We Are Miserable On Special Teams

[ShotgunDawg]

Mullen has been to 7 straight bowl games, built a solid offensive system that, outside of QB & RB, he has trouble recruiting to, has turned over DCs almost every every year, fielded a defense this year that finished 110 nationally in total defense, & 98th in 1st downs given up.

However, I'm not sure that any of this is as frustrating as our special teams this season. The performance in that area of the game was down right pathetic, inept, & incompetent.

Here is where we ranked nationally by the numbers.

Punting: 104 with a 38 yard average. The national leader had a 47 yard average

Punt Returns: 114 with a 4 yard average. The national leader had a 25 yard average. All the top 30 were in double digit yard returns.

Opponent punt returns: 120 with a 14 yard average. The top 40 are all less than a 6 yard average.

Kick off returns: 68 with a 20 yard average. The top 40 is all above 22

Opponent kickoff return: 52 with a 20 yard average. Most of the top 20 is 17 yard or below

Field goal %: 119 nationally with 57%. The top 86 teams nationally all had over 70% made FGs.

I say all this to make the point that we talk about talent, needing to recruit better, get better recruiters, etc..... by when your special teams are this shitty, that's a coaching problem. Plain & simple. The special teams at Mississippi State are absolutely dreadful & there is no excuse for it. You don't have to beat Alabama out for kickers & punters. Absolute pathetic job of coaching this year. Over achieving my ass

[Reason2succeed]

Boy, I'm glad that recruits and their handlers don't read this site. We do a great job of tearing down our on program right before recruits visit. We do opposing coaches jobs for them.***

[FISHDAWG]

baseball will be here soon ... you're only running your blood pressure up shotgun. I get your point, I mean if Croom can find a kicker you would think that Dan could but I think by now it will remain an eternal mystery

[Ari Gold]

Mullen has been to 7 straight bowl games, built a solid offensive system that, outside of QB & RB, he has trouble recruiting to, has turned over DCs almost every every year, fielded a defense this year that finished 110 nationally in total defense, & 98th in 1st downs given up.

However, I'm not sure that any of this is as frustrating as our special teams this season. The performance in that area of the game was down right pathetic, inept, & incompetent.

Here is where we ranked nationally by the numbers.

Punting: 104 with a 38 yard average. The national leader had a 47 yard average

Punt Returns: 114 with a 4 yard average. The national leader had a 25 yard average. All the top 30 were in double digit yard returns.

Opponent punt returns: 120 with a 14 yard average. The top 40 are all less than a 6 yard average.

Kick off returns: 68 with a 20 yard average. The top 40 is all above 22

Opponent kickoff return: 52 with a 20 yard average. Most of the top 20 is 17 yard or below

Field goal %: 119 nationally with 57%. The top 86 teams nationally all had over 70% made FGs.

I say all this to make the point that we talk about talent, needing to recruit better, get better recruiters, etc..... by when your special teams are this shitty, that's a coaching problem. Plain & simple. The special teams at Mississippi State are absolutely dreadful & there is no excuse for it. You don't have to beat Alabama out for kickers & punters. Absolute pathetic job of coaching this year. Over achieving my ass

ST teams have to improve for sure.

Punt Logan Cooke is a future pro. Averaged 40 yards Per kick and had a down year. Kid has a monster leg.

[ShotgunDawg]

Boy, I'm glad that recruits and their handlers don't read this site. We do a great job of tearing down our on program right before recruits visit. We do opposing coaches jobs for them.***

Just means all these recruits should be able to come in and compete for playing time.

& FWIW, if we don't call out the program on non-obvious shortcomings then who will?

We are the share holders

[bulldawg28]

Boy, I'm glad that recruits and their handlers don't read this site. We do a great job of tearing down our on program right before recruits visit. We do opposing coaches jobs for them.***

Indeed. Some of these people have to be single, miserable, and depressed rolled into schizophrenia. It's a sad sad thing. Always of a negative

[ShotgunDawg]

Indeed. Some of these people have to be single, miserable, and depressed rolled into schizophrenia. It's a sad sad thing. Always of a negative

So you disagree with breaking down our football program? If so, then why do you post on a message board?

I'm not being negative, I'm just putting forth facts. Being negative is finding a pessimistic view on something that could go both ways.

In fact, I'm optimistic to see how much better we could be if we'd just clean up the part of the game that doesn't require Alabama talent.

I can't get mad that we can't score against Bama because they have vastly superior players. However, I can hold people accountable for this debacle.

[msstate7]

Not sure how good a stat punting avg is. What if most of your punts are from midfield? I also think a shorter, higher punt can be more beneficial when you punt to some of the SEC punt returners. Not sure how much Cooke's injury hurt our punting

Graves was such a disappointment this year. Hard to blame Mullen for not getting another kicker when graves was 15/18 on FGs last season.

Wasn't a fan of Ross returning punts. I think graham and gray should get a look next season. Graham looked like he had potential there his freshman year... hopefully he can field them better now. Gray was electric in juco returning punts, but had muff issues too.

I like random's idea of Mullen coaching qb's and hiring a ST coordinator. I'd look for one that's a good recruiter

[ShotgunDawg]

Not sure how good a stat punting avg is. What if most of your punts are from midfield? I also think a shorter, higher punt can be more beneficial when you punt to some of the SEC punt returners. Not sure how much Cooke's injury hurt our punting


I agree with this on face value, however, when we ranked 120th in punt return yardage allowed, it means something was terribly wrong.

If you punt it short, you should also get short returns. When you punt it long, you should get bigger returns. When you punt it short & they return it long, something is wrong.

I'm sure there are ways to explain this & it's probably better than it appears, but the stats are what they are.

How much better could we be next year if we were able to get in the top 60 in all these categories?

[lamont]

Boy, I'm glad that recruits and their handlers don't read this site. We do a great job of tearing down our on program right before recruits visit. We do opposing coaches jobs for them.***

This is a sports message board- where we discuss sports. In particular- Miss State sports. We were 6-7 this season- recruits understand everything wasnt cartoons and rainbows for us this season.

[lamont]

I'm not being negative, I'm just putting forth facts.

I've learned over the years State fans dont really care for facts too much- must be a state of Mississippi thing. OM is the same way

[lamont]

One positive in ST's- we have won 2 ballgames on blocked FG's the last 2 seasons.

[BrunswickDawg]

Not sure how good a stat punting avg is. What if most of your punts are from midfield? I also think a shorter, higher punt can be more beneficial when you punt to some of the SEC punt returners. Not sure how much Cooke's injury hurt our punting

Graves was such a disappointment this year. Hard to blame Mullen for not getting another kicker when graves was 15/18 on FGs last season.

Wasn't a fan of Ross returning punts. I think graham and gray should get a look next season. Graham looked like he had potential there his freshman year... hopefully he can field them better now. Gray was electric in juco returning punts, but had muff issues too.

I like random's idea of Mullen coaching qb's and hiring a ST coordinator. I'd look for one that's a good recruiter
That's what Shotgun seems to be forgetting - Graves and Cooke were considered to be sure things this year based on performance in '15. Both of them getting hurt cost that and skew the stats. And does 2 yards on kickoff or punt returns make a difference? Now, if we were 10 yards off we would have a legit bitch. I look more at TD and mistakes on return teams. Did we give up lots of long returns/TD? Did we muff a lot of returns, etc. By those metrics, I think we have improved significantly over 4-5 years ago.

And a big no o Smokey returning kicks. I always felt he was a blink away from losing every ball he tried to catch.

[msstate7]

And a big no o Smokey returning kicks. I always felt he was a blink away from losing every ball he tried to catch.

Haha maybe so... he was a freshman then though and he'll be a senior. We need someone back there that a coach has to worry about... punters can just kick it as far as they can with no fear lately

[ATTILLA THE DOG]

having mixon returning kicks full time will help in that department

[ShotgunDawg]

I want Mixon handling all returns.

He has Alabama speed & appears to me to have more burst than any other player on the roster.

He needs to touch the ball as often as possible & that includes returns.

[ShotgunDawg]

Let me remind you, in many ways we just won 6 games & went to a bowl game with about has bad a defense & special teams as we are capable of putting on the field.

If both just regress to the mean, we are a far better football team. Let that sink in

[Liverpooldawg]

Boy, I'm glad that recruits and their handlers don't read this site. We do a great job of tearing down our on program right before recruits visit. We do opposing coaches jobs for them.***

Yep. It makes you wonder sometimes.

[jumbo]

FG kicking was atrocious but Cooke getting hurt is what killed the punt and KO numbers.

[IMissJack]

I agree with this on face value, however, when we ranked 120th in punt return yardage allowed, it means something was terribly wrong.

I'm no punting expert, but it sounds like the hang time for our punts is not long enough for the team to get there to make the tackle. It's not just about the yds per punt.

Also, I would agree with you that something is way wrong overall when all phases of the special teams are near the bottom.

[SallyStansbury]

Yep. It makes you wonder sometimes.

It does make me wonder.....

Wonder why Coach Mullen refuses to address this? His answer will likely be to promote some GA so that he can chew this kid's ass on the sideline when we get the EXACT same results next year that we got this year and most of the prior years. It is a trend (this year was worse than most) and I commend Shotgun for backing it up with facts.

Wonder why Oline coach/recruiting hasn't been modified?

Wonder why we keep running off DC's?

There has been no admittance of these significant holes in our program, not that our coach has to admit anything to fans, but when we are defeated by the USA's, Kentucky's, etc.....these difficult questions become more pressing. I hope our coach makes some tough changes; however, I am not holding my breath?? Maybe our new AD can assist with some direction in this regard? I respect what our coach has done so spare me the "he is the winningest coach blah blah..." I get that. I just want to see improvement in these seemingly broken areas.

[Liverpooldawg]

It does make me wonder.....

Wonder why Coach Mullen refuses to address this? His answer will likely be to promote some GA so that he can chew this kid's ass on the sideline when we get the EXACT same results next year that we got this year and most of the prior years. It is a trend (this year was worse than most) and I commend Shotgun for backing it up with facts.

Wonder why Oline coach/recruiting hasn't been modified?

Wonder why we keep running off DC's?

There has been no admittance of these significant holes in our program, not that our coach has to admit anything to fans, but when we are defeated by the USA's, Kentucky's, etc.....these difficult questions become more pressing. I hope our coach makes some tough changes; however, I am not holding my breath?? Maybe our new AD can assist with some direction in this regard? I respect what our coach has done so spare me the "he is the winningest coach blah blah..." I get that. I just want to see improvement in these seemingly broken areas.
Yep, Rebel recruiting is in full swing. It happens every year like clockwork.

[Cooterpoot]

Both our kicker and punter were hurt this year. Logan was good before he had to stop. Hell, he was our MVP the first half of the season.

[HoopsDawg]

Both our kicker and punter were hurt this year. Logan was good before he had to stop. Hell, he was our MVP the first half of the season.

His stats show it's not just those guys. It's our personnel and schemes as well. It's been an issue ******* entire tenure.

[Really Clark?]

I agree with this on face value, however, when we ranked 120th in punt return yardage allowed, it means something was terribly wrong.

If you punt it short, you should also get short returns. When you punt it long, you should get bigger returns. When you punt it short & they return it long, something is wrong.

I'm sure there are ways to explain this & it's probably better than it appears, but the stats are what they are.

How much better could we be next year if we were able to get in the top 60 in all these categories?

I think you have to adjust that punt return stat for the fact we were 9th in the nation with only allowing team 9 return all year. That's a lot of fair catches and one return, that the refs missed a block in the back big time, that went 93 yards for a TD. If they get that call right then we would have had 8 returns for 40 yards, a 5 yard avg per return and would have put us 28th in the country. I really think that is a big skewing and misread of our punt coverage.

[Cooterpoot]

Kicker I agree on. Kick return I agree on. But punting hasn't been bad. And you can't just look at net avg. It's like total offense without scoring.

[msstate7]

I think you have to adjust that punt return stat for the fact we were 9th in the nation with only allowing team 9 return all year. That's a lot of fair catches and one return, that the refs missed a block in the back big time, that went 93 yards for a TD. If they get that call right then we would have had 8 returns for 40 yards, a 5 yard avg per return and would have put us 28th in the country. I really think that is a big skewing and misread of our punt coverage.

Nice research

[Dawgtini]

Let me remind you, in many ways we just won 6 games & went to a bowl game with about has bad a defense & special teams as we are capable of putting on the field.

If both just regress to the mean, we are a far better football team. Let that sink in
Exactly. As bad as we looked at times this year, we still didn't hit Tech and 10 level. The fact that we would be so down to lose to USA/UK but jump up to beat ATM/sculldrag OMU tells me that talent was there. Either they "didn't get it" on D most of the year or we had inexperienced players who were simply inconsistent.

[the59dawg]

[QUOTE=ShotgunDawg;680098]Mullen has been to 7 straight bowl games, built a solid offensive system that, outside of QB & RB, he has trouble recruiting to, has turned over DCs almost every every year, fielded a defense this year that finished 110 nationally in total defense, & 98th in 1st downs given up.

However, I'm not sure that any of this is as frustrating as our special teams this season. The performance in that area of the game was down right pathetic, inept, & incompetent.

Here is where we ranked nationally by the numbers.

Punting: 104 with a 38 yard average. The national leader had a 47 yard average

Punt Returns: 114 with a 4 yard average. The national leader had a 25 yard average. All the top 30 were in double digit yard returns.

Opponent punt returns: 120 with a 14 yard average. The top 40 are all less than a 6 yard average.

Kick off returns: 68 with a 20 yard average. The top 40 is all above 22

Opponent kickoff return: 52 with a 20 yard average. Most of the top 20 is 17 yard or below

Field goal %: 119 nationally with 57%. The top 86 teams nationally all had over 70% made FGs.

I say all this to make the point that we talk about talent, needing to recruit better, get better recruiters, etc..... by when your special teams are this shitty, that's a coaching problem. Plain & simple. The special teams at Mississippi State are absolutely dreadful & there is no excuse for it. You don't have to beat Alabama out for kickers & punters. Absolute pathetic job of coaching this year. Over achieving my ass[/Q

Something just doesn't look right about the punts and returns.
1- As far as punts, someone else has already mentioned that Cooke was hurt the last 4-5 games. He is an outstanding punter averaging well over 40 yds when he is not pooch punting. Sub punter was not very consistent, many short punts.
2- Punt returns. Ross fair caught a high % of punts so of course overall ave would be low.
3- Opp punt ret. With as many fair catches as it was with Cooke punting, it is hard to believe that opp returned for 1680 yds on the few that were returned. Yep, there was one all the way in the A&M game, but I don't recall more than just a very few 10-20 yd returns against us. No way there can be a 14 yd/punt ret against us.

[Reason2succeed]

I've learned over the years State fans dont really care for facts too much- must be a state of Mississippi thing. OM is the same way

And I've learned some people are not very good at reading comprehension. The point of my critique was RIGHT BEFORE RECRUITS VISIT.