Hev Whiffs Again

[ShotgunDawg]

Jordan Tucker commits to UNC

[civildawg]

It's just comical at this point

[msstate7]

I never understood the sentiment we were gonna get him anyway. He didn't plan to OV here, did he?

What about carty?

[ATTILLA THE DOG]

Jordan Tucker commits to UNC

mvsu and delta state better watch out,hev is coming for their croots

[Dawg61]

Hev whiffs again

Not this shit again

https://media.tenor.co/images/718f89e38982e8eb792b6b4ac6b61f7f/tenor.gif

[DownwardDawg]

Not this shit again

https://media.tenor.co/images/718f89e38982e8eb792b6b4ac6b61f7f/tenor.gif

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HereComesTheSpiral]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/761/116/7b1.gif

[dawg27]

Have we anybody on our o line that even has a p5 offer?

[Really Clark?]

Have we anybody on our o line that even has a p5 offer?
Rankin, Reese, Eiland, Williams, Moon

[maroonmania]

Listening to the Boneyard today really didn't give me the warm fuzzies about much of our late recruiting. He did at least seem to be somewhat positive about Gay but not a lot else.

[msstate7]

Listening to the Boneyard today really didn't give me the warm fuzzies about much of our late recruiting. He did at least seem to be somewhat positive about Gay but not a lot else.

Get carty, gay, bulovas, and at least one more and I won't melt

[SDDawg]

This is every freaking year. Good God. We are not a recruiting school. If you want a tent revival preacher & a "Network", get to work. Otherwise, live with it. This is where we are. Good coach, decent recruiting, "clean" program. Get used to it.

[Dawgology]

This is every freaking year. Good God. We are not a recruiting school. If you want a tent revival preacher & a "Network", get to work. Otherwise, live with it. This is where we are. Good coach, decent recruiting, "clean" program. Get used to it.

But fixing the recruiting and staying clean would actually be very easy. I think that's the problem most people have with this.

[gtowndawg]

Shocker

[IMissJack]

Why is it that Dan gets over a Mil to get a DC, and he can't see that the OL recruiting is as damaging as a revolving door at DC?

[msstate7]

We took Phillips and Richardson early, so we obviously like them. Champion was a 4* out of HS and has a nice offer sheet. Suggs has a nice offer sheet. If we can get carty too, I think this is one of our best oline classes under Mullen

[Bully13]

Isn't UNC on or about to be on bad probation?

[maroonmania]

Isn't UNC on or about to be on bad probation?

Well sounds like a pretty good bet that Sanago ends up on the Plantation so probation isn't always a deterrent.

[Bothrops]

Carty is a must get for this staff.

[msstate7]

Well sounds like a pretty good bet that Sanago ends up on the Plantation so probation isn't always a deterrent.

Does sanago have a commitable offer from us? Either way, if OM lands sanago, Oliver, and Dixon, then they've done a pretty solid job of filling in hole at LB considering their circumstances

[msstate7]

Carty is a must get for this staff.

Yep

[maroonmania]

Does sanago have a commitable offer from us? Either way, if OM lands sanago, Oliver, and Dixon, then they've done a pretty solid job of filling in hole at LB considering their circumstances

Sounds like he does, especially since we appear to have parted ways with Oliver but I don't know for sure.

[preachermatt83]

Get carty, gay, bulovas, and at least one more and I won't melt

Just get willie Gay. Losing him will send me into a rage the likes of which most have never seen.

[preachermatt83]

Does sanago have a commitable offer from us? Either way, if OM lands sanago, Oliver, and Dixon, then they've done a pretty solid job of filling in hole at LB considering their circumstances

Why did I think Oliver was a safety?

[msstate7]

Why did I think Oliver was a safety?

247 has him listed as safety I think, but everyone projects him as lb

[I seen it dawg]

We just don't work hard enough at recruiting for enough time throughout the yr. Grinding from Dec to Feb and in the summer doesn't cut it. We should be on the 18 and 19 guys and we are still trying to find guys for this class.

[lamont]

Exactly- we relax in recruiting from August-November....huge problem

[Really Clark?]

Exactly- we relax in recruiting from August-November....huge problem

Not this year. Half of our class for this year signed in Dec and we had a lot more visits this during the season.

[Todd4State]

We took Phillips and Richardson early, so we obviously like them. Champion was a 4* out of HS and has a nice offer sheet. Suggs has a nice offer sheet. If we can get carty too, I think this is one of our best oline classes under Mullen

That's sad. Two JUCO's- and the reason that we had to get JUCO's in the first place is because one was a sign and place which I can live with and the other because of Hevesy missing out on targets 2-3 years ago. And even though we "pass" on recruits that are "raw" Mississippi kids- what do we do just two years later when chasing some random kid from Georgia or Florida fails? We sign a raw JUCO guy from Mississippi like Phillips. Not to mention the fact that Hevesy missed out on Hayes meaning we have a huge question mark at RT going into the spring. Richardson has some work to do to qualify. Suggs I do like. And I'm not panicking but if we miss on Carty and Richardson doesn't qualify that means that we are bringing in one HS o-lineman this class. So, yeah- getting Carty is pretty big for this staff right now.

Like IMissJack just said we just hired a top 20 DC. It's time to stop being OK with cutting corners with coaches like Hevesy who are a liability with their recruiting. It isn't acceptable anymore. We shouldn't have to take risks on guys like Richardson. The days of winning the Egg Bowl and the Liberty Bowl being a benchmark for a great season at MSU need to be over. Instead, 7-8 wins should be the minimum standard now.

And like Dawgology said- this isn't about cheating our asses off Ole Miss style. All I'm wanting are 4-5 quality 3-4 star high school o-linemen. We shouldn't have to cheat to get that. Hell, even Croom was able to swing the "Four Horsemen" back in the day.

We need an o-line coach that can recruit and evaluate. Period. There is no reason why we can't have one. We don't even have to fire Hevesy or even take him off the field- something that I suspect will become even easier to do when the NCAA likely approves an extra coach in April. I say promote him to AHC, let Dan coach the QB's, and then hire an o-line coach that can recruit and evaluate talent. I don't even think I would mind it if Hevesy coached the o-line some under that set-up- Sherrod and Gabe Jackson did well so Hevesy likely knows what he is doing on some level. The problem obviously is he needs someone to bring them in for him so that he use his strength. The fact that Dan made comments that he may coach the QB's himself gives me some fleeting hope that he might be considering doing just that. Maybe he is just waiting on Hevesy to crap out on recruiting again before he makes the move.

[Todd4State]

Exactly- we relax in recruiting from August-November....huge problem

Do you think we place too much emphasis on the football camp and not enough on trying to find guys after the camp or try to find in state guys that didn't go to the camp? I think that's some of the problem.

[Bully13]

Crooms bunch did better crootin OL than ******* bunch. That just ain't right m

[lamont]

Do you think we place too much emphasis on the football camp and not enough on trying to find guys after the camp or try to find in state guys that didn't go to the camp? I think that's some of the problem.

We are viewed as lazy recruiters. Thats the perception. Whether its true or not? I cant say. But perceptions are hard to overcome and thats the view by coaches in the Fall about our staff

[KB21]

Jordan Tucker commits to UNC

Let's completely ignore the fact that John Hevesy was not Jordan Tucker's recruiter. That was Maurice Linguist. But I understand. This serves as more confirmation bias for some of you that want to continue to push a false narrative.

[BayouDawg]

Crooms bunch did better crootin OL than ******* bunch. That just ain't right m

Our o line coach under Croom was 10 times better than Hevesy as well. Hevesy will keep Mullen from reaching his full potential as a head coach

[BayouDawg]

Let's completely ignore the fact that John Hevesy was not Jordan Tucker's recruiter. That was Maurice Linguist. But I understand. This serves as more confirmation bias for some of you that want to continue to push a false narrative.

Hevesy sucks

[dawgday166]

I luv ole Hev *****

[Todd4State]

Let's completely ignore the fact that John Hevesy was not Jordan Tucker's recruiter. That was Maurice Linguist. But I understand. This serves as more confirmation bias for some of you that want to continue to push a false narrative.

Every recruit has two recruiters- the area coach which in this case was Linguist, and the position coach which is Hevesy.

[HSVDawg]

Every recruit has two recruiters- the area coach which in this case was Linguist, and the position coach which is Hevesy.

Nice job with the clarity Todd, but your efforts are futile. The formal template for the "Hevesy sucks" thread shall not be tampered with, and someone must bring the "primary recruiter" excuse up with each thread. So it is written, and so it always shall be. The full template is below. By my casual tracking, we are about 80% done with this one.

OP: We lost another OL with decent offer sheet to a Power 5 school. Hev SUX!!!

Response 1: Geez, it's like satire now. How does Hev stay employed???

Response 2: When are we gonna move Hevesy to AHC and bring in a real OL coach???

Response 3: We really never had a shot at this guy, he was an out of state guy we got in on late.

Response 4: Hev is a lazy recruiter.

Response 5: Whoooooaa guys, chill out. Hev wasn't even his primary recruiter!!!!

Response 6: /casual explanation that OL coaches are (shockingly) a major factor in recruiting quality OL.

Response 7: Alright everybody calm down. Sucks to lose this guy, as he had some tools. But he was a bit of a project and who knows if he would have developed like we needed him to (blanket statement that applies to any HS OL recruit ever)

Response 8: ****ing **** country club pussies!!!!!!

Response 9 from Dawg61: AWW SHIT THIS AGAIN??? You losers all need to get LAID!!1!!1!!

[DeputyDawg94]

Holy crap! Looks like Hev has an aunt and a sister posting on here. If he is as good an X's and O's coach as some say then let him do that. A coach who was at Aberdeen when Ward and Love were there has told me the same kind of things that the SHS athletic department employee has told me recently. People don't like him. I DO NOT want a tent revivalist but treating people a little better would go a long way. I don't expect our coaches to kiss ass all the time, just stop being one.

[NCDawg]

Our o line coach under Croom was 10 times better than Hevesy as well. Hevesy will keep Mullen from reaching his full potential as a head coach

I agree with this. Nothing we can do about it though, but just be content with less than mediocre play on the OL. Apparently our AD will not require Mullen to get rid of this guy

[Dawg61]

Nice job with the clarity Todd, but your efforts are futile. The formal template for the "Hevesy sucks" thread shall not be tampered with, and someone must bring the "primary recruiter" excuse up with each thread. So it is written, and so it always shall be. The full template is below. By my casual tracking, we are about 80% done with this one.

OP: We lost another OL with decent offer sheet to a Power 5 school. Hev SUX!!!

Response 1: Geez, it's like satire now. How does Hev stay employed???

Response 2: When are we gonna move Hevesy to AHC and bring in a real OL coach???

Response 3: We really never had a shot at this guy, he was an out of state guy we got in on late.

Response 4: Hev is a lazy recruiter.

Response 5: Whoooooaa guys, chill out. Hev wasn't even his primary recruiter!!!!

Response 6: /casual explanation that OL coaches are (shockingly) a major factor in recruiting quality OL.

Response 7: Alright everybody calm down. Sucks to lose this guy, as he had some tools. But he was a bit of a project and who knows if he would have developed like we needed him to (blanket statement that applies to any HS OL recruit ever)

Response 8: ****ing **** country club pussies!!!!!!

Response 9 from Dawg61: AWW SHIT THIS AGAIN??? You losers all need to get LAID!!1!!1!!

Holy shit this is post of the year funny and not just the bolded part, I can't give enough rep for this gold

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HSVDawg again.

[1bigdawg]

Couple of notes: I believe we will get Carty. I also believe we are his only SEC offer at this point as I think others have backed off.

At this point, Suggs may be the only HS OL we get who had legitimate SEC offers.

It is amazing to me that we can recruit as well as we do at all of the defensive positions with our revolving door coordinators, but can't recruit OLs or WRs where is have stability. It tells me a lot about the coaches effort.

Your turn, DAWG61.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Nice job with the clarity Todd, but your efforts are futile. The formal template for the "Hevesy sucks" thread shall not be tampered with, and someone must bring the "primary recruiter" excuse up with each thread. So it is written, and so it always shall be. The full template is below. By my casual tracking, we are about 80% done with this one.

OP: We lost another OL with decent offer sheet to a Power 5 school. Hev SUX!!!

Response 1: Geez, it's like satire now. How does Hev stay employed???

Response 2: When are we gonna move Hevesy to AHC and bring in a real OL coach???

Response 3: We really never had a shot at this guy, he was an out of state guy we got in on late.

Response 4: Hev is a lazy recruiter.

Response 5: Whoooooaa guys, chill out. Hev wasn't even his primary recruiter!!!!

Response 6: /casual explanation that OL coaches are (shockingly) a major factor in recruiting quality OL.

Response 7: Alright everybody calm down. Sucks to lose this guy, as he had some tools. But he was a bit of a project and who knows if he would have developed like we needed him to (blanket statement that applies to any HS OL recruit ever)

Response 8: ****ing **** country club pussies!!!!!!

Response 9 from Dawg61: AWW SHIT THIS AGAIN??? You losers all need to get LAID!!1!!1!!

http://learningcurve.dmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Old-School-Debate-Meme.png

[Dawg61]

It is amazing to me that we can recruit as well as we do at all of the defensive positions with our revolving door coordinators, but can't recruit OLs or WRs where is have stability. It tells me a lot about the coaches effort.

Your turn, DAWG61.

My turn, ok I think Mullen loves turning nobody's into somebodies more than anything else. More than winning. He'd rather go get a 3* with only a UT Chattanooga offer that has the want to to be great and see if he can make him into that than deal with kissing 5* asses all day long. It's worked for him at the QB position but he is having a hard time translating it into the other positions on offense. Defense he stays out of mostly and that's why you see higher rated guys signing with us because the coaches on that side of the ball play the kiss ass recruiting game better than Mullen. Mullen is super happy in life right now because of what is going on with Dak. That is his baby and holy shit his baby has taken over the world in less than a year. Mullen isn't stressed out about signing 4* OL like the rest of y'all. He doesn't give a shit when he wakes up everyday and his boy Dak Prescott is the talk of the football world and he justifies not giving a shit by the fact that he has turned Dak and now Fitz into stars. He lets his success at developing under the radar QBs cloud his judgement with the other positions during recruiting.

[1bigdawg]

My turn, ok I think Mullen loves turning nobody's into somebodies more than anything else. More than winning. He'd rather go get a 3* with only a UT Chattanooga offer that has the want to to be great and see if he can make him into that than deal with kissing 5* asses all day long. It's worked for him at the QB position but he is having a hard time translating it into the other positions on offense.

Dawg61, I agree with everything in your post. It works with QBs because Mullen can identify QB potential as well or better than anyone. It is my belief that it is not working with OL. I know we have some differences there. Now, we did whiff on OL evaluations for a couple of years and seem to have gotten better lately. This could become moot. But why can't Hevesy get along with HS coaches and players. It makes no sense.

I wish Mullen could see that our D talent can play with the big boys, but our OL holds us back against many teams. I know our D sucked this year, that is why I said our D "talent."

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Couple of notes: I believe we will get Carty. I also believe we are his only SEC offer at this point as I think others have backed off.

At this point, Suggs may be the only HS OL we get who had legitimate SEC offers.

It is amazing to me that we can recruit as well as we do at all of the defensive positions with our revolving door coordinators, but can't recruit OLs or WRs where is have stability. It tells me a lot about the coaches effort.

Your turn, DAWG61.

Carty still has other SEC interest.

[Dawg61]

I wish Mullen could see that our D talent can play with the big boys, but our OL holds us back against many teams. I know our D sucked this year, that is why I said our D "talent."

Can't fix something when it doesn't appear to be a problem to you like everyone else is seeing it as a problem. It you look at our offensive stats they do not suggest a problem with the OL. If you look at our defensive stats they do suggest a problem with our defense so Mullen fixed it by hiring Grantham. If we had porous offensive numbers like we did on defense I am pretty sure you'd see Mullen's love for Hevesy end very quickly but that is the problem. We don't have a porous offense so why should he fire his best friend on his coaching staff? Everyone continuously beating on Hevesy is only making Mullen dig in deeper with him. Nobody can justify to Mullen on why he needs a better OL coach when Mullen has set 8 seasons of offensive records at this school in the 8 years he's been here and when his QB he developed is the talk of the NFL football world. You can't reach that guy with logic. He isn't going to listen to you or anybody else his number has been disconnected.

[1bigdawg]

Can't fix something when it doesn't appear to be a problem to you like everyone else is seeing it as a problem.

Great leaders listen to outside feedback.

[TrapGame]

Can't fix something when it doesn't appear to be a problem to you like everyone else is seeing it as a problem. It you look at our offensive stats they do not suggest a problem with the OL. If you look at our defensive stats they do suggest a problem with our defense so Mullen fixed it by hiring Grantham. If we had porous offensive numbers like we did on defense I am pretty sure you'd see Mullen's love for Hevesy end very quickly but that is the problem. We don't have a porous offense so why should he fire his best friend on his coaching staff? Everyone continuously beating on Hevesy is only making Mullen dig in deeper with him. Nobody can justify to Mullen on why he needs a better OL coach when Mullen has set 8 seasons of offensive records at this school in the 8 years he's been here and when his QB he developed is the talk of the NFL football world. You can't reach that guy with logic. He isn't going to listen to you or anybody else his number has been disconnected.

So true 61, but the rest of board just goes on like...

https://afeatheradrift.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/sticksfingersinearsthatneverhappenedlalala_62debfc 271b582ee34db073fac56a57c.gif

[Irondawg]

Look the issues on Oline is that when we offer a guy, it's because we want them. I would agree more with the diamond in the rough stuff if we offered these type guys early. The issue is we don't do well on the guys we target early and constatntly end up offering the guys we clearly also rate lower because we don't offer until two weeks before signing day. Sometimes it works out but lots of times it hasn't. But it does show that we struggle with getting guys that are high on our list at certain positions when we have to compete with others.

[Dawg61]

Great leaders listen to outside feedback.

Very true but they also know how to tune out the noise and all this Hevesy/OL bitching is just noise to Mullen

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

Nebraska coach Mike Riley fired a guy who had been with him for 20 years over 2 different teams. It can be done Dan.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/01/11/cornhuskers-riley-fires-defensive-coordinator-mark-banker/96469346/

[starkvegasdawg]

Gifs / memes of what I think of when I think of Hev recruiting:

http://i.imgur.com/iqBpW14.gif

http://i.imgur.com/ggt4cZ0.gif

http://i.imgur.com/pxYxDBW.jpg

[Dawg61]

Look the issues on Oline is that when we offer a guy, it's because we want them. I would agree more with the diamond in the rough stuff if we offered these type guys early. The issue is we don't do well on the guys we target early and constatntly end up offering the guys we clearly also rate lower because we don't offer until two weeks before signing day. Sometimes it works out but lots of times it hasn't. But it does show that we struggle with getting guys that are high on our list at certain positions when we have to compete with others.

All of this is true but again the problem is that we are very productive on offense and Nick Fitz just came within a [unt hair of beating the All-Time single season rushing record for an SEC QB. Just barely missed beating Cam Newton's record the year he won the NC. Mullen ain't listening to y'all about problems with his OL when his sophomore QB just did that. Seriously think about that for a second. Nick Fitz, the guy with only a UTC offer, just barely missed the highest rushing total for a QB in the entire SEC's history. That does not suggest a problem with our OL and our OL coach.

[BrunswickDawg]

All of this is true but again the problem is that we are very productive on offense and Nick Fitz just came within a [unt hair of beating the All-Time single season rushing record for an SEC QB. Just barely missed beating Cam Newton's record the year he won the NC. Mullen ain't listening to y'all about problems with his OL when his sophomore QB just did that. Seriously think about that for a second. Nick Fitz, the guy with only a UTC offer, just barely missed the highest rushing total for a QB in the entire SEC's history. That does not suggest a problem with our OL and our OL coach.

And this year saw the 2nd highest total of Rushing Yards in the Mullen Era - only missing 2014 by 33 yards. We were 3rd in the SEC in TFL Allowed. And we were 2nd in the SEC in Sacks Allowed with 18 - our lowest total in the Mullen Era. So you are right, while the recruiting side may not be rosey, the performance side looks as good as it has been in Hev era.

It really does create a crazy scenario.

[fader2103]

We need an o-line coach that can recruit and evaluate. Period. There is no reason why we can't have one. We don't even have to fire Hevesy or even take him off the field- something that I suspect will become even easier to do when the NCAA likely approves an extra coach in April. I say promote him to AHC, let Dan coach the QB's, and then hire an o-line coach that can recruit and evaluate talent. I don't even think I would mind it if Hevesy coached the o-line some under that set-up- Sherrod and Gabe Jackson did well so Hevesy likely knows what he is doing on some level. The problem obviously is he needs someone to bring them in for him so that he use his strength. The fact that Dan made comments that he may coach the QB's himself gives me some fleeting hope that he might be considering doing just that. Maybe he is just waiting on Hevesy to crap out on recruiting again before he makes the move.

Why not move Hev to TE, take Sallach and put him in the office, go and hire a OL coach? Of course this based off if we don't get the extra coach

[Really Clark?]

Great leaders listen to outside feedback.

Great leaders listen to insiders and outsiders and know how to discern what is important to pull them together to solve the heart of the problem and maintain the vision. They then lead the people on that path with the right heart and determination even when the people themselves doubt the plan, dissent or have to be pulled that direction. Just because people who follow the leader dissent with some of the decisions doesn't make either of them wrong. But remember the leader has the opinions from multiple sources inside and out and intimate knowledge of what needs to be done, you just have your opinion.

[NCDawg]

Great leaders listen to insiders and outsiders and know how to discern what is important to pull them together to solve the heart of the problem and maintain the vision. They then lead the people on that path with the right heart and determination even when the people themselves doubt the plan, dissent or have to be pulled that direction. Just because people who follow the leader dissent with some of the decisions doesn't make either of them wrong. But remember the leader has the opinions from multiple sources inside and out and intimate knowledge of what needs to be done, you just have your opinion.

Very thoughtful and reasonable analysis. It is my thoughtful analysis and opinion, however, that we will never get to Atlanta unless we get a better OL coach.

[maroonmania]

All of this is true but again the problem is that we are very productive on offense and Nick Fitz just came within a [unt hair of beating the All-Time single season rushing record for an SEC QB. Just barely missed beating Cam Newton's record the year he won the NC. Mullen ain't listening to y'all about problems with his OL when his sophomore QB just did that. Seriously think about that for a second. Nick Fitz, the guy with only a UTC offer, just barely missed the highest rushing total for a QB in the entire SEC's history. That does not suggest a problem with our OL and our OL coach.

Well actually we are overall a productive offense but the problem is when we play teams that have really talented defensive lines. Like Bama every year, LSU most years, or even UNM (in 2014 and 2015). When we get against those type teams we can't run the ball and our QB gets sacked over and over because our OL gets totally exposed. Hev is fine if we are satisfied with being average to good on offense (i.e 6-8 wins per year most years) but that is our ceiling with the current level of OL play we have. And a lot of that is based on how experienced we happen to be. 2014 we had just average talent on the OL but they had all played together for 3-4 years.

[AROB44]

Well actually we are overall a productive offense but the problem is when we play teams that have really talented defensive lines. Like Bama every year, LSU most years, or even UNM (in 2014 and 2015). When we get against those type teams we can't run the ball and our QB gets sacked over and over because our OL gets totally exposed. Hev is fine if we are satisfied with being average to good on offense (i.e 6-8 wins per year most years) but that is our ceiling with the current level of OL play we have. And a lot of that is based on how experienced we happen to be. 2014 we had just average talent on the OL but they had all played together for 3-4 years.

When I read threads like this that mention Bama, I begin to believe that the problem most people have is that we can't beat Bama. Well....almost nobody does. And as far as winning 6-8 games a year, I really don't think that is our ceiling. But....we are not going to beat Bama except once on a great while and also will not beat LSU on a consistent basis. That is what happens when you are in the SEC West. Just count me as one of those that is happy with what Mullen has done and hope he stays around and continues doing it. What he does with assistant coaches is his decision. He is betting his job on how they and a bunch of 18-22 year olds do.

[msstate7]

Well actually we are overall a productive offense but the problem is when we play teams that have really talented defensive lines. Like Bama every year, LSU most years, or even UNM (in 2014 and 2015). When we get against those type teams we can't run the ball and our QB gets sacked over and over because our OL gets totally exposed. Hev is fine if we are satisfied with being average to good on offense (i.e 6-8 wins per year most years) but that is our ceiling with the current level of OL play we have. And a lot of that is based on how experienced we happen to be. 2014 we had just average talent on the OL but they had all played together for 3-4 years.

Lsu got us good in sacks, but aTm and bama were 1-2 in sec in sacks and only got 3 combined (all 3 by bama which was one of their lowest totals on the year)

If you take the average of lsu, aTm, and bama sacks per game, it comes out to 3.2 per game. Against those 3, we gave up 9 sacks, so 3.0 per game... less than their normal

[Irondawg]

I have no doubt we were better last year but it's because we had some experience there but we were razor thin. We've been relatively fortunate with injuries but if we had 2 guys go down we'd be in big trouble I fear.
Plus the argument is really his recruiting and can he convince guys to play here.

We just don't win a lot of those and you have multiple reports that he's really bad at recruiting. So thinknif we could get him more talent because overall the coaching itself has been fine.

[Dawg61]

but the problem is when we play teams that have really talented defensive lines. Like Bama every year, LSU most years,

Don't be another victim of Saban destroying football programs. Nobody can run on Saban. Nobody! He has been top 10 in the nation vs the run every year he has been at Bama and FOUR OF THOSE TIMES he had the #1 rushing defense in the country. Saban is driving everyone in the SEC to destroy their programs and try with someone new because NOBODY can beat him. Florida is on its second coach since Meyer left and they are still not happy at all. Georgia fired Richt and aren't very happy with the new guy. Tennessee is on their 3rd coach since firing Fulmer and are a 6-6 season away from turning on Butch. South Carolina = not happy. Missouri = not happy. Kentucky wasn't happy till the end of this last year. Vanderbilt is the only school in the East currently feeling pretty solid with their coach that won't turn on him very quickly. Auburn = not happy and about to fire Gus this next year probably. Old Misses is a disaster. aTm is not happy and wants to fire their coach. Arkansas is not happy and are 50/50 on firing fat Burt. LSU just fired their coach and will turn on Ogre as soon as he can't beat Bama.

The reason all these schools are not happy is ultimately because of Saban and Bama. Everyone wants what they got. Everyone wants to be that good. Nobody is that good every year but Saban. Don't let Saban do to us what he has done to every other SEC fanbase except Vanderbilt.

[maroonmania]

Don't be another victim of Saban destroying football programs. Nobody can run on Saban. Nobody! He has been top 10 in the nation vs the run every year he has been at Bama and FOUR OF THOSE TIMES he had the #1 rushing defense in the country. Saban is driving everyone in the SEC to destroy their programs and try with someone new because NOBODY can beat him. Florida is on its second coach since Meyer left and they are still not happy at all. Georgia fired Richt and aren't very happy with the new guy. Tennessee is on their 3rd coach since firing Fulmer and are a 6-6 season away from turning on Butch. South Carolina = not happy. Missouri = not happy. Kentucky wasn't happy till the end of this last year. Vanderbilt is the only school in the East currently feeling pretty solid with their coach that won't turn on him very quickly. Auburn = not happy and about to fire Gus this next year probably. Old Misses is a disaster. aTm is not happy and wants to fire their coach. Arkansas is not happy and are 50/50 on firing fat Burt. LSU just fired their coach and will turn on Ogre as soon as he can't beat Bama.

The reason all these schools are not happy is ultimately because of Saban and Bama. Everyone wants what they got. Everyone wants to be that good. Nobody is that good every year but Saban. Don't let Saban do to us what he has done to every other SEC fanbase except Vanderbilt.

Like I've said, most years our OL is serviceable enough to win 7-8 games if we have a decent defense. This year we didn't have a decent defense so we were down at 5 wins. Now in 2015, running wasn't just a Bama problem, it was the fact we couldn't run on anyone, not even Troy. So that year we just let Dak throw it or scramble out of the pocket 90% of the time. And that worked a lot until Dak almost got killed by the pass rush of the Bama and UNM DLs. This year we improved significantly on that. Hev is a pretty decent OL coach and we do luck up into enough developmental talent that we can usually field a competitive offense overall. SO, if it is going to take having offenses multiple years at the bottom of the NCAA rankings (like we had defensively this year) then you are right, Hev will be here forever, because that is unlikely to happen. But I don't realistically ever see us being a real factor to challenge for the West with the current quality of Hev's unit either except on very rare occasions like 2014 where a bunch of guys have played together a LONG time.

[lamont]

There are 2-3 teams every year that we can't block- it's not just Bama

2014- it was OM, UPig, and Bama
2015/ it was Bama, LSU, and OM until the game was out of reach and we scored on the last 2 drives in the 4th
2016- it was LSU, Auburn, and Bama

Our lack of talent on the OL will always keep us in the 6-8 win range. The SEC is a LOS league.

[HoopsDawg]

Like I've said, most years our OL is serviceable enough to win 7-8 games if we have a decent defense. This year we didn't have a decent defense so we were down at 5 wins. Now in 2015, running wasn't just a Bama problem, it was the fact we couldn't run on anyone, not even Troy. So that year we just let Dak throw it or scramble out of the pocket 90% of the time. And that worked a lot until Dak almost got killed by the pass rush of the Bama and UNM DLs. This year we improved significantly on that. Hev is a pretty decent OL coach and we do luck up into enough developmental talent that we can usually field a competitive offense overall. SO, if it is going to take having offenses multiple years at the bottom of the NCAA rankings (like we had defensively this year) then you are right, Hev will be here forever, because that is unlikely to happen. But I don't realistically ever see us being a real factor to challenge for the West with the current quality of Hev's unit either except on very rare occasions like 2014 where a bunch of guys have played together a LONG time.

Never argue with just one person. There is always going to be one or two posters that don't get it.

[Dawg61]

There are 2-3 teams every year that we can't block- it's not just Bama

How many SEC programs have averaged 9.5 wins a year for the last 8 years?

[msstate7]

There are 2-3 teams every year that we can't block- it's not just Bama

2014- it was OM, UPig, and Bama
2015/ it was Bama, LSU, and OM until the game was out of reach and we scored on the last 2 drives in the 4th
2016- it was LSU, Auburn, and Bama

Our lack of talent on the OL will always keep us in the 6-8 win range. The SEC is a LOS league.

Isn't that true for every team in the sec save bama?

[Commercecomet24]

Isn't that true for every team in the sec save bama?

Yes.

[lamont]

How many SEC programs have averaged 9.5 wins a year for the last 8 years?

We don't average 9.5 wins per year under Mullen

Under 8 years of Mullen we have:

2 5 win seasons
2 6 win seasons
3 8 win seasons
1 10 win season

50% of Mullen's tenure we have won 6 games or less. And we also play the easiest OOC every season in the SEC. We have rarely played another P5 school outside the SEC in the regular season

And those are the kinds of results you expect with our OL recruiting

[msstate7]

Yes.

Kinda what I thought. So if we get rid of our oline coach that obviously does a decent to good job, will we be guaranteed to recruit olinemen better than aTm, lsu, auburn, etc?

[msstate7]

We don't average 9.5 wins per year under Mullen

Under 8 years of Mullen we have:

2 5 win seasons
2 6 win seasons
3 8 win seasons
1 10 win season

50% of Mullen's tenure we have won 6 games or less. And we also play the easiest OOC every season in the SEC. We have rarely played another P5 school outside the SEC in the regular season

And those are the kinds of results you expect with our OL recruiting

Yet smart won 8 games this year according to you.

[Really Clark?]

There are 2-3 teams every year that we can't block- it's not just Bama

2014- it was OM, UPig, and Bama
2015/ it was Bama, LSU, and OM until the game was out of reach and we scored on the last 2 drives in the 4th
2016- it was LSU, Auburn, and Bama

Our lack of talent on the OL will always keep us in the 6-8 win range. The SEC is a LOS league.

Wait a minute, as someone who wants Hev replaced, I can't let you cherry pick like that. That is completely intellectual and statistically dishonest. You can't just be aribitrary like that. You could take any team, even Bama, and make that type of accusation and make it hold up statistically that an OL has trouble with 2-3 teams a year. You have to have a baseline, context, a bigger sample size, similar opponents, and if you are going over multiple years you have to have a specific criteria. You cannot just take 2-3 arbitrary teams each season, with that also not exactly same, that we struggled with and say it's always 2-3 teams without some specific criteria. You can say that about every team in the country, college or pro, and made a weakness sound worse.

Conversely, same applies the opposite direction. You can't just cherry pick the best 2-3 games either. The man is an albatross as a recruiter and because of other issues he needs to be replaced. But he can coach football and the OL. Coach57, whom many many on here have respect for, as said it multiply times. That's not the issue. There are not many OL coach who are decent recruiters and I don't care if they are because they need to be a coach first and last. He just can't overcome his negative recruiting at this point (from the outside as well) to make up for it with his coaching.

[msstate7]

Never argue with just one person. There is always going to be one or two posters that don't get it.

Apparently Mullen doesn't get it either. If only Mullen were as smart as us on ED...

[lamont]

Yet smart won 8 games this year according to you.

Smart was 7-5 in the regular season. That's where you are judged

[msstate7]

Smart was 7-5 in the regular season. That's where you are judged

Bama should be champions... they were 12-0 in regular season and Clemson was only 11-1.

[lamont]

Wait a minute, as someone who wants Hev replaced, I can't let you cherry pick like that. That is completely intellectual and statistically dishonest. You can't just be aribitrary like that. You could take any team, even Bama, and make that type of accusation and make it hold up statistically that an OL has trouble with 2-3 teams a year. You have to have a baseline, context, a bigger sample size, similar opponents, and if you are going over multiple years you have to have a specific criteria. You cannot just take 2-3 arbitrary teams each season, with that also not exactly same, that we struggled with and say it's always 2-3 teams without some specific criteria. You can say that about every team in the country, college or pro, and made a weakness sound worse.

Conversely, same applies the opposite direction. You can't just cherry pick the best 2-3 games either. The man is an albatross as a recruiter and because of other issues he needs to be replaced. But he can coach football and the OL. Coach57, whom many many on here have respect for, as said it multiply times. That's not the issue. There are not many OL coach who are decent recruiters and I don't care if they are because they need to be a coach first and last. He just can't overcome his negative recruiting at this point (from the outside as well) to make up for it with his coaching.

Hev is a very good OL coach- I've never said different. But I do say that we simply don't recruit enough talent on the OL to have a serious chance at winning the SEC

[lamont]

Bama should be champions... they were 12-0 in regular season and Clemson was only 11-1.

You are just being thick headed on purpose right now.

Bama was judged on their regular season and chosen for the playoffs.
We were judged on our regular season and played a nobody from a shit conference

[msstate7]

Hev is a very good OL coach- I've never said different. But I do say that we simply don't recruit enough talent on the OL to have a serious chance at winning the SEC
Apparently neither does lsu, Georgia, Florida, aTm, etc

[msstate7]

You are just being thick headed on purpose right now.

Bama was judged on their regular season and chosen for the playoffs.
We were judged on our regular season and played a nobody from a shit conference

Postseason games count. You telling me our win over Michigan in '10 was less than our win over Alcorn state?

[maroonmania]

Apparently neither does lsu, Georgia, Florida, aTm, etc

Look, for EVERYONE that is totally happy with what we are doing currently, that being winning from 5-8 games a year (regular season), then its all good. Hev is your man and we are good to go. Now, some of us would like to TRY and improve rather than just sit at status quo with an artificial ceiling because we have an assistant coach over one of our most important units on the field that is a horse's rear end to deal with and can't develop relationships with HS coaches BECAUSE of that.

[Dawg61]

We don't average 9.5 wins per year under Mullen

Under 8 years of Mullen we have:

2 5 win seasons
2 6 win seasons
3 8 win seasons
1 10 win season

50% of Mullen's tenure we have won 6 games or less. And we also play the easiest OOC every season in the SEC. We have rarely played another P5 school outside the SEC in the regular season

And those are the kinds of results you expect with our OL recruiting

I know we haven't averaged 9.5 wins the last 8 years. That's not what I asked you. I asked you how many SEC teams have averaged 9.5 wins for 8 years?

[msstate7]

Look, for EVERYONE that is totally happy with what we are doing currently, that being winning from 5-8 games a year (regular season), then its all good. Hev is your man and we are good to go. Now, some of us would like to TRY and improve rather than just sit at status quo with an artificial ceiling because we have an assistant coach over one of our most important units on the field that is a horse's rear end to deal with and can't develop relationships with HS coaches BECAUSE of that.

I'm not some big Hev fan. I just realize dan wants him and he's not going anywhere. Therefore I don't see the point of 24/7 bashing.

What little I find out about recruiting is by reading message boards of ours and other teams. Now if I do this, doesn't it stand to reason that recruits do also? Now if say carty is reading ED at any time, he's seeing a constant assault on Hev as a coach and a man. That would give me second thought about signing up to play for him. Bc of this I look for the good things that Hev has done and post them. During the stretch run of recruiting, I don't find a constant assault beneficial to our football program at all. Maybe I'm wrong though...

[BrunswickDawg]

I know we haven't averaged 9.5 wins the last 8 years. That's not what I asked you. I asked you how many SEC teams have averaged 9.5 wins for 8 years?

Well, if you include Bowl/Post Season (which you should, they count) - Bama avg. 12.5 and LSU 9.75. UGA is the only other team close at 9.

West breaks down
Bama 12.5
LSU 9.75
T&M 8.8 (5 yrs in SEC)
AU 8.5
MSU 7.6
ARK 7.4
OM 6.8

East
UGA 9
UF 8.6
SC 8.1
MO 7.4 (5 yr)
UT 6.6
Vandy 5.1
KY 4.9

Our 8 years prior saw us average 3.6 wins per season.
And the Kang's "run" from 91-00 saw a 6.6 avg.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I don't think the fact that Hevesy is an asshole can be hidden from recruits after they meet him in person, but no one really disagrees he can coach.

[tcdog70]

every Year since Moby Dick was a Minnow we have played LSU and Bama. Nobody runs the ball on either One of those Schools. So out of our 8 SEC games you can count on the fact that Scoring by running will be almost impossible against 1/4 of our SEC schedule. Now it is not only MSU but any other team in the SEC west. So be careful how you fire a Coach because He is dominated by those Schools Defense, Most of the football World is dominated by them.

[DeputyDawg94]

I'd love to find out what the man could do with a legitimate SEC line. Rankin was the only starter with an SEC offer other than us if I'm not mistaken. That's not too much to ask is it?

[Dawg61]

My point exactly. Only Bama and LSU average 9.5 wins or better yet some of y'all expect us to. Wish I could find the SPS post/thread where C34 said our best case scenario that we could ever hope to achieve as a program was 7-8 wins a year. Boy has that changed.

[tcdog70]

My point exactly. Only Bama and LSU average 9.5 wins or better yet some of y'all expect us to. Wish I could find the SPS post/thread where C34 said our best case scenario that we could ever hope to achieve as a program was 7-8 wins a year. Boy has that changed.

don't be pissed because we lose to LSU and Bama but be very pissed with a loss to KY-BYU and South Alabama.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

When was the last time we had a starting line settled going into the season? It seems we're a game or few into the season before we settle on a lineup. Playing guys out of position due to misses on the recruiting trail will do that.

[Cooterpoot]

I don't think the fact that Hevesy is an asshole can be hidden from recruits after they meet him in person, but no one really disagrees he can coach.

Rick Trickett is a bigger asshole than Hev could ever aspire to be. If there's one place you want an asshole coach it's OL. OL isn't for pusses.

[1bigdawg]

every Year since Moby Dick was a Minnow we have played LSU and Bama. Nobody runs the ball on either One of those Schools. So out of our 8 SEC games you can count on the fact that Scoring by running will be almost impossible against 1/4 of our SEC schedule. Now it is not only MSU but any other team in the SEC west. So be careful how you fire a Coach because He is dominated by those Schools Defense, Most of the football World is dominated by them.

The question is, "Do you want to do better, to aspire to greatness?" If you do, you find a way not to be dominated by those schools (or BYU). Are we satisfied at our current level or do we want to do better. I came close to firing a CEO who worked for one of my companies because he went from the 98th percentile of companies in our business to the 94th. He kept bragging about being in the 94th percentile, saying how "great" it was. I said, getting to 94 is great, going from 98th percentile to 94th was not great. I said that if he did not want to be the best, he could not work for me. He got religion and I am confident that he will do better going forward.

Does Hev aspire to be the best, or good enough to keep his job considering he works for his best friend? Why doesn't Mullen aspire to have the best working for him? Why is this good enough?

[I seen it dawg]

We don't average 9.5 wins per year under Mullen

Under 8 years of Mullen we have:

2 5 win seasons
2 6 win seasons
3 8 win seasons
1 10 win season

50% of Mullen's tenure we have won 6 games or less. And we also play the easiest OOC every season in the SEC. We have rarely played another P5 school outside the SEC in the regular season

And those are the kinds of results you expect with our OL recruiting

That's 7 per on average if scoring at home

[I seen it dawg]

The question is, "Do you want to do better, to aspire to greatness?" If you do, you find a way not to be dominated by those schools (or BYU). Are we satisfied at our current level or do we want to do better. I came close to firing a CEO who worked for one of my companies because he went from the 98th percentile of companies in our business to the 94th. He kept bragging about being in the 94th percentile, saying how "great" it was. I said, getting to 94 is great, going from 98th percentile to 94th was not great. I said that if he did not want to be the best, he could not work for me. He got religion and I am confident that he will do better going forward.

Does Hev aspire to be the best, or good enough to keep his job considering he works for his best friend? Why doesn't Mullen aspire to have the best working for him? Why is this good enough?

Now how in the samshit is this so hard for people to understand? I want anyone to dispute and prove how this is wrong..

[lamont]

Hev is a good OL coach

But its just a fact we do not sign NFL talent on the OL. There is no reason we cant pull 1 4-star OL guy in per year. We have recruited outstanding talent at every other position on our football team except OL under Mullen. Whatever we need to do to fix that needs to happen.

[Todd4State]

Now how in the samshit is this so hard for people to understand? I want anyone to dispute and prove how this is wrong..

It's like our fans can't believe that we actually could be a program that is legit. I don't understand it either and that's really the only thing I can come up with. We do have the most patient fanbase in the SEC by far- and we're probably the only one that actually considers that we might screw up a hire. Being patient is good sometimes and other times it's not so good. Everywhere else in the SEC Hevesy would have been demoted or fired three years ago. Just expecting to lose to Alabama and LSU just because they are Alabama and LSU and being OK with not being competitive is a loser mentality. I don't expect to beat them every time- but I do ask that we be competitive and that regardless of our situation vs. other schools that whomever our coach is does everything within their control to give us the very best chance to win.

If we are not doing the very best we can or we have a coach that isn't pulling their weight- a change should be made in some form or fashion. And there is a legitimate compromise where Hevesy could even remain on staff and even his biggest detractors would probably be OK with it and at the same time we would improve our recruiting which would make us better as a team and make everyone happy.

Like Mingione when he was our hitting coach- he's not a great hitting coach at all and his strength is in recruiting. So, Cohen put him in a position where he could recruit for us and he had whomever his volunteer assistant was supplement the staff as a hitting coach and it worked out pretty well for us for the most part. I hope Cohen gives Dan some good advice as to how to handle this in a way where everyone wins.

We just hired a top 20 DC. We should have a top 20 OL coach. We recruit reasonably well at the other position groups- for the Billy G detractors he has a commitment from one of the top players in the state next year in Malik Heath and Gray and Reggie Todd were both four star guys. The last four star guy Hevesy pulled in was Rankin.

[Todd4State]

Rick Trickett is a bigger asshole than Hev could ever aspire to be. If there's one place you want an asshole coach it's OL. OL isn't for pusses.

You can be an asshole and still recruit well.

And you mention Trickett- he's one of the best ever in football history. Rockey freaking Felker brought him in after we went Tech and 10. And we can't do better now?

[msstate7]

Delete

[Dawg61]

Now how in the samshit is this so hard for people to understand? I want anyone to dispute and prove how this is wrong..

It isn't wrong but going from 3.6 wins a year to 7.6 wins a year isn't really the same as going from 98th percentile to 94th percentile. That'd be more like going from 98th to 28th and he sure as shit wouldn't be threatening to fire him if he made that type of jump.

Here's what some of y'all are missing. Dan Mullen has called your bluff. He isn't firing Hevesy. He knows you don't like him and he doesn't care. Hevesy is clearly still more valuable to him than y'alls dislike for him is. You ain't firing Mullen so there is no longer anything that can be done here. All this piling on of Hevesy is only hurting future recruiting for us. It is accomplishing nothing else.

[Todd4State]

It isn't wrong but going from 3.6 wins a year to 7.6 wins a year isn't really the same as going from 98th percentile to 94th percentile. That'd be more like going from 98th to 28th and he sure as shit wouldn't be threatening to fire him if he made that type of jump.

Here's what some of y'all are missing. Dan Mullen has called your bluff. He isn't firing Hevesy. He knows you don't like him and he doesn't care. Hevesy is clearly still more valuable to him than y'alls dislike for him is. You ain't firing Mullen so there is no longer anything that can be done here. All this piling on of Hevesy is only hurting future recruiting for us. It is accomplishing nothing else.

Calling our bluff? What are you talking about? How many DC's have people said sucked that he has fired? Even if that were true (which it's not) all Dan would be doing is undermining himself and his ultimate goals.

I guarantee you nothing said on this board hurts our o-line recruiting as much as Hevesy not calling recruits and being a jerk to high school coaches. Or telling a guy that started for Clemson this year that we didn't want him because his hands were too small.

[Dawg61]

Calling our bluff? What are you talking about?

Y'all clearly want Hevesy fired is what and Mullen isn't going to do it so the next step in that bluff is to threaten to fire Mullen and nobody is doing that soooooo that is called CALLING YOUR BLUFF. Why are we still talking about Hevesy then?

Like I said at the very beginning of this thread. Not this shit again.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Dog-Slaps-Man-in-Face.gif

[Todd4State]

Y'all clearly want Hevesy fired is what and Mullen isn't going to do it so the next step in that bluff is to threaten to fire Mullen and nobody is doing that soooooo that is called CALLING YOUR BLUFF. Why are we still talking about Hevesy then?

Like I said at the very beginning of this thread. Not this shit again.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Dog-Slaps-Man-in-Face.gif

I've said multiple times in this very thread that we should re-assign him- not fire him. There's no "bluff being called" at all. If I was so hell bent on him being fired, why would I be OK with making him the assistant head coach?

[Dawg61]

I've said multiple times in this very thread that we should re-assign him- not fire him. There's no "bluff being called" at all. If I was so hell bent on him being fired, why would I be OK with making him the assistant head coach?

Mullen isn't doing that either. The message has been delivered to Mullen already.

Here's C34 in 2013 btw.

"Coach34
02-26-2013, 04:33 PM
Mullen is raising the floor, not the ceiling of MSU football. We'll see what happens in 2012.

Thats all Stansbury did- and some want to call him our best coach ever

I'd like to know exactly what you think our ceiling is- because it damn sure isnt 10 wins per season...like Jackie showed and now Mullen- our best hope is to get consistent in hopes of putting together a special group that can challenge big for a season or two.

8-9 wins seasons are the ceiling for State, OM, Missouri, Vandy, Kentucky and probably UPig and Tennessee moving forward"



The very next season we won 10 games. Suddenly y'all have moved the goalposts and are now expecting Mullen to be winning 9.5 games a year. Something C34 said COULD NOT BE DONE AT MSU!!

[lamont]

Mullen isn't doing that either. The message has been delivered to Mullen already.

Here's C34 in 2013 btw.

"Coach34
02-26-2013, 04:33 PM
Mullen is raising the floor, not the ceiling of MSU football. We'll see what happens in 2012.

Thats all Stansbury did- and some want to call him our best coach ever

I'd like to know exactly what you think our ceiling is- because it damn sure isnt 10 wins per season...like Jackie showed and now Mullen- our best hope is to get consistent in hopes of putting together a special group that can challenge big for a season or two.

8-9 wins seasons are the ceiling for State, OM, Missouri, Vandy, Kentucky and probably UPig and Tennessee moving forward"



The very next season we won 10 games. Suddenly y'all have moved the goalposts and are now expecting Mullen to be winning 9.5 games a year. Something C34 said COULD NOT BE DONE AT MSU!!

we won 5 games this year- and will be predicted to win finish 6th or 7th in the SEC in 2017.

We just expect him to recruit better on the OL. 1 player recruited by Mullen/Hev has made an NFL roster. 1

[DancingRabbit]

Seems like it would be reasonable to tone down the anti-Hev narrative until NSD

[maroonmania]

Seems like it would be reasonable to tone down the anti-Hev narrative until NSD

Probably a good idea but what do you expect when half the board keeps complaining about our OL recruiting leading up to NSD (per the usual). That is going to lead back to you know who.

[maroonmania]

I've said multiple times in this very thread that we should re-assign him- not fire him. There's no "bluff being called" at all. If I was so hell bent on him being fired, why would I be OK with making him the assistant head coach?

You've mentioned several times about the AHC thing but seriously, I've never heard of a guy on a staff having an Assistant HC title that didn't also coach a position somewhere on the team. Would seem to just be a waste of a staff position if he was only the AHC.

[Todd4State]

You've mentioned several times about the AHC thing but seriously, I've never heard of a guy on a staff having an Assistant HC title that didn't also coach a position somewhere on the team. Would seem to just be a waste of a staff position if he was only the AHC.

It's not ideal- no doubt about it. But I think part of the reason you don't see it a lot (or at all) is because of the fact that teams are only allowed nine coaches on staff. I am definitely banking on a 10th assistant being added in April with that scenario. I'm not sure how other teams are going to use that spot typically but I have heard the thought that teams are going to use that spot for a recruiter- like a Barney Farrar type. Essentially if we hire an o-line coach that is the "recruiter" who can maybe also coach as well and move Hevesy to another position where he wouldn't have to recruit- it wouldn't be that much different although non-traditional.

And I don't necessarily see Hevesy not coaching- I think he would jump in anyway. I foresee it being a deal where he is the AHC/Running Game Coordinator which would maybe entail coaching the o-line some and maybe the TE's some. Which I think is where his value is anyway. The caveat is he wouldn't have to recruit- which he allegedly hates doing anyway so I don't think he would have much of a problem with that. The o-line coach would do the recruiting and would be the one the recruits contact and he also does the brunt of the talent evaluation. Dan would get to keep his friend and we would hopefully get an even better o-line which in theory should yield even better production than the already record breaking offensive production we've been getting right now.

If they don't add a 10th assistant, we could certainly move him to TE's like Florida did and then if the legislation passes, add Peterson to the staff at that point. The other option is to make Hevesy an analyst.

There are several solutions that would probably work.

I know I'm probably reading too much into this, but Dan has mentioned possibly coaching the QB's and T-Buck coaching the DB's with Tony Grantham replacing Linguist. That means we still have one staff position (Brian Johnson) open even before a 10th assistant is voted on. We'll see what Dan does after NSD. I'm sure Hevesy will stay where he is but it's interesting none the less.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Seems like it would be reasonable to tone down the anti-Hev narrative until NSD

I see it the opposite, if we fired/reassign him we likely pick up some interest from OL prospects because it looks like we give a shit.

[1bigdawg]

Our best hope is that he leaves for another job. He was a finalist for OL coach at USC last year. Maybe this is our year.

[Dawg61]

Our best hope is that he leaves for another job. He was a finalist for OL coach at USC last year. Maybe this is our year.

Yea till they google his name and 450,972 threads from ED pop up trashing him

[1bigdawg]

Yea till they google his name and 450,972 threads from ED pop up trashing him

But Hev can always call you to get the positive statistics to sell his case.

[Dawg61]

But Hev can always call you to get the positive statistics to sell his case.

Welcome to the Hevesy Butthurt Clan you are member #6 I believe.

[BB30]

we won 5 games this year- and will be predicted to win finish 6th or 7th in the SEC in 2017.

We just expect him to recruit better on the OL. 1 player recruited by Mullen/Hev has made an NFL roster. 1

And the difference in being picked 6th or 7th in the SEC this year is any different from the last 8 years? Our OL was not our biggest problem by any stretch of the imagination this past year. Everyone keeps talking about LSU and Bama. They have great defenses year in and year out. We allowed bama to score 51 this year and we allowed an LSU offense that was absolutely atrocious to score 23 most of those came in the 1st half and we dug a hole. Everyone loves Jackie but forgets that our Defense won most of those big games not our OL or offense.

We will never have a truly elite OL we will continue to mask that with a dual threat QB. And as for expectations anyone thinking we can be a program that contends for the SEC year in and year out have lost their minds. It will take years of winning 7-10 games a season before we change perception enough to become a consistent contender. Rome was not built in a day. If we can find a way to win 6-8 games every 2-3 years and contend for the sec every 3-4 years that is a heck of an improvement from where we have been historically.

[msstate7]

Delete

[DancingRabbit]

I see it the opposite, if we fired/reassign him we likely pick up some interest from OL prospects because it looks like we give a shit.

I didn't say that Dan shouldn't fire or reassign Hev.

[Dawg61]

Only two of Bama's opponents game up less sacks than MSU vs them
Only two of Bama's opponents had more rushing yards than MSU vs them
Only three of Bama's opponents had more total yards than MSU vs them

Bama scored 51 points vs us. The two biggest problems with our team this year was our defense (ranked 110th) and our field goal kicker not our offensive line.

[lamont]

And the difference in being picked 6th or 7th in the SEC this year is any different from the last 8 years? Our OL was not our biggest problem by any stretch of the imagination this past year. Everyone keeps talking about LSU and Bama. They have great defenses year in and year out. We allowed bama to score 51 this year and we allowed an LSU offense that was absolutely atrocious to score 23 most of those came in the 1st half and we dug a hole. Everyone loves Jackie but forgets that our Defense won most of those big games not our OL or offense.

We will never have a truly elite OL we will continue to mask that with a dual threat QB. And as for expectations anyone thinking we can be a program that contends for the SEC year in and year out have lost their minds. It will take years of winning 7-10 games a season before we change perception enough to become a consistent contender. Rome was not built in a day. If we can find a way to win 6-8 games every 2-3 years and contend for the sec every 3-4 years that is a heck of an improvement from where we have been historically.

We have only been picked to finish last in 2009, 2015, and 2016. In 2014- we were picked 4th and considered the dark horse of the West by many The media has actually had decent pulse on us.

We recruit 5 star guys on the DL
We pull in 4-star LB's regularly
We pull 4-star RB's with ease
We recruit well at QB
We keep putting DB's in the NFL
WR recruiting has been spotty

OL recruiting however- hasn't been to the level of the other position groups. That simply can't be denied. Mullen averages 9 points per game vs Bama- NINE after 8 games.

Nobody is saying we can compete for SEC year in and year out. What we are saying is that we will never contend for the SEC until our OL recruiting gets better.

[Dawg61]

OL recruiting however- hasn't been to the level of the other position groups. That simply can't be denied. Mullen averages 9 points per game vs Bama- NINE after 8 games.

Nobody is saying we can compete for SEC year in and year out. What we are saying is that we will never contend for the SEC until our OL recruiting gets better.

True our OL recruiting has been subpar when you trust the recruiting rankings but OL recruiting rankings have also been proven to be the least accurate predictions for any position. Mullen doesn't recruit by recruiting rankings or P5 offers. We aren't Old Misses only looking at a players ESPN ranking.

[HoopsDawg]

We have only been picked to finish last in 2009, 2015, and 2016. In 2014- we were picked 4th and considered the dark horse of the West by many The media has actually had decent pulse on us.

We recruit 5 star guys on the DL
We pull in 4-star LB's regularly
We pull 4-star RB's with ease
We recruit well at QB
We keep putting DB's in the NFL
WR recruiting has been spotty

OL recruiting however- hasn't been to the level of the other position groups. That simply can't be denied. Mullen averages 9 points per game vs Bama- NINE after 8 games.

Nobody is saying we can compete for SEC year in and year out. What we are saying is that we will never contend for the SEC until our OL recruiting gets better.

All of that plus every recruiting cycle all these names pop up and we just keep missing. we end up reaching for guys at the end with no other power 5 offers. of course some pan out, b/c you have to play 5 linemen.

[HoopsDawg]

True our OL recruiting has been subpar when you trust the recruiting rankings but OL recruiting rankings have also been proven to be the least accurate predictions for any position. Mullen doesn't recruit by recruiting rankings or P5 offers. We aren't Old Misses only looking at a players ESPN ranking.

LOL, it's not the recruiting rankings. It's the guys WE target that WE miss on.

[maroonmania]

LOL, it's not the recruiting rankings. It's the guys WE target that WE miss on.

Exactly, we get our share and more of the top players in MS at every other position besides OL. Nobody is expecting us to have an elite OL, just recruit the OL position comparable to what we recruit at for other positions.

[msstate7]

Just curious... which position groups outperformed the oline this year? Certainly not dline or lb where we seem to recruit the best. Now if what I said is true, doesn't that tell you coaching is pretty important?

[Dawg61]

LOL, it's not the recruiting rankings. It's the guys WE target that WE miss on.


Exactly, we get our share and more of the top players in MS at every other position besides OL. Nobody is expecting us to have an elite OL, just recruit the OL position comparable to what we recruit at for other positions.

We could land every single target ever for OL and the Hevesy Clan would still bitch. Let's get us a Tunsil and a bong video during the NFL draft and we too can be just like Old Misses recruiting stars and shit.

[BankerDog]

Not excusing it, and I did call Tucker to us due to a friend in the Roswell community. But when are we going to start a new thread when Gonzo whiffs? He's whiffed on Guridy, Racey, Bowie, the kid last year that went to Oklahoma, etc. if you're going to hold one guy accountable; hold them all accountable. When is the last time a MSU WR has been drafted? I don't believe any have under the Mullen Era..

[Dawg61]

Prepare thy anus this thread is going 20+ pages

Fire Hevesy Fire Hevesy Fire Hevesy!!!!!

https://giant.gfycat.com/HideousGloriousIberianmole.gif

[maroonmania]

Just curious... which position groups outperformed the oline this year? Certainly not dline or lb where we seem to recruit the best. Now if what I said is true, doesn't that tell you coaching is pretty important?

Well, nobody is denying that our defense looked incompetent and poorly coached for the entire year, hence the joy with Sirmon leaving. But the best players on our defense this year were very young. Now while our OL did look pretty good the last half of the 2016 season, in 2015 the OL was the worst performing unit on the team. I do think Hevesy generally gets about all he can with what he has to work with for the most part. That's why we perform best with a veteran OL like 2014 but it will not be that many years that your entire OL will be made up of 3 year starters.

[HoopsDawg]

We could land every single target ever for OL and the Hevesy Clan would still bitch. Let's get us a Tunsil and a bong video during the NFL draft and we too can be just like Old Misses recruiting stars and shit.

The reason people complain about Hev is b/c we rarely get ANY target. We've signed about 3 high priority O-linemen in his 8 years. Ok, now I'm done arguing with ONE guy.

[msstate7]

Well, nobody is denying that our defense looked incompetent and poorly coached for the entire year, hence the joy with Sirmon leaving. But the best players on our defense this year were very young. Now while our OL did look pretty good the last half of the 2016 season, in 2015 the OL was the worst performing unit on the team. I do think Hevesy generally gets about all he can with what he has to work with for the most part. That's why we perform best with a veteran OL like 2014 but it will not be that many years that your entire OL will be made up of 3 year starters.

I think pretty much everyone agrees that Hev can coach, he needs to recruit better, and Mullen isn't firing him. If this is true, we should get creative to help Hev out recruiting wise. For example, name brad Peterson TE and assistant oline coach. Hev still be in charge of the whole oline, but adding Peterson in the mix could help sell us to recruits. I don't really understand how practice and meetings run though, so this could be a dumb idea.

[Dawg61]

The reason people complain about Hev is b/c we rarely get ANY target. We've signed about 3 high priority O-linemen in his 8 years. Ok, now I'm done arguing with ONE guy.

And yet we still have set our 8 best offensive seasons ever in the 8 seasons Mullen & Hevesy have been coaching here. Did y'all forget how awful our offense was with Croom? Remember that time we lost to Auburn 3-2? If our defense was ranked as well as our offense every year we would be an annual top 15 program.

[dawgday166]

We could land every single target ever for OL and the Hevesy Clan would still bitch. Let's get us a Tunsil and a bong video during the NFL draft and we too can be just like Old Misses recruiting stars and shit.

Tunsil was just AFC East Rookie of the year.

[msstate7]

Tunsil was just AFC East Rookie of the year.

AFC east rookie of the year? What the heck is that? Do they go all the way down to the practice squad rookie of the year?

[dawgday166]

And yet we still have set our 8 best offensive seasons ever in the 8 seasons Mullen & Hevesy have been coaching here. Did y'all forget how awful our offense was with Croom? Remember that time we lost to Auburn 3-2? If our defense was ranked as well as our offense every year we would be an annual top 15 program.

Is that saying that much? As I have researched and previously posted, look at out national offensive rankings THEN look at our scores each year. Outside of 2014, our offense has been ranked 31 once and 40s and below the other seasons, with 1 in the 60s and 2 in the 80s. Look at total O, scoring O, 3rd down conversions, and red zone efficiency.

Yet our defensive rankings generally are better than that if I recall correctly, but they always get blamed for our losing games. Even in 14 when our D gave up a lot of garbage yards late in games when we were up big in and had a poor total D ranking, they were #1 I believe in red zone efficiency and 23 in scoring D.

Everyone conveniently forgets when our offense scores 17 or less with some 3, 10, or 14 point games along the way. We scored only 17 in '15 against a horrible AU team, and couldn't run the ball a lick.

ETA: The reason Mullen OWNS the MSU offensive record book is cause there wasn't one before he got here. We've never had much of an offense before. Serviceable at times ... but not record setting evah.

[dawgday166]

AFC east rookie of the year? What the heck is that? Do they go all the way down to the practice squad rookie of the year?

LOL ... I didn't know it existed either. Not sure how I ran across it, maybe on cbs sports when I was perusing NFL news or something. But still, not a bad award for an OLineman to get.

Tunsil's gonna be good if he can stay away from drugs and women.

[Dawg61]

Tunsil's gonna be good if he can stay away from drugs and women.

In Miami? Hahahahahahah that's like asking Renardo Sidney to stay away from the mash potatoes and fried chicken when you leave him in Barnhills for a decade.

[dawgday166]

In Miami? Hahahahahahah that's like asking Renardo Sidney to stay away from the mash potatoes and fried chicken when you leave him in Barnhills for a decade.

Maybe not haha. We'll see. He has the talent tho. He ain't a Treadwell.

[Cooterpoot]

Tunsil was just AFC East Rookie of the year.

That's a made up ESPN award. The NFL just put him on the all rookie team.

[dawgday166]

That's a made up ESPN award. The NFL just put him on the all rookie team.

That's probably where I saw it, although I don't go to ESPN that much anymore.

ESPN loves them some OM now. Not sure why ... maybe there are some OM Lawyers who are executives or higher ups there.

[smootness]

Is that saying that much? As I have researched and previously posted, look at out national offensive rankings THEN look at our scores each year. Outside of 2014, our offense has been ranked 31 once and 40s and below the other seasons, with 1 in the 60s and 2 in the 80s. Look at total O, scoring O, 3rd down conversions, and red zone efficiency.

Yet our defensive rankings generally are better than that if I recall correctly, but they always get blamed for our losing games. Even in 14 when our D gave up a lot of garbage yards late in games when we were up big in and had a poor total D ranking, they were #1 I believe in red zone efficiency and 23 in scoring D.

Everyone conveniently forgets when our offense scores 17 or less with some 3, 10, or 14 point games along the way. We scored only 17 in '15 against a horrible AU team, and couldn't run the ball a lick.

ETA: The reason Mullen OWNS the MSU offensive record book is cause there wasn't one before he got here. We've never had much of an offense before. Serviceable at times ... but not record setting evah.

The SEC has always been a more defensive-oriented conference, you know this. This year, for example, we were 56th in the country in PPG offensively. But that was good enough for 6th in the SEC. So we were a slightly better-than-average SEC offense despite our struggles there.

[dawgday166]

The SEC has always been a more defensive-oriented conference, you know this. This year, for example, we were 56th in the country in PPG offensively. But that was good enough for 6th in the SEC. So we were a slightly better-than-average SEC offense despite our struggles there.

Sorry but with Dan Mullen as our OC I kinda expect to be in top 3 - 4 every year. When looking at the rankings on a year by year basis, check out OM. They beat us in the rankings more times than not if I recall correctly. That surprised me a good bit..

[msstate7]

Sorry but with Dan Mullen as our OC I kinda expect to be in top 3 - 4 every year. When looking at the rankings on a year by year basis, check out OM. They beat us in the rankings more times than not if I recall correctly. That surprised me a good bit..

Kinda deceiving... om is much faster paced so they get more plays. Since freeze got to om, we've led in yards per play 3 out of 5 times.

[dawgday166]

Kinda deceiving... om is much faster paced so they get more plays. Since freeze got to om, we've led in yards per play 3 out of 5 times.

Ok ... I'll buy that.

[Commercecomet24]

AFC east rookie of the year? What the heck is that? Do they go all the way down to the practice squad rookie of the year?

It's not a real award. It was espn AFC East blog writers voting.