Howland

[Dawg61]

When is Howland going to get pissed off and start actually coaching these players? I have yet to see him yell or raise his voice in anger once since he arrived. Take off the kid gloves and stop walking on eggshells. Howland trying to be nice and on his best behavior all the time is what's wrong with this team right now. I don't want nice Howland. I want pissed off Howland. Haven't seen that guy once. Has he had a single technical foul called on himself since arriving? Just having to ask that means it's a PROBLEM. Kentucky wouldn't have nearly the same success with all their freshman every year if Calipari was scared to light their asses up and scared to yell at the 17ing refs. There is such a thing as being too nice.

I'll posted this on SPS but I think it's an interesting topic so I'll post it here too.

[smootness]

Oh gosh.

[msstate7]

"...There was criticism about his perceived tight-fisted control, in games and with the team and staff. There were concerns about the number of players who transferred, though only a few found success elsewhere: Drew Gordon (New Mexico), Mike Moser (Nevada Las Vegas), Chace Stanback (UNLV) and Matt Carlino (Brigham Young)...."

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/25/sports/la-sp-ucla-howland-fired-20130325

Article about howland being fired at ucla.

Did that make howland softer?

[Ari Gold]

When is Howland going to get pissed off and start actually coaching these players? I have yet to see him yell or raise his voice in anger once since he arrived. Take off the kid gloves and stop walking on eggshells. Howland trying to be nice and on his best behavior all the time is what's wrong with this team right now. I don't want nice Howland. I want pissed off Howland. Haven't seen that guy once. Has he had a single technical foul called on himself since arriving? Just having to ask that means it's a PROBLEM. Kentucky wouldn't have nearly the same success with all their freshman every year if Calipari was scared to light their asses up and scared to yell at the 17ing refs. There is such a thing as being too nice.

I'll posted this on SPS but I think it's an interesting topic so I'll post it here too.

Bit of advice...Next time just leave it over there.

[msstate7]

Howland doesn't get on players in-game like at ucla. I don't know if that anything to do with our performance, but it's true

[Dawg61]

"...There was criticism about his perceived tight-fisted control, in games and with the team and staff. There were concerns about the number of players who transferred, though only a few found success elsewhere: Drew Gordon (New Mexico), Mike Moser (Nevada Las Vegas), Chace Stanback (UNLV) and Matt Carlino (Brigham Young)...."

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/25/sports/la-sp-ucla-howland-fired-20130325

Article about howland being fired at ucla.

Did that make howland softer?

Absolutely he is softer. He is still burnt from being fired and he's walking on eggshells still from it. He hasn't gotten a technical foul once. Have you ever seen him yelling at a player when they are ****ing up? Calipari is all over his freshman from the time they get there to the time they leave and they all love him for it. He makes them better players because of it. Howland isn't doing that at all so they aren't growing and learning as well as they should be.

[ShotgunDawg]

When is Howland going to get pissed off and start actually coaching these players? I have yet to see him yell or raise his voice in anger once since he arrived. Take off the kid gloves and stop walking on eggshells. Howland trying to be nice and on his best behavior all the time is what's wrong with this team right now. I don't want nice Howland. I want pissed off Howland. Haven't seen that guy once. Has he had a single technical foul called on himself since arriving? Just having to ask that means it's a PROBLEM. Kentucky wouldn't have nearly the same success with all their freshman every year if Calipari was scared to light their asses up and scared to yell at the 17ing refs. There is such a thing as being too nice.

I'll posted this on SPS but I think it's an interesting topic so I'll post it here too.

I find it interesting how people correlate yelling & being pissed off with successful coaching.

[HoopsDawg]

Absolutely he is softer. He is still burnt from being fired and he's walking on eggshells still from it. He hasn't gotten a technical foul once. Have you ever seen him yelling at a player when they are ****ing up? Calipari is all over his freshman from the time they get there to the time they leave and they all love him for it. He makes them better players because of it. Howland isn't doing that at all so they aren't growing and learning as well as they should be.

They had him mic'ed up last night. I thought he was doing an excellent job of pointing out mistakes without putting his player down. He was very positive and instructional. Seems like the kind of coach you would want to play for. You are barking up the tree 61. We are the youngest team in college basketball. I know everyone wants it now, but it takes time.

[HSVDawg]

Yeah, Calipari being a hardass to his players is the key to his success. Has nothing to do with the 5 lottery picks he has on the court every year.

[Cooterpoot]

Howland inherited a turd. A big, long, gas station type turd. Next year will be slightly better but we're still going to be short some low post guys. Defensive effort sucks but I hope that's just a young team.

[HoopsDawg]

Howland inherited a turd. A big, long, gas station type turd. Next year will be slightly better but we're still going to be short some low post guys. Defensive effort sucks but I hope that's just a young team.

Yep, and next year, 2 of our best players will be PG's in Nick and Peters. I know we will play them together a lot, but that's not ideal to have 2 guys around 6'0 in your backcourt.

[msbulldog]

Tell it HSV!

[Dawg61]

You are barking up the tree 61.

We are basically copying the Kentucky model on recruiting right now but we ain't coaching like Kentucky. How many technical fouls you think Calipari has gotten since showing up in Lexington? 50+? How many technical fouls has Howland gotten since showing up in Starkville? Zero. That's a problem dude. I hate asshole coaches like the dickhead at USCe but I respect the hell outta coaches like Calipari who get on players asses to force them to become better players. Nobody sets records in weight lifting with a nice spotter.

[JoseBrown]

Bit of advice...Next time just leave it over there.

No kidding.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

We are basically copying the Kentucky model on recruiting right now but we ain't coaching like Kentucky.

This is where our fanbase is messing up. We're not recruiting like Kentucky. He ended up a top 10 class because we signed 6 4* kids which is a huge class. The # of quality players put us up there. Kentucky & Duke sign 4 or 5 kids that all are in the Top 20 in the country. We signed 0. We have 0 1 & done kid & not likely to have a 2 & done although 1 or 2 are possible with huge jumps. That #5-8 ranking has warped some of you guys mind. We signed a bunch of guys who can/will be very good basketball players. We didn't sign any elite basketball players like Kentucky (they signed 3 elite guys). Nick is the closest thing to that & he couldn't even get a Kentucky offer so think about that.

[msstate7]

This is where our fanbase is messing up. We're not recruiting like Kentucky. He ended up a top 10 class because we signed 6 4* kids which is a huge class. The # of quality players put us up there. Kentucky & Duke sign 4 or 5 kids that all are in the Top 20 in the country. We signed 0. We have 0 1 & done kid & not likely to have a 2 & done although 1 or 2 are possible with huge jumps. That #5-8 ranking has warped some of you guys mind. We signed a bunch of guys who can/will be very good basketball players. We didn't sign any elite basketball players like Kentucky (they signed 3 elite guys). Nick is the closest thing to that & he couldn't even get a Kentucky offer so think about that.

Malik did last season, right?

[ShotgunDawg]

This is where our fanbase is messing up. We're not recruiting like Kentucky. He ended up a top 10 class because we signed 6 4* kids which is a huge class. The # of quality players put us up there. Kentucky & Duke sign 4 or 5 kids that all are in the Top 20 in the country. We signed 0. We have 0 1 & done kid & not likely to have a 2 & done although 1 or 2 are possible with huge jumps. That #5-8 ranking has warped some of you guys mind. We signed a bunch of guys who can/will be very good basketball players. We didn't sign any elite basketball players like Kentucky (they signed 3 elite guys). Nick is the closest thing to that & he couldn't even get a Kentucky offer so think about that.

Agree. Everyone wants to relate basketball recruiting to football recruiting, but the elite basketball talent pool is far far smaller.

If you think about the NBA draft. Think about the difference between the first 3 overall picks & the 10th overall pick. Usually there is light years difference.

However, in the NFL, you can land Dak Prescott & Tom Brady after 3rd round.

There's no comparison. The basketball talent pool is extremely shallow. The different between a top 3 class & a 4-10 class is the Grand Canyon

[msstate7]

Agree. Everyone wants to relate basketball recruiting to football recruiting, but the elite basketball talent pool is far far smaller.

If you think about the NBA draft. Think about the difference between the first 3 overall picks & the 10th overall pick. Usually there is light years difference.

However, in the NFL, you can land Dak Prescott & Tom Brady after 3rd round.

There's no comparison. The basketball talent pool is extremely shallow. The different between a top 3 class & a 4-10 class is the Grand Canyon

Villanova recruiting rankings...
'12 = 30th
'13 = 46th
'14 = 32nd
'15 = 30th

Our football program outrecruited Villanova... you still stand by your post?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Malik did last season, right?

Yes Malik was an elite recruit on paper.

To take it a step further a comparison between Kentucky & MSU class last year

Kentucky

6 De'Aaron Fox
9 Bam Adebayo
11 Malik Monk
14 Wenyen Gabriel
24 Sacha Kelleya-Jones

MSU
47 Schnider Herard
52 Mario Kegler
80 Eli Wright
96 Lamar Peters
97 Tyson Carter
119 Abdul Ado
290 EJ Datcher

So yes while we had 5 Top 100 prospects in the class Kentucky had 5 Top 25 prospects.

[Gutter Cobreh]

We are basically copying the Kentucky model on recruiting right now but we ain't coaching like Kentucky. How many technical fouls you think Calipari has gotten since showing up in Lexington? 50+? How many technical fouls has Howland gotten since showing up in Starkville? Zero. That's a problem dude. I hate asshole coaches like the dickhead at USCe but I respect the hell outta coaches like Calipari who get on players asses to force them to become better players. Nobody sets records in weight lifting with a nice spotter.

Is there one thing regarding MS State athletics that you do actually like? You seem to rant quite a bit, so just curious as to why even invest energy into something that obviously brings you down....

I don't care if Howland speaks to the team in Spanish. This is a pointless thread.

[gtowndawg]

Villanova recruiting rankings...
'12 = 30th
'13 = 46th
'14 = 32nd
'15 = 30th

Our football program outrecruited Villanova... you still stand by your post?

I have to admit that surprises me.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

The different between a top 3 class & a 4-10 class is the Grand Canyon

You can really say Top 2 & everyone else. Duke & Kentucky are recruiting at a different level than anyone else.

[Liverpooldawg]

When is Howland going to get pissed off and start actually coaching these players? I have yet to see him yell or raise his voice in anger once since he arrived. Take off the kid gloves and stop walking on eggshells. Howland trying to be nice and on his best behavior all the time is what's wrong with this team right now. I don't want nice Howland. I want pissed off Howland. Haven't seen that guy once. Has he had a single technical foul called on himself since arriving? Just having to ask that means it's a PROBLEM. Kentucky wouldn't have nearly the same success with all their freshman every year if Calipari was scared to light their asses up and scared to yell at the 17ing refs. There is such a thing as being too nice.

I'll posted this on SPS but I think it's an interesting topic so I'll post it here too.
Unreal

[MCsMGs]

I find it interesting how people correlate yelling & being pissed off with successful coaching.


Me too...

[Dawg61]

This is where our fanbase is messing up. We're not recruiting like Kentucky. He ended up a top 10 class because we signed 6 4* kids which is a huge class. The # of quality players put us up there. Kentucky & Duke sign 4 or 5 kids that all are in the Top 20 in the country. We signed 0. We have 0 1 & done kid & not likely to have a 2 & done although 1 or 2 are possible with huge jumps. That #5-8 ranking has warped some of you guys mind. We signed a bunch of guys who can/will be very good basketball players. We didn't sign any elite basketball players like Kentucky (they signed 3 elite guys). Nick is the closest thing to that & he couldn't even get a Kentucky offer so think about that.

Ok and you're completely glossing over my point of this thread. Howland is recruiting like Wisconsin (you like that better?) but he's coaching like he's the head coach of the Snowflake Sisters University. I am shocked he doesn't include "pretty please with a cherry on top" everytime he asks a player to do something.

[Liverpooldawg]

We are basically copying the Kentucky model on recruiting right now but we ain't coaching like Kentucky. How many technical fouls you think Calipari has gotten since showing up in Lexington? 50+? How many technical fouls has Howland gotten since showing up in Starkville? Zero. That's a problem dude. I hate asshole coaches like the dickhead at USCe but I respect the hell outta coaches like Calipari who get on players asses to force them to become better players. Nobody sets records in weight lifting with a nice spotter.
The Kentucky model in recruiting? Ugh, no. We ain't even close to that level.

[Liverpooldawg]

Ok and you're completely glossing over my point of this thread. Howland is recruiting like Wisconsin (you like that better?) but he's coaching like he's the head coach of the Snowflake Sisters University. I am shocked he doesn't include "pretty please with a cherry on top" everytime he asks a player to do something.

So yelling and getting pissed off makes a good coach?

[Dawg61]

Is there one thing regarding MS State athletics that you do actually like? You seem to rant quite a bit, so just curious as to why even invest energy into something that obviously brings you down....

I don't care if Howland speaks to the team in Spanish. This is a pointless thread.

I throw out compliments all the time in game threads. Post in one once in your life and you'll see. What should be troubling for you is that you only notice my negative posts. Hope you don't live your life only noticing the negative in everything else too. That would suck.

[ShotgunDawg]

Villanova recruiting rankings...
'12 = 30th
'13 = 46th
'14 = 32nd
'15 = 30th

Our football program outrecruited Villanova... you still stand by your post?

Interesting. That's surprising.

Maybe there is a Stanford or Butler quality to them.

I do know that kids from that part of the country frequently have higher basketball IQs, but that doesn't explain why Villanova is really good while other schools in that area aren't so good.

[Dawg61]

but that doesn't explain why Villanova is really good while other schools in that area aren't so good.

Philadelphia is 94 miles from NYC which is the center of the Big East Conference. Big East basketball has been excellent in basketball for a long time. Ever heard of it?

[preachermatt83]

Smh

[HSVDawg]

Villanova recruiting rankings...
'12 = 30th
'13 = 46th
'14 = 32nd
'15 = 30th

Our football program outrecruited Villanova... you still stand by your post?

I'll stand by his post. NCAA basketball isn't like football. The great thing about it is the most talented team often does not win it all or even play for it all. Villanova got hot and went on a run last year, kudos to them. They still weren't even close to as talented as UK, Duke, or several others. And the NBA draft bears that out too. Villanova had ZERO players drafted off their championship team in 2016 and just one (Josh Hart) projected to get picked in 2017, and he is a 2nd rounder according to most services. Same with Butler a few years back although they had Gordon Heyward, and George Mason before them.

[smootness]

We are basically copying the Kentucky model on recruiting right now but we ain't coaching like Kentucky. How many technical fouls you think Calipari has gotten since showing up in Lexington? 50+? How many technical fouls has Howland gotten since showing up in Starkville? Zero. That's a problem dude. I hate asshole coaches like the dickhead at USCe but I respect the hell outta coaches like Calipari who get on players asses to force them to become better players. Nobody sets records in weight lifting with a nice spotter.

We are absolutely not following the Kentucky model of recruiting. Why do people think this?

[BrunswickDawg]

Comparisons to anyone at this point are almost ridiculous. The reality is there are 2 type of successful teams in CBB today
1) KY & Duke loaded with 1 and done type talent
2) Teams deep in SR/Jr talent that has had time to gel and learn the game beyond AAU ball.

We are in the middle - All Fr and SO who have talent but haven't learned the game beyond AAU ball. We have 1 SR & 1 Jr on our roster. That is not a recipe for success in CBB today.

People who thought this was a 1-2 year rebuilt of a program that today's players have never seen ranked in the Top 25 were fooling themselves.

[smootness]

Ok and you're completely glossing over my point of this thread. Howland is recruiting like Wisconsin (you like that better?) but he's coaching like he's the head coach of the Snowflake Sisters University. I am shocked he doesn't include "pretty please with a cherry on top" everytime he asks a player to do something.

You ever seen Brad Stevens coach? Greg Poppovich? Phil Jackson? Jay Wright? Heck, even Coach K most of the time?

[Dawg61]

We are absolutely not following the Kentucky model of recruiting. Why do people think this?

omfg how many more times y'all gonna say this? We recruit like Auburn yet we coach like Mississippi University for Women. You like that better? The Kentucky part I want us to copy is the head coach getting on his players and FORCING them to become better. They all sign up for that and they all love it. Calipari has made many millions for many players many times over by doing and being that type of coach. Not by being a coach that has zero technicals in two years. Howland isn't coaching like the guy we all thought we were getting right now. He is being too reserved and too nice. We don't need or want the most likable head coach ever.

[smootness]

omfg how many more times y'all gonna say this? We recruit like Auburn yet we coach like Mississippi University for Women. You like that better? The Kentucky part I want us to copy is the head coach getting on his players and FORCING them to become better. They all sign up for that and they all love it. Calipari has made many millions for many players many times over by doing and being that type of coach. Not by being a coach that has zero technicals in two years. Howland isn't coaching like the guy we all thought we were getting right now. He is being too reserved and too nice. We don't need or want the most likable head coach ever.

I'll say it as long as people like you think it's true. Because it isn't.

Calipari is a decent coach, nothing more. I don't care how much his players say they love playing for him, there are multiple ways to approach coaching.

But I'm not that shocked that your analysis of our basketball team doesn't go much further than 'Our coach needs to yell more'. Howland has never been a drill sergeant, and I'm not sure why people think that's who he is. This is who he's always been as a coach. Heck, some of the criticism from his time at UCLA was that he wasn't tough enough on certain players.

[Gutter Cobreh]

I throw out compliments all the time in game threads. Post in one once in your life and you'll see. What should be troubling for you is that you only notice my negative posts. Hope you don't live your life only noticing the negative in everything else too. That would suck.

So I ask a question, to which you respond with an insult. Seems about right...

You started a thread about the fact that the basketball coach isn't ripping the guys a new one, thus he isn't a good fit to run the program. He MUST act like Calipari to be successful and anything less will cause us to lose basketball games. The entire premise of your argument is illogical.

Also, that is probably why I miss your comments in game threads. I choose not to read game threads as some go WAY past the reservation during games and become way too emotional. I suffer from the same problem, so I choose instead to try and avoid them while the game is being played.

[DudyDawg]

omfg how many more times y'all gonna say this? We recruit like Auburn yet we coach like Mississippi University for Women. You like that better? The Kentucky part I want us to copy is the head coach getting on his players and FORCING them to become better. They all sign up for that and they all love it. Calipari has made many millions for many players many times over by doing and being that type of coach. Not by being a coach that has zero technicals in two years. Howland isn't coaching like the guy we all thought we were getting right now. He is being too reserved and too nice. We don't need or want the most likable head coach ever.

Has nothing to do with Cal yelling. A lot of them would be making millions at 18 if they didn't have to go to school for a year. We have 0 players of that quality.

[HoopsDawg]

Ok and you're completely glossing over my point of this thread. Howland is recruiting like Wisconsin (you like that better?) but he's coaching like he's the head coach of the Snowflake Sisters University. I am shocked he doesn't include "pretty please with a cherry on top" everytime he asks a player to do something.

Ugh, UK has 3 of the projected Top 14 draft picks in the upcoming NBA draft. My mother-in-law could coach that team.

[tireddawg]

omfg how many more times y'all gonna say this? We recruit like Auburn yet we coach like Mississippi University for Women. You like that better? The Kentucky part I want us to copy is the head coach getting on his players and FORCING them to become better. They all sign up for that and they all love it. Calipari has made many millions for many players many times over by doing and being that type of coach. Not by being a coach that has zero technicals in two years. Howland isn't coaching like the guy we all thought we were getting right now. He is being too reserved and too nice. We don't need or want the most likable head coach ever.

It bothers you that folks disagree with an absurd comment you made? Go figure...

[Dawg61]

My mother-in-law could coach that team.

She's probably not afraid to get in their faces when they are being lazy stupid freshman either so Howland could learn something from her.

[HSVDawg]

Ugh, UK has 3 of the projected Top 14 draft picks in the upcoming NBA draft. My mother-in-law could coach that team.

Yep. Calipari is one of the biggest underachieving coaches in college basketball history. He has a legitimate NBA roster every year. Should easily have 5+ titles at this point. Just a terrible example all the way around.

[Dawg61]

It bothers you that folks disagree with an absurd comment you made? Go figure...


Ugh, UK has 3 of the projected Top 14 draft picks in the upcoming NBA draft. My mother-in-law could coach that team.


Has nothing to do with Cal yelling. A lot of them would be making millions at 18 if they didn't have to go to school for a year. We have 0 players of that quality.


So I ask a question, to which you respond with an insult. Seems about right...

You started a thread about the fact that the basketball coach isn't ripping the guys a new one, thus he isn't a good fit to run the program. He MUST act like Calipari to be successful and anything less will cause us to lose basketball games. The entire premise of your argument is illogical.

Also, that is probably why I miss your comments in game threads. I choose not to read game threads as some go WAY past the reservation during games and become way too emotional. I suffer from the same problem, so I choose instead to try and avoid them while the game is being played.


I'll say it as long as people like you think it's true. Because it isn't.

Calipari is a decent coach, nothing more. I don't care how much his players say they love playing for him, there are multiple ways to approach coaching.

But I'm not that shocked that your analysis of our basketball team doesn't go much further than 'Our coach needs to yell more'. Howland has never been a drill sergeant, and I'm not sure why people think that's who he is. This is who he's always been as a coach. Heck, some of the criticism from his time at UCLA was that he wasn't tough enough on certain players.


We are absolutely not following the Kentucky model of recruiting. Why do people think this?

We are YOUNG like KENTUCKY. Calipari gets on his YOUNG players and FORCES them to be the best they can be. Howland isn't doing that at all.

[MarketingBully]

The problem is we have one senior who is average to below average at the most improtant position, we have six to seven freshmen who play like freshmen, and we depend on a player who is a true sophomore himself who is still learning quite a bit as he goes. We start three players out of position out of necessity this year. We have players that don't listen to Howland's coaching because they are freshmen and have to experience things before they get it. Kentucky lost to Louisville because they didn't listen to Coach Cal. It happens. It's called youth.

If you guys don't see the talent on this team, I don't know what to tell you. If you don't think that adding Ado, Brooks, Feazel, and replacing IJ Ready with Nick Weatherspoon with the jumps all of these freshmen will take makes us a tournament team next year, you don't know basketball. The reason mid-majors do well and Villanova won the national championship is because they have veteran junior senior laden teams. We just have to be patient with this team because we are extemely young. Shit, we are the youngest team in the country. When we played our game were patient on offense and got back in transition, we outscored Alabama 17-3 to start both halves. We didn't play with the intensity you need for forty minutes to win the game. That comes with experience which we have very little.

[DudyDawg]

We are YOUNG like KENTUCKY. Calipari gets on his YOUNG players and FORCES them to be the best they can be. Howland isn't doing that at all.

How many practices have you watched? Been in a lot of film sessions? Huddles? You seem to know a lot about how Howland talks to players.

[Dawg61]

How many practices have you watched?

How many times has Howland gotten on the refs to the point of getting a technical since he showed up? You don't light up the refs for that call. You do it for the next call. Same thing applies to YOUNG players. You don't get in their face for the last play you do it for the next one coming up. Howland is doing neither. He doesn't get on the refs and he doesn't get on his players. Can't win that way.

[smootness]

How many times has Howland gotten on the refs to the point of getting a technical since he showed up? You don't light up the refs for that call. You do it for the next call. Same thing applies to YOUNG players. You don't get in their face for the last play you do it for the next one coming up. Howland is doing neither. He doesn't get on the refs and he doesn't get on his players. Can't win that way.

K.

[smootness]

We are YOUNG like KENTUCKY. Calipari gets on his YOUNG players and FORCES them to be the best they can be. Howland isn't doing that at all.

Dude, you're the one who said we're following the Kentucky recruiting model. Either back that up, or admit it's not what you meant.

[Ari Gold]

Last bit of advice for ya Dawg61
When your thread has reached page 3 and no one agrees with you yet, it's time to just cut ur loses and pull the rip cord

[Dawg61]

Dude, you're the one who said we're following the Kentucky recruiting model. Either back that up, or admit it's not what you meant.

What team would you like to describe it as when you bring in 8 freshman? That's what I meant not that we brought in 8 McDonald's All-Americans like Kentucky but that we brought in 8 freshman like Kentucky. I called it the Kentucky recruiting model because that's the closest thing to describe what we have done even though Kentucky still brings in 8 NBA players and we don't. Should I call it the Donnie Tyndall Tennessee plan instead? You're nitpicking a detail that isn't the point of the thread to get the wording perfect for something that can't be described perfectly.

[Dawg61]

Last bit of advice for ya Dawg61
When your thread has reached page 3 and no one agrees with you yet, it's time to just cut ur loses and pull the rip cord

7 agreed with me immediately. He sees it too. Thanks for your advice though.

[Jack Lambert]

I never saw yoda or Obi One get piss.

[msstate7]

Ugh, UK has 3 of the projected Top 14 draft picks in the upcoming NBA draft. My mother-in-law could coach that team.

Calipari took umass to the championship game. We've had 2 big time 5*s in Malik and sidney, yet we couldn't get anything out of them. I think you really slight calipari as a coach

[HoopsDawg]

Calipari took umass to the championship game. We've had 2 big time 5*s in Malik and sidney, yet we couldn't get anything out of them. I think you really slight calipari as a coach

I think you take posts too literally and take stats out of context so we're even.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Calipari took umass to the championship game. We've had 2 big time 5*s in Malik and sidney, yet we couldn't get anything out of them. I think you really slight calipari as a coach

I think Cal is a good coach but he took UMASS to the Final 4 with the best player in the country on his team. He didn't have a bunch of scrubs.

[Dawg61]

I never saw yoda or Obi One get piss.

And I'd argue they weren't the ones that finally turned him into a Jedi

[Jack Lambert]

Calipari took umass to the championship game. We've had 2 big time 5*s in Malik and sidney, yet we couldn't get anything out of them. I think you really slight calipari as a coach

Every school he left was being investigated by the NCAA.

[Dawg61]

I think Cal is a good coach but he took UMASS to the Final 4 with the best player in the country on his team. He didn't have a bunch of scrubs.

He's taken three different schools to the final four. Has anyone else ever done that?

[DudyDawg]

7 agreed with me immediately. He sees it too. Thanks for your advice though.

Who agreed? And who's he?

[HSVDawg]

Calipari took umass to the championship game. We've had 2 big time 5*s in Malik and sidney, yet we couldn't get anything out of them. I think you really slight calipari as a coach

That's because neither of those 5* kids really had 5 star ability. Partially due to attitude and partially due to talent. They don't always live up to the hype. John Wooden himself couldn't get Sidney to the NBA, and while Malik has some tools he is going to peak out as maybe a decent college two guard. He isn't going to sniff the league.

And that is two guys in what, 20 years? We've gotten half as many 5 star players in two decades as UK gets in a single recruiting class. Think about that.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

He's taken three different schools to the final four. Has anyone else ever done that?

Pitino

[smootness]

What team would you like to describe it as when you bring in 8 freshman?

Every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year? SMU brought in a bigger recruiting class than us a few years ago. We went and recruited the best players we could recruit to fill the open spots we had...just like every program in America does.

[Dawg61]

Pitino

Ok a top 5 all-time college coach. Seems like Calipari is in elite company.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Ok a top 5 all-time college coach. Seems like Calipari is in elite company.

I said Cal was a good coach. Was this directed at me or someone else?

[BrunswickDawg]

What team would you like to describe it as when you bring in 8 freshman? That's what I meant not that we brought in 8 McDonald's All-Americans like Kentucky but that we brought in 8 freshman like Kentucky. I called it the Kentucky recruiting model because that's the closest thing to describe what we have done even though Kentucky still brings in 8 NBA players and we don't. Should I call it the Donnie Tyndall Tennessee plan instead? You're nitpicking a detail that isn't the point of the thread to get the wording perfect for something that can't be described perfectly.

So, should Howland have only brought in only 4 freshman like most schools do? Oh, wait, then we wouldn't have a full roster. You hate that too if I remember correctly. Should have left spots for some Sanderson Center All-Stars!!! We have 8 freshman because we cut dead weight and are rebuilding a program.

[smootness]

Calipari took umass to the championship game. We've had 2 big time 5*s in Malik and sidney, yet we couldn't get anything out of them. I think you really slight calipari as a coach

That team also had Marcus Camby and vacated all their wins.

[smootness]

He's taken three different schools to the final four. Has anyone else ever done that?

The guy recruits like mad no matter where he goes. No one has ever disputed that.

[Dawg61]

Every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year? SMU brought in a bigger recruiting class than us a few years ago. We went and recruited the best players we could recruit to fill the open spots we had...just like every program in America does.

Sure just for you smoot we'll call it the "every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year plan" instead of the "Kentucky plan". Seems wordy but you like it better so I am willing to appease you.

[smootness]

Sure just for you smoot we'll call it the "every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year plan" instead of the "Kentucky plan". Seems wordy but you like it better so I am willing to appease you.

Thanks, bro

[Dawg61]

So, should Howland have only brought in only 4 freshman like most schools do? Oh, wait, then we wouldn't have a full roster. You hate that too if I remember correctly. Should have left spots for some Sanderson Center All-Stars!!! We have 8 freshman because we cut dead weight and are rebuilding a program.

No he needs to get on their asses and the refs asses too. That's my point. I like our 8 freshman I just wish Howland brought his sac with him from UCLA instead of leaving it there when he got fired.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Sure just for you smoot we'll call it the "every team in the country who found themselves in the personnel situation we did last year plan" instead of the "Kentucky plan". Seems wordy but you like it better so I am willing to appease you.

This is where the wording comes into play. It's the Kentucky plan because every year they're replacing 4-6 players to the NBA draft so it's necessary for them to have tons of freshmen each year. MSU just had a weird scenario where we had 6 Sr on our roster last year. That won't be the norm of having a class that huge nor having 11 of 12 players on the roster underclassmen. Last year was the anomaly not the norm whereas Kentucky does this every year because they run through 1 & done guys yearly. That's where the confusion of the Kentucky plan is coming from.

[msstate7]

I think Cal is a good coach but he took UMASS to the Final 4 with the best player in the country on his team. He didn't have a bunch of scrubs.
Lsu had the best player in the country last year

[Dawg61]

I said Cal was a good coach. Was this directed at me or someone else?

Lots of good coaches out there. I don't think the only other guy besides Rick Pitino to take 3 different schools to a final four should get lumped in with all the other good coaches. Calipari is a great coach. End. Of. Story. Howland could learn something from him by how he handles all his freshman every year. Again my point of the thread.

[smootness]

Lsu had the best player in the country last year

Not really. Hield and Valentine at least were better players than Simmons last year.

Also, Johnny Jones suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.

[msstate7]

Also, Johnny Jones suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.

So, you're saying it takes a good coach too? Haha

[smootness]

Lots of good coaches out there. I don't think the only other guy besides Rick Pitino to take 3 different schools to a final four should get lumped in with all the other good coaches. Calipari is a great coach. End. Of. Story. Howland could learn something from him by how he handles all his freshman every year. Again my point of the thread.

Howland is the only other guy besides Coach K to make 3 straight Final Fours since it expanded to 64. Guess Calipari could learn something from Howland.

[smootness]

So, you're saying it takes a good coach too? Haha

I'm not trying to argue that Calipari is a bad coach. I'm trying to argue that as a pure coach, or teacher of the game, he isn't elite. He is an elite recruiter/amasser of talent, and that is not me trying to knock him. Sure, a bunch of his programs have had NCAA issues, but regardless, if you want to have talent come through your program and win games, he is a phenomenal choice. But Dawg61 is specifically lauding him for his handling of players and ability to get the most out of his guys, and I don't think he's the best around at that.

And Johnny Jones is a special kind of suck. It shouldn't be difficult to make the Tournament with Ben Simmons.

Think about this: make a list of all the guys who have played for him who have had lengthy, excellent NBA careers. Now think about the fact that 5 coaches have won multiple titles since he's been a college coach, and he's not one of them. Guys like Tubby Smith, Jay Wright, Kevin Ollie, Jim Harrick, and Gary Williams have the same number of titles.

Unbelievable recruiter, good coach.

[Dawg61]

This is where the wording comes into play. It's the Kentucky plan because every year they're replacing 4-6 players to the NBA draft so it's necessary for them to have tons of freshmen each year. MSU just had a weird scenario where we had 6 Sr on our roster last year. That won't be the norm of having a class that huge nor having 11 of 12 players on the roster underclassmen. Last year was the anomaly not the norm whereas Kentucky does this every year because they run through 1 & done guys yearly. That's where the confusion of the Kentucky plan is coming from.

Good point but I don't think our turnover is completely done till the start of next year just yet

[HSVDawg]

Lots of good coaches out there. I don't think the only other guy besides Rick Pitino to take 3 different schools to a final four should get lumped in with all the other good coaches. Calipari is a great coach. End. Of. Story. Howland could learn something from him by how he handles all his freshman every year. Again my point of the thread.

He's a great coach when you take into account his recruiting ability which is second to none (albeit bolstered by his Nike /AAU connections). However, as a gameday / floor coach he is average. And because of that, there's no way you can put him up with the all time elites like Wooden, Coach K, Dean Smith, Pitino, etc.

[DudyDawg]

I'm not trying to argue that Calipari is a bad coach. I'm trying to argue that as a pure coach, or teacher of the game, he isn't elite. He is an elite recruiter/amasser of talent, and that is not me trying to knock him. Sure, a bunch of his programs have had NCAA issues, but regardless, if you want to have talent come through your program and win games, he is a phenomenal choice. But Dawg61 is specifically lauding him for his handling of players and ability to get the most out of his guys, and I don't think he's the best around at that.

And Johnny Jones is a special kind of suck. It shouldn't be difficult to make the Tournament with Ben Simmons.

Cal really got the most out of Skal Labisierre

[Dawg61]

Howland is the only other guy besides Coach K to make 3 straight Final Fours since it expanded to 64. Guess Calipari could learn something from Howland.

UCLA Howland. Our Howland could learn something from UCLA Howland. He left him in California.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

smh.......:rolleyes:

[smootness]

UCLA Howland. Our Howland could learn something from UCLA Howland. He left him in California.

You're imagining the kind of coach Howland was at UCLA. He's the same guy.

[Dawg61]

You're imagining the kind of coach Howland was at UCLA. He's the same guy.

He never got a technical foul while coaching at UCLA? Doubtful

[smootness]

He never got a technical foul while coaching at UCLA? Doubtful

http://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/ben-howland-throws-jacket-video/179454

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Great point. I wish our fans would understand that a top 5 class does not mean we are on UK level. The main reason for the top class was the number of players. It was huge for a b-ball class.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

He can get pretty fired up looks like it..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzuaHU2m6dE

[AROB44]

The absolute stupidity (and Bama like) of our fans never ceases to amaze me.

[HoopsDawg]

The absolute stupidity (and Bama like) of our fans never ceases to amaze me.

It's really just one guy who may be a troll. 61, are u Hoover dawg?

[tireddawg]

Kind of what I was thinking

[Dawg61]

It's really just one guy who may be a troll. 61, are u Hoover dawg?

We get fleeced by the refs every game and we have a coach with zero technicals. That's a problem

[Dawg61]

He can get pretty fired up looks like it..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzuaHU2m6dE

Good where'd that guy go? I want that guy coaching us not Mr. Rodgers.

[smootness]

Good where'd that guy go? I want that guy coaching us not Mr. Rodgers.

First and only technical he got at UCLA. Howland has never been the type of coach you seem to think he is.

[HoopsCoach21]

We get fleeced by the refs every game and we have a coach with zero technicals. That's a problem

John Wooden hardly got up from the bench when he coached. He must've really sucked**

Look I'm not in the league with any of the coaches mentioned in this discussion but one thing I do feel I've learned is that you have to be genuine and coach with what fits your own personality. John Wooden felt like if he had to yell and scream to get his players to perform in games then he didn't do his job coaching them in practice. Then there are guys like Bob Knight who I'm sure we are all aware of his coaching antics.

There are many different approaches to dealing with players and they can vary as much as offensive and defensive philosophy. Howland has his own style and has proven it works just fine in the past and I have a feeling he will prove it once again in time.

How many technical fouls a coach gets has never been brought up when I've discussed how good of a job a coach was doing in coaching circles.

[DudyDawg]

We get fleeced by the refs every game and we have a coach with zero technicals. That's a problem

Got any specific examples of us getting screwed? Every college game I've seen is full of ticky tack calls. Saying we get fleeced every game just shows how fanatical and irrational you are. Which is par for the course for you.

[msstate7]

Jay wright just got a technical. Technicals lead to national championships**

He did just go off though

[Gutter Cobreh]

He's a great coach when you take into account his recruiting ability which is second to none (albeit bolstered by his Nike /AAU connections). However, as a gameday / floor coach he is average. And because of that, there's no way you can put him up with the all time elites like Wooden, Coach K, Dean Smith, Pitino, etc.

That description reminds me of the coach we had before Ray....

[Dawg61]

First and only technical he got at UCLA. Howland has never been the type of coach you seem to think he is.

Not good. Not in the South with a bunch of AAU kids that don't want any coaching already and haven't gotten any their entire lives.

[DudyDawg]

Not good. Not in the South with a bunch of AAU kids that don't want any coaching already and haven't gotten any their entire lives.

Coaching =/= technicals. And what does being in the south matter?

[dawgs]

I find it interesting how people correlate yelling & being pissed off with successful coaching.

Agreed. I was never someone that wanted to disappoint a coach, but yelling at me didn't do anything but tighten me up. Talk to me like a person if I did something wrong and let's correct it and I'd do my damnedest to get it right next time, don't just yell at me, cause that shit ain't gonna work.

[smootness]

Not good. Not in the South with a bunch of AAU kids that don't want any coaching already and haven't gotten any their entire lives.

Ah, so you're switching up the argument now, I see.

[smootness]

John Wooden hardly got up from the bench when he coached. He must've really sucked**

Look I'm not in the league with any of the coaches mentioned in this discussion but one thing I do feel I've learned is that you have to be genuine and coach with what fits your own personality. John Wooden felt like if he had to yell and scream to get his players to perform in games then he didn't do his job coaching them in practice. Then there are guys like Bob Knight who I'm sure we are all aware of his coaching antics.

There are many different approaches to dealing with players and they can vary as much as offensive and defensive philosophy. Howland has his own style and has proven it works just fine in the past and I have a feeling he will prove it once again in time.

How many technical fouls a coach gets has never been brought up when I've discussed how good of a job a coach was doing in coaching circles.

Great post. This guy gets it.

[Dawg61]

Ah, so you're switching up the argument now, I see.

Not one bit. Howland needs to get on the players and refs a whole bunch more than he seems to be willing to do.

[Dawg61]

We gave up 20+ points not getting back, got severely outrebounded and gave up a bunch of points in the paint and on top of that have a coach unwilling to get on his players or the refs. Then y'all call me a troll for pointing it out. No wonder we suck. Everyone of you losers willing to put up with it deserve a shitty program and a shitty Hump. Congrats losers

[dawgday166]

Not sure how getting on the refs has too much to do with anything. I kinda figure a little patience with a proven commodity (Howland) is necessary here. He's only in his 2nd year and what he inherited wasn't a top notch program.

[Dawg61]

Not sure how getting on the refs has too much to do with anything. I kinda figure a little patience with a proven commodity (Howland) is necessary here. He's only in his 2nd year and what he inherited wasn't a top notch program.

Why do we ask/want Mullen to show some intensity and "want to"? Answer is similar here.

[dawgday166]

Why do we ask/want Mullen to show some intensity and "want to"? Answer is similar here.

I don't necessarily think that translates into W's or L's with Dan either. Why a lot of other folks think so .. I'm not sure. In '14 I don't recall Dan raising hell too much when we went on the run to beat 3 top tens in a row. Now he may have raised hell in the offseason to get them to work, but I don't recall seeing it before, during, or after games.

Differences between Dan and Ben 1) Howland has been a HC before he got here and took 2 teams to Sweet 16 and 1 of those to 3 straight final 4's. 2) Ben's only been here 2 years. I tend to believe every coach should have at least 3 and mostly 4 years to get their program established.

[smootness]

Not one bit. Howland needs to get on the players and refs a whole bunch more than he seems to be willing to do.

You were arguing that he's changed from the guy he was when he was successful. He hasn't at all.

[smootness]

Why do we ask/want Mullen to show some intensity and "want to"? Answer is similar here.

It's a similarly bad argument in football.

Did you ever once see Sherrill react in any way, shape, or form? No.

The whole 'our coach needs to get ticked!' response is a typical illogical argument fans make when they aren't winning. Because it's all we can really see. But it doesn't mean a thing.

[Ari Gold]

Coach Cal went 38-2 with a Natty his third year at UK and came back the next year With an NIT invite. I guess he didn't throw his jacket , get enough T's or rip those players ass enough that year.

Some kids u can Ride hard some you can't. Some coaches rip ass as a teaching moment, some just teach. Some coaches ride Officlas ass every game some not as much as others. Coach Howland has earned The respect of the officials in the Confernece and around the country with his resume. And with kids with his ability to get players to the league
They know who the **** he is and what he can do..

So Enough of this stupid ****ing bullshit of a thread .

[dawgday166]

It's a similarly bad argument in football.

Did you ever once see Sherrill react in any way, shape, or form? No.

The whole 'our coach needs to get ticked!' response is a typical illogical argument fans make when they aren't winning. Because it's all we can really see. But it doesn't mean a thing.

They also see Saban do it. He's one of the few I've ever seen get away with it as much as he does it. Everyone gets pissed here and there ... Saban stays pissed tho. You don't see the root of his coaching tree (Belichick) get pissed too often (if ever).

[Dawg61]

Coach Cal went 38-2 with a Natty his third year at UK and came back the next year With an NIT invite. I guess he didn't throw his jacket , get enough T's or rip those players ass enough that year.

Some kids u can Ride hard some you can't. Some coaches rip ass as a teaching moment, some just teach. Some coaches ride Officlas ass every game some not as much as others. Coach Howland has earned The respect of the officials in the Confernece and around the country with his resume. And with kids with his ability to get players to the league
They know who the **** he is and what he can do..

So Enough of this stupid ****ing bullshit of a thread .

Bruh when you give up 20+ points cause everyone on your team is lazy getting back ya better rip somebody's ass.

[Behrdawg]

Howland doesn't get on players in-game like at ucla. I don't know if that anything to do with our performance, but it's true

He has high blood pressure