Best explanation I heard yesterday on Brady vs Montana

[lamont]

Said that Montana was the greatest of his era and Brady is the greatest of his era. Today's more pass-oriented game with more restrictive defensive rules and QB protection just isn't the same game it was 25 years ago.

This is something I'll agree with.

Sammy Baugh was the greatest of his era
Johnny Unitas was the greatest of his era
Joe Montana was the greatest of his era
And now Tom Brady is the greatest of this era.

Pretty good QB Mount Rushmore

[The Federalist Engineer]

If Jim McMahon had not been destroyed physically, the bears would have won 3 or 4 Super Bowls. Further, placing the same premium value on QBs as today, Steve Young could not have been a backup for so long. The salary cap would not allow two marquee QBs

[BrunswickDawg]

I think your eras are too broad. I'd say Baugh, Unitas, Bradshaw, Montana, Elway, Brady.
Those almost hand the reigns of the GOAT title from one to the next.

[Todd4State]

I can agree with that RP.

[ShotgunDawg]

But Brady has 5 Super Bowls & Montana has 4 Super Bowls.

Sure the game has changed, but your always playing against teams that are playing under the same rules as you. Brady's 5th Super Bowl makes him the greatest eva

It is true that Montana was the best QB of his era, but Brady is the best QB of all eras.

[lamont]

If Jim McMahon had not been destroyed physically, the bears would have won 3 or 4 Super Bowls. Further, placing the same premium value on QBs as today, Steve Young could not have been a backup for so long. The salary cap would not allow two marquee QBs

One thing is for sure- there will never again be a group of defenses that existed in the 1980's. The Bears, Giants, and 49'ers put together some hellacious D's that absolutely destroyed people. Philly's wasn't too bad either under Buddy Ryan with Reggie White. That's another reason I've always factored Montana as the GOAT. 4 SB's in the 80's vs the defensive talent in the NFC was remarkable.

But different eras- different challenges

[lamont]

But Brady has 5 Super Bowls & Montana has 4 Super Bowls.

Sure the game has changed, but your always playing against teams that are playing under the same rules as you. Brady's 5th Super Bowl makes him the greatest eva

It is true that Montana was the best QB of his era, but Brady is the best QB of all eras.

That's not true

Bart Starr won 5 titles and Otto Graham won more than that. So Brady getting a 5th doesn't separate anything. Just makes him the best of his era

[confucius say]

Anybody not willing to say Brady is the goat at this point is either trolling or just likes another qb more than Brady. It's not even debatable anymore.

[lamont]

Anybody not willing to say Brady is the goat at this point is either trolling or just likes another qb more than Brady. It's not even debatable anymore.

Again- bullshit

Otto Graham took his team to 9 straight championship games- winning 7 titles. He is the most dominant QB in the history of the NFL. If you aren't willing to concede eras- then Otto Graham is the best QB in NFL history

[The Federalist Engineer]

One thing we can agree is that Trent Dilfer is still the worst QB to win a super bowl and Rex Grossman is still the worst QB to ever play in a super bowl, they are Era neutral.

[HSVDawg]

Again- bullshit

Otto Graham took his team to 9 straight championship games- winning 7 titles. He is the most dominant QB in the history of the NFL. If you aren't willing to concede eras- then Otto Graham is the best QB in NFL history

Only 3 of Graham's 7 titles were in the NFL. The other 4 were pre-merger in the AAFC. Just sayin.

ETA: The AAFC had a grand total of 8 teams. Pretty hard to equate 4 championships from an 8 team league with 4 Super Bowl victories in a 32 team league. Although Graham definitely was one of the all-time greats. There is no disputing that.

[Tbonewannabe]

One thing we can agree is that Trent Dilfer is still the worst QB to win a super bowl and Rex Grossman is still the worst QB to ever play in a super bowl, they are Era neutral.

This isn't theory, this is law.

[dawgday166]

If Jim McMahon had not been destroyed physically, the bears would have won 3 or 4 Super Bowls. Further, placing the same premium value on QBs as today, Steve Young could not have been a backup for so long. The salary cap would not allow two marquee QBs

Lol. Don't agree. Montana ate the 4-6 D for breakfast, as displayed when he went into Chicago in -28 degrees and howling winds to win 3rd NFC Championship 28 - 3. You blitz Joe and he'd kill you.

And ole Steve would have went and floundered somewhere else like a Tampa Bay where he had floundered badly prior to getting traded to San Fran.

[dawgday166]

I think your eras are too broad. I'd say Baugh, Unitas, Bradshaw, Montana, Elway, Brady.
Those almost hand the reigns of the GOAT title from one to the next.

Elway!! haha. He only won a SB cause he could hand off to Terrell Davis the whole game.

[Tbonewannabe]

Elway!! haha. He only won a SB cause he could hand off to Terrell Davis the whole game.

Elway was Dan Marino with a run game and defense.

[lamont]

Only 3 of Graham's 7 titles were in the NFL. The other 4 were pre-merger in the AAFC. Just sayin.

ETA: The AAFC had a grand total of 8 teams. Pretty hard to equate 4 championships from an 8 team league with 4 Super Bowl victories in a 32 team league. Although Graham definitely was one of the all-time greats. There is no disputing that.


The AAFC was the NFL before they gave it the NFL name

[HSVDawg]

The AAFC was the NFL before they gave it the NFL name

Did you completely gloss over the fact that it was an 8 team league?

[msstate7]

Montana threw a td pass 5.1% of passes
Brady throws a td pass 5.5% of passes

Brady has won 78% of his games
Montana won 71.3% of his games

Brady is 5/7 in Super Bowls
Montana is 5/5

Combined NFL MVP and super bowl MVP awards...

Brady = 7
Montana = 6

[msstate7]

Elway!! haha. He only won a SB cause he could hand off to Terrell Davis the whole game.

Hmmm... '99 much?

[HoopsDawg]

Situation, coaches, and support cast all play a major factor. No one can convince me that Marino and Elway aren't 2 of the greatest of all time.

[msstate7]

Elway was Dan Marino with a run game and defense.

Lol... Denver had no run game before the back-to-back SB wins. Elway was the offense for the '86, '87, and '89 teams that made the super bowl

[BorneDawg]

I think your eras are too broad. I'd say Baugh, Unitas, Bradshaw, Montana, Elway, Brady.
Those almost hand the reigns of the GOAT title from one to the next.

THIS

[PassInterference]

Said that Montana was the greatest of his era and Brady is the greatest of his era. Today's more pass-oriented game with more restrictive defensive rules and QB protection just isn't the same game it was 25 years ago.

This is something I'll agree with.

Sammy Baugh was the greatest of his era
Johnny Unitas was the greatest of his era
Joe Montana was the greatest of his era
And now Tom Brady is the greatest of this era.

Pretty good QB Mount Rushmore

That's really the only way to look at it. Montana and the rest didn't have pass-friendly rules. No such thing as a defenseless player. You could the QB high. You could hit the QB low. You could concuss the WR. There was no tuck rule. And there sure as hell was no rule named for Montana.

[HoopsDawg]

Montana threw a td pass 5.1% of passes
Brady throws a td pass 5.5% of passes

Brady has won 78% of his games
Montana won 71.3% of his games

Brady is 5/7 in Super Bowls
Montana is 5/5

Combined NFL MVP and super bowl MVP awards...

Brady = 7
Montana = 6

Of course Brady did it with 3 white guys at WR and Montana had Rice and Taylor. Dynasties are over and Brady has done it with a bunch of different guys.

[msstate7]

Of course Brady did it with 3 white guys at WR and Montana had Rice and Taylor. Dynasties are over and Brady has done it with a bunch of different guys.

Brady is better. There's no doubt in my mind.

[RocketCityDawg]

Anybody who says, "There's no debate" this guy is the greatest, is out of touch. Of course there is debate. I like the breaking it into eras. Also, I would respect Brady more if he didn't whine like a little bitch every time he gets hit.
And if your only criteria is Championships, then, you're saying that Dilfer is better than Marino and a lot of other really good QB's.
Bottom line, there is debate and everybody gets to have their own opinion.
Hell, if Ryan doesn't take that sack, the Falcons probably win. Does that make Brady less of a QB if that would have happened? No!

[Tbonewannabe]

Anybody who says, "There's no debate" this guy is the greatest, is out of touch. Of course there is debate. I like the breaking it into eras. Also, I would respect Brady more if he didn't whine like a little bitch every time he gets hit.
And if your only criteria is Championships, then, you're saying that Dilfer is better than Marino and a lot of other really good QB's.
Bottom line, there is debate and everybody gets to have their own opinion.
Hell, if Ryan doesn't take that sack, the Falcons probably win. Does that make Brady less of a QB if that would have happened? No!

The sack and then the holding penalty. Don't forget Matthews putting the sleeper hold on the DE.

[Tbonewannabe]

Lol... Denver had no run game before the back-to-back SB wins. Elway was the offense for the '86, '87, and '89 teams that made the super bowl

I personally put Elway right above Kelly and Marino. Not sure if I put them in the same category as Montana and Brady though. Aikman is up there also even though I dislike him more than any other QB in that era.

[BrunswickDawg]

Lol... Denver had no run game before the back-to-back SB wins. Elway was the offense for the '86, '87, and '89 teams that made the super bowl

Elway WAS their run game in '86, '87, & '89 - at least in the playoffs.
Also, there aren't many QB's to make 5 SB's

[Dawg61]

Brady is the GOAT!

[sandwolf]

Said that Montana was the greatest of his era and Brady is the greatest of his era. Today's more pass-oriented game with more restrictive defensive rules and QB protection just isn't the same game it was 25 years ago.

This is something I'll agree with.

Sammy Baugh was the greatest of his era
Johnny Unitas was the greatest of his era
Joe Montana was the greatest of his era
And now Tom Brady is the greatest of this era.

Pretty good QB Mount Rushmore

Wow, I think this is the first time I have seen you back off of a polarizing position and agree to a legitimate, well reasoned compromise. Props to you.

[Commercecomet24]

Said that Montana was the greatest of his era and Brady is the greatest of his era. Today's more pass-oriented game with more restrictive defensive rules and QB protection just isn't the same game it was 25 years ago.

This is something I'll agree with.

Sammy Baugh was the greatest of his era
Johnny Unitas was the greatest of his era
Joe Montana was the greatest of his era
And now Tom Brady is the greatest of this era.

Pretty good QB Mount Rushmore

Pretty good analysis. That's a dang good perspective.You got to add Otto Graham too. He won 7 NFL championships in 10 years.

[The Federalist Engineer]

That 28-3 in Chicago was a great victory for SF. Jerry was completely unstoppable that day. But Mac was coming of injury and the Bear secondary was dog meat that season and even worse the following season. Drafted Donnell Woolford after the 6-10 season in 1989 to fix the CB position. Note, that was closer to the end of Singletary era at MLB and without Buddy Ryan.

But Joe and Jerry lit the bears up, that's for sure and won the SB.

[confucius say]

Again- bullshit

Otto Graham took his team to 9 straight championship games- winning 7 titles. He is the most dominant QB in the history of the NFL. If you aren't willing to concede eras- then Otto Graham is the best QB in NFL history

Who cares what Otto did a century ago in part time, 8 team league? Please dude. Don't bring that weak game of checkers to a chess match.

[blacklistedbully]

When Montana took over in SF, the 49ers had been terrible for years. In the 7 previous years, they had zero playoff appearances and 6 losing season.

By contrast, when Brady took over for NE, they had been to 4 playoffs in the previous 7 years, with just two losing seasons.

Also, when Montana started for the 49ers, the NFC was the dominant league, winning 8 of 10 Super Bowls, 5 in ass-whooping fashion over the AFC's best. During Brady's time, it's been more of a mix (11 of 17 for AFC), and only one ass-whooping by the AFC in that time. Seems obvious the NFC in Montana's time was a bigger beast to slay than the AFC in Brady's time.

Clearly, Montana walked into a tougher situation.

Finally, does anyone really doubt, had Montana not been knocked out vs the Giants in the 1991 NFC CG, and had RB Roger Craig not fumbled on their last possession, the 49ers and Montana win yet another SB? Now consider that vicious hit in '91 sidelined Montana for 2 years, and he never got the starting job back in SF.

SF remained a contender under Steve Young until '98. By that time, elite players were eager to join the powerhouse Montana had helped build. The what-ifs of a healthy Joe Montana remaining the starter in SF from '92 on is fun to consider.

[KB21]

Situation, coaches, and support cast all play a major factor. No one can convince me that Marino and Elway aren't 2 of the greatest of all time.

No one could/can spin it like Marino could, and it's really not that close. If you are judging the quarterbacks on a team stat, wins, then yes. You will choose Brady. If you judge QBs on their ability to completely control the game with their arm, Dan Marino has no equal.

[smootness]

Wow, I think this is the first time I have seen you back off of a polarizing position and agree to a legitimate, well reasoned compromise. Props to you.

Nope, this is yet another example of RP refusing to acknowledge something he said in the past is no longer true. Since he has realized he can no longer claim Montana is better than Brady, he has to find some way Montana can still be the best.

[DeputyDawg94]

Y'all are all crazy. Everybody knows Eli is the real GOAT.****

[Commercecomet24]

Of course Brady did it with 3 white guys at WR and Montana had Rice and Taylor. Dynasties are over and Brady has done it with a bunch of different guys.

Exactly! The rules are more offense oriented now but Brady plays with a different cast every year cause of the salary cap. Montana had virtually the same players every single year. Also Montana played under the same offensive scheme(west coast). Brady has played under at least 3 different offensive systems in New England(they've run Ehrhardt read and streak, west coast, spread and all combinations of philosphies). Also players are bigger, faster and defenses more complex so everything pretty much evens out. There are truly great players from every era and its extremely hard to compare. I loved Joe Montana. To me him and Brady were about dead even yesterday but Brady elevated himself yesterday. One reason I love this board so much is all this great discussion. Truly fun to be apart of.

[Commercecomet24]

Nope, this is yet another example of RP refusing to acknowledge something he said in the past is no longer true. Since he has realized he can no longer claim Montana is better than Brady, he has to find some way Montana can still be the best.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to smootness again.