Firing a Coach after 9-4 season?

[1bigdawg]

Minnesota just fired their coach after finishing 9-4 including a bowl win. Was that their best recent season?

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18402000/minnesota-golden-gophers-announce-firing-coach-tracy-claeys

[msstate7]

Makes you wonder if they already have someone lined up. That's crazy

ETA... nevermind just read link

[Dawgology]

Probably but it was less for 4 losses and more for upsetting the Snowflakes

[preachermatt83]

Dumb.

[drunkernhelldawg]

A lot of people in education end up getting fired when they stick up for their charges. It's kinda an occupational hazard.

[Liverpooldawg]

It didn't have anything to do with football. I'd say they just killed their program for a while.

[TrapGame]

Morons infest Minnesota.

[Really Clark?]

There is a possible large number of players that will transfer. Several have come out and said it wasn't the coach, no matter who they bring in, but the administration they won't play for.

[HSVDawg]

Morons infest Minnesota.

Two things:

1) He publicly went against the decision of his adminstration (his bosses) in regards to punishment for a very serious offense.
2) He publicly supported a group of individuals decision to not play football when the university had invested millions of dollars in scholarship money and other support services for the sole purpose of them playing football.

The coach is a complete moron and deserved to be fired.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Two things:

1) He publicly went against the decision of his adminstration (his bosses) in regards to punishment for a very serious offense.
2) He publicly supported a group of individuals decision to not play football when the university had invested millions of dollars in scholarship money and other support services for the sole purpose of them playing football.

The coach is a complete moron and deserved to be fired.

You do realize they were cleared of any wrong doing by law enforcement right?

[1bigdawg]

Also, what successful coach is going to want to go there now? I read the article, but think they are delusional if they think the top names are going to be enthusiastic. Coaches have been fired in the past for a) W/Ls or horribly gross misconduct (ie. Petrino, Briles).

[DudyDawg]

You do realize they were cleared of any wrong doing by law enforcement right?

Law enforcement =/= student conduct policies

[Dawgology]

Law enforcement =/= student conduct policies

Sure am glad we didn't get kicked out of school for ****ing back in the day.....

[Dawgology]

Also, what successful coach is going to want to go there now? I read the article, but think they are delusional if they think the top names are going to be enthusiastic. Coaches have been fired in the past for a) W/Ls or horribly gross misconduct (ie. Petrino, Briles).

They mentioned Fleck and I actually laughed out loud.

[CadaverDawg]

There is a possible large number of players that will transfer. Several have come out and said it wasn't the coach, no matter who they bring in, but the administration they won't play for.

We on any of their OL guys?

[Really Clark?]

You do realize they were cleared of any wrong doing by law enforcement right?

Agreed but for argument sake, that doesn't mean the university shouldn't have the right to suspend a player, or any student for that matter, for conduct unbecoming a student of that university. I don't what the student handbook states for MM but while the DA said the video shows that criminal evidence wasn't present, it was still a deplorable act. There are a lot of things that while not criminal can and do have consequences in society.

[Really Clark?]

Sure am glad we didn't get kicked out of school for ****ing back in the day.....

Was it group sex and did the female file charges? Consensual one on one is a completely different issue and there have been many face discipline when sexual misconduct took place. Including expulsion.

[gtowndawg]

We on any of their OL guys?

Someone choose Minnesota over us. A DB maybe?

[HSVDawg]

Agreed but for argument sake, that doesn't mean the university shouldn't have the right to suspend a player, or any student for that matter, for conduct unbecoming a student of that university. I don't what the student handbook states for MM but while the DA said the video shows that criminal evidence wasn't present, it was still a deplorable act. There are a lot of things that while not criminal can and do have consequences in society.

Very true. And really, I could care less what the students did or didn't do as it relates to the situation with the coach firing. Not even going to get into all that as far as the current climate of sexual assault, etc. The fact is it was a public display of insubordination. If he wants to go to bat for his kids behind closed doors, that's fine. But no administrationin in the country would support a coach publicly putting them on blast for something of this nature. He had a 100% chance of getting canned for his statements, and if he didn't realize it he is an idiot.

[DudyDawg]

Y'all should read the 80 plus page report. There is some pretty gruesome stuff if I'm thinking of the same case. IIRC, the team was boycotting and the school allowed them to read the report and the team immediately ended the boycott

[Really Clark?]

Very true. And really, I could care less what the students did or didn't do as it relates to the situation with the coach firing. Not even going to get into all that as far as the current climate of sexual assault, etc. The fact is it was a public display of insubordination. If he wants to go to bat for his kids behind closed doors, that's fine. But no administrationin in the country would support a coach publicly putting them on blast for something of this nature. He had a 100% chance of getting canned for his statements, and if he didn't realize it he is an idiot.

I agree with that. Honestly, the whole thing was a cluster and played out in the media. From administration, coach and players. Seems like it was really mishandled and may have been other issues underneath this situation that just brought it to head.

[CadaverDawg]

Someone choose Minnesota over us. A DB maybe?

Landrews almost did, but signed with us. I would think a 9-4 Big10 OL is probably much better than most of our OL depth chart. I'd love some big uglies from the midwest

[smootness]

Y'all should read the 80 plus page report. There is some pretty gruesome stuff if I'm thinking of the same case. IIRC, the team was boycotting and the school allowed them to read the report and the team immediately ended the boycott

Correct. The same guys who said the suspension was unjust because no criminal charges were filed, and were ready to not play football because of it, immediately said, 'Oh, nevermind' once given all the information.

[lamont]

This is the case where the girl said she agreed to have sex with 2 guys- not 4. Supposedly they misunderstood her group sex intentions

[lamont]

Correct. The same guys who said the suspension was unjust because no criminal charges were filed, and were ready to not play football because of it, immediately said, 'Oh, nevermind' once given all the information.

So the information was bad enough to make 22 year olds change their mind- but not bad enough to file charges? Either they went against her will or they didnt

[smootness]

So the information was bad enough to make 22 year olds change their mind- but not bad enough to file charges?

Yes, apparently....since that is exactly what happened.

[Liverpooldawg]

You do realize they were cleared of any wrong doing by law enforcement right?

You do realize that student conduct policies aren't the same as the law right?

[Quaoarsking]

Practically every job in America will fire you if you go on Twitter and publicly disagree with you boss. Regardless of whether the players have legitimate beef or not, this can't be a surprise for Claeys

[gtowndawg]

Landrews almost did, but signed with us. I would think a 9-4 Big10 OL is probably much better than most of our OL depth chart. I'd love some big uglies from the midwest

You're right. Agreed, would love some big corn fed country dudes.

[HSVDawg]

So the information was bad enough to make 22 year olds change their mind- but not bad enough to file charges? Either they went against her will or they didnt

It's not exactly that simple. Read the article below which provides a lot of detail on the case. I won't go into all the detail, but here are two key points:

1) The players weren't necessarily "cleared" of the charges. Declining to press charges and clearing charges are not the same thing.
2) Law enforcement and the university use two completely different criteria when judging whether to pursue punishment. The justice system will only press charges if they feel it us "beyond a reasonable doubt" that something illegal happened. The university can pursue punishment simply if it feels it is more likely than not something that is against the code of conduct occurred (and are obligated by law to do so according to Title IX regulations).

http://www.twincities.com/2016/12/19/legal-experts-on-gophers-football-much-has-been-misunderstood/

Overall, it is very similar to the Jameis Winston case, except it involves more players and it does not appear that Minnesota was nearly as corrupt in their handling of the case as FSU was.

[smootness]

Beyond a reasonable doubt...not 'a shadow of a doubt'

[HSVDawg]

Beyond a reasonable doubt...not 'a shadow of a doubt'

You have outed yourself as a lawyer. Thanks though....I edited the original post. Overall point was that the law requires about a 90% certainty to go to trial whereas the the university only requires about a 51% certainty.

[smootness]

You have outed yourself as a lawyer. Thanks though....I edited the original post. Overall point was that the law requires about a 90% certainty to go to trial whereas the the university only requires about a 51% certainty.

I am not a lawyer. I just get frustrated when people make that mistake. Juries make the same mistake as well.

[lamont]

Yes, apparently....since that is exactly what happened.

Every guy on that team knew what happened before they were shown anything I can promise you that. Probably 1/3 of them knew within an hour of when it occurred. Texting allows teammates to spread info even faster these days

[Johnson85]

Practically every job in America will fire you if you go on Twitter and publicly disagree with you boss. Regardless of whether the players have legitimate beef or not, this can't be a surprise for Claeys

I'm not sure what information teh coach had, but a police investigator had watched the video and determined "she does not appear to be upset by the sexual activity and does not indicate that she wants it to stop ... and the sexual contact appears entirely consensual." And then the players were suspended.

Maybe the university had more information, like evidence that some of the players had actually drugged her or something, but if the coach and players only had the information that the video showed consensual sex, it would be disappointing if the players and coach didn't push back on the administration.

[HSVDawg]

I am not a lawyer. I just get frustrated when people make that mistake. Juries make the same mistake as well.

Understandable.

[smootness]

Every guy on that team knew what happened before they were shown anything I can promise you that. Probably 1/3 of them knew within an hour of when it occurred. Texting allows teammates to spread info even faster these days

Then they're all dumb. Because they were gung ho about fighting the administration, then saw the information the administration had and immediately backed off. They were adamant initially that not all the players suspended were involved.

[smootness]

I'm not sure what information teh coach had, but a police investigator had watched the video and determined "she does not appear to be upset by the sexual activity and does not indicate that she wants it to stop ... and the sexual contact appears entirely consensual." And then the players were suspended.

Maybe the university had more information, like evidence that some of the players had actually drugged her or something, but if the coach and players only had the information that the video showed consensual sex, it would be disappointing if the players and coach didn't push back on the administration.

Or maybe the school doesn't condone the behavior, whether it's illegal or not.

[sandwolf]

Two things:

1) He publicly went against the decision of his adminstration (his bosses) in regards to punishment for a very serious offense.
2) He publicly supported a group of individuals decision to not play football when the university had invested millions of dollars in scholarship money and other support services for the sole purpose of them playing football.

The coach is a complete moron and deserved to be fired.

Agreed.

[Bully13]

Heard a radio guy this a.m. who says they have a guy already lined up. Coach that coaches the team that played WI in cotton bowl.

[drunkernhelldawg]

You have outed yourself as a lawyer. Thanks though....I edited the original post. Overall point was that the law requires about a 90% certainty to go to trial whereas the the university only requires about a 51% certainty.

Personally I learned it from jury instructions about five years ago.

[smootness]

Heard a radio guy this a.m. who says they have a guy already lined up. Coach that coaches the team that played WI in cotton bowl.

If they get Fleck, that's a massive home run.

[sandwolf]

....it would be disappointing if the players and coach didn't push back on the administration.

I don't have a problem with the coach going to bat for his players (assuming that he had run down all of the facts), but he can't do it publicly.....and he damn sure can't do it by condoning something like a boycott that would cost his employer a great deal of money and fan support.

Remember when Gary Pinkel supported his players boycotting the BYU game last year and the university folded? Well they are still paying dearly for not taking control of that shit show. Here's an excerpt from an SI article on the fallout (Link to full article) (http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/11/08/how-missouri-football-has-changed-1-year-after-boycott):


According to data the school released in August, enrollment for the fall 2016 semester was down 8% compared to fall 2015, and the backlash to the school's handling of the boycott and protests?as well as the leadership vacuum it created?are in large part to blame for that drop. Anticipating that decline and a decline in donations, interim chancellor Hank Foley mandated a hiring freeze and instructed a 5% cut to the university's budget for the fiscal year that began in July, projecting a $32 million shortfall.

From another article last February (LINK) (http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/02/22/missouri-tigers-athletic-donations-decline-football-boycott):


In the month of December, the athletic department received $191,000 in donations. That is a 68.7% decline from what the school received in December 2014.


Donations were also down at the school for academic programs. In total, monetary support fell by around $6 million in December 2015.

I think schools paid attention to the way things played out at Mizzou, and I don't think they want any part of that. I was shocked when Pinkel publicly supported the boycott without repercussion, but I don't think we will see that in the future.

[Really Clark?]

I don't have a problem with the coach going to bat for his players (assuming that he had run down all of the facts), but he can't do it publicly.....and he damn sure can't do it by condoning something like a boycott that would cost his employer a great deal of money and fan support.

Remember when Gary Pinkel supported his players boycotting the BYU game last year and the university folded? Well they are still paying dearly for not taking control of that shit show. Here's an excerpt from an SI article on the fallout (Link to full article) (http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/11/08/how-missouri-football-has-changed-1-year-after-boycott):



From another article last February (LINK) (http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/02/22/missouri-tigers-athletic-donations-decline-football-boycott):





I think schools paid attention to the way things played out at Mizzou, and I don't think they want any part of that. I was shocked when Pinkel publicly supported the boycott without repercussion, but I don't think we will see that in the future.

Pinkel was retiring with lymphoma anyway so no need to add fuel to that fire. They just let it play out

[TimberBeast]

I don't have a problem with the coach going to bat for his players (assuming that he had run down all of the facts), but he can't do it publicly.....and he damn sure can't do it by condoning something like a boycott that would cost his employer a great deal of money and fan support.

Remember when Gary Pinkel supported his players boycotting the BYU game last year and the university folded? Well they are still paying dearly for not taking control of that shit show. Here's an excerpt from an SI article on the fallout (Link to full article) (http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/11/08/how-missouri-football-has-changed-1-year-after-boycott):



From another article last February (LINK) (http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/02/22/missouri-tigers-athletic-donations-decline-football-boycott):





I think schools paid attention to the way things played out at Mizzou, and I don't think they want any part of that. I was shocked when Pinkel publicly supported the boycott without repercussion, but I don't think we will see that in the future.

Didn't know about that fallout at Mizzou. I love it, they deserve every bit of it. If I'm an alumni I would want the house cleaned out.

[sandwolf]

If I'm an alumni I would want the house cleaned out. Yep, and they wouldn't get another dollar from me until it was.

[sandwolf]

Pinkel was retiring with lymphoma anyway so no need to add fuel to that fire. They just let it play outI'm not sure I follow you. Add fuel to what fire? And let what play out?

[Really Clark?]

I'm not sure I follow you. Add fuel to what fire? And let what play out?

You said you were shocked he didn't face any repercussions for publically supporting the boycott. He might have if he wasn't retiring anyway. Firing him for that would have added fuel to the turmoil MO was already facing.

[sandwolf]

You said you were shocked he didn't face any repercussions for publically supporting the boycott. He might have if he wasn't retiring anyway. Firing him for that would have added fuel to the turmoil MO was already facing.It has crossed my mind that they may have fired him if he wasn't going to retire anyway......but then I remember the fact that they actually caved to this bullshit and the president of the university stepped down over this.

And yea, it may have added fuel to the fire.....but they at least let they fans and donors know that they have the balls to not allow the coach that they are paying millions to publicly call for something that is harmful to the program and university. I definitely don't think that it would've made things any worse.