I think it's time to legitimately start considering the Death Penalty for OM...

[DeviousDawg]

-Just from NOA #1, you have level I violations occurring in 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015.
-So far, you have atleast 8 former/current OM coaches caught in a violation by the NCAA(Freeze, Nix, Vaughn, Saunders, Harris, Kiffin, Matt Luke and Barney Farrar)
-You have violations spanning over 6-7 years, 2 athletic directors, and 2 separate coaching staffs.
-This year, immunity was given to any player/recruit/coach involved in a violation at Ole Miss.
-You have blatant violations occurring with the 2016 class, just weeks after receiving the NOA #1.
-Now, strong rumors that a certain 2017 recruit turned Ole Miss in for their recruitment of him, once again, after receiving NOA #1.
-You have OM coaches and administrators constantly lying to the public about the severity of the investigation.
-Not only do you have impermissible recruiting benefits, but also academic fraud in the form of falsifying ACT's to gain eligibility of recruits, as well as a failure to monitor that opened the door wide open for a lack of institutional control in future notice of allegations.

Here it all is in a timeline:

2010:
-2 sub allegations from allegation #10; involves Saunders & Vaughn facilitating impermissible benefits and academic fraud(Level I)
-3 sub allegations from allegation #11; involves Saunders, Vaughn and Nix providing impermissible benefits in the form of housing, meals, and transportation(Level I)
-3 OM players played while ineligible due to fraudulent ACT scores, all games will be vacated.

2011:
-3 OM players competed while ineligible due to fraudulent ACT scores, all games will be vacated.

2012:
-7 sub allegations from allegation #8; involves Maurice Harris, Freeze, Matt Luke, booster Walter Hughes providing impermissible benefits for Memphis recruits, as well as Freeze, Maurice Harris and booster Walter Hughes attending an in-home visit together.(Level I)
-1 OM player competed while ineligible due to fraudulent ACT scores, all games will be vacated.

2013:
-2 sub allegations from allegation #4; involves impermissible benefits given to a recruit by a booster in the form of free lodging(Level I)
-Allegation #5; involves Kiffin allowing a recruit to stay two nights at his personal residence(Level III)
-2 sub allegations from allegation #6; Kiffin arranged for impermissible benefits including a free stay at the Inn for family members of a recruit during his official visit(Level II)
-9 sub allegations from allegation #8; involves Maurice Harris, Kiffin, Freeze and Walter Hughes giving impermissible benefits to Memphis recruits(Level I)
-2 sub allegations from Allegation #12; involves Chris Vaughn lying to NCAA enforcement staff(Level I)
-1 sub allegation from allegation #13; involves David Saunders lying to NCAA enforcement staff(Level I)

2014:
-1 sub allegation from allegation #1; involves Tunsil receiving loaner cars on two occasions(Level I)
-4 sub allegations from allegation #4; involves impermissible benefits given to a recruit by a booster in the form of free lodging(Level I)
-Failure to monitor involving Tunsil's loaner cars (August-December) (Level II)
-1 sub allegation from allegation #13; involves Saunders lying to NCAA enforcement staff(Level I)
-Allegation #3; involving a booster giving the Tunsil family cash(Level I)

2015:
-Failure to Monitor(continued) involving Tunsil's loaner cars (Jan-June) (Level II)
-3 sub allegations from allegation #1; involves Tunsil receiving a loaner car(Level I)

2016:
-Ole Miss receives NOA #1
-A week later, Ole Miss signs a top 5 class in the country.
-2 months later, Tunsil admits to receiving money from Ole Miss coaches on national television.
-Multiple reports of multiple schools turning Ole Miss in for their recruitment of the #2 overall recruit in the 2016 class, Greg Little.
-Lot of smoke regarding Shea Patterson's family's housing situation on the MS coast.
-Confirmed NCAA interviews in the NE Jackson area, regarding boosters and their interactions with recruits.
-NCAA gives immunity to any recruit/player/coach involved with violations at OM, for information in return.
-Countless reports of opposing players taking the immunity deal. Leo Lewis is one, but also players from a handful of other SEC schools.
-Barney Farrar, OM's "best recruiter", is placed on administrative leave for NCAA issues. I think we can put it together that this involved Leo's statement. He was fired.
-Long time OM assistant coaches Chris Kiffin, Dan Werner, Dave Wommack, Grant Heard and Corey Batoon all suddenly flee the program or retire following the 2016 season. Immunity is nice when you're on the telling end.

2017:
-Latest rumor is that the NCAA has uncovered improper benefits offered to Willie Gay and Myles Brennan.


I have never personally thought the death penalty was possible, but all of the above says other wise. Ole Miss having a shitty recruiting class this year was a good step towards holding off the death penalty. It may be too little too late though. While I don't expect the death penalty, I do think that it is now on the table, and I do expect something in between the Death Penalty and what USC got, if that's even possible. At this point, it's a foregone conclusion that Ole Miss will suck for the better part of a decade, and that's good enough for me. If anything is for sure, the NCAA has proved that they are going to make an example of Ole Miss. 17 em, they deserve it.

[DeviousDawg]

Freeze has had 27 sub allegations of the Level I variety as well as a Failure to Monitor under his watch since he was hired in 2012, yet he still has his job?... All 27 of them came from the 2013 class. All the NCAA has on paper right now is the ACT stuff from 2010, and stuff from Freeze's top 5 nationally 2013 class. The NCAA has now been working for more than a year now on Freeze's other top 5 recruiting class of 2016, and this time they have given anyone involved immunity to talk, AND many of the allegations will have occurred after OM had already received their first NOA. Not to mention whatever they have found from the 2015 class with Leo Lewis and others as well as the 2017 class. Just imagine how many Level I violations will be on that second NOA, you gotta think that it would double the amount from #1. They couldn't be sitting in a worse position. Definitely a different feel going into signing day this year.

[RezDog7]

#webelieve

[BayouDawg]

you know what they say, go big or go home. I'll give em credit they went all out. This is what happens when you let amateurs run the show though. Every school cheats but not every school is dumb enough to have coaches texting players about money. I still can't believe how unbelievably stupid they are.

[GTHOM]

The NCAA has said they would likely never give the death penalty again. SMU never recovered. But, that list is pretty damning. Its hurt them a lot this year already just from the allegations and the negative recruiting. I wish they'd just hurry the hell up and drop the bomb though

[Todd4State]

Freeze has had 27 sub allegations of the Level I variety as well as a Failure to Monitor under his watch since he was hired in 2012, yet he still has his job?... All 27 of them came from the 2013 class. All the NCAA has on paper right now is the ACT stuff from 2010, and stuff from Freeze's top 5 nationally 2013 class. The NCAA has now been working for more than a year now on Freeze's other top 5 recruiting class of 2016, and this time they have given anyone involved immunity to talk, AND many of the allegations will have occurred after OM had already received their first NOA. Not to mention whatever they have found from the 2015 class with Leo Lewis and others as well as the 2017 class. Just imagine how many Level I violations will be on that second NOA, you gotta think that it would double the amount from #1. They couldn't be sitting in a worse position. Definitely a different feel going into signing day this year.

Especially since they thought that they were getting away with a lot of things and/or that the NCAA was leaving and therefore business as usual. They're about to find out why you don't keep cheating after you have received a NOA.

I feel the same way you do about the death penalty- I think they deserve it, but I'm not sure that they will actually get it. If the NCAA simply wants to set them back a decade I'm fine with that. I just hope the NCAA drags this out at least one if not two more years and I'm pulling for Ole Miss to ask for another extension.

[Todd4State]

The NCAA has said they would likely never give the death penalty again. SMU never recovered. But, that list is pretty damning. Its hurt them a lot this year already just from the allegations and the negative recruiting. I wish they'd just hurry the hell up and drop the bomb though

I think they would if they feel like they have to. That might be the only way to truly sever their #Network which I have been told is their ultimate goal. It's not like Ole Miss brings a lot to the table in terms of fan base like an Alabama or a Texas not to mention they have a racist past, so they're a pretty good team to give the death penalty to. When you get a NOA and then you actually cheat worse than you were before after you received it- they're basically giving the NCAA the middle finger. So, it's not like it's totally unprovoked.

The other thing about the death penalty is I can't remember a school that actually blatantly kept cheating after SMU had the plug pulled either, so it's not like there have been a lot of instances where you could say that the Death Penalty was warranted since then. I don't blame schools either- who would want to mess around and take the chance? Ole Miss apparently.

[GTHOM]

I think they would if they feel like they have to. That might be the only way to truly sever their #Network which I have been told is their ultimate goal. It's not like Ole Miss brings a lot to the table in terms of fan base like an Alabama or a Texas not to mention they have a racist past, so they're a pretty good team to give the death penalty to. When you get a NOA and then you actually cheat worse than you were before after you received it- they're basically giving the NCAA the middle finger. So, it's not like it's totally unprovoked.

The other thing about the death penalty is I can't remember a school that actually blatantly kept cheating after SMU had the plug pulled either, so it's not like there have been a lot of instances where you could say that the Death Penalty was warranted since then. I don't blame schools either- who would want to mess around and take the chance? Ole Miss apparently.

They hit SMU with penalties twice before they gave the death penalty. While this is Freeze's second run in with the law you would think they would go by the 3 strikes and you're out way again. I think they are gonna get hit hard, some of them are starting to see the writing on the wall. Like you said I think it will cripple them but I highly doubt they get the death penalty

[Reason2succeed]

The NCAA has said they would likely never give the death penalty again. SMU never recovered. But, that list is pretty damning. Its hurt them a lot this year already just from the allegations and the negative recruiting. I wish they'd just hurry the hell up and drop the bomb though

Not saying you are wrong but please provide a quote for this because I hear people say this all the time but I've never seen it written or on video. It is a fact that other smaller programs have gotten the death penalty since SMU.

Plus, as a graduate of SMU grad school I can tell you that the reason why SMU did not recover is more than the DP. Their conference dissolved and they got dropped to a lesser conference.

They really have not tried very hard either. I've been to an SMU football game. There is no passion around their program. As much as I hate OM and would love to see them in that situation I can't see their whole fanbase deserting like that. It was much easier to do in the Dallas metroplex.

UAB just gave themselves a form of death penalty and will likely be back up to the speed they were at in several years. People forget that the governor was involved in the SMU death penalty.

[gravedigger]

The NCAA has said they would likely never give the death penalty again. SMU never recovered. But, that list is pretty damning. Its hurt them a lot this year already just from the allegations and the negative recruiting. I wish they'd just hurry the hell up and drop the bomb though

They have continued to use it.

[Activated Alpha]

Highly doubt Ole Miss will receive the DP, but if there is any school out there that downright deserves it right now it would be Baylor. What they did is reprehensible and disgusting. Those types of guys give real men a bad name.

[ILOATHEBears]

I have a honest question. Will we buy an entirely new brass plate to go on the egg bowl trophy? Cause atleast 2 egg bowl wins are coming down. I say we go ahead and fix the old plate hang it up and start a new one cause as u said they will suck for a decade. How glorious it is Hey Hugh!!!!

[Gutter Cobreh]

F*ck those $hi%tbirds!!!

[Reason2succeed]

Highly doubt Ole Miss will receive the DP, but if there is any school out there that downright deserves it right now it would be Baylor. What they did is reprehensible and disgusting. Those types of guys give real men a bad name.

As disgusting as Penn State and Baylor have been these were crimes and do not fall under the jurisdiction of the NCAA. OM is your reigning champion at NCAA infractions as we speak and have added to their lead with the second NOA we haven't seen yet.

And I just can't see how they won't get a death penalty with all of OM's cheating while being under investigation and especially if they have been caught while under probation. Smaller programs have self imposed death penalties for much less.

[DeviousDawg]

If it's in the NCAA's bylaws, they can use it if they need to. Interesting that it was revised last in 2014.

http://i64.tinypic.com/245g9i8.png



http://i66.tinypic.com/2n8vp8j.png

[Boodawg]

And to think of all the possible schools this could be happening to, it just makes me so happy that it's our rival. Thank you "Network" and NCAA.

[Bully13]

http://usc.247sports.com/Board/29/Contents/Alabamas-Recruiting-Dominance-Continues-Wow-50860219

Sorry for the hijack but is this link legit? Tusk?

[HereComesTheSpiral]

But did their RB kill 5 hookers?

[MSUMatt]

If Baylor or Penn St don't get the death penalty no one will. I'm more of a proponent of purging the entire staff/administration involved then killing an entire program.

[Dawgology]

The NCAA has said they would likely never give the death penalty again. SMU never recovered. But, that list is pretty damning. Its hurt them a lot this year already just from the allegations and the negative recruiting. I wish they'd just hurry the hell up and drop the bomb though

People keep saying that. When did they say that? Where is it recorded?

[Dawgology]

If it's in the NCAA's bylaws, they can use it if they need to. Interesting that it was revised last in 2014.

http://i64.tinypic.com/245g9i8.png



http://i66.tinypic.com/2n8vp8j.png

I've been trying to tell ya'll. Suspension by NCAA then removed from the SEC.

[Msujd164]

I agree. If Baylor or PSU didn't/don't get it, no way OM does. Baylor should be shut down immediately.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

I've been trying to tell ya'll. Suspension by NCAA then removed from the SEC.

Would that be all sports, because that would be awesome

[lamont]

The Baylor info is just starting to leak out. The NCAA will likely send some type of punishment their way. But as with anything NCAA- it's a time consuming process.

[Liverpooldawg]

The only things that they would be eligible for the death penalty for would be things that occurred after track and WBB were put in probation. That was in what, November of 2016? My guess is that's why the NCAA split those off, to start the clock.

[Jack Lambert]

The NCAA has said they would likely never give the death penalty again. SMU never recovered. But, that list is pretty damning. Its hurt them a lot this year already just from the allegations and the negative recruiting. I wish they'd just hurry the hell up and drop the bomb though

How many years ago did they say that? Things change and it looks like it is getting to a point where the NCAA is going to have to make an example to open some eyes. Ole Miss is the school to do it on. Out side ESPN who was paid by Ole Miss no one thinks they are nothing but shit.

[Jack Lambert]

I've been trying to tell ya'll. Suspension by NCAA then removed from the SEC.

I sure hope they are not removed by the SEC. They are going to be easy pickings for several years and they would probably be replaced by OU. The west is already tough enough.

[lamont]

I don't think they will get the death penalty. I think they will get historic sanctions tho. 40 over 4 or something like that.

[dogshiek]

Couldn't the NCAA just banish those shitbirds to the Sun Belt Conference. They probably don't want those cheats either.

[starkvegasdawg]

I don't think they will get the death penalty. I think they will get historic sanctions tho. 40 over 4 or something like that.

That the same as 9 over 3?

[BrunswickDawg]

Would that be all sports, because that would be awesome

Well - that's the other shoe that DD left out of his outstanding write up. WBB, & Track are also proven dirty. Rumors of MBB and Baseball have been heard too. It is systemic. It is coordinated. They can't stop doing it. There is only 1 solution. Cut off the head.

[Reason2succeed]

So can we please stop the urban legend says the NCAA is never going to give the death penalty again? They never said that. That is fake news.

[Dawgface]

I don't think they will get the death penalty. I think they will get historic sanctions tho. 40 over 4 or something like that.

I would be happy with that. And Freeze banished to Siberia.

[Dawgology]

Well - that's the other shoe that DD left out of his outstanding write up. WBB, & Track are also proven dirty. Rumors of MBB and Baseball have been heard too. It is systemic. It is coordinated. They can't stop doing it. There is only 1 solution. Cut off the head.

The Network is like Hydra. You cut off a head and another two grow back. No. To clean up a mess like the one the NCAA has in Ole Miss you have to just tear the whole thing down. Death penalty. Prolonged suspension and then a strict probation as their program is allowed to start back up. It's the only way to do it.

[Dawgology]

So can we please stop the urban legend says the NCAA is never going to give the death penalty again. They never said that. That is fake news.

Alternative facts. Get it right!***

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't want them getting the death penalty. I want their fans sitting in a half empty stadium watching a Croom level team.

[Boodawg]

I don't want them getting the death penalty. I want their fans sitting in a half empty stadium watching a Croom level team.

Not me, I want the death penalty, then when they start program back up, I want to see "their fans sitting in a half empty stadium watching a Croom level team."

[Reason2succeed]

I don't want them getting the death penalty. I want their fans sitting in a half empty stadium watching a Croom level team.

Why not both? When a team goes on death penalty their program is shut down for one or two years.
1) They are publicly embarrassed by the media and will carry the stigma of cheater forever like SMU.
2) All the players transfer or graduate and any coaches without a show cause get other jobs.
3) They can keep a S&C coach but he cannot teach the fundamentals of football.
4) Once the DP is over the administrative has to hire new coaches who don't mind coaching a decimated program.
5) They begin recruiting again while still on probation and it takes four or five years for them to get to 85 scholarship players.
6) Like SMU there is a possibility that they could get dropped from their conference.

Trust me a death penalty ensures they will be watching worst than Croom level football for a long time.

[MadDawg]

Amazing what losing to MSU and Mullen three years in a row drove them to do. There simply was nothing they weren't willing to do to end that trend. And now they will pay the price. Come on, NCAA. You have the goods. Nobody will be shocked if you lower the boom. It's what everyone wants and there are a lot of coaches and AD's that will be pissed if you don't. Just try to imagine how emboldened they and other cheaters like them will become if their crimes are not punished sufficiently. It's time.

[maroonmania]

I think they would if they feel like they have to. That might be the only way to truly sever their #Network which I have been told is their ultimate goal. It's not like Ole Miss brings a lot to the table in terms of fan base like an Alabama or a Texas not to mention they have a racist past, so they're a pretty good team to give the death penalty to. When you get a NOA and then you actually cheat worse than you were before after you received it- they're basically giving the NCAA the middle finger. So, it's not like it's totally unprovoked.

The other thing about the death penalty is I can't remember a school that actually blatantly kept cheating after SMU had the plug pulled either, so it's not like there have been a lot of instances where you could say that the Death Penalty was warranted since then. I don't blame schools either- who would want to mess around and take the chance? Ole Miss apparently.

Speaking of the #Network and such, the thing I keep coming back to in my mind with Ole Miss is that I can't think of any other school where recruiting is such a big focus to the point of almost overshadowing on field results and where so much of the fanbase gets actively involved with the recruiting process of targeted prospects. There may be some others out there as bad are almost as bad but does any other school have a recruit-a-palooza type weekend where loads of fans come into town for the sole purpose of intermingling and partying with recruits and making them feel "welcome"? And that doesn't even speak to local fans in an area where a recruit is located that get involved with the "designated" family member to have them steer the recruit to OM.

[HSVDawg]

The NCAA has said they would likely never give the death penalty again. SMU never recovered. But, that list is pretty damning. Its hurt them a lot this year already just from the allegations and the negative recruiting. I wish they'd just hurry the hell up and drop the bomb though

It wasn't the death penalty itself that SMU never recovered from. It was getting kicked out of their conference due to the penalties. If the same thing happened to OM, they would be USM part II, although they may get an invite from the AAC or something after a couple of years. However, I'm not sure what the bylaws are for removing charter members from the SEC. it may be quite difficult compared to what it was for the old SWC.

[starkvegasdawg]

SEC might not be able to kick them out, but I bet they could say no more SEC money. They can just use that money they were spending on recruits, hookers, and Yancy's penicillin.

[DeviousDawg]

Here's the new penalty structure for anyone interested. It's interesting, because depending on how the COI rules each allegation, a level II violation can end up being worse than a level I violation. I do expect this to happen actually. Failure to Monitor must always start as a level II violation, but I fully expect that to be ruled an Aggravated Level II violation, which is the same as a Standard Level I violation.

http://i64.tinypic.com/10eoifp.png

In Ole Miss's response to the notice of allegations, they claimed that all of their level I violations should be ruled as mitigated Level I violations, which is the same as a standard Level II violation. Also, they denied the Failure to Monitor. They obviously weren't monitoring if Tunsil drove 4 different loaner cars for 8 months before someone stopped him. The coaches see him pull up to practice, they knew what was going on, but here is OM's reason why the deny the Failure to Monitor.


"This allegation poses two questions. First, did the University's monitoring program with respect to student-athlete vehicles fulfill its institutional obligations under NCAA legislation? The University's monitoring program identified (Tunsil's) first loaner car(the Titan) in late October 2014, and the University's initial review concluded it did not constitute a violation. That conclusion was wrong, which leads to the second question. Did the University's October 2014 inquiry of the error that flowed from it fall short of the University's obligations under the monitoring Bylaws?
The University and the enforcement staff agree on the facts at the heart of both questions, but the University does not agree that these underlying facts constitute a violation of NCAA legislation and therefore denies Allegation No. 2. As described below, the University's monitoring program was robust and worked as intended. The fact that the University, with the benefit of hindsight, would respond differently today to the information it had in October 2014 does not constitute a failure to monitor."

So basically they are saying they didn't know the rules, so they didn't know that they were breaking them, therefore it shouldn't count as a violation. Good luck with that, this one is gonna really hurt them, especially combined with a LOI in the second NOA. Anyway, here are the actual penalties included with the penalty structure.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2ci8gp5.png
http://i64.tinypic.com/vrghhx.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/2h654ky.png

As you can see, it's going to be hard to get away with 8 level I and 2 level II violations without losing a lot of scholarships plus a multi year bowl ban, especially when one of the level II's is in reality a mitigated level I, atleast. So how do I think they rule each of the 13 violations?

-Allegation #1: Standard level I; involves Tunsil and his 4 loaner cars, draft night and step dad are gonna make sure they are punished for this one. OM did help with the NCAA find some stuff on this one, but $8,000 worth of benefits without monitoring=standard level I.
-Allegation #2: Aggravated Level II; Failure to monitor with a failure of an excuse for their failure.
-Allegation #3: Mitigated Level I; Booster gave Tunsil's Step Dad $800 in cash, and OM didn't self report and there were 3 aggravating factors to 0 mitigating factors regarding this one. Will be on the high end of the values for mitigated Level I. OM disassociated the booster and saved themselves from another standard Level I.
-Allegation #4: Standard Level I: Booster provided a player's family with free lodging on 12 occasions equal to $2,253 in benefits. The aggrivating factor "were not isolated or limited" is a big one here, that's not what you want to see if you're on OM fan.
-Allegation #5: Level III
-Allegation #6: Mitigated Level II: OM self reported this one on their own, makes a big difference. Kiffin hooked a recruits family up with lodging on 2 occasions worth ~$1000
-Allegation #7: Level III
-Allegation #8: Standard Level I: OM self reporting the bulk of this one and disassociating Walter Hughes saved them from an aggravated level I. 16 sub allegations involving Hughes, Freeze, Luke, Harris and Kiffin hooking up the Memphis recruits. I expect Freeze to get and Harris to get a 2-5 year show cause for this one though, you just can't have your head coach and assistant coach go to a in-home visit together. Big no no, should be talked about more. Remember, Freeze also gets a suspension worth 10% of the sum of the Show Causes his assistants get.
-Allegation #9:Level III self reported
-Allegation #10: Mitigated Level I; this is Saunders and Vaughn fixing the grades, they fired both and neither Bjork or Freeze were there when it happened.
-Allegation #11: Standard Level I; This one is Saunders, Vaughn and Nix arranging housing for 3 recruits in Jackson so that they could go to the Ed. Center. Nix is still on staff, and they tried to fight this one for him, but that is what is going to end up making it a Standard Level I rather than mitigated.
-Allegation #12: Mitigated Level I; More of an individual allegation. Chris Vaughn lied to the NCAA during interviews, probable 10 year show cause. This is why he was fired from Texas.
-Allegation #13: Mitigated Level I; See allegation #12 and substitute Saunders for Vaughn.

That's 4 Standard Level I's and one Aggravated level II which puts their scholarships lost at over 50%, which I can't see the NCAA doing for the first NOA. All it will take is one aggravated Level I in NOA #2, and I think Barney's firing involves a violation on that level, and Ole Miss might as well self impose a Death Penalty. With 8 Level I violations plus a Failure to monitor and another NOA on the way, it's easy to see how the Death Penalty might be on the table for Ole Miss with the new penalty structure. Even if only 3 of the level I's are named standard level I violations, you are still looking at around 30 scholarships on the 1st NOA only. Gonna be interesting too see how the COI rules on these.

[Really Clark?]

This is from 2011:

INDIANAPOLIS -- NCAA president Mark Emmert says he's willing to back up his tough talk on punishing rule-breakers -- even using the "death penalty" as a deterrent.

With salacious allegations swirling around Miami's football program, and one week after Emmert joined with university presidents to discuss toughening sanctions against cheating schools, the NCAA's leader said he believed the infractions committee should make the harshest penalty an option.

"If, and I say if, we have very unique circumstances where TV bans and death penalties are warranted, then I don't think they are off the table and I would be OK with putting those in place," Emmert told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Friday.

Emmert later said the death penalty, which prohibits a school from competing in a sport, should only be used in rare cases. He was quick to distance his comments from the Miami case.

[SaintDawg]

The Grove BEFORE NCAA hands down punishment...
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/ole/graphics/thegrove1.jpg

The Grove AFTER NCAA hands down punishment...
https://media.bizarrepedia.com/images/jonestown-suicide-massacre.jpg

[Reason2succeed]

Devious is dropping mad knowledge on us today. Someone get this man some rep points!!!

[MadDawg]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DeviousDawg34 again."

[DeviousDawg]

Don't forgot about this too:

http://i64.tinypic.com/1zdm793.png

Every violation they get in NOA #2 will have an extra red mark next to it because of the short time between the two NOA. It's the aggravating factors compared to the mitigating factors that decided what kind of Level I violation it will be. If the aggravating factors outweigh the mitigating factors it will be a aggravated level I, if they are equal it will be Standard, and if the mitigating factors outweigh the aggravating factors it will be a mitigated level I. Every allegation in NOA #2 will have an extra aggravating factor to add to it.

[WSOPdawg]

I've been trying to tell ya'll. Suspension by NCAA then removed from the SEC.

This, this and THIS!!! ^^^^^^^

[1bigdawg]

I don't believe they will receive the death penalty. However, if they do, I do believe the SEC will kick them out to "protect the reputation" of the conference. The SEC presidents really want to do away with the national perception that the SEC is a dirty conference. I believe that will get the 10 votes necessary to kick them out.

[Cooterpoot]

You guys are crazy if you believe they'll get the death penalty or voted out of the SEC. Neither has a chance in hell of happening.

[WSOPdawg]

I don't believe they will receive the death penalty. However, if they do, I do believe the SEC will kick them out to "protect the reputation" of the conference. The SEC presidents really want to do away with the national perception that the SEC is a dirty conference. I believe that will get the 10 votes necessary to kick them out.

To me, it's more about being able to "contribute" in ALL facets to the SEC -- which means being able to nationally compete on the field of play with the respect of your opponent (which TCUN won't have anymore) while also being able to contribute to the SEC coffers financially (which at this point TCUN will be nothing more than a blood-$ucking leech trying to persuade us all that the Grove alone should be worth their full conference share being administered in Destin each July).

17 those $#!&birds!!! (That saying is definitely growing on me)

[WSOPdawg]

You guys are crazy if you believe they'll get the death penalty or voted out of the SEC. Neither has a chance in hell of happening.

Oh Lawd, here we go again.

[1bigdawg]

You guys are crazy if you believe they'll get the death penalty or voted out of the SEC. Neither has a chance in hell of happening.

What about in heaven.**

[SaintDawg]

You guys are crazy if you believe they'll get the death penalty or voted out of the SEC. Neither has a chance in hell of happening.


I don't believe they will receive the death penalty. However, if they do, I do believe the SEC will kick them out to "protect the reputation" of the conference. The SEC presidents really want to do away with the national perception that the SEC is a dirty conference. I believe that will get the 10 votes necessary to kick them out.

You never know what the NCAA is capable of. I think the days of "wrist-slapping" punishments from them is over. I won't be surprised either way if they do or don't get the DP. One thing is for certain, OM is definitely going to get some fingers cut off for this disobedience. My two cents says that the NCAA will give them every punishment they can except for the DP and then say, "if you make another single mistake, we don't care how trivial... we will hook you up."

As far as the SEC is concerned, that's a tough one to call. I think it would have to take the DP and nothing less in order for it to even be considered removing them from the conference. 1952 KY basketball under Adolph Rupp for point shaving warranted a DP, but the SEC didn't kick them out. Granted, different sport and a different time. Getting 13 schools to agree to remove one from the group is a very tall order.

[bulldogcountry1]

I don't want them getting the death penalty. I want their fans sitting in a half empty stadium watching a Croom level team.




Those are my thoughts, too. There's nothing worse than having to endure 2-10 year after year and lose to your rival. If they get the death penalty, we can't beat them and put another plate on the EB trophy.

If they do get the death penalty, they can just forget about football for a while, bank all the extra cash, and go all in with baseball and basketball. Make them spend money on getting embarrassed over and over.

[spiral]

Aside from their blatant cheating I think they are in a precarious position due to who they are. They are pretty much an irrelevant team in the SEC. The NCAA has a chance to really punish a team and as an added benefit they get to do it to an SEC team. That will make every other conference in the country happy. Plus it sends a message. I think that is why it is taking so long. They want to get all their ammo ready.

While I hope they get the death penalty I highly doubt they will. However, when the rulings come down I think they will be so harsh that any om fan with any sense will physically hurt while reading of the damage they self inflicted.

[Dawgology]

It wasn't the death penalty itself that SMU never recovered from. It was getting kicked out of their conference due to the penalties. If the same thing happened to OM, they would be USM part II, although they may get an invite from the AAC or something after a couple of years. However, I'm not sure what the bylaws are for removing charter members from the SEC. it may be quite difficult compared to what it was for the old SWC.

2/3 membership vote. Bama wants them out (obviously) so its a done deal if they want it to be.

[Percho]

In reality the real culprits are, "We the people," my tickets for 2017 have been ordered.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not covet

I am guilty!

There would be no cheating if not for, "We the people."

[Acid mouth]

Oh Lawd, here we go again.

Yup. If the sanctions are anywhere close to what RP is predicting, you can bank on TSUN suing the NCAA. I think anything over a 1 year bowl ban and greater than a loss of 20 scholarships, they sue. While I think it would be a huge mistake, they are dumb enough to attempt it. So in other words, I think they sue.

[Acid mouth]

And to further what I've discussed, the bears are hoping for the dissolution of the NCAA. The bear fans I've talked to are pissed beyond belief. They are pissed about immunity offers. They are pissed in general which pleases me immensely. The beautiful thing in all of this is that the NCAA is it's own governing body. They answer to no one. They can interpret their own policies as they please and I hope they interpret it in a way that buries the bears for a decade.

[Bubb Rubb]

Yup. If the sanctions are anywhere close to what RP is predicting, you can bank on TSUN suing the NCAA. I think anything over a 1 year bowl ban and greater than a loss of 20 scholarships, they sue. While I think it would be a huge mistake, they are dumb enough to attempt it. So in other words, I think they sue.

They're not going to sue anyone. I can assure you that nobody in the administration at Ole Miss even has this as a consideration. The lawsuit talk is just bluster from their idiotic fan base. There is no way that an institution long suspected of cheating and covering up is going to allow the NCAA's attorneys to have subpoena power in a court of law.

[msbulldog]

SEC might not be able to kick them out, but I bet they could say no more SEC money. They can just use that money they were spending on recruits, hookers, and Yancy's penicillin.


Vegas I'm pretty sure that every that every year your on probation, you are denied SEC money and after probation you get 1/2 the money back.

[TXDawg]

2/3 membership vote. Bama wants them out (obviously) so its a done deal if they want it to be.

Actually, since they're a founding member, it takes a unanimous vote, correct?

[Dawgology]

Actually, since they're a founding member, it takes a unanimous vote, correct?

no

[QuadrupleOption]

Actually, since they're a founding member, it takes a unanimous vote, correct?

I don't think it's unanimous, but I do know that MSU would not support it. It'd be political suicide for anyone associated with MSU to be seen as having been instrumental in Ole Miss being kicked out of the SEC. And honestly, I don't know that there would be enough support in the conference to do it, even if Bama DID want them gone.

The other item is that if the SEC were to boot UM out the door, we're the next ones on the chopping block. There is no reason (other than geography) to have schools from Mississippi in the SEC. We don't bring the markets or TV sets required to have any kind of pull from that perspective.

[Dawgology]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0721/FINAL%20Bylaws%207.18.14.pdf

Page 3 for those interested.

[Dawgology]

I don't think it's unanimous, but I do know that MSU would not support it. It'd be political suicide for anyone associated with MSU to be seen as having been instrumental in Ole Miss being kicked out of the SEC. And honestly, I don't know that there would be enough support in the conference to do it, even if Bama DID want them gone.

The other item is that if the SEC were to boot UM out the door, we're the next ones on the chopping block. There is no reason (other than geography) to have schools from Mississippi in the SEC. We don't bring the markets or TV sets required to have any kind of pull from that perspective.

The last viewership map I saw showed that the majority of the State of Mississippi watched MSU games more than tsun games.

[Maroons]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0721/FINAL%20Bylaws%207.18.14.pdf

Page 3 for those interested.

So if I read that correctly, 10 University Presidents would have to vote in favor of suspending or terminating their membership.

Not happening. Nor do I want it to - would rather have them in the conference but fielding terrible teams for the next decade.

Edit - or would it be 9 of 13 votes?

[Dawgology]

So if I read that correctly, 10 University Presidents would have to vote in favor of suspending or terminating their membership.

Not happening. Nor do I want it to - would rather have them in the conference but fielding terrible teams for the next decade.

I'd rather have them kicked out and replaced with ULL....LSU needs a rival. :)

[Johnson85]

I don't think it's unanimous, but I do know that MSU would not support it. It'd be political suicide for anyone associated with MSU to be seen as having been instrumental in Ole Miss being kicked out of the SEC. And honestly, I don't know that there would be enough support in the conference to do it, even if Bama DID want them gone.

The other item is that if the SEC were to boot UM out the door, we're the next ones on the chopping block. There is no reason (other than geography) to have schools from Mississippi in the SEC. We don't bring the markets or TV sets required to have any kind of pull from that perspective.


I think as conferences are currently configured, there is an argument for one Mississippi school. Certainly wouldn't be one of the coveted schools, but our population isn't that small. We're basically the same size as Arkansas. Bigger than Nebraska. Now obviously we don't have a lock down on our state like Arkasnas or Nebraska, but if there were only one school in a power 5 conference, they'd gradually come to dominate in state support.

[Reason2succeed]

I don't think it's unanimous, but I do know that MSU would not support it. It'd be political suicide for anyone associated with MSU to be seen as having been instrumental in Ole Miss being kicked out of the SEC. And honestly, I don't know that there would be enough support in the conference to do it, even if Bama DID want them gone.

The other item is that if the SEC were to boot UM out the door, we're the next ones on the chopping block. There is no reason (other than geography) to have schools from Mississippi in the SEC. We don't bring the markets or TV sets required to have any kind of pull from that perspective.

OM fans would just start cheering for Bama, LSU, and some with family ties might even cheer for us if their program was shut down or crippled bad enough.

[smootness]

We absolutely do not want the precedent of a founding member being kicked out. Period.

Luckily, there is absolutely no way it happens. And OM is not getting the death penalty.

[Reason2succeed]

Is there anyone who would take prop bets on this death penalty thing because I think I could get pretty favorable odds since so many people are so certain of what will and won't happen?

[Homedawg]

Is there anyone who would take prop bets on this death penalty thing because I think I could get pretty favorable odds since so many people are so certain of what will and won't happen?

Yeah I'll give 5-1 odds they don't get it. Minimum wager $500. Just wire me your bet!

[Boodawg]

We absolutely do not want the precedent of a founding member being kicked out. Period.

Luckily, there is absolutely no way it happens. And OM is not getting the death penalty.

I think it would all depend on exactly how bad they cheated, whether we want this precedent set or not. I'd sure love to see them go, and if the only way to get kicked out of the conference is to cheat as bad as we think they did, then I wouldn't be worried in the least.

[DawgPoundtheRock]

Yeah I'll give 5-1 odds they don't get it. Minimum wager $500. Just wire me your bet!

I'll take Bullshit for a thousand, Alex. My grand is on the way************

[WSOPdawg]

Again, providing the NCAA gives those cheating bastards the Death Penalty and makes an example of their continuous, non-stop cheating (for the better part of a decade mind you WITH an investigation ongoing), why would the SEC choose to keep a non-contributing entity around for a period of up to four years only to see them leech away at the conference coffers that the remaining SEC members build?

These cheating 17's have been caught and what little success they enjoyed came at the expense of the rest of the SEC and flies in the face of the Institutional Responsibility, Academic Integrity and Sportsmanship listed in the SEC Constitution and By-Laws.

**** those $#!&birds!!!

[msbulldog]

I'll take Bullshit for a thousand, Alex. My grand is on the way************

Damn boys step right up!

[WSOPdawg]

Put it this way, with DeviousDawg's post that started this thread based on the 1st NOA, I don't envy the NCAA's position because I don't think they ever thought they'd see a case like this with years upon years of violations stacking up, so much so that they have been unable to administer sanctions from the 1st NOA with rumors of a 2nd NOA and possibly 3rd NOA being talked about.

I don't envy their position at all, and thinks this case and how they handle it will arguably determine the NCAA's relevancy going forward.

[msbulldog]

Again, providing the NCAA gives those cheating bastards the Death Penalty and makes an example of their continuous, non-stop cheating (for the better part of a decade mind you WITH an investigation ongoing), why would the SEC choose to keep a non-contributing entity around for a period of up to four years only to see them leech away at the conference coffers that the remaining SEC members build?

These cheating 17's have been caught and what little success they enjoyed came at the expense of the rest of the SEC and flies in the face of the Institutional Responsibility, Academic Integrity and Sportsmanship listed in the SEC Constitution and By-Laws.

**** those $#!&birds!!!
I'm pretty sure that every that every year your on probation, you are denied SEC money and after probation you get 1/2 the money back.

[WSOPdawg]

I'm pretty sure that every that every year your on probation, you are denied SEC money and after probation you get 1/2 the money back.

This is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

But the gist of the argument IS... IF, IF, IF, IF, if Hugh Freeze and his Cheats are not allowed to field a team for 2-3 years by the NCAA, AND therefore cannot play or compete for the SEC Championship because they have no football team (which is practically unheard of in the modern age), will the SEC Office still hand over half of $40+/- Mil per year or pursue other recourse?

Nobody knows, but again, we are in unchartered waters.

[lamont]

We are not in unchartered waters

They are going to lose a shitload of schollys, get a 2-3 year bowl ban, lose coaches, and be crippled for a few years to learn their lesson

[gravedigger]

We are not in unchartered waters

They are going to lose a shitload of schollys, get a 2-3 year bowl ban, lose coaches, and be crippled for a few years to learn their lesson

Well we are in unchartered waters in div I football. But I do understand your point. NCAA will beat them up on schollys and bowls. It's The best way to send a message. The coach? They may leave him be. Why? To see if they are serious about correcting the problem.

If I'm the COI, I make the sanctions just enough to entice them to han themselves and then watch. It's the post sanctions that will matter. Then, if there is a peep for 4 years like there has been, I'd wear them out. Academic sanctions would be the source. Continued rule breaking would be the straw that broke the camels back.

[lamont]

Freeze is done in college football once the COI meets

[MedDawg]

Well we are in unchartered waters in div I football. But I do understand your point. NCAA will beat them up on schollys and bowls. It's The best way to send a message. The coach? They may leave him be. Why? To see if they are serious about correcting the problem.


I've been in favor of the NCAA getting rid of Freeze because I think OM will be able to come back easier with him. But it just occurred to me Freeze staying would also make it easier for the NCAA to catch OM as a repeat violator than if they got an actual honest coach.

[WSOPdawg]

We are not in unchartered waters

They are going to lose a shitload of schollys, get a 2-3 year bowl ban, lose coaches, and be crippled for a few years to learn their lesson

My bad Rando, I didn't realize that we've seen many times in the past where a school rings up an additional NOA (or two) without having the initial NOA penalties handed down... oh wait, there hasn't been anything of this magnitude, so I call this unchartered waters for the NCAA.

But I do agree that they are gonna get AT LEAST a 2-3 year bowl ban with a shitload of lost schollies.

[Dawgowar]

It may not be the DP, but it is without a doubt the NCAA's chance to show how severe they can make a punishment without actually shutting down a program. When this started the I hoped for 18-25 scholarships , essentially an entire class worth of players, and a couple of years probation to stall their recruiting for a while. They are going to be transformed into 1970's and early 80's Vandy. Those penalty tables tell the tale. They could get hit with 40% scholarship losses and may not see TV for two or more years.

Let them delay. You see what it did to them this year. Next year, if this is unresolved, they will be competing with Colorado School for Mining and New Mexico State for talent. Two years of bad recruiting BEFORE penalties hit will leave them depleted in both talent and numbers. If they have not reigned in their boosters after that then the NCAA will come down on them again.

And the best part, they did it to themselves.

[WSOPdawg]

It may not be the DP, but it is without a doubt the NCAA's chance to show how severe they can make a punishment without actually shutting down a program. When this started the I hoped for 18-25 scholarships , essentially an entire class worth of players, and a couple of years probation to stall their recruiting for a while. They are going to be transformed into 1970's and early 80's Vandy. Those penalty tables tell the tale. They could get hit with 40% scholarship losses and may not see TV for two or more years.

Let them delay. You see what it did to them this year. Next year, if this is unresolved, they will be competing with Colorado School for Mining and New Mexico State for talent. Two years of bad recruiting BEFORE penalties hit will leave them depleted in both talent and numbers. If they have not reigned in their boosters after that then the NCAA will come down on them again.

And the best part, they did it to themselves.

Agree 100%

[Dawgpile]

And the best part, they did it to themselves.

This is my favorite constant to the whole episode. The arrogance to go to such lengths after Freeze arrived, to continue while the NCAA is on campus, and even after the NOA is served. A perfect archetype. Faulkner would approve.

[EngDawg]

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to DeviousDawg34 again

[TUSK]

As the resident Bammer, it may (or may not be) my place to comment, but I've previously posted that:

1) there will be no NCAA DP for Mississippi... (the conference won't allow it).
2) provided everything we've "suspected" is true, the penalties will be MUCH WORSE than the DP.
3) a program at their historic level would recover more quickly from the DP than what they are enduring to date plus a 3/4 + 20/30 situation.
4) if UM gets 3/4 + 20/30 type penalties, I'll try out for WR, C34 will coach DL, and Digger will do play-by-play while swilling whiskey....

they will be 7 a point UD to Vandy... regularly...

[JohnnyQuid]

may not see TV for two or more years.

when is the last time there was a TV ban? honest question

with SEC network $ and the fact it ****s over opposing teams I think u can shelf this one

[JohnnyQuid]

As the resident Bammer, it may (or may not be) my place to comment, but I've previously posted that:

1) there will be no NCAA DP for Mississippi... (the conference won't allow it).
2) provided everything we've "suspected" is true, the penalties will be MUCH WORSE than the DP.
3) a program at their historic level would recover more quickly from the DP than what they are enduring to date plus a 3/4 + 20/30 situation.
4) if UM gets 3/4 + 20/30 type penalties, I'll try out for WR, C34 will coach DL, and Digger will do play-by-play while swilling whiskey....

they will be 7 a point UD to Vandy... regularly...

all this DP talk is absolutely absurd. I ****ing hate OM but it's not happening - the NCAA (no matter what some think) will expire all options before nuking OM or anyone similar. can you imagine the ramifications that would have on oxford? they don't want to have that kind of far reaching effect it has been said maybe not in print but I've heard it said as fact on radio.

long story short u are spot on - no DP. sanctioned out the ass to a possible worse extent at a football level

[dogshiek]

when is the last time there was a TV ban? honest question

with SEC network $ and the fact it ****s over opposing teams I think u can shelf this one

I want their thrashings on tv. They are going to be non competitive for a decade. Everyone needs to see them reap what they've sown.

[WSOPdawg]

when is the last time there was a TV ban? honest question

with SEC network $ and the fact it ****s over opposing teams I think u can shelf this one

Yep, a tv ban penalizes the other schools as well, and used to be tied to the tv-playing schools receiving direct payments based on their appearance (which isn't the case any more). I definitely don't see this happening.

[Bubb Rubb]

What Tusk says is absolutely correct - the death penalty would be something they could recover more quickly from, unless part of the penalty was scholarship restrictions as they start back up.

You see what's happening to them now - add on top of that 3/4 years of probation and 30 scholarships lost - It's gonna take them years to come back from that. When they do, they will have been passed.

[Reason2succeed]

With the certainty with which most of y'all are talking I was sure I could get at least 10-1 odds out of someone.

OM is basically begging the NCAA to give them the DP. At this point what other options does the NCAA have to stop them. OM has continued to pay players during an active investigation. Do you really think they are going to stop when the penalties come down and the NCAA leaves town? No, they're going to be even more emboldened to buy the best 45 players they can.

The NCAA has to make a statement that will stop OM from cheating and be a warning to every other rogue program that thinks they can buy their way into the Sugar Bowl. If not it will be what Lord Saban called "the wild Wild West". The only way is to totally nuke their program so the DP is definitely not off the table as many of you wrongly suggest.

[Token Bammer]

As the resident Bammer, it may (or may not be) my place to comment, but I've previously posted that:

1) there will be no NCAA DP for Mississippi... (the conference won't allow it).
2) provided everything we've "suspected" is true, the penalties will be MUCH WORSE than the DP.
3) a program at their historic level would recover more quickly from the DP than what they are enduring to date plus a 3/4 + 20/30 situation.
4) if UM gets 3/4 + 20/30 type penalties, I'll try out for WR, C34 will coach DL, and Digger will do play-by-play while swilling whiskey....

they will be 7 a point UD to Vandy... regularly...

I can play QB. I can run a mean Wing T.

[spiral]

As far as TV goes is there any way they can be forced to take all the 11:00 am games?**