I Knew it Was a Bad Decision to Emotionally Reinvest in Basketball Tonight.

[ShotgunDawg]

I hate basketball, but I gave our team a chance tonight.

I emotionally re-engaged tonight & cleared my schedule root on the Dawgs.

I was greeted by a team with no low post presence & no defense.

You won't see me at the Hump this year.

Maybe someday this program will get back on it's feet.

[MaroonDawg4Life]

Yeah we arent that good at all. I thought this class would be on the level of kentucky but I was wrong. Bama is not that good and we lose at home to them by jacking up a 100 3s and can't hit any of them.

[drummerdawg]

Yeah we arent that good at all. I thought this class would be on the level of kentucky but I was wrong. Bama is not that good and we lose at home to them by jacking up a 100 3s and can't hit any of them.

Why would you think we'd be on the level of Kentucky?

[maroonmania]

I had a bad feeling about tonight after either losing or struggling to beat a slew of bad teams in the pre-conference. Couldn't bring myself to watch it so just kept live stats running. I was hoping I was wrong but this team still has a very, very long way to go to just compete with good teams (which Bama is not).

[WPDawg]

I hate basketball, but I gave our team a chance tonight.

I emotionally re-engaged tonight & cleared my schedule root on the Dawgs.

I was greeted by a team with no low post presence & no defense.

You won't see me at the Hump this year.

Maybe someday this program will get back on it's feet.

Ha. Move on then. They will not miss your non-support.

[Big4Dawg]

Yeah we arent that good at all. I thought this class would be on the level of kentucky but I was wrong. Bama is not that good and we lose at home to them by jacking up a 100 3s and can't hit any of them.

This class is no where near Kentucky. They have 4 top 25 guys in each class. We have zero on entire roster. We have a bunch of future decent college players.

[HSVDawg]

This class is no where near Kentucky. They have 4 top 25 guys in each class. We have zero on entire roster. We have a bunch of future decent college players.

This exactly. People that are used to football recruiting often have a hard time understanding basketball recruiting. In football, there isn't a lot of separation between the #1 and #4 ranked classes. In basketball, the top 2 or 3 classes (pretty much Kentucky, Duke, and Kansas or NC usually) are truly elite and the next 10 or so classes are all equivalent to maybe a #10 -#15 football class and don't have a lot of separation. The gap between class #'s 3 and 4 is about equal to the discrepency between #4 and #40. Our talent level compared to Kentucky is ridiculously low.

[Homedawg]

I hate basketball, but I gave our team a chance tonight.

I emotionally re-engaged tonight & cleared my schedule root on the Dawgs.

I was greeted by a team with no low post presence & no defense.

You won't see me at the Hump this year.

Maybe someday this program will get back on it's feet.

It took you until tonight to know all that? What have you been watching? Whatever it was, you had maroon colored glasses on.

[Homedawg]

Yeah we arent that good at all. I thought this class would be on the level of kentucky but I was wrong. Bama is not that good and we lose at home to them by jacking up a 100 3s and can't hit any of them.

If you thought this then I just can't help you. The difference in the top 10 basketball recruit vs a top 100 is equal to a top 300 in football vs a top 2000. Big difference some make it in each group some don't. And to add, all of ours Except q are fr. And q struggled tonight. It happens.

[thf24]

Tonight was simply an illustration of what some of us have been saying since the third game. Besides being insanely young, we must depend heavily on outside jump shots because we have no reliable inside presence (yet). If those shots are falling, we have a chance to beat anyone not named Kentucky. If not, we can easily lose to anyone in the conference. We're also most likely going to go as Q goes from here out. If he has a bad game, we probably lose. If you were surprised by any of this, then you weren't paying attention prior to this game. Forget expectations and just look for the high points this season; next year is the year.

[NCDawg]

Why would you think we'd be on the level of Kentucky?

Right, probably only 2 times in our history have we been on their level. Once when Bailey Howell played, and our 1996 team.

[mparkerfd20]

Howland is a good recruiter. It is yet to be seen if he can coach.

[AROB44]

Howland is a good recruiter. It is yet to be seen if he can coach.

I am sure there are much better coaches on this message board. ******

[Bothrops]

Howland is a good recruiter. It is yet to be seen if he can coach.

Howland has a very good track record at 3 other schools, and his win records show major improvement in year two. We should be beyond the point of having a setback like last night, by now. So I'm a little concerned.

[msstate7]

When it's obvious our shooting is off, I wish we would full court press some esp against bigger teams like bama last night. Seems this would be a way to get us some easy baskets

[thf24]

Howland has a very good track record at 3 other schools, and his win records show major improvement in year two. We should be beyond the point of having a setback like last night, by now. So I'm a little concerned.

I doubt he started with the cupboard as bare as he did here at Pitt and UCLA. His best talent last year were freshman, then he had to start almost completely over this year, returning only two significant contributors in Q and Ready (Holman only played half a season and spent most of that time getting his legs under him). With even more talent coming in and current weaknesses shored up, next year should look more like year 2 at his last two stops.

[smootness]

Howland has a very good track record at 3 other schools, and his win records show major improvement in year two. We should be beyond the point of having a setback like last night, by now. So I'm a little concerned.

Actually, no, they show major improvement in year three. We're not there yet.

Our fans need to chill and keep supporting these kids. If you looked at Kentucky and thought, 'As long as you have highly recruited freshmen, you'll be great!' then that's on you. Their freshmen are on a different level, and even they are older than we are.

We have the kind of kids that have a chance to be really good by years 2-3. These are not kids expected to step in and carry you to a Final Four right away. We basically have a bunch of Jamont Gordon's and Charles Rhodes'. They weren't that good right away but they got there.

The last thing this group needs is a bunch of fans who tune in, say, 'Ah, they suck' and give up. Get behind them and see where they can take us. Because we're going there, the only question is when our own fans decide to get on board.

[KentuckyDawg13]

You won't see me at the Hump this year.


Typical fair weather response.
Obviously, you do not understand basketball.
This young team NEEDS fan support more than anything. They feed off of energy. They were outmatched and it showed. For those thinking BAMA is a bad team, go watch some basketball and learn. BAMA has improved for the past three years and they have quality upperclassmen. We have none. Zero.
Our team is improving and if anyone with an ounce of basketball knowledge can see it. The potential is high, and we do rely on the outside shot too much. Sort of expected when the opposing team is taller/bigger at EVERY position.
For our team to come out of the half and tie the game shows the potential they have. They need fan support and people in the seats. Home court advantage has not been present @ MSU in over 5 yrs. It affects everything, down to ref calls which were terrible last night.

[Cowboydawg]

I think people are overreacting because either
A. You're expectations were too high
Or
B. You don't understand the game of basketball very well

[defiantdog]

Damn..... some of you gave Ray 3 years but you won't give a proven winner 3. We need more big men..... any of you that followed any sort of basketball recruiting would know that Herard needed time to develop. You'd also know that we missed on recruiting the 4, which is what we needed desperately. Y'all are some impatient bastards.

[Cowboydawg]

Damn..... some of you gave Ray 3 years but you won't give a proven winner 3. We need more big men..... any of you that followed any sort of basketball recruiting would know that Herard needed time to develop. You'd also know that we missed on recruiting the 4, which is what we needed desperately. Y'all are some impatient bastards.

A Gavin Ware would make a huge difference on this team. You could slide Holman to the 4 and you have your big body rebounder and your off side shot blocker. Herard is giving his all but like you said...he needs time.

[Dawgface]

I think people are overreacting because either
A. You're expectations were too high
Or
B. You don't understand the game of basketball very well

C. Some understand we suck and are tired of it.

[BrunswickDawg]

Anyone who thought this was going to be an easy 1-2 year rebuild was fooling themselves. The game has changed way too much over over the past 10 years - and it has been way too long since we were a Top 25 program for this to be easy.

While everyone wants to blame Loafers and Rick Ray - the decay is much deeper. MSU has not finished a season in the Top 25 since 2004. MSU has not had a NCAA Tourney team since 2009. It's 2017 - and it has been 13 years since we were really relevant on a national level. We had a nice run from 1991-2004 - but even that only included six finishes in the Top 25. That is not a basketball power school. It just isn't. And before that, you have to go back to the 1960s to see us ranked.

The Hump used to be a great place to watch basketball. We had some great games and competitive teams. We didn't suck a lot (unlike football), although I sat through 3 years of mediocre ball from 1992-1994 before actually seeing a "good" team in 95. But beyond that, no one should be thinking Howland was going to turn us into Kentucky. If you do, you are on some high quality weed.

[louisvilledawg]

Right, probably only 2 times in our history have we been on their level. Once when Bailey Howell played, and our 1996 team.

Add Lawrence Robert's first year

[thf24]

C. Some understand we suck and are tired of it.

Nope, go back to A or B. If you think we can be good right away at MSU after the 5-6 years before Howland we subjected ourselves to, you're delusional. At this point your options are either have some patience, understanding we're finally back on a good track, or stop paying attention.

[msstate7]

A Gavin Ware would make a huge difference on this team. You could slide Holman to the 4 and you have your big body rebounder and your off side shot blocker. Herard is giving his all but like you said...he needs time.

I wish we had kept giving datcher a few mins a game. If so, we could afford to go big with herard and Holman on the court at the same time vs teams like bama

[thf24]

I wish we had kept giving datcher a few mins a game. If so, we could afford to go big with herard and Holman on the court at the same time vs teams like bama

Agreed. Having to play a stretch 4 as our starting C is killing us in more ways than one.

[Cowboydawg]

C. Some understand we suck and are tired of it.

That's understandable but this team has some real talent. I'm tired of sucking in basketball too and I was mad last night after the loss but these freshmen cant be held accountable for the past few teams failures. They are going to get better...this year...but they are also going to be frustrating at times. Howland has some great film from last night where they can see when they are at their best and when they are at their worst. That was the first SEC game of their careers. Don't give up on the yet!

[tcdog70]

Right, probably only 2 times in our history have we been on their level. Once when Bailey Howell played, and our 1996 team.

wrong--- 1990 team was and the Rickey Brown -Wiley Peck-Ray White team was.

[dawgday166]

Howland is a good recruiter. It is yet to be seen if he can coach.

Do you really believe this?

[Cowboydawg]

I wish we had kept giving datcher a few mins a game. If so, we could afford to go big with herard and Holman on the court at the same time vs teams like bama

I don't know what's going on with Datcher. I thought he looked more fluid and athletic than Herard when he played. Seems to rebound just as well also.

[HSVDawg]

Howland has a very good track record at 3 other schools, and his win records show major improvement in year two. We should be beyond the point of having a setback like last night, by now. So I'm a little concerned.

Past the point of having a setback like last night? Shit, we lost by 15 to f-ing Lehigh. I'm not real sure what folks were expecting as we hit SEC play. This team is gonna have some head scratching performances, which is typical of young teams that rely heavily on 3 point shooting.

[BB30]

Past the point of having a setback like last night? Shit, we lost by 15 to f-ing Lehigh. I'm not real sure what folks were expecting as we hit SEC play. This team is gonna have some head scratching performances, which is typical of young teams that rely heavily on 3 point shooting.

Agreed, we will have some terrible games but we can also beat just about anyone left on the schedule when we are on. They are young. We really really need to find and or develop a true 5 instead of playing a stretch 4 down low. Most of these kids have never learned to play defense it will take some time. We are light years ahead of where we were 3-4 years ago even if it has not shown up on the court yet.

[fishwater99]

I doubt he started with the cupboard as bare as he did here at Pitt and UCLA. His best talent last year were freshman, then he had to start almost completely over this year, returning only two significant contributors in Q and Ready (Holman only played half a season and spent most of that time getting his legs under him). With even more talent coming in and current weaknesses shored up, next year should look more like year 2 at his last two stops.

I agree, he gets another pass this year. Next year we need to be in or really close to the NCAA tourney. In year 4 we should be a Sweet 16 team.

[smootness]

Howland is a good recruiter. It is yet to be seen if he can coach.

No, that is not yet to be seen.

[Shooter McGavin]

C. Some understand we suck and are tired of it.

Damn we have quite the number of people on here who don't have a clue about basketball. If you can't see we have some talented young players then I can't help you because you don't know anything about basketball. As others have said, our freshman aren't Kentucky's freshmen. If you expected that, that's your fault for being delusional. Our guys best years are ahead of them. Last night was bad and I was frustrated afterwards too, but these guys are getting better. Just be patient.

[tcdog70]

it is pretty simple and has been said before. We live by the 3 and we die by the 3. Last night we died a grisly death. Q cannot have a $hitty game and us win. Ben really got the shaft when Ado didn't qualify. When the other team needs to score they just go to Ready's man and either drive by Him or shoot over Him. I think X needs to start with Peters and give Ready limited minutes. Plus last night Ready sucked on the offensive end.Peters needs to learn how not to commit silly fouls. When we shoot over 35% from the 3 we have a chance to win.

[HoopsDawg]

Damn..... some of you gave Ray 3 years but you won't give a proven winner 3. We need more big men..... any of you that followed any sort of basketball recruiting would know that Herard needed time to develop. You'd also know that we missed on recruiting the 4, which is what we needed desperately. Y'all are some impatient bastards.

Yep, De'Ron Davis would have made a huge difference with this team.

[Shooter McGavin]

I hate basketball, but I gave our team a chance tonight.

I emotionally re-engaged tonight & cleared my schedule root on the Dawgs.

I was greeted by a team with no low post presence & no defense.

You won't see me at the Hump this year.

Maybe someday this program will get back on it's feet.

Wow you cleared your schedule?! We are all so proud of you and glad you graced us with your basketball support for a game!1!11 Now we won't see you at the hump this year! However will we all survive?!!1/?!

I'll second Kentuckydawg you're a typical fairweather fan. No one cares if you don't come to anymore games so stay your ass at the house if that's what you want to do.

[HoopsDawg]

I wish we had kept giving datcher a few mins a game. If so, we could afford to go big with herard and Holman on the court at the same time vs teams like bama

I think we actually found a lineup last night with Peters, Q, X, Keglar, and Holman. And then what happens, X hurts his knee again and has to come out. That lineup was matching up well as far as defense and rebounding and we were closing the gap.

[msstate7]

I think we actually found a lineup last night with Peters, Q, X, Keglar, and Holman. And then what happens, X hurts his knee again and has to come out. That lineup was matching up well as far as defense and rebounding and we were closing the gap.

Any word on Stapleton?

[tcdog70]

No, that is not yet to be seen.

Smoot, how much more proof does someone need? Pretty sure our Coach is a top 10 Coach. He is like Cohen He proved what he could do before ever setting foot on campus.

[fishwater99]

Any word on Stapleton?

Not yet, hope he just tweaked it. Can he tear it again with that metal brace on?

[drunkernhelldawg]

MSU has not finished a season in the Top 25 since 2004. MSU has not had a NCAA Tourney team since 2009. It's 2017 - and it has been 13 years since we were really relevant on a national level. We had a nice run from 1991-2004 - but even that only included six finishes in the Top 25. That is not a basketball power school. It just isn't. And before that, you have to go back to the 1960s to see us ranked.

.

It's still pretty damn good. I miss the rocking hump and the knowledge that we are the dominant team in our division and our state.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Howland is a good recruiter. It is yet to be seen if he can coach.

One thing that gives me hope is the realization that a small change can make a big difference. Remember last night on tv when the announcer said Bama's coach told the team to stop looking to the bench for a play and just play basketball? That seemed to be working for the five loss team last night. Maybe we're just teaching one thing the wrong way.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

wth? Kentucky? We didnt get 5 McDonalds All-Americans like they do every year. In fact we didnt even get 1!!! The ignorance about basketball on this board is off the charts. Yes were not a good team right now but we are so damn young, geez. We have players that played in their first SEC game!

It's been said before but I think many on here have forgotten or just don't know how Howland's path has gone at each of his stops. Well here ya go folks. Look particularly year 2 to year 3 difference. (Oh he is in year 2 here btw, in case you forgot)

1994-95 Northern Arizona 9-17 4-10 7th
1995-96 Northern Arizona 7-19 3-11 7th
1996-97 Northern Arizona 21-7 13-1 1st NIT First Round
1997-98 Northern Arizona 21-8 12-2 1st NCAA Round of 64

1999-00 Pittsburgh 13-15 5-11 11th
2000-01 Pittsburgh 19-14 7-9 5th (West) NIT Second Round
2001-02 Pittsburgh 29-6 13-3 1st (West) NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2002-03 Pittsburgh 28-5 13-3 T-1st (West) NCAA Sweet Sixteen

2003-04 UCLA 11-17 7-11 T-7th
2004-05 UCLA 18-11 11-7 T-3rd NCAA Round of 64
2005-06 UCLA 32-7 14-4 1st NCAA Runner-up
2006-07 UCLA 30-6 15-3 1st NCAA Final Four

[HSVDawg]

Smoot, how much more proof does someone need? Pretty sure our Coach is a top 10 Coach. He is like Cohen He proved what he could do before ever setting foot on campus.

And also like Cohen, he needs 3 years to clean up the mess. Anyone remember how awful Cohen's first 2 squads were?

[Liverpooldawg]

Not yet, hope he just tweaked it. Can he tear it again with that metal brace on?

Yes

[HoopsDawg]

And also like Cohen, he needs 3 years to clean up the mess. Anyone remember how awful Cohen's first 2 squads were?

Howland has said the situation here in Year 1 reminded him of when he took over Northern Arizona. Let that sink in for a minute.

[Liverpooldawg]

Some of y'all just need to chill out. Anyone that thought we were going to be decent this year had unrealistic expectations. We have the least experienced team in Division One. That's last out of something like 315 teams. It was also apparent early on that our bigs were raw as heck. The effort will get better. These guys were just getting used to the level of competition we had been playing. Even though the SEC is down and Bama ain't good, it's still a whole new level. I'm not worried about the effort. What I am worried about is the inside game. That may take a lot longer to come around.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

adding Ado and Brooks, Feazell next year will help. Where was Datcher last night? I must have missed it being talked about?

[msstate7]

adding Ado and Brooks, Feazell next year will help. Where was Datcher last night? I must have missed it being talked about?

Not sure why we've seemingly given up on datcher...

Herard...
16.0 mins/game 36.8 fg% 4.4 reb 0.3 blk 0.1 steal 1.6 pts

Datcher...
8.3 mins/game 40.0 fg%. 2.3 reb 0.8 blk 0.2 steal 1.0 pts

Seems pretty equal

[thf24]

Howland has said the situation here in Year 1 reminded him of when he took over Northern Arizona. Let that sink in for a minute.

To add for reference, Howland's records in his first three years there were 9-17, 7-19, and then 21-7.

[BrunswickDawg]

To add for reference, Howland's records in his first three years there were 9-17, 7-19, and then 21-7.

Great Point.

We are already on pace to exceed this year. We are 9-4. Other than KY, UF, and Ark - who else on our schedule are we not competitive with? We can easily go 9-9 or better in conference play. That would put us at 18-20 wins. 20 Wins is 1 off of Stands average season over 14 years. Hell, most years we "won" the West with 9-7 or even 8-8 records in SEC play. Are we really going to melt about Howland potentially performing at the same level of Stansbury 2 years into a rebuild?

[DudyDawg]

Any word on Stapleton?

Howland said Xavian Stapleton is getting an MRI tomorrow. He heard a pop, was worried it was an ACL, but looks like it's mostly OK.

From bob c

[Dawg61]

Not sure why we've seemingly given up on datcher...

Herard...
16.0 mins/game 36.8 fg% 4.4 reb 0.3 blk 0.1 steal 1.6 pts

Datcher...
8.3 mins/game 40.0 fg%. 2.3 reb 0.8 blk 0.2 steal 1.0 pts

Seems pretty equal

I'm guessing Datcher has made a couple freshman mistakes off the court which is why you aren't seeing him on the court. Btw Kegler last 3 games 2-13 on 3's but still has 21 rebounds. Holman is 5-31 on 3's his career. Stretch 4's don't really help when they can't shoot and when you're already severely outmatched down low vs everyone. Herard would be as successful shooting 3's as Holman. Does that make Herard a stretch 4 too?

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Are my posts invisible on this board? I'm halfway serious

[smootness]

adding Ado and Brooks, Feazell next year will help. Where was Datcher last night? I must have missed it being talked about?

Definitely, and Holman may take the next step into an All-SEC player. Herard should be much improved next year.

And while I know you were focusing on the big men, we will add a freshman next year that should be immediately better than any freshman we've brought in the last two years. Nick Weatherspoon is the kind of freshman Kentucky brings in. He will help a ton.

[Dawg61]

Are my posts invisible on this board? I'm halfway serious

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/077/424/JCNID.jpg

[HoopsDawg]

Where was Datcher last night? I must have missed it being talked about?

We had to tighten up our rotation. Datcher and Eli were the casualties last night. Herard is ahead of Datcher and X is ahead of Eli.

[mparkerfd20]

No, that is not yet to be seen.

At State it damn sure is. I think he is, but he ain't proved shit yet.

[smootness]

At State it damn sure is. I think he is, but he ain't proved shit yet.

This makes no sense.