Montana is now the #2 GOAT

[lamont]

Tom Brady will always be #2

The greatest doesnt get the **** beat out of him in the SB

[preachermatt83]

This all day!!

[dawgday166]

It ain't over yet but either way ... of all the great players in NFL history ... my first pick in that draft would be Joe.

[msstate7]

I don't know... This is Brady's 17th year and he's in a super bowl. Montana didn't play but 16 and he's wasn't near as good his last 2 years at KC. Another thing is NE can put different receivers around Brady, but doesn't matter... Brady keeps rolling

[fader2103]

Top 5 for me

1. Joe Montana
2. Tom Brady
3. Terry Bradshaw
4. Johnny U/ Peyton Manning
5. Steve Young

[lamont]

I don't know... This is Brady's 17th year and he's in a super bowl. Montana didn't play but 16 and he's wasn't near as good his last 2 years at KC

Montana carried those teams farther than they should have gone. If the 49'ers dont have a HOF back-up QB in Steve Young- Montana never leaves SF and wins his 5th SB in 1993 or 1994. He kinda got screwed over because the 49'er organization was so good back then.

[msstate7]

Brady's rating this year is 112.2. Montana topped that one time in '89.

Career rating...
Montana -- 92.3
Brady -- 97.2

Montana had perhaps the best wr ever almost all his career

[dawgday166]

I don't know... This is Brady's 17th year and he's in a super bowl. Montana didn't play but 16 and he's wasn't near as good his last 2 years at KC. Another thing is NE can put different receivers around Brady, but doesn't matter... Brady keeps rolling

Joe had Rice & Taylor for only 2 of his 4 Superbowls. Not all 4. Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon were his receivers for his 1st two SBs. He also was in AFC Title game his last year in KC and was knocked out with a concussion (his 3rd). He retired after that one.

[dawgday166]

Brady's rating this year is 112.2. Montana topped that one time in '89.

Career rating...
Montana -- 92.3
Brady -- 97.2

Montana had perhaps the best wr ever almost all his career

Had Rice 6 of his 16 years. 85 - 90.

ETA: I'm not saying Brady ain't great .. he is. I just know if I want a clutch QB ... it's Joe Cool.

[msstate7]

If super bowl wins are the ultimate determinate of qb greatness, then Eli > Brady, no?

[dawgday166]

Montana carried those teams farther than they should have gone. If the 49'ers dont have a HOF back-up QB in Steve Young- Montana never leaves SF and wins his 5th SB in 1993 or 1994. He kinda got screwed over because the 49'er organization was so good back then.

Without a doubt IMO.

[lamont]

Montana had perhaps the best wr ever almost all his career

Freddie Soloman? Jerry Rice was on only 2 Montana SB teams

Montana's 1st 2 SB's were won with Wendell Tyler and Freddie Soloman

[basedog]

Times are different with free agents, Montana, having the greatest wide receiver is a big big reason Montana and Young had also.
Montana was great but so is Brady, I can't say I would choose one over the other. Coin flip for me.

[dawgday166]

Freddie Soloman? Jerry Rice was on only 2 Montana SB teams

Montana's 1st 2 SB's were won with Wendell Tyler and Freddie Soloman

Dwight Clark at WR. Wendell was RB is 2nd SB, with Roger Craig as FB. Earl Cooper and Bill Ring were RBs in 1st SB.

ETA: No HOFs in that group either.

[msstate7]

Tom Brady will always be #2

The greatest doesnt get the **** beat out of him in the SB

Looks like you jumped the gun like me yesterday with basketball

[dawgday166]

Don't count Brady out ... and I wasn't when this thread started. He pretty damn good too.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

If super bowl wins are the ultimate determinate of qb greatness, then Eli > Brady, no?

Last time I check 4 was greater than 2

[msstate7]

Remember Montana vs Cincinnati from about this field position? Let's see if Brady can do it

[msstate7]

Last time I check 4 was greater than 2

Eli 2-0 vs Brady in Super Bowls. Fwiw, I don't think Eli even close to Brady

[dawgday166]

Remember Montana vs Cincinnati from about this field position? Let's see if Brady can do it

And 0:05 difference in amount of time. 1 yd difference in field position.

[maroonmania]

Don't count Brady out ... and I wasn't when this thread started. He pretty damn good too.

Yep, looking like this one is probably coming down to a 2 point conversion.

[fader2103]

I don't care what anyone says. Montana played in a league where the QB was still headhunted, the receivers could get hit over 5 yards down the field. It was a totally different league at that point

[dawgday166]

I don't care what anyone says. Montana played in a league where the QB was still headhunted, the receivers could get hit over 5 yards down the field. It was a totally different league at that point

And with Lawrence Taylor facing him in the playoffs most every year. Not saying these guys these days ain't good .. but LT was toouugh. And they didn't make left tackles then like they do now.

[msstate7]

I hate Montana and I hate Brady, but Brady is the best

[DownwardDawg]

I hate Montana and I hate Brady, but Brady is the best

Regardless of this game, Brady is by far the best ever.

[Commercecomet24]

Tom Brady will always be #2

The greatest doesnt get the **** beat out of him in the SB

You were saying?

[Commercecomet24]

Regardless of this game, Brady is by far the best ever.

Absolutely 100%!

[lamont]

You were saying?

He's still #2

This choke job by Atlanta is legendary

[msstate7]

He's still #2

This choke job by Atlanta is legendary
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 rings... you wrong

[dawgday166]

Can't really argue against Brady IMO. I'll still take Joe tho. It really is a coin flip for the most part.

[Bully13]

Brady and I the pats bout to break some hearts and rewrite the record books. Book it. Sealed.

[Tbonewannabe]

Way to jinx Random. Brady now Goat. Montana #2.

[msstate7]

Brady, you're the best and just won a super bowl... go out like this

[Hot Rock]

Montana 2?? Really? I can think of several better myself, certainly Brady is one though. Thanks for the jinx RD.

[HSVDawg]

Tom Brady will always be #2

The greatest doesnt get the **** beat out of him in the SB

Does this count as a prediction?

[Mutt the Hoople]

Tom Brady will always be #2

The greatest doesnt get the **** beat out of him in the SB
The greatest does come back from a 25 point deficit, and wins in overtime (note: it pains me to say it. I'm not a Brady fan, but he's just shown us he's the second greatest QB of all time- after Dak Prescott).

[msstate7]

The greatest does come back from a 25 point deficit, and wins in overtime (note: it pains me to say it. I'm not a Brady fan, but he's just shown us he's the second greatest QB of all time- after Dak Prescott).

Lol... nice

[Sacrifice]

I'll always be a Montana fan but Brady is the GOAT!

[basedog]

RP, C34 would kick your ass on football knowledge*****

Change my mind, Brady just had the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history. Brady ain't thru either!

[dawgday166]

I'll always be a Montana fan but Brady is the GOAT!

Can't argue. Don't see any others on this very short list tho ... regardless of career regular season stats. Lots of guys can throw it 50 times a game.

[Commercecomet24]

He's still #2

This choke job by Atlanta is legendary

Well you like facts so here's one. No one has ever led a team back from 21 down in super bowl. Doesn't matter what the falcons did the pats won, that is a fact! Also no one has 5 sb rings but Brady at qb, fact.

[dawgday166]

The greatest does come back from a 25 point deficit, and wins in overtime (note: it pains me to say it. I'm not a Brady fan, but he's just shown us he's the second greatest QB of all time- after Dak Prescott).

He'll be 3rd once Dan gets thru developing Fitz.

[DownwardDawg]

He's still #2

This choke job by Atlanta is legendary

Lol. Brady is in a league of his own.

[Dawgface]

Brady undisputed best of all time now.

[Todd4State]

If super bowl wins are the ultimate determinate of qb greatness, then Eli > Brady, no?

Eli would have to win three more. He will be lucky to last three seasons.

[Todd4State]

Brady's rating this year is 112.2. Montana topped that one time in '89.

Career rating...
Montana -- 92.3
Brady -- 97.2

Montana had perhaps the best wr ever almost all his career

Comparing football stats from the 80's to football stats today would be like me trying to compare baseball stats from the 1900's to baseball stats today. It's a totally different game now than the one Montana QB in. The 49ers had one of the most pass happy offenses in the league and they rarely threw the ball more than 25-30 times. That would be considered run heavy today. Different rules that allow the WR's more plus QB's are protected more than ever as well. Montana missed at least two seasons because he got knocked out on plays that I have no question would be illegal now and probably would have gotten the defensive player ejected.

Babe Ruth was a better player than Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds even though Aaron and Bonds have more career home runs.

Also- get back to me when someone accuses Montana of cheating in a game.

[msstate7]

Comparing football stats from the 80's to football stats today would be like me trying to compare baseball stats from the 1900's to baseball stats today. It's a totally different game now than the one Montana QB in. The 49ers had one of the most pass happy offenses in the league and they rarely threw the ball more than 25-30 times. That would be considered run heavy today. Different rules that allow the WR's more plus QB's are protected more than ever as well. Montana missed at least two seasons because he got knocked out on plays that I have no question would be illegal now and probably would have gotten the defensive player ejected.

Babe Ruth was a better player than Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds even though Aaron and Bonds have more career home runs.

Also- get back to me when someone accuses Montana of cheating in a game.

Brady lost a complete season in his prime ('08)

[archdog]

If super bowl wins are the ultimate determinate of qb greatness, then Eli > Brady, no?

Eli has 2 and before today Brady has 4. Not sure what you were getting at.

[Dawg61]

Brady is GOAT!

[DownwardDawg]

Brady lost a complete season in his prime ('08)

Some people will never accept it. The only ones that don't say Brady is the GOAT are the people who absolutely hate him. Those of us that don't care either way, (never been a Pats fan), know without a shadow of a doubt that Brady is the GOAT.

[HSVDawg]

Comparing football stats from the 80's to football stats today would be like me trying to compare baseball stats from the 1900's to baseball stats today. It's a totally different game now than the one Montana QB in. The 49ers had one of the most pass happy offenses in the league and they rarely threw the ball more than 25-30 times. That would be considered run heavy today. Different rules that allow the WR's more plus QB's are protected more than ever as well. Montana missed at least two seasons because he got knocked out on plays that I have no question would be illegal now and probably would have gotten the defensive player ejected.

Babe Ruth was a better player than Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds even though Aaron and Bonds have more career home runs.

Also- get back to me when someone accuses Montana of cheating in a game.

I think the bigger difference between then and now isn't necessarily that many more passes, but more plays in general. The 1990 49ers with Montana averaged 36 passes per game (not 25-30), and I'm sure most of his other teams were similar. And the one thing you can't dispute regardless of the era is championships. And the supporting cast Brady has pales in comparison to what Montana had to work with.

[Todd4State]

Brady lost a complete season in his prime ('08)

Montana lost two- 1991 and almost all of 1992. Not to mention he played most of 1987 after having his spine fused. RP is right about him sort of getting screwed by the 49ers success. If they don't have Young they hold onto Montana through 1994 and he wins the Super Bowl again not to mention I think the 49ers would have probably three peated in 1990 had he not been knocked out again on a play that would be illegal today. Also there was a NFL strike in 1982 that cost him a few games plus you had the Montana/Young controversy where Walsh wanted to start Young and that cost Montana at least three-six games a year usually against people like the Jets where he could have padded his stats.

[msstate7]

Eli has 2 and before today Brady has 4. Not sure what you were getting at.

Giants and pats faced 2 times in super bowl and Eli won both. It was just a point that super bowl results aren't the only determinate in qb greatness. In no way was I saying Eli is even in the same universe as Brady

[msstate7]

Montana lost two- 1991 and almost all of 1992. Not to mention he played most of 1987 after having his spine fused. RP is right about him sort of getting screwed by the 49ers success. If they don't have Young they hold onto Montana through 1994 and he wins the Super Bowl again not to mention I think the 49ers would have probably three peated in 1990 had he not been knocked out again on a play that would be illegal today. Also there was a NFL strike in 1982 that cost him a few games plus you had the Montana/Young controversy where Walsh wanted to start Young and that cost Montana at least three-six games a year usually against people like the Jets where he could have padded his stats.

Maybe, just maybe young was better than Montana when the 49ers made the move. No, it was undeniable imo that young was superior to montana at that stage of their careers

Young career qb rating = 96.8
Montana = 92.3

[Todd4State]

I think the bigger difference between then and now isn't necessarily that many more passes, but more plays in general. The 1990 49ers with Montana averaged 36 passes per game (not 25-30), and I'm sure most of his other teams were similar. And the one thing you can't dispute regardless of the era is championships. And the supporting cast Brady has pales in comparison to what Montana had to work with.

Name his WR's, TE's and RB's from his first two Super Bowls. Hint- Jerry Rice didn't play on either one. The 49ers did start to change the NFL in regards to throwing the ball more. I'm sure that average is upped some because if they were behind they would start to throw it more- I remember times where they would throw it as high as 50 times at least- but I think if you asked Walsh at that time, his ideal would be throwing it about 25-30 times a game. John Taylor, Brent Jones, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman- none of them are in the HOF. Craig might get there one day. None of their o-linemen have a legit shot. Dwight Clark wouldn't be known at all if it wasn't for Montana- and I think you could say that for a lot of their other players. In fact, I think the fact that so many people think that they were loaded with talent and looked so good as is a testament to Montana making them look good at times.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

He's still #2

This choke job by Atlanta is legendary

Montana wears Brady pajamas. You are wrong. Just admit it. Hanging on to such a silly thought is sad

[dawgday166]

Maybe, just maybe young was better than Montana when the 49ers made the move. No, it was undeniable imo that young was superior to montana at that stage of their careers

Young career qb rating = 96.8
Montana = 92.3

I'll accept the fact that that Brady is the GOAT. Cannot argue it. Never will I acknowledge Young is even on a par with Montana.

Young was never better than Montana while Montana was playing, or ever for that matter. Young never could get past his 2nd receiver or he took off running. That's why he has such a high QB rating. And in the 1 NFC Title game he won ... he was 13 - 30 (if I recall correctly) passing against the Cowboys. Deion Sanders won that NFC title game for them by shutting down Alvin Harper.

In the 1993 NFC Title game (1992 Season) when they lost to the Boys 30 - 20, he played horrible in that one too. Yet Seifert, with the greatest come from behind QB ever (at that time) ready to go on the bench, wouldn't put Joe in the game.

All Young did was pester coaches about wanting to play the whole time Joe was in San Fran. Joe almost single handedly took KC to the AFC Title game 2 years later, and beat both Young and Elway in head to head matchups.

[Todd4State]

Maybe, just maybe young was better than Montana when the 49ers made the move. No, it was undeniable imo that young was superior to montana at that stage of their careers

Young career qb rating = 96.8
Montana = 92.3

What years are those from? Walsh wanted to start Young and none of the coaches wanted to do it in 1988. In fact, the 49ers were 6-5 at one point and things came to a head and they decided to start Montana again exclusively- 49ers won the Super Bowl and went undefeated. In 1989 they started Young a few times usually against lesser teams to try to keep Montana healthy- easier competition equals better numbers. And then in 1994 Montana and Young went head to head with Montana having a team with much lesser talent and beat the crap out of the 49ers. Having lesser talent with the Chiefs- JJ Birden and I think the other guy was Willie Davis couldn't possibly have contributed to lesser numbers at all could it?

The only reason Young got the job was because Montana got hurt and Young was younger at the time and they decided that the better move in the long run at that point was to trade Joe.

[msstate7]

I think the bigger difference between then and now isn't necessarily that many more passes, but more plays in general. The 1990 49ers with Montana averaged 36 passes per game (not 25-30), and I'm sure most of his other teams were similar. And the one thing you can't dispute regardless of the era is championships. And the supporting cast Brady has pales in comparison to what Montana had to work with.

Brady has avg'd 34.7 att/game
Montana has avg'd 28.1 att/game

That is a significant difference, but not a crazy amount

[basedog]

Name his WR's, TE's and RB's from his first two Super Bowls. Hint- Jerry Rice didn't play on either one. The 49ers did start to change the NFL in regards to throwing the ball more. I'm sure that average is upped some because if they were behind they would start to throw it more- I remember times where they would throw it as high as 50 times at least- but I think if you asked Walsh at that time, his ideal would be throwing it about 25-30 times a game. John Taylor, Brent Jones, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman- none of them are in the HOF. Craig might get there one day. None of their o-linemen have a legit shot. Dwight Clark wouldn't be known at all if it wasn't for Montana- and I think you could say that for a lot of their other players. In fact, I think the fact that so many people think that they were loaded with talent and looked so good as is a testament to Montana making them look good at times.

Dude,Motana was great, know one Is disagreeing with that fact. But Brady is the best ever, winning 5 Super Bowls and staying healthy for the most part is remarkable. He ain't done either, I ain't a Pats fan either.

[msstate7]

What years are those from? Walsh wanted to start Young and none of the coaches wanted to do it in 1988. In fact, the 49ers were 6-5 at one point and things came to a head and they decided to start Montana again exclusively- 49ers won the Super Bowl and went undefeated. In 1989 they started Young a few times usually against lesser teams to try to keep Montana healthy- easier competition equals better numbers. And then in 1994 Montana and Young went head to head with Montana having a team with much lesser talent and beat the crap out of the 49ers. Having lesser talent with the Chiefs- JJ Birden and I think the other guy was Willie Davis couldn't possibly have contributed to lesser numbers at all could it?

The only reason Young got the job was because Montana got hurt and Young was younger at the time and they decided that the better move in the long run at that point was to trade Joe.

'94 qb rating for each...
Montana = 83.6
Young = 112.8 and completed 70.3% of passes (both numbers are better than any year of Montana)

[dawgday166]

'94 qb rating for each...
Montana = 83.6
Young = 112.8 and completed 70.3% of passes (both numbers are better than any year of Montana)

And over half of them were to Jerry Rice. John Taylor hardly saw the ball when Young played. If Rice ain't open, Steve be running.

ETA: He did throw it some to Ricky Watters on swing passes out of the backfield too.

[HSVDawg]

Name his WR's, TE's and RB's from his first two Super Bowls. Hint- Jerry Rice didn't play on either one. The 49ers did start to change the NFL in regards to throwing the ball more. I'm sure that average is upped some because if they were behind they would start to throw it more- I remember times where they would throw it as high as 50 times at least- but I think if you asked Walsh at that time, his ideal would be throwing it about 25-30 times a game. John Taylor, Brent Jones, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman- none of them are in the HOF. Craig might get there one day. None of their o-linemen have a legit shot. Dwight Clark wouldn't be known at all if it wasn't for Montana- and I think you could say that for a lot of their other players. In fact, I think the fact that so many people think that they were loaded with talent and looked so good as is a testament to Montana making them look good at times.

Ha, I must have missed where Deion Branch, Troy Brown, and Antowain Smith were HOFers. And you are right about Montana also making some no names look good. There are a lot of similarities between the two of them. But where they differ is Brady getting more rings and playing in more Super Bowls in general. And he did that by staying on top of his game and in his prime for longer than anyone else. Right or wrong, longevity plays a big part in separating out the all time greats. Brady just threw for 450+ yards in leading his team back from a 25 point deficit in the Super Bowl....as a 39 year old. Let that sink in for a second.

[Todd4State]

Giants and pats faced 2 times in super bowl and Eli won both. It was just a point that super bowl results aren't the only determinate in qb greatness. In no way was I saying Eli is even in the same universe as Brady

Ironically that's what people are trying to argue by saying Brady is better than Montana since he has five to Montana's four. But the thing about Montana is he never lost one- Brady had a chance to beat the Giants twice and choked twice. Montana NEVER threw an interception in Super Bowl play. Brady threw a pick six tonight. Montana probably beats the Giants if the roles are reversed and he probably doesn't throw a pick six. Also Montana was WAY more mobile at 40 than Brady on his prime. Brady has played longer and has not missed as much time due to injury or suspension as Brady has- and assuming Brady comes back that will be essentially at least three- four more years than Montana.

[msstate7]

And over half of them were to Jerry Rice. John Taylor hardly saw the ball when Young played. If Rice ain't open, Steve be running.

Watters, Taylor, and Brent jones all over 500 receiving

[dawgday166]

Watters, Taylor, and Brent jones all over 500 receiving

From Young? Or total? And receiving what? Yards?

[msstate7]

Ironically that's what people are trying to argue by saying Brady is better than Montana since he has five to Montana's four. But the thing about Montana is he never lost one- Brady had a chance to beat the Giants twice and choked twice. Montana NEVER threw an interception in Super Bowl play. Brady threw a pick six tonight. Montana probably beats the Giants if the roles are reversed and he probably doesn't throw a pick six. Also Montana was WAY more mobile at 40 than Brady on his prime. Brady has played longer and has not missed as much time due to injury or suspension as Brady has- and assuming Brady comes back that will be essentially at least three- four more years than Montana.

Montana didn't play at 40

[Todd4State]

'94 qb rating for each...
Montana = 83.6
Young = 112.8 and completed 70.3% of passes (both numbers are better than any year of Montana)

OK- so you took the year that Young had Rice and Taylor and Brent Jones led NFL TE's in TD's and the same year that Montana had Birden and Willie Davis and was 40. And he STILL beat Young head to head that year. If you switch Montana and give him that team the 49ers had in 1994 he would have likely put up the same numbers or comparable as Young.

[msstate7]

From Young?

Yes in '94

[msstate7]

OK- so you took the year that Young had Rice and Taylor and Brent Jones led NFL TE's in TD's and the same year that Montana had Birden and Willie Davis and was 40. And he STILL beat Young head to head that year. If you switch Montana and give him that team the 49ers had in 1994 he would have likely put up the same numbers or comparable as Young.

You brought up '94. You insinuated since Montana won head-to-head vs young that Montana was better in '94.

[Todd4State]

Montana didn't play at 40

Excuse me- 38. He was still more mobile than Brady at 40 even though he was sitting on a couch somewhere.

And what's Brady right now- 39?

[msstate7]

Excuse me- 38. He was still more mobile than Brady at 40 even though he was sitting on a couch somewhere.

And what's Brady right now- 39?

Yep. Brady also put up a 112.2 qbr... best of his career... at 39

[Todd4State]

You brought up '94. You insinuated since Montana won head-to-head vs young that Montana was better in '94.

I did. And like I said if you gave them the same teams Montana would have done just as well. To be honest- 1994 was probably the time where they were about the same but that's only because of age slowing down Montana. But to me if an older QB can perform just as well as a younger QB in his prime, wouldn't you say that the older one was better?

[HSVDawg]

But the thing about Montana is he never lost one- Brady had a chance to beat the Giants twice and choked twice.

So you are penalizing Brady for leading his teams to more Super Bowls than Montana did? Because if you go to almost twice as many super bowls as another player, the chances are good you are going to have a few more losses in the big game. Saying Montana is better all time because he never lost a Super Bowl is like saying Urban Meyer is a better all time coach than Saban because he never lost a national championship game. Just an irrational argument.

[dawgday166]

Yes in '94

Well .. maybe he spread it around a little 1 year haha. I won't deny I'm biased against Steve Young. But I'll guarantee you this ... he couldn't have taken KC to the AFC Championship title game like Montana did. Name Joe's offensive weepons that year.

I'm not gonna argue the Brady vs. Montana. I'd still take Joe but think if they played 10 times against each other it would probably be 5 - 5 or maybe 6 - 4 one way or the other.

But really when looking at an entire career + playoffs ... there is no doubt Brady is better. At the beginning of the GOAT thread I said it wasn't over yet. I wasn't counting Brady out.

[msstate7]

I did. And like I said if you gave them the same teams Montana would have done just as well. To be honest- 1994 was probably the time where they were about the same but that's only because of age slowing down Montana. But to me if an older QB can perform just as well as a younger QB in his prime, wouldn't you say that the older one was better?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb1994

That site came up with a formula to compare the 2 in '94

[Todd4State]

Dude,Motana was great, know one Is disagreeing with that fact. But Brady is the best ever, winning 5 Super Bowls and staying healthy for the most part is remarkable. He ain't done either, I ain't a Pats fan either.

I know no one is arguing that. But I'm saying you can't compare the eras. Does Brady stay healthy like he has in the NFL of the 1980's? We'll never know but it's less likely. Montana would have been more likely to stay healthy in today's era as well. Again- we'll never know but it's certainly more likely that he would stay healthy.

What is undisputable is Montana never lost a Super Bowl in multiple tries and he never threw an interception in one either. He also beat Marino and Elway two of the best head to head in two of those and in a third he led one of the greatest comebacks in Super Bowl history.

[Todd4State]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb1994

That site came up with a formula to compare the 2 in '94

Get back to me when they come up with a stat that shows what they would do with the same players Will James.

[msstate7]

Well .. maybe he spread it around a little 1 year haha. I won't deny I'm biased against Steve Young. But I'll guarantee you this ... he couldn't have taken KC to the AFC Championship title game like Montana did. Name Joe's offensive weepons that year.

I'm not gonna argue the Brady vs. Montana. I'd still take Joe but think if they played 10 times against each other it would probably be 5 - 5 or maybe 6 - 4 one way or the other.

But really when looking at an entire career + playoffs ... there is no doubt Brady is better. At the beginning of the GOAT thread I said it wasn't over yet. I wasn't counting Brady out.

Young is much better than you give him credit for. Among qb ratings all time, he's 5th with the 4 above him being present day guys. Young's qbr is better than brees, Big Ben, Peyton, rivers, and yes, Montana (#13 all time)

[Todd4State]

So you are penalizing Brady for leading his teams to more Super Bowls than Montana did? Because if you go to almost twice as many super bowls as another player, the chances are good you are going to have a few more losses in the big game. Saying Montana is better all time because he never lost a Super Bowl is like saying Urban Meyer is a better all time coach than Saban because he never lost a national championship game. Just an irrational argument.

No- I'm penalizing him for losing more Super Bowls and not performing as well in Super Bowls. 4 INT's and a QB rating of 95.3 vs. No losses, 0 INT's and a rating of 127.8. I'm also saying that this era is more QB friendly for Brady in terms of passing and player safety which is what in turn leads to those extra chances.

Meyer and Saban are coaching in the same era and Montana and Brady played in different eras- that's the difference.

[DownwardDawg]

I know no one is arguing that. But I'm saying you can't compare the eras. Does Brady stay healthy like he has in the NFL of the 1980's? We'll never know but it's less likely. Montana would have been more likely to stay healthy in today's era as well. Again- we'll never know but it's certainly more likely that he would stay healthy.

What is undisputable is Montana never lost a Super Bowl in multiple tries and he never threw an interception in one either. He also beat Marino and Elway two of the best head to head in two of those and in a third he led one of the greatest comebacks in Super Bowl history.

Like HSV posted, had Montana been good enough to lead his teams to more super bowls, he would have had a better chance to lose a couple and throw a pick 6 or two.
I can't believe this argument. It's like playing cards with my brothers kids.

[dawgday166]

Young is much better than you give him credit for. Among qb ratings all time, he's 5th with the 4 above him being present day guys. Young's qbr is better than brees, Big Ben, Peyton, rivers, and yes, Montana (#13 all time)

Ok ... he only won 1 SB with loaded 49er teams. I'll take Big Ben, Payton and Brees over him all day every day. The 49er were loaded the whole time Young was there for the most part.

I said above if Montana and Brady play each other it's a toss up to me or maybe Brady will have the slight edge in the end. Any team Joe plays on would wipe a team Young played on, as a much less talented KC team did in 94 I believe was the year. Joe brings up the guys around him. The guys around Steve brought him up (Jerry, Brent, Taylor, Lott). A lot of veteran's there to help him to bring his level of play up.

ETA: I know you just trolling me too and it's working haha. Don't like Young. Whiney crybaby.

[wasabaka]

Never count out Touchdown Tom. Brady is the GOAT, end of discussion. I have always loved Montana, but you cannot deny that Tom surpasses everything Joe has ever done. Go ahead, try to throw a statistic out there that proves me wrong. You will fail.

I am by no means a Patriot fan, by the way. I was cheering for the birds tonight.

[msstate7]

No- I'm penalizing him for losing more Super Bowls and not performing as well in Super Bowls. 4 INT's and a QB rating of 95.3 vs. No losses, 0 INT's and a rating of 127.8. I'm also saying that this era is more QB friendly for Brady in terms of passing and player safety which is what in turn leads to those extra chances.

Meyer and Saban are coaching in the same era and Montana and Brady played in different eras- that's the difference.

You're right it was a different era... the NFC never lost Super Bowls back then. The NFC won 13 straight till Denver won back-to-back. Much more parity among divisions today

[msstate7]

Ok ... he only won 1 SB with loaded 49er teams. I'll take Big Ben, Payton and Brees over him all day every day. The 49er were loaded the whole time Young was there for the most part.

I said above if Montana and Brady play each other it's a toss up to me or maybe Brady will have the slight edge in the end. Any team Joe plays on would wipe a team Young played on, as a much less talented KC team did in 94 I believe was the year. Joe brings up the guys around him. The guys around Steve brought him up (Jerry, Brent, Taylor, Lott). A lot of veteran's there to help him to bring his level of play up.

ETA: I know you just trolling me too and it's working haha. Don't like Young. Whiney crybaby.

I'm brees and elway, but young was very dang good

[Todd4State]

Like HSV posted, had Montana been good enough to lead his teams to more super bowls, he would have had a better chance to lose a couple and throw a pick 6 or two.
I can't believe this argument. It's like playing cards with my brothers kids.

Yeah- I doubt they would have lost to the Buffalo Bills in 1990 or the San Diego Chargers in 1994. Yes, the chance of him losing or throwing an INT is "better"- but as it stands based on the results that are official and known Montana didn't lose one and didn't throw an INT in one.

What we do know is Montana went to four and won all four in a row. Brady went 3-1 in his first four and throw an INT. And at no point in Brady's career has he won 4 in a row.

[Bdawg]

He's still #2

This choke job by Atlanta is legendary

Your first statement is debatable, but your second one is not. Falcons pissed it away. Run the freaking ball and you don't have to worry about a sack or holding call. Milk the clock some, kick the field goal, and your the one celebrating instead of the pats. Dumb dumb dumb by the coaching staff. And for the record, I was saying this at the time it was happening.

[Todd4State]

You're right it was a different era... the NFC never lost Super Bowls back then. The NFC won 13 straight till Denver won back-to-back. Much more parity among divisions today

It was also a lot more difficult to get through the NFC to even get to the Super Bowl. The Bears, Giants, and Redskins were all very good teams and to get to the Super Bowl you usually had to go through at least one of those teams to do it. The Cowboys were very good in the early 80's too.

[Bdawg]

Dude,Motana was great, know one Is disagreeing with that fact. But Brady is the best ever, winning 5 Super Bowls and staying healthy for the most part is remarkable. He ain't done either, I ain't a Pats fan either.
Your right. Brady is great. But there is a reason he stays healthy. They should be "wearing a dress" in this league now. Can't sneeze on Brady without drawing a flag

[dawgday166]

I'm brees and elway, but young was very dang good

One thing to add about Montana ... NC at Notre Dame .. and there is a wall somewhere up there that lists his 6 great come-from-behind victories. Joe did it where ever he played. If his receivers that are running wide-open into the end zone catch the ball and he doesn't get knocked out with a concussion, KC probably would have made the SB his last year.

[HSVDawg]

No- I'm penalizing him for losing more Super Bowls and not performing as well in Super Bowls. 4 INT's and a QB rating of 95.3 vs. No losses, 0 INT's and a rating of 127.8. I'm also saying that this era is more QB friendly for Brady in terms of passing and player safety which is what in turn leads to those extra chances.

Meyer and Saban are coaching in the same era and Montana and Brady played in different eras- that's the difference.

You can talk all about different eras all you want to, but the fact is Brady has put himself in this rare air by sustaining a high level of performance for much longer than other QB's in his same era. Compare the game Brady put on tonight with the turd that we saw from Peyton Manning last year who is around his same age. Compare his career arc to Drew Brees who is another guy around the same age who hasn't been quite able to match Brady's consistency in the twilight years.

And at some point, you have to be able to compare eras. If Brady has another 4000 yard season and gets another ring next year at 40, are you still going to say you can't compare eras when one guy has twice as many appearances and two more rings? I'd argue that you can compare them already, but even if you don't agree with that then you still have to acknowledge that at some point the gap becomes too large to ignore.

[msstate7]

Any chance Brady hangs em up? Has the most rings and just won one

[dawgday166]

Brady will keep playing till he can't walk. He's enjoying it too much.

[Commercecomet24]

No game is ever over with Belichik and Brady on that field!

[Commercecomet24]

Any chance Brady hangs em up? Has the most rings and just won one

Brady saying he's playing til he's 45.

[HSVDawg]

Any chance Brady hangs em up? Has the most rings and just won one

Somehow I doubt it. You only get one chance to craft a legacy. If the old arm still has some zip to it I see no reason why he'd not try to push himself to the brink to win 1 or 2 more.

[Todd4State]

You can talk all about different eras all you want to, but the fact is Brady has put himself in this rare air by sustaining a high level of performance for much longer than other QB's in his same era. Compare the game Brady put on tonight with the turd that we saw from Peyton Manning last year who is around his same age. Compare his career arc to Drew Brees who is another guy around the same age who hasn't been quite able to match Brady's consistency in the twilight years.

And at some point, you have to be able to compare eras. If Brady has another 4000 yard season and gets another ring next year at 40, are you still going to say you can't compare eras when one guy has twice as many appearances and two more rings? I'd argue that you can compare them already, but even if you don't agree with that then you still have to acknowledge that at some point the gap becomes too large to ignore.

I think Montana is better than Peyton and Brees as well. I think Brady is better than Peyton and Brees too. But it's much easier and more relevant to compare Brady to Brees and Peyton because they all played in the same era as each other. Same with Montana and Young, Elway, Marino, Aikman etc.

You can compare eras right now- but if you do you HAVE TO take into account the differences between the two eras. Was Hank Aaron a better player than Babe Ruth? No. Even though he has more home runs. The only way to compare at this point in time is to look at the two individuals players and make an educated guess- because we're never going to have the definitive numbers unfortunately- on how each player would have done if they played in the same era. You can't say- "oh, well Brady went to more and therefore he is better" when the game is much safer now than it was and is more QB friendly than it was when Montana played. I think if you put Brady on the 80's 49ers and Montana on the Patriots of the past 15 years I think Montana would have outperformed him in both comparisons. That's really the most relevant way to look at it.

[Todd4State]

Of course all of this is going to be moot in about 15 years when Dak takes over and becomes the real greatest of all time by the way.

[wasabaka]

I think Montana is better than Peyton and Brees as well. I think Brady is better than Peyton and Brees too. But it's much easier and more relevant to compare Brady to Brees and Peyton because they all played in the same era as each other. Same with Montana and Young, Elway, Marino, Aikman etc.

You can compare eras right now- but if you do you HAVE TO take into account the differences between the two eras. Was Hank Aaron a better player than Babe Ruth? No. Even though he has more home runs. The only way to compare at this point in time is to look at the two individuals players and make an educated guess- because we're never going to have the definitive numbers unfortunately- on how each player would have done if they played in the same era. You can't say- "oh, well Brady went to more and therefore he is better" when the game is much safer now than it was and is more QB friendly than it was when Montana played. I think if you put Brady on the 80's 49ers and Montana on the Patriots of the past 15 years I think Montana would have outperformed him in both comparisons. That's really the most relevant way to look at it.

Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I disagree. Both Joe and Tom have a knack for making players around them better than they would be otherwise. This whole thread is littered with "so and so from Joe's 49'ers SB teams isn't a HOF'er, so he did less with more."

You think Edelman is? Amendola? Blount? Further back, you think Welker is? You want to say he had Randy Moss for 3 years? Yes, they went undefeated one of those years and lost the SB. One of two out of the SEVEN that Brady has lost. And yes, Moss was an incredible talent, but he is not HOF level and has exactly zero SB rings.

Bottom line, both Joe and Tom raised the level of play for the players they threw the ball to. Tom has played in and won more Conference Championships than Joe. Tom has played in way more and won more Super Bowls than Joe.

End of story. Tom Brady is the GOAT.

[Commercecomet24]

Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I disagree. Both Joe and Tom have a knack for making players around them better than they would be otherwise. This whole thread is littered with "so and so from Joe's 49'ers SB teams isn't a HOF'er, so he did less with more."

You think Edelman is? Amendola? Blount? Further back, you think Welker is? You want to say he had Randy Moss for 3 years? Yes, they went undefeated one of those years and lost the SB. One of two out of the SEVEN that Brady has lost. And yes, Moss was an incredible talent, but he is not HOF level and has exactly zero SB rings.

Bottom line, both Joe and Tom raised the level of play for the players they threw the ball to. Tom has played in and won more Conference Championships than Joe. Tom has played in way more and won more Super Bowls than Joe.

End of story. Tom Brady is the GOAT.

Excellent post! And I loved Montana but Brady just went to a different level.

[wasabaka]

Excellent post! And I loved Montana but Brady just went to a different level.

You and I both. Montana was my hero as a young junior high QB. Brady is another cut above, and I dislike the Patriots. You can't deny it, though.

[Todd4State]

Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I disagree. Both Joe and Tom have a knack for making players around them better than they would be otherwise. This whole thread is littered with "so and so from Joe's 49'ers SB teams isn't a HOF'er, so he did less with more."

You think Edelman is? Amendola? Blount? Further back, you think Welker is? You want to say he had Randy Moss for 3 years? Yes, they went undefeated one of those years and lost the SB. One of two out of the SEVEN that Brady has lost. And yes, Moss was an incredible talent, but he is not HOF level and has exactly zero SB rings.

Bottom line, both Joe and Tom raised the level of play for the players they threw the ball to. Tom has played in and won more Conference Championships than Joe. Tom has played in way more and won more Super Bowls than Joe.

End of story. Tom Brady is the GOAT.

Woah- you don't think Randy Moss will be in the HOF? You pretty much just invalidated yourself. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/05/ray-lewis-a-lock-randy-moss-likely-for-2018-hall-of-fame-class/

Really the only question with Moss is whether he will be in on the first ballot or not- and basically more like "when" than "if". WR is a position where it's hard to get inducted on the first try for some reason. I actually wouldn't be shocked if Welker makes it to the HOF to be honest with you- 5 Pro Bowls and the first to have three seasons of 110 receptions and five of 100 receptions. He was productive with the Broncos as well so I don't think you can say he was just a product of Tom Brady. Now Welker won't be a first ballot guy but I think once people look at his career I think the experts and football historians will probably agree with me after he has been on the ballot for 10 years or so. I think Rob Gronkowski might have a chance to be a HOF potentially depending on how he does the next five years or so but he has four pro bowls so he is off to a very good start towards that. And as unpopular as it may be to say it- but I think Aaron Hernandez is maybe the best H-Back I've ever seen and I think he would have been a HOF player had he not thrown his life away.

And as far as your last sentence- well, that's just like your opinion, man. I think they both bring out the best in the players that they have surrounding them. I think a lot of people (not you) think that Montana was a byproduct of Jerry Rice and that is wrong- Rice wasn't on their first two Super Bowl teams and actually has more TD receptions from Young. I think that the reason that Brady has played longer- and thus had more chances to go to a Super Bowl- is because of the era that he plays in. It's the rules of today, the training and etc. Those things can't be discounted.

[DudyDawg]

Brady > Montana and Belichick > Walsh. Those Niners vs the pats would've been a hell of a SB though.

[DudyDawg]

Todd, when all of your arguments are shoulda/woulda/coulda, you're probably on the wrong side.

[wasabaka]

Woah- you don't think Randy Moss will be in the HOF? You pretty much just invalidated yourself. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/05/ray-lewis-a-lock-randy-moss-likely-for-2018-hall-of-fame-class/

Really the only question with Moss is whether he will be in on the first ballot or not- and basically more like "when" than "if". WR is a position where it's hard to get inducted on the first try for some reason. I actually wouldn't be shocked if Welker makes it to the HOF to be honest with you- 5 Pro Bowls and the first to have three seasons of 110 receptions and five of 100 receptions. He was productive with the Broncos as well so I don't think you can say he was just a product of Tom Brady. Now Welker won't be a first ballot guy but I think once people look at his career I think the experts and football historians will probably agree with me after he has been on the ballot for 10 years or so. I think Rob Gronkowski might have a chance to be a HOF potentially depending on how he does the next five years or so but he has four pro bowls so he is off to a very good start towards that. And as unpopular as it may be to say it- but I think Aaron Hernandez is maybe the best H-Back I've ever seen and I think he would have been a HOF player had he not thrown his life away.

And as far as your last sentence- well, that's just like your opinion, man. I think they both bring out the best in the players that they have surrounding them. I think a lot of people (not you) think that Montana was a byproduct of Jerry Rice and that is wrong- Rice wasn't on their first two Super Bowl teams and actually has more TD receptions from Young. I think that the reason that Brady has played longer- and thus had more chances to go to a Super Bowl- is because of the era that he plays in. It's the rules of today, the training and etc. Those things can't be discounted.

No. Moss should not be in the HOF. Incredible talent? Yes, he is. Will he get in for nostalgia's sake? Probably, although that will be a travesty. Which is exactly what you are suggesting for Welker getting in after 10 years or so, which is ridiculous. Neither belong in the halls of the greats of the game.

Hernandez very well could have been a great resource for Tom and ended up in the discussion, but he ****ed his life up and guess what? He was replaced by Gronkowski, who was a NE draft pick.

Gronk will be a HOF tight end if he stays healthy. He wasn't healthy for this SB. AND TOM BRADY WON HIS FIFTH SUPER BOWL WITHOUT HIS "FUTURE" HOF TE. Oh wait, am I going back to the original point of this thread?

Also, what do you think Tom is a by-product of? He succeeds with different personnel year in and year out. He has made it to 7 Super Bowls in 15 years as a starter, with continually different personnel surrounding him. He makes the players surrounding him better than Joe ever could. There is no question in my mind that he is the GOAT, and I am not a fan of his or NE's at all.

[wasabaka]

Woah-


And, by the way, it is spelled "whoa".

[dawgday166]

Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I disagree. Both Joe and Tom have a knack for making players around them better than they would be otherwise. This whole thread is littered with "so and so from Joe's 49'ers SB teams isn't a HOF'er, so he did less with more."

You think Edelman is? Amendola? Blount? Further back, you think Welker is? You want to say he had Randy Moss for 3 years? Yes, they went undefeated one of those years and lost the SB. One of two out of the SEVEN that Brady has lost. And yes, Moss was an incredible talent, but he is not HOF level and has exactly zero SB rings.

Bottom line, both Joe and Tom raised the level of play for the players they threw the ball to. Tom has played in and won more Conference Championships than Joe. Tom has played in way more and won more Super Bowls than Joe.

End of story. Tom Brady is the GOAT.

Just to let you know ... I never argued Montana's last 2 SB teams' offensive skill players are much better than anyone Brady has ever had to play with. But his first 2, probably on a par with Brady ... especially his 1st SB.

I'll also add that Joe never faced the same level of defenses in the SB that Brady has faced with the Giants, Seahawks, and the Falcons. Joe usually faced greater defenses in the NFC as a whole tho to come out of it into the SB.

There were only 7 players left on the 49ers last SB team from their 1st. Both NE & San Fran are different from the 70's Steelers.

[Todd4State]

Brady > Montana and Belichick > Walsh. Those Niners vs the pats would've been a hell of a SB though.

5-0 > 5-2. Walsh > Bellicheck. Walsh changed the game much moreso than Bellicheck.

[Todd4State]

Todd, when all of your arguments are shoulda/woulda/coulda, you're probably on the wrong side.

So playing in the NFL in the 80's was the same as today. Got it. I guess you don't think Jim Brown was the best running back of all time either since he has fewer rings than Emmitt Smith.

[Todd4State]

No. Moss should not be in the HOF. Incredible talent? Yes, he is. Will he get in for nostalgia's sake? Probably, although that will be a travesty. Which is exactly what you are suggesting for Welker getting in after 10 years or so, which is ridiculous. Neither belong in the halls of the greats of the game.

Hernandez very well could have been a great resource for Tom and ended up in the discussion, but he ****ed his life up and guess what? He was replaced by Gronkowski, who was a NE draft pick.

Gronk will be a HOF tight end if he stays healthy. He wasn't healthy for this SB. AND TOM BRADY WON HIS FIFTH SUPER BOWL WITHOUT HIS "FUTURE" HOF TE. Oh wait, am I going back to the original point of this thread?

Also, what do you think Tom is a by-product of? He succeeds with different personnel year in and year out. He has made it to 7 Super Bowls in 15 years as a starter, with continually different personnel surrounding him. He makes the players surrounding him better than Joe ever could. There is no question in my mind that he is the GOAT, and I am not a fan of his or NE's at all.

Moss belongs in the HOF. I'm not saying Tom Brady isn't great. I am saying Joe Montana doesn't lose two with the Patriots talent. In fact he probably would have gone Super Bowl 24 on the Giants with that talent.

[basedog]

Your right. Brady is great. But there is a reason he stays healthy. They should be "wearing a dress" in this league now. Can't sneeze on Brady without drawing a flag

Brady took a whupping last night but stood in the pocket like a man, 460 yards passing. Btw, Brady is a health nut, not only for football. Never been a fan of New England for any sport, but Brady is the greatest.

Oh, his wife ain't shabby either, LOL.

[DudyDawg]

So playing in the NFL in the 80's was the same as today. Got it. I guess you don't think Jim Brown was the best running back of all time either since he has fewer rings than Emmitt Smith.

Running back isn't the most important position. Brady 25-9 in the playoffs, Montana 16-7, Brady w more rings and SB MVP.

[DudyDawg]

5-0 > 5-2. Walsh > Bellicheck. Walsh changed the game much moreso than Bellicheck.

Where'd you get 5-0?

[smootness]

No. Moss should not be in the HOF. Incredible talent? Yes, he is. Will he get in for nostalgia's sake? Probably, although that will be a travesty. Which is exactly what you are suggesting for Welker getting in after 10 years or so, which is ridiculous. Neither belong in the halls of the greats of the game.

Hernandez very well could have been a great resource for Tom and ended up in the discussion, but he ****ed his life up and guess what? He was replaced by Gronkowski, who was a NE draft pick.

Gronk will be a HOF tight end if he stays healthy. He wasn't healthy for this SB. AND TOM BRADY WON HIS FIFTH SUPER BOWL WITHOUT HIS "FUTURE" HOF TE. Oh wait, am I going back to the original point of this thread?

Also, what do you think Tom is a by-product of? He succeeds with different personnel year in and year out. He has made it to 7 Super Bowls in 15 years as a starter, with continually different personnel surrounding him. He makes the players surrounding him better than Joe ever could. There is no question in my mind that he is the GOAT, and I am not a fan of his or NE's at all.

Moss is clearly a HOFer and will easily get in. It's not even a discussion.

[HSVDawg]

Where'd you get 5-0?

Walsh's Super Bowl record was 5-0 when you add two imaginary wins to the 3 he actually won.

I wonder if 3-0 is somehow better than 5-2?

[smootness]

5-0 > 5-2. Walsh > Bellicheck. Walsh changed the game much moreso than Bellicheck.

Aside from the fact that it's actually 4-0 for Montana and 3-0 for Walsh, this argument is so dumb. What do you think happened in those years Montana/Walsh didn't win or lose the SB? You think they didn't play those years? They still lost, they just lost even earlier and couldn't even make the SB those years.

Making the playoffs > not making the playoffs
Making the SB > not making the SB
Winning the SB > not winning the SB

Those are all clear statements of fact. Thus, making and losing the SB is definitely still better than not making the SB.

[DudyDawg]

Walsh's Super Bowl record was 5-0 when you add two imaginary wins to the 3 he actually won.

Haha. Thank you, I was positive it was 3 but was starting to doubt myself.

[HSVDawg]

Aside from the fact that it's actually 4-0 for Montana and 3-0 for Walsh, this argument is so dumb. What do you think happened in those years Montana/Walsh didn't win or lose the SB? You think they didn't play those years? They still lost, they just lost even earlier and couldn't even make the SB those years.

Making the playoffs > not making the playoffs
Making the SB > not making the SB
Winning the SB > not winning the SB

Those are all clear statements of fact. Thus, making and losing the SB is definitely still better than not making the SB.

And to that end, Brady also has 4 more playoff apperarances when you discount the 86 and 92 seasons that Montana missed the majority of due to injury. Even if you include those, Brady has two more.

So, total Playoff apperances - Brady > Montana
Super Bowl appearances - Brady > Montana
Super Bowl wins - Brady > Montana

Also, a lot has been made about it being a "different game" back then where you could be more physical with QB's. Well, Montana suffered two major injuries in his career. A back injury in 1986, and an elbow injury in 1991. In case anyone wasn't aware, it is still legal to hit QB's in the back / torso and in the elbow (even though I think his elbow injury was a noncontact practice injury). So, theoretically his body (and by extension - Brady's body as well) would be at the same risk today for the injuries he actually sustained that allegedly prevented him from extending his career. So that argument holds no water either.

[smootness]

And to that end, Brady also has 4 more playoff apperarances when you discount the 86 and 92 seasons that Montana missed the majority of due to injury. Even if you include those, Brady has two more.

So, total Playoff apperances - Brady > Montana
Super Bowl appearances - Brady > Montana
Super Bowl wins - Brady > Montana

Also, a lot has been made about it being a "different game" back then where you could be more physical with QB's. Well, Montana suffered two major injuries in his career. A back injury in 1986, and an elbow injury in 1991. In case anyone wasn't aware, it is still legal to hit QB's in the back / torso and in the elbow (even though I think his elbow injury was a noncontact practice injury). So, theoretically his body (and by extension - Brady's body as well) would be at the same risk today for the injuries he actually sustained that allegedly prevented him from extending his career. So that argument holds no water either.

That argument doesn't stand on its face. All QBs back then played with the same rules, just like all QBs now play with the same rules. You have to measure them against their own era, and Brady is better.