Why Ole Miss should be afraid of coming NCAA sanctions

[WSOPdawg]

Warning, Be sure to have a cup of coffee close, because this is somewhat long, but its good for Monday morning discussion.


I find the SMU Death Penalty story from the 1980s fascinating, and for those of you thinking The Cheaters Up North (TCUN) will NOT receive the DP from the NCAA in 2017, I wouldn?t be so sure. While reading about the Pony Express, several other DP cases came to light that while I was aware of, I had somewhat forgotten about.


Morehouse College, 2003
In 2003, the soccer team of Morehouse College in Atlanta was given the Death Penalty by the NCAA while having NOT been previously placed on probation or penalized for infractions. The USA Today article from 2003 (Steve Wieberg, 11/13/2003) quotes the NCAA?s Kay Hawes as saying ?It?s a situation where the committee found there was a complete failure to have a program comply with NCAA rules and that?s not something you see very often.?


Baylor, 2005
Research regarding the Baylor men?s basketball team?s 2004 demise over the murder of a former player, Eric Dotson, (which led Lawrence Roberts to MSU) led to numerous other NCAA violations being uncovered and warranted Death Penalty consideration by the NCAA. With the head coach complicit in the cover-up of Dotson, additional violations included:

(1) paying for player?s tuition;
(2) coaching staff paying for meals, clothing, lodging, transportation;
(3) recruiting violations relating to illegal tryouts;
(4) head coach encouraging boosters to donate to foundation tied to basketball team that
included prospective Baylor recruits (Network anyone???);
(5) failure to report positive drug tests by athletes;
(6) failure by entire coaching staff to ?exercise institutional control over basketball program;?


According to Wikipedia, ?In its final report, the NCAA called the violations at Baylor as serious as those which occurred at SMU almost 20 years earlier. Indeed, Baylor was eligible for the "death penalty" since its men's tennis program was on probation for major violations; the NCAA can hand down the death penalty for a second major violation within five years, even if it occurs in a different sport. However, it praised Baylor for taking prompt action once the violations came to light (in marked contrast to SMU, where there was evidence that administrators knew about the violations and did nothing).?


Several things can be taken from the last paragraph:

First, Baylor WAS eligible for the DP because the tennis team was already on probation. Regarding TCUN, with WBB and men?s track being placed on probation in late October, 2016, they are eligible to be hit with the DP, especially since they may very well have been caught during this last recruiting cycle in late November or December (2016) violating the NCAA rules (AGAIN!!!).

Second, the Baylor administration proactively attacked these problems by firing the head coach and canceling out-of-conference games for the upcoming season. The Cheaters Up North have practically done the exact opposite in terms of taking prompt action. In fact, if rumors are true that the Network continued their act while the NCAA?s investigation was ongoing, woe be unto them!!!

Third, regarding Morehouse? DP ? are we not seeing a complete failure by TCUN to comply with NCAA rules? How so, you might ask?

2013 Tunsil (cash payments from coaches via NFL draft night, loaner cars on 3 or 4 occasions in NOA #1, rumors of housing for parents)

2014 Austin Gohlson (Auburn transfer with rumored immunity for Network info)

2015 Bo Scarborough (Bama RB with rumored immunity for Network info)

2016 Leo Lewis (MSU LB with rumored immunity for Network info)

2016 Greg Little (mother?s recent admission of receiving payment to attend school in Oxford and then backtracking)

2017 Willie Gay (MSU LB rumored to have turned over Network info to NCAA)


Surely lack of institutional control is on the horizon and given that these violations are spanning such a long time-frame and are coming from so many different players, and given what the NCAA did to Morehouse a little more than a decade ago in 2003 (?where there was a complete failure to have a program comply with NCAA rules?) and what they said regarding Baylor in 2005, the argument that the Death Penalty is definitely on the table can definitely be made.

After all, when you?ve been told to shut down improprieties (ie, ongoing investigation since 2013) and continue to violate the governing rules (from 2010 - present), should any one be surprised when it all gets taken away?

[starkvegasdawg]

http://i.imgur.com/EXsmEXX.gif

[bulldogcountry1]

I still don't see the DP happening, but if the NCAA has found that UM won't stop cheating long enough for them to stop their investigation, what other option do they have?

[WSOPdawg]

http://i.imgur.com/EXsmEXX.gif

Not exactly the response I was expecting, but it did make me laugh!!!

[thf24]

If Barney sang as rumored, then they've got them pegged in the Morehouse College situation. If so then things will get very interesting when the 2nd NOA goes public.

[Reason2succeed]

Excellent research. Post more.

The answer is yes the DP will definitely be discussed during the COI. Whether they vote to do it is anyone's guess but the urban myth that the NCAA swore never to do it again is based on alternative facts. They've done it since then on several occasions you did not cite.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

I still don't see the DP happening, but if the NCAA has found that UM won't stop cheating long enough for them to stop their investigation, what other option do they have?

I see alot of people saying that they don't expect DP. Just curious to your reason. Is it because that is what you want but it would be too good to be true and you don't want to jinx it? Because as laid out in the original post, it is possible and I am feeling lately like it is more likely.

[Dawgology]

I see alot of people saying that they don't expect DP. Just curious to your reason. Is it because that is what you want but it would be too good to be true and you don't want to jinx it? Because as laid out in the original post, it is possible and I am feeling lately like it is more likely.

I think this is it exactly. Ya'll are going to start listening to me after all of this.

[BulldogBear]

When reading any of these UMISS penalty threads I hear the 30for30 music in the background of my mind.

[WesternSkyDawg]

I still don't see the DP happening, but if the NCAA has found that UM won't stop cheating long enough for them to stop their investigation, what other option do they have?

The Baylor example may provide another option for the NCAA.

Cancellation of non-conference games would set quite a precedent and send a strong message but limit the damage to other schools. The cancellation could be set a year out to give the other schools time to find another opponent. And if they can't, OM has to pay whatever penalty their individual game contract provides.

A complete DP still seems far-fetched, at least until the 2nd or 3rd NOA comes out. But a modified approach? What was once inconceivable becomes more possible with every passing recruiting class.

[Technetium]

I think the skepticism for the death penalty comes from the lack of verified information recently. This board has broken many stories via rumors/etc., but it's been a while since we had a verified source (national article w/ sources, NOA #2, etc.) be released and say "Yes, the NCAA has uncovered this, this, this, this, and this thanks to immunity-given interviews with person, person, person, and person." Exaggerated, I know, but you get the point. A lot of rumors have been posted on this site, and while several people here have good track records for accuracy, I think most of us are waiting for something more official regarding what has been discovered before we let ourselves really consider DP-level penalties.

[bulldogcountry1]

I see alot of people saying that they don't expect DP. Just curious to your reason. Is it because that is what you want but it would be too good to be true and you don't want to jinx it? Because as laid out in the original post, it is possible and I am feeling lately like it is more likely.


My main reasoning is that I just don't know all the facts, so it's hard for me to expect the worst case punishment. Also, I just couldn't see a big money SEC school being given the DP, unless they kept breaking the rules after sanctions were handed out. But, the more this thing goes on and gets crazier and crazier, it seems possible...if half of the rumors are true.

[Tbonewannabe]

What would a DP do financially to UNM? It isn't like they wouldn't have to pay on their debt while not having games. I would also imagine the SEC would not pay them for the SEC network while they weren't contributing.

[WSOPdawg]

I think the skepticism for the death penalty comes from the lack of verified information recently. This board has broken many stories via rumors/etc., but it's been a while since we had a verified source (national article w/ sources, NOA #2, etc.) be released and say "Yes, the NCAA has uncovered this, this, this, this, and this thanks to immunity-given interviews with person, person, person, and person." Exaggerated, I know, but you get the point. A lot of rumors have been posted on this site, and while several people here have good track records for accuracy, I think most of us are waiting for something more official regarding what has been discovered before we let ourselves really consider DP-level penalties.

A year ago, I would be saying now way in hades is the DP in play.

But now, with the list of non-stop transgressions and the Network's seemingly "thumbing of the nose at the NCAA in lieu of an ongoing investigation (years in the making, mind you), and given that the NCAA recently placed two TCUN athletic programs on probation coupled with the rumors (please let it be true) that they've been caught in this latest recruiting cycle (post WBB and men's tract probation), how can one say that they're not out of control?

Hammer time, baby!!!

[maroonmania]

I think its all just complete guesswork until a second NOA's existence and content are publicly verified. They sure aren't getting the DP off of what was in the first NOA. It would carry a stinging probation but would get them nowhere near the DP.

[Dawgology]

I think its all just complete guesswork until a second NOA's existence and content are publicly verified. They sure aren't getting the DP off of what was in the first NOA. It would carry a stinging probation but would get them nowhere near the DP.

Except that Steve (who has been correct on this the entire time) has said a 2nd NOA is happening.

[maroonmania]

Except that Steve (who has been correct on this the entire time) has said a 2nd NOA is happening.

Yes, but as much as I believe Steve is getting good information, not even he knows specifically what's in it even if we go ahead and make the assumption they are at least getting one.

[WSOPdawg]

Excellent research. Post more.

The answer is yes the DP will definitely be discussed during the COI. Whether they vote to do it is anyone's guess but the urban myth that the NCAA swore never to do it again is based on alternative facts. They've done it since then on several occasions you did not cite.

From 2012, here's Texas Southern with SEC commish Greg Sankey involved in the punishment that almost resulted in the DP except for the cooperation from the university's president and athletic director who fired the school's football coach (which has NOT occurred from the Bdork and company)...

Texas Southern athletics, 2012
In October 2012, the NCAA found Texas Southern University guilty of massive violations in 13 sports over a seven-year period from 2005 to 2012. The most serious violations occurred within the football and men's basketball programs—including academic fraud, illicit benefits given to student athletes, lying on the part of coaches, and lying to the NCAA about self-imposed sanctions. The NCAA deemed TSU a "double repeat violator"; the Tigers had either been on probation or had violations occurring for all but six years since 1992. The NCAA seriously considered a death penalty due to the egregiousness of the violations, as well as TSU's failure to reform itself over the past two decades. However, according to Greg Sankey, chief operating officer of the SEC and a member of the infractions committee, it decided against doing so due to cooperation from President John Rudley and Athletic Director Charles McClelland, as well as the school's corrective measures—including firing football coach Johnnie Cole and forcing the resignation of men's basketball coach Tony Harvey. Instead, the NCAA banned TSU's men's basketball team from the 2013 postseason and banned TSU's football team from the 2013 and 2014 postseason. Earlier, TSU had vacated every game that Tiger teams had won from 2006 to 2010, and vacated all victories in football and women's soccer for the 2010-11 season. [story from Wikipedia]

[Really Clark?]

By NCAA by-laws you have to be a repeat offender for the death penalty to be on the table under normal major violations. Until we see a NOA that lists violations occurring after OCT 2016, then the COI will not consider the death penalty. The only time it has been discussed or used without the repeat offender tag is when major violations are mixed with a major scandal. Penn St, Baylor, Western Kentucky actually self imposed the death penalty in their case because it was so egregious.

Morehouse College was a different type of case as the coaches knowingly brought professional soccer players on the team and hide their identities and their was no institutional control, going as far as some not even realizing they had a soccer program to even check with their compliance. They disbanded soccer before the 2 year death penalty was handed out.

[TrapGame]

A believe a 2 year DP with a resident watchdog/supervisor from the NCAA is very plausible. Especially if the rumors are true about getting caught for a third time in November after the NCAA started its initial investigation.

[WSOPdawg]

By NCAA by-laws you have to be a repeat offender for the death penalty to be on the table under normal major violations. Until we see a NOA that lists violations occurring after OCT 2016, then the COI will not consider the death penalty. The only time it has been discussed or used without the repeat offender tag is when major violations are mixed with a major scandal. Penn St, Baylor, Western Kentucky actually self imposed the death penalty in their case because it was so egregious.

Morehouse College was a different type of case as the coaches knowingly brought professional soccer players on the team and hide their identities and their was no institutional control, going as far as some not even realizing they had a soccer program to even check with their compliance. They disbanded soccer before the 2 year death penalty was handed out.

That's why Women's Basketball and Men's Track being placed on probation in late October, 2016, is so important, especially if the Network was caught in November/December, 2016, during the current recruiting cycle doing business as usual. This would arguably trigger the Repeat Offender status.

From above "Baylor was eligible for the "death penalty" since its men's tennis program was on probation for major violations;"

[Really Clark?]

That's why Women's Basketball and Men's Track being placed on probation in late October, 2016, is so important, especially if the Network was caught in November/December, 2016, during the current recruiting cycle doing business as usual. This would arguably trigger the Repeat Offender status.

From above "Baylor was eligible for the "death penalty" since its men's tennis program was on probation for major violations;"

That's correct. But if the rumors that the 2nd NOA has been received, then I have a hard time seeing anything after Oct '16 making its way on that one. If there is another NOA or if they have not finished with the second one, then maybe we have something. Until we see that second NOA though, it's all speculation. Many have heard of things going on this cycle still, just need to see it in the NOA

[sandwolf]

I see alot of people saying that they don't expect DP. Just curious to your reason. Is it because that is what you want but it would be too good to be true and you don't want to jinx it? Because as laid out in the original post, it is possible and I am feeling lately like it is more likely.

It is delusional to think that the death penalty is even a consideration based on what was in the first NOA. And for it to become a legitimate consideration, the amended NOA would have to be completely nuclear. They would need something like hard evidence of OM coaches actively working with a group of boosters to provide benefits to recruits or players (in other words, solid evidence of the network), or they would need for the Tunsil draft night fiasco to have lead them to hard evidence of a big pay for play scheme involving multiple players totaling large dollar amounts.......the allegations have to be eye popping.

The NCAA has enough to hammer OM, and I think that is exactly what they are going to do. But they aren't going to issue the death penalty to a school that isn't a repeat offender without hard evidence of widespread cheating throughout the program, and that is really hard to come by without subpoena power.

[lamont]

Except that Steve (who has been correct on this the entire time) has said a 2nd NOA is happening.

Elitedawgs stated this also

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

...without hard evidence

This is it. We all know it is happening, it is just whether or not they were smart enough to cover it up. I honestly think the NCAA does have hard evidence of this happening and they are about to go Negan on OM.

[Jarius]

As stated by Steve last week, a second NOA is not coming. It is an addendum to the first NOA. A second NOA would mean 2 different "trials" so to speak and that is not happening. He said that the addendum should come any day now and the punishment should be known by the start of football season. He also said that anyone who thinks a bowl ban isn't coming is an idiot.

[GTHOM]

I would be surprised if they got the death penalty. Not that they are not deserving but the NCAA has said that they would likely never give it again. In my opinion they are going to hit OM hard because they can make an example out of them and also to show everyone they still mean business, been a lot of talk about how bad they screwed their last investigations and the whole Penn St. deal up

[iPat09]

This is it. We all know it is happening, it is just whether or not they were smart enough to cover it up well enough. I honestly think the NCAA does have hard evidence of this happening and they are about to go Negan on OM.

You mean like this?

https://youtu.be/EtebQUwGNO0

[bulldog2488]

Except that Steve (who has been correct on this the entire time) has said a 2nd NOA is happening.

This is not to "nit-pick" but I think I've heard Steve say that there actually wouldn't be a 2nd NOA (which would imply a second investigation), but what would happen is that they would get an amended NOA because the investigation hasn't ended.

MODs you can delete my post! I just saw Jarius' post above.

[Saltydog]

changed his mind after his visit to UM only to return to Saban and beg for his spot back.......It was rumored that Saban told him to confess to the NCAA before he took him back........

[WSOPdawg]

It is delusional to think that the death penalty is even a consideration based on what was in the first NOA. And for it to become a legitimate consideration, the amended NOA would have to be completely nuclear. They would need something like hard evidence of OM coaches actively working with a group of boosters to provide benefits to recruits or players (in other words, solid evidence of the network), or they would need for the Tunsil draft night fiasco to have lead them to hard evidence of a big pay for play scheme involving multiple players totaling large dollar amounts.......the allegations have to be eye popping.

The NCAA has enough to hammer OM, and I think that is exactly what they are going to do. But they aren't going to issue the death penalty to a school that isn't a repeat offender without hard evidence of widespread cheating throughout the program, and that is really hard to come by without subpoena power.

Like Tunsil texts implicating Barney on cash payments, or prospective Tunsil's familyhousing being paid for by a booster, or Coach Hugh Freeze taking prospects to a booster's house for "freebie benefits," or... oh for God's sake, they've been doing this stuff for the better part of a decade now.

This is exactly why Ole Miss should be worried about the NCAA and what they're gonna do to their program. As Dawg-Gone alluded to, here comes Lucille.

[32 Dive]

In regards to the NCAA:

1) They don't necessarily follow precedent.

2) You can almost expect the unexpected.

[smootness]

It is delusional to think that the death penalty is even a consideration based on what was in the first NOA. And for it to become a legitimate consideration, the amended NOA would have to be completely nuclear. They would need something like hard evidence of OM coaches actively working with a group of boosters to provide benefits to recruits or players (in other words, solid evidence of the network), or they would need for the Tunsil draft night fiasco to have lead them to hard evidence of a big pay for play scheme involving multiple players totaling large dollar amounts.......the allegations have to be eye popping.

The NCAA has enough to hammer OM, and I think that is exactly what they are going to do. But they aren't going to issue the death penalty to a school that isn't a repeat offender without hard evidence of widespread cheating throughout the program, and that is really hard to come by without subpoena power.

Exactly this. We can talk all day about rumors of what is going on and what the NCAA has found or may find or whatever. But unless it's on the NOA, it won't affect anything. So we have to see the addendum before we can start to speculate on punishment. The violations in the first NOA are probably good for a bowl ban for a year or two and a pretty significant loss of scholarships. In order to reach a place where they considered the death penalty, the addendum would have to be about 5 times as bad as what is on the initial NOA.

[msbulldog]

What would a DP do financially to UNM? It isn't like they wouldn't have to pay on their debt while not having games. I would also imagine the SEC would not pay them for the SEC network while they weren't contributing.

SEC payout are suspended during probationary period, the school on probation receives 50% of the money at the end of the probation.

[Johnson85]

Like Tunsil texts implicating Barney on cash payments, or prospective Tunsil's familyhousing being paid for by a booster, or Coach Hugh Freeze taking prospects to a booster's house for "freebie benefits," or... oh for God's sake, they've been doing this stuff for the better part of a decade now.

This is exactly why Ole Miss should be worried about the NCAA and what they're gonna do to their program. As Dawg-Gone alluded to, here comes Lucille.

Ole Miss should be worried, but not about the death penalty. The death penaly would impact other members of the conference too much. None of the power conferences woudl want the death penalty to be on the table for any of their members. Sanctions thath cripple a program but dont' mess with TV contracts or scheduling conferences can handle, but they're not going to sign off on a situation that screws up their tv schedule for football, so it's not going to happen. At worst Ole Miss would end up having to fill out a team with mostly walk-ons.

[Tbonewannabe]

SEC payout are suspended during probationary period, the school on probation receives 50% of the money at the end of the probation.

I was referring to if they received the death penalty and didn't have a team. I doubt the SEC would pay them 50% for not fielding a football team. They might but they also could get kicked out of the SEC.

[blacklistedbully]

We DO NOT want UNM to get the death penalty unless we could replace them on our schedule with Vanderbilt. We DO NOT want UNM kicked out of the SEC, because the league would replace them with a better team.

We already have enough killer games on our schedule. We don't want to lose the one opposing team in our division that mostly sucks ass. We especially don't prefer that over a UNM forced to play more by the rules and crippled by sanctions for years.

[Liverpooldawg]

We DO NOT want UNM to get the death penalty unless we could replace them on our schedule with Vanderbilt. We DO NOT want UNM kicked out of the SEC, because the league would replace them with a better team.

We already have enough killer games on our schedule. We don't want to lose the one opposing team in our division that mostly sucks ass. WE especially don't prefer that over a UNM forced to play more by the rules and crippled by sanctions for years.

This

[Dawgology]

We DO NOT want UNM to get the death penalty unless we could replace them on our schedule with Vanderbilt. We DO NOT want UNM kicked out of the SEC, because the league would replace them with a better team.

We already have enough killer games on our schedule. We don't want to lose the one opposing team in our division that mostly sucks ass. WE especially don't prefer that over a UNM forced to play more by the rules and crippled by sanctions for years.

I think having one Mississippi school in the SEC would help us more than hurt us in the long run. Hopefully they would realign the divisions as well.

[Dawgology]

And if I'm living in the dream world. Drop Ole Miss. Scoot Bama and Auburn to the East. West picks up Vandy and Mizzou and then adds Oklahoma State.

Boom done. Even split geographically...just about.

[DownwardDawg]

I think having one Mississippi school in the SEC would help us more than hurt us in the long run. Hopefully they would realign the divisions as well.

This.
Being the only SEC team in Mississippi would trump any new team the SEC brought in.

[Reason2succeed]

This.
Being the only SEC team in Mississippi would trump any new team the SEC brought in.

I agree. If Oklahoma came and gave Bama another potential loss every year that would actually be better for us. Remember when we won the West we were nowhere near undefeated. We just won a tie breaker. We should invite bedlam.

[smootness]

And if I'm living in the dream world. Drop Ole Miss. Scoot Bama and Auburn to the East. West picks up Vandy and Mizzou and then adds Oklahoma State.

Boom done. Even split geographically...just about.

Only problem is, the West would be:
LSU
Arkansas
A&M
State
Vandy
Missouri
OSU

And the East:
Bama
Florida
UGA
Auburn
Tennessee
SC
UK

I get that it's dream world, but it ain't crazy town.

[Reason2succeed]

Only problem is, the West would be:
LSU
Arkansas
A&M
State
Vandy
Missouri
OSU

And the East:
Bama
Florida
UGA
Auburn
Tennessee
SC
UK

I get that it's dream world, but it ain't crazy town.

Oklahoma State would be crazy not to accept the offer. The only two games that really move the needle for them is Bedlam versus OU and Texas. They could schedule Oklahoma as their permanent out of conference game and occasionally Texas too. But in return they get Texas A&M, Arkansas, which is a border state, and LSU. They would instantly increase their profile not to mention their cash.

The only issue is whether the SEC wants to have to deal with T. Boone Pickens but that shouldn't be an issue too much longer. He's getting old.

[Maroonandwhite]

This is fairly amusing. https://omrebelnation.com/a-letter-to-the-ncaa-f2d49abdf1d9#.vfipjtgy0

[smootness]

Oklahoma State would be crazy not to accept the offer. The only two games that really move the needle for them is Bedlam versus OU and Texas. They could schedule Oklahoma as their permanent out of conference game and occasionally Texas too. But in return they get Texas A&M, Arkansas, which is a border state, and LSU. They would instantly increase their profile not to mention their cash.

The only issue is whether the SEC wants to have to deal with T. Boone Pickens but that shouldn't be an issue too much longer. He's getting old.

Of course Oklahoma State would be open to it. I'm saying that from a competitive balance standpoint, there's no way the conference would ever do that. 5 of the top 6 historical programs in the conference would be in the East.

[Dawgology]

This is fairly amusing. https://omrebelnation.com/a-letter-to-the-ncaa-f2d49abdf1d9#.vfipjtgy0

Those dumbasses just can't stop. I really wish they would be removed from the SEC. they are an unprofessional embarrassment.

[Reason2succeed]

Of course Oklahoma State would be open to it. I'm saying that from a competitive balance standpoint, there's no way the conference would ever do that. 5 of the top 6 historical programs in the conference would be in the East.

Well yeah! That's because 3 of the 7 teams in your West scenario are new to the conference. However Missouri does bring their two SEC East titles.

The East has been down so I don't see too much issue. The power simply shifts from the West to the East because of the dominance of Bama.

[smootness]

Well yeah! That's because 3 of the 7 teams in your West scenario are new to the conference. However Missouri does bring their two SEC East titles.

The East has been down so I don't see too much issue. The power simply shifts from the West to the East because of the dominance of Bama.

You're thinking too much about the last 8 or so years. The East was the power in the 90s. It shifts. You can't put that many historical powers in one division or you will permanently tilt the conference.

Bama >> LSU
Florida >> A&M
UGA >> Arkansas
Auburn >> Oklahoma St
Tennessee > Missouri
South Carolina = State
UK > Vandy

[WSOPdawg]

This is fairly amusing. https://omrebelnation.com/a-letter-to-the-ncaa-f2d49abdf1d9#.vfipjtgy0

This is why these Cheats need to be penalized fairly soon, because they're bound to eventually find a loophole to exploit and wiggle off the hook.

The 1st NOA needs to be penalized and then move forward to address the 2nd NOA. Amending or adding an addendum to the 1st NOA may be a big mistake if the NCAA chooses to go that route.

[smootness]

"Here’s the question you will have to answer in front of a judge one day:
Would the players who received these impermissible benefits have needed or wanted these impermissible benefits if they hadn’t been forbidden from getting the money they deserved at the time these things happened?"

Um, yes.

That was easy.

[MedDawg]

Oklahoma State would be crazy not to accept the offer. The only two games that really move the needle for them is Bedlam versus OU and Texas. They could schedule Oklahoma as their permanent out of conference game and occasionally Texas too. But in return they get Texas A&M, Arkansas, which is a border state, and LSU. They would instantly increase their profile not to mention their cash.

The only issue is whether the SEC wants to have to deal with T. Boone Pickens but that shouldn't be an issue too much longer. He's getting old.

Oklahoma State wouldn't think twice about dropping Texas off their schedule, and probably wouldn't mind dropping Oklahoma. Just like A&M didn't care about dropping Texas and Oklahoma.

If OM left the SEC we wouldn't play them anymore either. It wouldn't be like Florida playing out of conference Florida State every year, it would be like how Florida stopped playing Miami and we stopped playing Southern Miss. Continuing to play OM would just give them a chance to beat us and help their program. Of course, then the Mississippi Legislature would step in and try to force us to play OM.

[Liverpooldawg]

This is fairly amusing. https://omrebelnation.com/a-letter-to-the-ncaa-f2d49abdf1d9#.vfipjtgy0

I'm sure that will help their case. Perhaps they need to hire some protesters in Indianapolis.

[1bigdawg]

You're thinking too much about the last 8 or so years. The East was the power in the 90s. It shifts. You can't put that many historical powers in one division or you will permanently tilt the conference.

Bama >> LSU
Florida >> A&M
UGA >> Arkansas
Auburn >> Oklahoma St
Tennessee > Missouri
South Carolina = State
UK > Vandy

Substitute U Oklahoma for OSU and it looks different

Bama >> LSU
Oklahoma >> Florida
A&M = Georgia
Auburn > Arkansas
Tennessee > Missouri
South Carolina = State
UK > Vandy

Still not balanced, but MUCH closer.

[smootness]

Substitute U Oklahoma for OSU and it looks different

Bama >> LSU
Oklahoma >> Florida
A&M = Georgia
Auburn > Arkansas
Tennessee > Missouri
South Carolina = State
UK > Vandy

Still not balanced, but MUCH closer.

You think Oklahoma is clearly better than Florida as a program? What the? That is at worst equal. And UGA has a better program than A&M.

[blacklistedbully]

"Here’s the question you will have to answer in front of a judge one day:
Would the players who received these impermissible benefits have needed or wanted these impermissible benefits if they hadn’t been forbidden from getting the money they deserved at the time these things happened?"

Um, yes.

That was easy.

"I’m sure you’ll have a “yeah, but…” answer to this,"

Should have said, "I’m sure you’ll have a “I'd have to say, yeah, but…” answer to this,"

[Dawgology]

Actually: (stats as of 2015)

Alabama — 864-299-42, .734 winning percentage; Bowls: 35-24-3, .589
Arkansas — 660-452-37, .591; Bowls: 14-23-3, .388
Auburn — 708-411-43, .628; Bowls: 22-14-2, .605
Florida — 664-397-37, .622; Bowls: 21-20, .512
Georgia — 751-387-50, .653; Bowls: 28-18-3, .602
Kentucky — 462-530-36, .467; 8-7, .533
LSU — 731-388-47, .647; Bowls: 23-22-1, .511
Mississippi State — 540-528-37, .505; Bowls: 10-8, .556
Missouri — 605-505-50, .543; Bowls: 15-16, .484
Ole Miss — 615-482-34, .559; 23-13, .639
South Carolina — 550-520-41, .514; Bowls: 8-12, .400
Tennessee — 811–367–53 .688; 26-24, .520
Texas A&M — 687-448-44, .601; 17-19, .472
Vanderbilt — 523-568-43, .480; Bowls: 4-2-1, .643

[Dawgology]

And OSU has a .517 win percentage (approximately) and is 16-10 in bowl games

[Dawgology]

Oklahoma: .721 with 28-20 in bowl games.

They would definitely balance the divisions better than OSU. Lets fix the SEC!