone last year and it worked. Howland called it his Bus Driver Zone--Everett must have learned it from Joe Dan Gold or Daddy Keyes Curry

[lamont]

He's also proven to be a great defensive coach. He teaches man-to-man because he believes in it and knows it. Same reason Boeheim teaches the zone.

Saban believed in smash-mouth, cram it down your throat football. Now he runs the zone read
Pitino was 40 minutes of pressing and man defense- now he runs mostly zone

Good coaches evolve- especially when what they are doing isnt working. The Les Miles guys that refuse to adjust end up on the scrap heap

[smootness]

Saban believed in smash-mouth, cram it down your throat football. Now he runs the zone read
Pitino was 40 minutes of pressing and man defense- now he runs mostly zone

Good coaches evolve- especially when what they are doing isnt working. The Les Miles guys that refuse to adjust end up on the scrap heap

Basketball hasn't 'evolved' past man-to-man. And I like that you noted that Saban has allowed for a change in offensive philosophy but didn't note that on defense, his specialty, they still run what they've always run.

Howland has changed his offensive style, as he has continuously done throughout his career, and does far more pushing of the tempo than he ever did before on that side. He has evolved, calling him 'hardheaded' is just you doing what you do. He wants this team to become a great man-to-man team, so that's what he's pushing them to work on.

Acting as though the reason we're not having a lot of success defensively is because man-to-man is a dinosaur in basketball is asinine.

[thf24]

It might help us to play a little more zone, but I don't think last night would have been a good night to try it with the way they were hitting 3's.

[lamont]

Basketball hasn't 'evolved' past man-to-man. And I like that you noted that Saban has allowed for a change in offensive philosophy but didn't note that on defense, his specialty, they still run what they've always run.

Glad you brought that up. No- Saban has morphed his defense as well and made numerous changes. He is now recruiting smaller, quicker guys on the DL because he has to walk guys down to use more 4 man fronts than he ever has. Tebow and Manziel made him make those changes

[lamont]

Acting as though the reason we're not having a lot of success defensively is because man-to-man is a dinosaur in basketball is asinine.

Who did that? Wasnt me

The point of my post was that we are extremely shitty playing man D for the 2nd season in a row under Howland. Asinine is continuing to do the same thing over and over because "by god thats my system!!!!!"

Good coaches adjust

[tcdog70]

It might help us to play a little more zone, but I don't think last night would have been a good night to try it with the way they were hitting 3's.

I agree, but last night they hit a lot in transition and by going inside out. If the zone keeps them from going inside then they can't go out. Our post men need to learn how to not fumble post feeds out of bounds. We screw up and the turnover is charged to the passer when really our big men really were at fault. Getting Big in post and learning how to accept the pass is an art and our Bigs need to work on it.

Has anyone noticed how flustered Peters gets when they screw up His entry pass?

[Ari Gold]

While I do wish we would mix up defensive looks on certain tips and against certain teams, the zone isn't going to cure our defensive problems.
1. We don't rebound well now , it's harder to rebound out of zone.
2. Teams with good guard play penetrate zones easier results wide open kick out 3's and short mid range jumpers. We don't have that big guy in the middle that can turn away shots.
3. And playing zone can allow players to get lazy. That's the last ****ing thing we need more laziness on the def end.

These freshman have probably never been taught or had to play defense before. Q should be better defensively than he is.
Lots of defense is effort just like rebounding. Sometimes we show sometimes we don't.

Kentucky doesn't play defense well. Cal just has lot more horses to put in when his guys don't play D. There aren't but a few in the league that do play def well. Alabama and USCe for sure the top 2.

CBH knows what the **** he is doing, and this is year 2 people... Its coming!!!!!

[smootness]

Who did that? Wasnt me

The point of my post was that we are extremely shitty playing man D for the 2nd season in a row under Howland. Asinine is continuing to do the same thing over and over because "by god thats my system!!!!!"

Good coaches adjust

It's an entirely different group of players. You used Saban and Miles as examples, but they changed (or should have changed) because college football changed. In order to recruit and to put of the kind of offense necessary, it was imperative that they make a change. There is no parallel in that sense to Howland.

You can't use last year's team's struggles against this year's team. That is what would be stupid.

[smootness]

Glad you brought that up. No- Saban has morphed his defense as well and made numerous changes. He is now recruiting smaller, quicker guys on the DL because he has to walk guys down to use more 4 man fronts than he ever has. Tebow and Manziel made him make those changes

You talking about the DL that started guys weighing 265, 287, 290, and 319 pounds?

[Dawg61]

Holman is long, disruptive and a very good passer he might be pretty effective roaming the foul line in a 2-3 zone while picking up loose balls and heaving them downcourt to Spoon and Peters. I'd be curious to see Herard, Holman, Kegler, Spoon, Peters in a 2-3 zone.

[lamont]

You talking about the DL that started guys weighing 265, 287, 290, and 319 pounds?

yeah- remember guys like Cody that weighed 335???

[lamont]

While I do wish we would mix up defensive looks on certain tips and against certain teams, the zone isn't going to cure our defensive problems.
1. We don't rebound well now , it's harder to rebound out of zone.
2. Teams with good guard play penetrate zones easier results wide open kick out 3's and short mid range jumpers. We don't have that big guy in the middle that can turn away shots.
3. And playing zone can allow players to get lazy. That's the last ****ing thing we need more laziness on the def end.

These freshman have probably never been taught or had to play defense before. Q should be better defensively than he is.
Lots of defense is effort just like rebounding. Sometimes we show sometimes we don't.

Kentucky doesn't play defense well. Cal just has lot more horses to put in when his guys don't play D. There aren't but a few in the league that do play def well. Alabama and USCe for sure the top 2.

CBH knows what the **** he is doing, and this is year 2 people... Its coming!!!!!

No doubt that the zone is not an end all be all- having Herard in the middle with two guys beside him like Holman and Keglar with the wingspan they have would be beneficial to us. Teams would not be able to penetrate as easily against a zone as they do against us now. Other teams play a match-up zone using man defense principles- no reason we wouldnt do the same.

[tcdog70]

No doubt that the zone is not an end all be all- having Herard in the middle with two guys beside him like Holman and Keglar with the wingspan they have would be beneficial to us. Teams would not be able to penetrate as easily against a zone as they do against us now. Other teams play a match-up zone using man defense principles- no reason we wouldnt do the same.


I agree. What would it hurt to try it? Should help keep BIGS out of foul trouble. A change of pace and a different look might help get a couple of stops.

[BB30]

Teams issue is youth and depth in the post, that is it. Whether we play man or zone won't make much of a difference. We do everything in spurts right now both good and bad. We have played good defense at times in man and we have been absolutely atrocious at times. Same on offense. The guys just need to continue to grow up and understand the amount of effort that has to be given for an entire game not just for 2-3 minute stretches.

[smootness]

yeah- remember guys like Cody that weighed 335???

So because their current NG is 16 pounds lighter than a former one, it shows that Saban is going lighter and quicker on the DL? Cody was the aberration, he was the biggest they ever had.

[thf24]

So because their current NG is 16 pounds lighter than a former one, it shows that Saban is going lighter and quicker on the DL? Cody was the aberration, he was the biggest they ever had.

Cody was also a freak in that he fluctuated between 330-350 but moved like he was 300. It's not like Saban was playing immobile hulks in the past.

[lamont]

So because their current NG is 16 pounds lighter than a former one, it shows that Saban is going lighter and quicker on the DL? Cody was the aberration, he was the biggest they ever had.

Holy shit you are arguing just to argue. It's 100% fact Saban is recruiting guys on the DL that are lighter because of Spread offenses. He is no longer defending I-based power offenses- so no need to be as big upfront

[smootness]

Holy shit you are arguing just to argue. It's 100% fact Saban is recruiting guys on the DL that are lighter because of Spread offenses. He is no longer defending I-based power offenses- so no need to be as big upfront

It seems to be a fact that he still has a DL that is huge and bigger than just about anybody else's.

And this would still be an example of someone changing because what they were doing is a dinosaur. Not the case with man-to-man defense in basketball.

[MarketingBully]

Teams issue is youth and depth in the post, that is it. Whether we play man or zone won't make much of a difference. We do everything in spurts right now both good and bad. We have played good defense at times in man and we have been absolutely atrocious at times. Same on offense. The guys just need to continue to grow up and understand the amount of effort that has to be given for an entire game not just for 2-3 minute stretches.

It's this all day. We have shown when we want to play defense we can. When your point guard rotation is Peters/Carter, you are in trouble stopping the dribble/drive. Peters will improve tremendously from this year to next but his emotions this year dictate how he plays. He had 12 turnovers against Alabama and Auburn that in a lot of ways led to losses to both teams. When we had Ready early in the SEC season, we were able to take Peters out when he would get too emotional and have a calming presence in the game. Carter gives us nothing off the bench and Auburn took big time advantage once he came in the game on Tuesday. I like Carter a lot but he is just not ready to play this year. He should only get minutes this year as a three point specialist for this team but we are forcing him to play minutes at the PG and that has killed us since Ready has been out.