Noticing a trend in recent OL recruiting...

[DeviousDawg]

It looks as if we have decided that if we are not going to get the most talented offensive lineman, we are going to get the biggest.

2016:
Stewart Reese 6'6" 340
Greg Eiland 6'8" 330
Dareun Parker 6'5" 320

2017:
Tyree Phillips 6'6" 330
Montravious Richardson 6'7" 300
Cordavien Suggs 6'7" 290
Josh Cooper 6'7" 355 (been reported he is around 390 right now)
Tommy Champion 6'5" 320

2018:
Kwatrivous Johnson 6'9" 345

Your average size between these guys is 6 foot 6.7 inches and 325.5 pounds. That's some beef. For comparison, here is the average size of opposing SEC team's signees/commits over the last 3 years(I also included any 2018 commits)

MSU: 6' 6.7"; 325.5 lb

Arky: 6' 5.2"(-1.5"); 295.8 lb(-29.7 lb)
Bama: 6' 4.4"(-2.3"); 310.7 lb(-14.8 lb)
Auburn: 6' 4.7"(-2.0"); 302.8 lb(-22.7 lb)
Florida: 6' 5.4"(-1.3"); 301 lb(-24.5 lb)
UGA: 6' 5.3"(-1.4"); 314.4 lb(-11.1 lb)
OM: 6' 4.8"(-1.9"); 285.4 lb(-40.1 lb)
UT: 6' 5.2"(-1.5"); 292.9 lb(-32.6 lb)
A&M: 6' 5.1"(-1.6"); 290.2 lb(-35.3 lb)

Size isn't everything, but it's a good start.

[msstate7]

Almost makes me wonder if we're about to move away from zone blocking. I'm certainly no oline expert, but I remember Alex Gibbs talking about lighter, more athletic olinemen are better for the zine blocking scheme

[MetEdDawg]

Almost makes me wonder if we're about to move away from zone blocking. I'm certainly no oline expert, but I remember Alex Gibbs talking about lighter, more athletic olinemen are better for the zine blocking scheme

Good DLs eat our scheme up. Bama and LSU find the holes in our zone scheme and really kill our run game because of it. Crazy amounts of TFLs against us. We have to at least consider making a change in that regard. Or at least mix it up more.

[Commercecomet24]

You are correct sir! We got some monstrous guys the last 2 classes! Don't forget the size of the TEs we been getting as well! I like it!

[Todd4State]

I am pro giant o-linemen. I guess in a perfect world we could get a bunch of lighter athletic o-linemen but those are hard to come by. I think a massive o-line might offset what we have trouble getting in that regard. Get some big guys in and then coach them up and just maul people. It worked for Jackie.

[Commercecomet24]

I am pro giant o-linemen. I guess in a perfect world we could get a bunch of lighter athletic o-linemen but those are hard to come by. I think a massive o-line might offset what we have trouble getting in that regard. Get some big guys in and then coach them up and just maul people. It worked for Jackie.

Our whole offense is getting massive. Big QB, big RBs, big OL, big TE, got some good size receivers but need to add a couple more but with the size of the rest we in good shape. We gotta be one of the biggest offenses in the country. Now who knows if it translates to more wins but it sure can't hurt!

[RougeDawg]

Well at least bigger OLinemen increase our guys chances of just making contact with a defender each play, so that right there will be an improvement. The defenders will have to take a longer path of travel to go around them as well. First half of 2016 we had 1-3 OLinemen standing standing around some plays, having never made contact with another individual on the field until they huddled up after the play.

[starkvegasdawg]

Size matters.

[Commercecomet24]

Size matters.

Rep given!

[Coursesuper]

I don't care if they are 8'6"and 500lbs can they play football? I watched the Eiland kid play in high school and wasn't impressed at all. I know you can't can't coach size,but we also need football players.

[DeviousDawg]

I don't care if they are 8'6"and 500lbs can they play football? I watched the Eiland kid play in high school and wasn't impressed at all. I know you can't can't coach size,but we also need football players.

Well, if you can't recruit football players, you might as well recruit size.

In all seriousness, I heard from several people that Eiland was not quite a D1 prospect out of high school, to put it nicely. However, I have seen it mentioned several times that he has made some huge strides over his redshirt year. You never know until they step onto the field though.

[Todd4State]

Our whole offense is getting massive. Big QB, big RBs, big OL, big TE, got some good size receivers but need to add a couple more but with the size of the rest we in good shape. We gotta be one of the biggest offenses in the country. Now who knows if it translates to more wins but it sure can't hurt!

This is a good point. And I like having SEC size on our team. With the way training and conditioning is going it is possible to make someone more athletic, faster, and stronger. However, you can't make someone 5'10" into someone 6'5" yet. To me, that's kind of the point of being a "developmental program". We may not get as many "finished product" like Alabama gets, but we can get a guy that has SEC size, redshirt them, develop them, and then by the time they are a junior and senior they are hopefully a productive SEC caliber player.

I'd much rather have a guy that profiles as "too big" at a position like Jamal Peters at CB rather than have someone too small and then try to hope that they are the next Doug Flutie. I think length and size does matter more in the SEC because you're going up against teams that have a starting lineup full of potential NFL players plus the SEC traditionally even today has always focused on being able to run the ball and defense. And that usually means physical line play and big fast beasts on both sides of the ball.

[Commercecomet24]

This is a good point. And I like having SEC size on our team. With the way training and conditioning is going it is possible to make someone more athletic, faster, and stronger. However, you can't make someone 5'10" into someone 6'5" yet. To me, that's kind of the point of being a "developmental program". We may not get as many "finished product" like Alabama gets, but we can get a guy that has SEC size, redshirt them, develop them, and then by the time they are a junior and senior they are hopefully a productive SEC caliber player.

I'd much rather have a guy that profiles as "too big" at a position like Jamal Peters at CB rather than have someone too small and then try to hope that they are the next Doug Flutie. I think length and size does matter more in the SEC because you're going up against teams that have a starting lineup full of potential NFL players plus the SEC traditionally even today has always focused on being able to run the ball and defense. And that usually means physical line play and big fast beasts on both sides of the ball.

Exactly! It also would appear our coaching staff has changed their strategy. Seeing what we have been doing doesn't work against the big boys and are trying a different tact. I like what appears to be a change in philosophy to get more physical, like in the beginning of Dans tenure. I'm on board and hope it leads to more success.

[dawgday166]

I don't care if they are 8'6"and 500lbs can they play football? I watched the Eiland kid play in high school and wasn't impressed at all. I know you can't can't coach size,but we also need football players.

I wonder this too.

Eiland was very slow. Most SEC DLinemen (especially Bammer's) would be past him or hit him before he even moved IMO. I hope he has made some huge strides.

Something I noticed in the trends. Why is Arky going in the other direction (from their massive lines) to smaller? Has ole Bert figured something out over there?

[DeviousDawg]

Something I noticed in the trends. Why is Arky going in the other direction (from their massive lines) to smaller? Has ole Bert figured something out over there?

I found this interesting too. I think bert has realized that its easier to be successful with a passing offense in the SEC west rather than trying to run against those defenses. Stat's show that he has been moving towards a passing offense, which makes sense with the recruitment of the smaller, quicker lineman.

Average pass attempts per game since Bert has been at Arkansas:

2013- 25.1
2014- 27.6
2015- 28.8
2016- 31.2

[Bully13]

Size matters.

Lol Vegas. But I'm gonna say maybe not so much always. I grew so tired over the years with announcers constantly chiming in on the size of our OL during the JWS era while going thru 3 and outs time and time again. "Smash mouth " football was what they referred to yet we seemed to suck at moving the chains.

Fast feet, strength, and nastiness imo work better than fat and slow.

[Reason2succeed]

Technique can be taught. But size is what it is. I just want Mullen to bring back RTGDFB in his offense.

[Commercecomet24]

Technique can be taught. But size is what it is. I just want Mullen to bring back RTGDFB in his offense.

I'll second that!

[Coursesuper]

Technique can be taught. But size is what it is. I just want Mullen to bring back RTGDFB in his offense.

But talent has to be there or the technique is lost. If the player is too slow to get to the play he may as well not be there.

[Todd4State]

Lol Vegas. But I'm gonna say maybe not so much always. I grew so tired over the years with announcers constantly chiming in on the size of our OL during the JWS era while going thru 3 and outs time and time again. "Smash mouth " football was what they referred to yet we seemed to suck at moving the chains.

Fast feet, strength, and nastiness imo work better than fat and slow.

Jackie's biggest problem on offense was he could not develop a QB. Dan Marino doesn't count because he was a phenom and no one could screw that up. Jackie always wanted an "athlete at QB that could "manage the offense and make a throw on third down." See Derrick Taite and Wayne Madkin. The result was the other team would stack 9 guys in the box and dare us to throw and a lot of times we could not. Without question our offense would have worked a lot better under Jackie with a QB that could complete 65% of his passes and throw more TD's than INT's- like most of Dan's QB's even Chris Relf. If the QB would have been a running threat- even better. Normally under Jackie we had no balance. We were either able to run the ball or we were not - and if we weren't able to we were just screwed. Tulane 1994 being the exception.

I think we all agree that Dan can develop a QB. Our problem under Dan has been questionable personnel management- especially at running back at times along with extremely poor o-line play against good opponents at times. Dan can correct both by bringing in bigger running backs like Kylin Hill and bringing in bigger o-linemen and then developing them. As well as we develop QB's, we're still going to be "run first" as an offense and we're going to run it a lot with the QB- which wasn't the norm under Jackie after Sleepy graduated and by having a QB that can make reads, make throws, and not turn the ball over it's going to cause defenses to back the safeties out of the box. That makes it even easier on our o-line and TE's to block and actually makes the run even more effective plus you add in the threat of the QB running the ball.

[Todd4State]

But talent has to be there or the technique is lost. If the player is too slow to get to the play he may as well not be there.

That's where our S&C has to kick in and why it's so important.

The fact of the matter is guys like Derek Sherrod are only slightly more common than unicorns in Mississippi. Big people in Mississippi are almost as common as deer. Realistically we can't count on finding complete packages with our recruiting base being what it is a whole lot. So, we either have to do like Alex Gibbs did with the Broncos and get smaller athletic guys, bulk them up and try to out scheme people or we have to try to get big guys like Eiland and develop them. If Eiland progresses as much as he has been rumored to have progressed let's go big.

[Coursesuper]

That's where our S&C has to kick in and why it's so important.

The fact of the matter is guys like Derek Sherrod are only slightly more common than unicorns in Mississippi. Big people in Mississippi are almost as common as deer. Realistically we can't count on finding complete packages with our recruiting base being what it is a whole lot. So, we either have to do like Alex Gibbs did with the Broncos and get smaller athletic guys, bulk them up and try to out scheme people or we have to try to get big guys like Eiland and develop them. If Eiland progresses as much as he has been rumored to have progressed let's go big.

Talent and S&C are not mutually exclusive. It's fairly simple you can play or you can't. I'll liken it to something I've learned after half a lifetime in the golf biz. There are three types of golfers, they are easy to spot, there are players someone that can play really takes it seriously and is a student of the game. There are beaters that love the game and try very hard. But just suck and no amount of practice or lessons that will make them any better and there are "Think They Cans" they think that they are in the first group but still suck. They claim a 6 hcp but are really an 18. All that said if the guy can't play no amount of S&C is going to make a great player out of him.

[Todd4State]

Talent and S&C are not mutually exclusive. It's fairly simple you can play or you can't. I'll liken it to something I've learned after half a lifetime in the golf biz. There are three types of golfers, they are easy to spot, there are players someone that can play really takes it seriously and is a student of the game. There are beaters that love the game and try very hard. But just suck and no amount of practice or lessons that will make them any better and there are "Think They Cans" they think that they are in the first group but still suck. They claim a 6 hcp but are really an 18. All that said if the guy can't play no amount of S&C is going to make a great player out of him.

Well I don't think we're just recruting big guys that are just big for that sake. Suggs has a lot of offers and Cooper had an offer from TCU and had some recruting guru on 247 sports speaking highly of him. I'm just saying that we're not going to get a lot of Cam Robinson's and we're better off getting big guys that have potential and using our S&C to develop them.

[Reason2succeed]

Talent and S&C are not mutually exclusive. It's fairly simple you can play or you can't. I'll liken it to something I've learned after half a lifetime in the golf biz. There are three types of golfers, they are easy to spot, there are players someone that can play really takes it seriously and is a student of the game. There are beaters that love the game and try very hard. But just suck and no amount of practice or lessons that will make them any better and there are "Think They Cans" they think that they are in the first group but still suck. They claim a 6 hcp but are really an 18. All that said if the guy can't play no amount of S&C is going to make a great player out of him.

Thus camp.

The coaches have to see guys and evaluate not just whether they can play right now but whether they can learn and develop. Let's be honest that a lot of the small schools in Mississippi just don't have the personnel to coach OL like in some other places.

[State82]

Size matters.

That's what she said.

[dawgs]

Good DLs eat our scheme up. Bama and LSU find the holes in our zone scheme and really kill our run game because of it. Crazy amounts of TFLs against us. We have to at least consider making a change in that regard. Or at least mix it up more.

It's not the scheme. A lot of it is the crappy OL talent. We can use scheme to hide the bad talent against mediocre and bad front 7s, but against elite front 7s, scheme can only do so much. The lack of talent really becomes apparent at that point.

Also, elite teams, like bama, have gotten smaller and faster in their front 7 to play sideline to sideline against modern offenses. I think bama's front 7 is about 20 lbs lighter this year than they were 4 or 5 years ago (can't remember the exact numbers, but it was mentioned leading up to or during the natty and was pretty significant), which means they are faster. 350 lb OL are great if they have good feet. Otherwise they will get turned into turnstiles by smaller, faster, and quicker DL.

[KB21]

I think the key is you have to identify the most important traits you are looking at in offensive linemen. For example, hip, knee, and ankle flexibility is a big key in being able to bend at the knees and sink your hips in pass protection. It also helps keep you low when you are firing out in the running game. Quick feet is another key trait. You can have perfect technique, but if you can't move your feet, you aren't going to be able to make your block.

Take Elgton Jenkins for example. Watch his high school film. That guy could move his feet and bend. When they moved in to LG this season, that son of a gun was a freaking stud!!

Michael Story is going to be a similar player, IMO.

[msbulldog]

I think the key is you have to identify the most important traits you are looking at in offensive linemen. For example, hip, knee, and ankle flexibility is a big key in being able to bend at the knees and sink your hips in pass protection. It also helps keep you low when you are firing out in the running game. Quick feet is another key trait. You can have perfect technique, but if you can't move your feet, you aren't going to be able to make your block.

Take Elgton Jenkins for example. Watch his high school film. That guy could move his feet and bend. When they moved in to LG this season, that son of a gun was a freaking stud!!

Michael Story is going to be a similar player, IMO.

Boy, it would be great if Story really steps up this season.

[HSVDawg]

Talent and S&C are not mutually exclusive. It's fairly simple you can play or you can't. I'll liken it to something I've learned after half a lifetime in the golf biz. There are three types of golfers, they are easy to spot, there are players someone that can play really takes it seriously and is a student of the game. There are beaters that love the game and try very hard. But just suck and no amount of practice or lessons that will make them any better and there are "Think They Cans" they think that they are in the first group but still suck. They claim a 6 hcp but are really an 18. All that said if the guy can't play no amount of S&C is going to make a great player out of him.

Your golfer commemts are certainly correct. However, unlike golfers, the unfortnuate truth is that SEC OL cannot often be judged on the "can play or can't play" standard until at least 2 or 3 years after arriving to campus (with very few exceptions). 5-star OL tend to pan out at a high level, but unfortunately there only 5-10 of those to go around any given year for 60+ power 5 schools. The entire rest of the lot from 2-star through high 4-star is an absolute total crapshoot at that position. Probably 10% will become high level college players / possible draft picks, 40% will be seviceable / decent, and the remaining 50% will not pan out whatsoever. If we sign 6 OL, a minimum of 2-3 of them are definitely going to suck no matter what their star rating is. If we sign 8, its going to be 3-5 that suck. Thats why you have to recruit OL like you play the stock market. Number one is you diversify your portfolio (sign as many as you can) and number two is you identify those with the most high end growth potential (sign big / tall guys who will be monsters if they pan out with their technique)).

If we signed 6 OL every single year and all 6 are 6-5 / 6-6 and between 300-350 lbs and at least half of them have some power 5 offers, we will have a Top 5 OL in the league year in and year out. Our quantity is the biggest problem right now but we seem to be somewhat addressing that with this class.

[KB21]

Boy, it would be great if Story really steps up this season.

That kid is going to be good. Copy this post and remember this in two years. He was a redshirt frosh that was forced into playing time this year, and prior to his injury, he did better than anyone should have expected him to do. I think he's our LG when Jenkins goes to the NFL.

[msbulldog]

That kid is going to be good. Copy this post and remember this in two years. He was a redshirt frosh that was forced into playing time this year, and prior to his injury, he did better than anyone should have expected him to do. I think he's our LG when Jenkins goes to the NFL.

Would love for Story to be able to fill another position this year.

[Todd4State]

Would love for Story to be able to fill another position this year.

I think he will start for us somewhere next year.

[lastmajordog]

Lol Vegas. But I'm gonna say maybe not so much always. I grew so tired over the years with announcers constantly chiming in on the size of our OL during the JWS era while going thru 3 and outs time and time again. "Smash mouth " football was what they referred to yet we seemed to suck at moving the chains.

Fast feet, strength, and nastiness imo work better than fat and slow.

Emory B. ran into the same problem.....I think his was more a case of defense KNOWING he was going to run fullback on first down for little or no yardage. Nothing like going through a few seasons of 2nd and 10 from a wish/wing bone.

[Todd4State]

Emory B. ran into the same problem.....I think his was more a case of defense KNOWING he was going to run fullback on first down for little or no yardage. Nothing like going through a few seasons of 2nd and 10 from a wish/wing bone.

I heard that Bellard had trouble recruiting and that his first few teams were basically really good players that Bob Tyler brought in.

[lastmajordog]

True but it did not help throwing first down away EVERY series....