OM investigation

[EliteLeaks]

a couple of in-state recruits who signed with an in-state school not named Mississippi State are the subject of a four-year high school transcript review by the NCAA.

There are a few things that we can take from the above:

1. A review of this nature could mean that high school transcripts exist that don't match what the signing NCAA member institution submitted to gain a signee's eligibility to participate in collegiate athletics.
2. The on-field participation of an athlete who is not eligible results in vacated games when NCAA sanctions are levied.
3. The OM football program is still under scrutiny subsequent to OM's receipt of their 2nd NOA. This is going to be a bad one when the NCAA hammer finally falls in Oxford, and it doesn't have to be over when the Public Infractions Decision is released this summer. If won't stop, the NCAA won't stop either.

[JoseBrown]

I like this new poster. Read less, post more. Oh, and Happy New Year ED.

[Token Bammer]

Strong first post. Burn Ole Piss to the ground!

[Bully13]

This could end up being thread of the day. Nice way to start the year. I say we nominate this as a candidate for best 1st post ever.

Nice job leaks.

[starkvegasdawg]

It is literally going to take the death penalty for the entire athletic department to stop them from cheating. If the NCAA only leaves womens' disc golf then every booster will go all in trying to make sure they win at all costs there.

[Bully13]

I've been told by a supposed insider that it has drug on for so long because new shit keeps popping up.

[Tripp McNeely]

Enitobay Onesjay?

[defiantdog]

There's a reason why 4* athletes shut down recruitment before their junior season.

[Tripp McNeely]

Explain the vacating process to the uniformed...do you have to vacate wins AND LOSSES said player played in...or are you stuck with the losses?

[WSOPdawg]

I think we can be pretty much assured that with the mass exodus of basically the entire TCUN coaching staff (except Freeze), in the middle of recruiting season no less, that they're in possession of the 2nd NOA and as someone posted earlier, given Barney's departure around December 8th, that NOA probably arrived sometime during the 1st week of December 2016.

Losing Barney, Kiffin, Womack, Heard, Batoon, et al tells a powerful story that most TCUN backers are now coming to realize -- that they ARE 17'd!!! Here's hoping it's "SMU-style!"

[Coursesuper]

Enitobay Onesjay?

Strange things are afoot in Waybo.

[1bigdawg]

Explain the vacating process to the uniformed...do you have to vacate wins AND LOSSES said player played in...or are you stuck with the losses?

You vacate the wins, but get to keep the losses.;)

[ShotgunDawg]

Whelp, add another year and another 50s recruiting class to this ordeal. Won't be over for a long time.

As stated above, the NCAA has a real conundrum here. What do you do with these guys?

It's one thing to punish a school for a mistake like the Redmond ordeal. Then hand down sanctions, someone gets fired, and you move on. However, what do you do with a crime family? What do you do with an establishment who gains their significance by ill gotten gains? What do you do with an institution who doesn't know how and has no interest in doing things differently?

Big decisions ahead for the NCAA. I'd advise them to take as much time as needed to figure this out. Don't rush a decision only to regret it in the future. Do your due deligence and make sure every i is dotted and T is crossed.

[thf24]

Whelp, add another year and another 50s recruiting class to this ordeal. Won't be over for a long time.

As stated above, the NCAA has a real conundrum here. What do you do with these guys?

It's one thing to punish a school for a mistake like the Redmond ordeal. Then hand down sanctions, someone gets fired, and you move on. However, what do you do with a crime family? What do you do with an establishment who gains their significance by ill gotten gains? What do you do with an institution who doesn't know how and has no interest in doing things differently?

Big decisions ahead for the NCAA. I'd advise them to take as much time as needed to figure this out. Don't rush a decision only to regret it in the future. Do your due deligence and make sure every i is dotted and T is crossed.

If I were them, I'd consider going pretty light on the most immediate sanctions, except put them on probation for 5+ years and set them up for repeat offender status. This thing needs to be broken up for the sake of what little integrity college football has, and I don't think anything short of the death penalty will truly do it.

[Bully13]

I met a guy the day of the A&M who told me something was going to break the next week about the 2nd letter/additional stuff and it did. He also said their hoops program is in trouble too. Just saying.

[Corn Bread]

It is literally going to take the death penalty for the entire athletic department to stop them from cheating. If the NCAA only leaves womens' disc golf then every booster will go all in trying to make sure they win at all costs there.

Vegas, Mississippi State had a men's disc golf team that won the National Championship several years ago. It was announced during a football game. Wanted shirts made.

[Jack Lambert]

Explain the vacating process to the uniformed...do you have to vacate wins AND LOSSES said player played in...or are you stuck with the losses?

That's the difference between Vacate and forfeit.

[WSOPdawg]

Whelp, add another year and another 50s recruiting class to this ordeal. Won't be over for a long time.

As stated above, the NCAA has a real conundrum here. What do you do with these guys?

It's one thing to punish a school for a mistake like the Redmond ordeal. Then hand down sanctions, someone gets fired, and you move on. However, what do you do with a crime family? What do you do with an establishment who gains their significance by ill gotten gains? What do you do with an institution who doesn't know how and has no interest in doing things differently?

Big decisions ahead for the NCAA. I'd advise them to take as much time as needed to figure this out. Don't rush a decision only to regret it in the future. Do your due deligence and make sure every i is dotted and T is crossed.

Agree Shotgun.

1) Waynesboro ACT academic fraud (circa 2010 or so)
2) Library shenanigans yielding severely illegal recruiting inducements (hooter ho's, red back packs with cash, etc)
3) Payment of players confirmed on national television by prominent athletes (Tunsil)
4) Loaner cars (repeatedly)
5) Head coach at booster house with recruits in-tow (numerous occasions)
6) alleged housing for player family members (repeatedly)
7) burner phones (with potential coaching text messages & calls)
8) yada yada yada

Again, where (and when) does it end? Only the ncaa knows.

[Tripp McNeely]

That's the difference between Vacate and forfeit.

I thought, with a forfeit, wins are actually reversed...i.e. They'd vacate the 14' EB, and it would just show as no one won that game in the official NCAA record books...but, if they forefeitted, the outcome would reverse, and the official record books would show an MSU win?

[Reason2succeed]

a couple of in-state recruits who signed with an in-state school not named Mississippi State are the subject of a four-year high school transcript review by the NCAA.

There are a few things that we can take from the above:

1. A review of this nature could mean that high school transcripts exist that don't match what the signing NCAA member institution submitted to gain a signee's eligibility to participate in collegiate athletics.
2. The on-field participation of an athlete who is not eligible results in vacated games when NCAA sanctions are levied.
3. The OM football program is still under scrutiny subsequent to OM's receipt of their 2nd NOA. This is going to be a bad one when the NCAA hammer finally falls in Oxford, and it doesn't have to be over when the Public Infractions Decision is released this summer. If won't stop, the NCAA won't stop either.


The problem for OM is that this shows intent at an institutional level. OM can't blame rouge boosters or undisciplined players for this. No. There was a system of outright lawlessness within that program and the only way to ensure it doesn't happen again at OM or anywhere else will be to punish them severely. If not, it's the wild Wild West as Saban said.

[InTheIttaBenaHotSun]

The NCAA can have those wins vacated but in my mind I'll always look at them as Forfeited = wins for MSU and every other team they played.

[preachermatt83]

I thought, with a forfeit, wins are actually reversed...i.e. They'd vacate the 14' EB, and it would just show as no one won that game in the official NCAA record books...but, if they forefeitted, the outcome would reverse, and the official record books would show an MSU win?

Correct

[WSOPdawg]

The problem for OM is that this shows intent at an institutional level. OM can't blame rouge boosters or undisciplined players for this. No. There was a system of outright lawlessness within that program and the only way to ensure it doesn't happen again at OM or anywhere else will be to punish them severely. If not, it's the wild Wild West as Saban said.

TCUN's attempt to "control" the narrative or message and to downplay the seriousness from start to finish through this ENTIRE process will also work against them imo. They have shown zero remorse and their remedial corrective action has been anemic at best.

Hopefully the ncaa will also feel the need to protect the student-athlete (existing and prospective) from a non-truthful leadership group (i.e., those that would lie to a recruit in order to obtain a favorable decision come signing day).

[Political Hack]

Here's some facts:

1) Anyone named in the NOA will be punished. & how does the NCAA punish coaches? Show Cause. The length of the show cause is the only thing in question.

2) There is a complete and utter loss of institutional control here. There is no avoiding that. Across multiple sports, across multiple staffs, involving several boosters, involving several coaches, involving several players. #TheNetwork

3) This will continue to drag on and on and on. The NCAA has to be in awe at the level and number of violations. Some will be "aggravated" and some won't be. Players and coaches will be punished for every violation. Then the program punishment comes. This is going to hit them on so many levels it's going to take a long, long time to recover. Current players... Past wins... Current coaches... Future scholarships... Bowl practices... Visits... And it'll be known as the biggest coaching graveyard in the SEC.

[msstate7]

Curious... could kiffin and the other coaches that left OM somewhat pin their involvement on freeze? Not sure the NCAA would even care; but if the NCAA is indeed out to get freeze, immunity to the assistants seems like a great way to accomplish it

[Todd4State]

Curious... could kiffin and the other coaches that left OM somewhat pin their involvement on freeze? Not sure the NCAA would even care; but if the NCAA is indeed out to get freeze, immunity to the assistants seems like a great way to accomplish it

Like someone on here told me the other day- they are after the Network. Not so much Freeze. I do think immunity is a good reward in exchange for information.

[Todd4State]

Here's some facts:

1) Anyone named in the NOA will be punished. & how does the NCAA punish coaches? Show Cause. The length of the show cause is the only thing in question.

2) There is a complete and utter loss of institutional control here. There is no avoiding that. Across multiple sports, across multiple staffs, involving several boosters, involving several coaches, involving several players. #TheNetwork

3) This will continue to drag on and on and on. The NCAA has to be in awe at the level and number of violations. Some will be "aggravated" and some won't be. Players and coaches will be punished for every violation. Then the program punishment comes. This is going to hit them on so many levels it's going to take a long, long time to recover. Current players... Past wins... Current coaches... Future scholarships... Bowl practices... Visits... And it'll be known as the biggest coaching graveyard in the SEC.

It's shocking to me that the 2016 class for them could be even dirtier and shadier than the 2013 class. They had good seasons in 2014 and 2015 and they thought that they could get away with anything and now they are about to hang themselves.

How long does repeat violator status last? That's the other thing- even when their probation is over they can't just go back into cheating like they are because the NCAA is going to be watching them like a hawk.

I still think it's going to come down to the NCAA threatening the death penalty and then giving their University leadership a chance to correct things and if they don't they'll go from there.

[msstate7]

Like someone on here told me the other day- they are after the Network. Not so much Freeze. I do think immunity is a good reward in exchange for information.

Then sub "OM network" in for "freeze"...

NCAA -- hey kiffin, if you tell us about the organization of the boosters to land recruits at OM, we'll suspend you 2-3 games for your violations. If you don't cooperate, you'll get a 3-year show cause. You wanna coach with your brother or what?

[blacklistedbully]

I think we can be pretty much assured that with the mass exodus of basically the entire TCUN coaching staff (except Freeze), in the middle of recruiting season no less, that they're in possession of the 2nd NOA and as someone posted earlier, given Barney's departure around December 8th, that NOA probably arrived sometime during the 1st week of December 2016.

Losing Barney, Kiffin, Womack, Heard, Batoon, et al tells a powerful story that most TCUN backers are now coming to realize -- that they ARE 17'd!!! Here's hoping it's "SMU-style!"

But don't you know...those coaches were let go by UNM, not due to cheating, rather because they have a new standard in Oxford, and these guys didn't meet it, so heads had to roll. They were fired and replaced by better coaches because losing is not tolerated in Oxford....not even for 1 year. Oh, and they also needed to upgrade their recruiting. The staff under Freeze has not been able to recruit at a level they are accustomed to.*****

Seriously, those morons really believe the above. Can a half-way intelligent person really be that delusional, or does one have to be a certain amount of stupid as well?

[Todd4State]

But don't you know...those coaches were let go by UNM, not due to cheating, rather because they have a new standard in Oxford, and these guys didn't meet it, so heads had to roll. They were fired and replaced by better coaches because losing is not tolerated in Oxford....not even for 1 year. Oh, and they also needed to upgrade their recruiting. The staff under Freeze has not been able to recruit at a level they are accustomed to.*****

Seriously, those morons really believe the above. Can a half-way intelligent person really be that delusional, or does one have to be a certain amount of stupid as well?

It's called denial. They have been hoping that all of this was an EliteDawgs conspiracy until they now know that there is indeed an investigation going on. At this point they are simply hoping it's not as bad as it could be.

[Todd4State]

Then sub "OM network" in for "freeze"...

NCAA -- hey kiffin, if you tell us about the organization of the boosters to land recruits at OM, we'll suspend you 2-3 games for your violations. If you don't cooperate, you'll get a 3-year show cause. You wanna coach with your brother or what?

IF Freeze is coaching there next year and they have a bad year it could get REALLY interesting. I'm hoping that Archie is able to get their hearing delayed and that it plays out as I expect it to if that happens.

[basedog]

IF Freeze is coaching there next year and they have a bad year it could get REALLY interesting. I'm hoping that Archie is able to get their hearing delayed and that it plays out as I expect it to if that happens.

NCAA > Archie

[Bully13]

But don't you know...those coaches were let go by UNM, not due to cheating, rather because they have a new standard in Oxford, and these guys didn't meet it, so heads had to roll. They were fired and replaced by better coaches because losing is not tolerated in Oxford....not even for 1 year. Oh, and they also needed to upgrade their recruiting. The staff under Freeze has not been able to recruit at a level they are accustomed to.*****

Seriously, those morons really believe the above. Can a half-way intelligent person really be that delusional, or does one have to be a certain amount of stupid as well?

This is true. Go to nafoom and you'll see several threads that will confirm this. There's one bout Yancy warning nafoom that the NCAA is reading nafoom too. Hilarious.

[Jack Lambert]

I thought, with a forfeit, wins are actually reversed...i.e. They'd vacate the 14' EB, and it would just show as no one won that game in the official NCAA record books...but, if they forefeitted, the outcome would reverse, and the official record books would show an MSU win?

In the 70's we had to forfeit games two of which was Southern. They claimed victory and we took a lose due to the forfeit. A few years ago Bama had to vacate wins. The wins away from Bama but the loses stayed with the other schools.

[MabenMaroon]

Like someone on here told me the other day- they are after the Network. Not so much Freeze. I do think immunity is a good reward in exchange for information.

So, in essence, the Rgt. Rev. Bucky Beaver is The Network's "tool"

[Todd4State]

So, in essence, the Rgt. Rev. Bucky Beaver is The Network's "tool"

There is no question that Freeze is part- and a very integral part of the Network. He has been mentioned as meeting players at the hotel during OV weekends and then leaving the room before an Ole Miss booster reveals Ole Miss's "plan" which includes improper benefits.

From what I understand the coaching staff or a representative from the coaching staff- probably used to be Barney but it could have been others- met with someone from the Network to inform them of what players Ole Miss "wanted" so that they could get information on how to make connections with their "champion"- the down and out uncle, estranged Dad, Mother, etc. that they could use to take advantage of to get to the player and then offer benefits to that "champion" if Ole Miss landed the player.

[Schultzy]

But don't you know...those coaches were let go by UNM, not due to cheating, rather because they have a new standard in Oxford, and these guys didn't meet it, so heads had to roll. They were fired and replaced by better coaches because losing is not tolerated in Oxford....not even for 1 year. Oh, and they also needed to upgrade their recruiting. The staff under Freeze has not been able to recruit at a level they are accustomed to.*****

Seriously, those morons really believe the above. Can a half-way intelligent person really be that delusional, or does one have to be a certain amount of stupid as well?

You just said what everybody is thinking about them.

[32 Dive]

Example, of difference in Vacate, and Forfeit. See if I have this right...

Cheating team goes 10-0.

Vacating wins, makes team have a record of 0-0. The teams they beat, still have the losses, as well.

Forfeiting Wins, makes team have a record of 0-10. The teams they beat, have their losses changed to wins.

[Reason2succeed]

Could the NCAA force them to forfeit instead of just vacating wins? It seems to me that vacating would apply to when "mistakes are made" that allowed an ineligible player to play. But with OM they were intentionally cheating so forfeitures seems like it would be more appropriate.

[Todd4State]

Could the NCAA force them to forfeit instead of just vacating wins? It seems to me that vacating would apply to when "mistakes are made" that allowed an ineligible player to play. But with OM they were intentionally cheating so forfeitures seems like it would be more appropriate.

I think the NCAA stopped the forfeits because it was skewing records- see MSU/USM in football.

[Dawgtini]

But don't you know...those coaches were let go by UNM, not due to cheating, rather because they have a new standard in Oxford, and these guys didn't meet it, so heads had to roll. They were fired and replaced by better coaches because losing is not tolerated in Oxford....not even for 1 year. Oh, and they also needed to upgrade their recruiting. The staff under Freeze has not been able to recruit at a level they are accustomed to.*****

Seriously, those morons really believe the above. Can a half-way intelligent person really be that delusional, or does one have to be a certain amount of stupid as well?
It is positively mind googling.

[Indndawg]

Would someone explain how the NCAA views repeat violations. We know what happened to Southern Methodist. Now would the NCAA view the cheating while the NCAA was STILL in town as repeat offender and deal OM a SMU sentence?

[Mutt the Hoople]

Forfeits come when you use an ineligible player. I can see BAMMER wanting those two om losses back.

[Token Bammer]

Forfeits come when you use an ineligible player. I can see BAMMER wanting those two om losses back.

Nah. Bammer just wants them hammered. OM took the recruiting game to level$ never seen before. Not even in west Georgia.

[Schultzy]

Nah. Bammer just wants them hammered. OM took the recruiting game to level$ never seen before. Not even in west Georgia.

I'll take Albert Means for $200,000, Alex.

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

If the NCAA reads nafoom, then they must have EliteDawgs as their homepage.

[Token Bammer]

I'll take Albert Means for $200,000, Alex.

Never said BAMA was never accused of cheating, only that OM took it to new levels.

[Token Bammer]

I'll take Albert Means for $200,000, Alex.

Oh, and Ronnie Cottrell is the answer to your Daily Double.

[Schultzy]

I would think 200 Gr twenty years ago is taking it to a new level.

Eta: however, this could be naivete on my part

[Really Clark?]

Oh, and Ronnie Cottrell is the answer to your Daily Double.

I think the judges would also take Logan Young as the correct answer as well.

Does anyone else find it interesting that Memphis boosters will play an intergtal part bith Bama's past probation and now UNM demise. That's a special bunch of people

[ScoobaDawg]

Forfeits come when you use an ineligible player. I can see BAMMER wanting those two om losses back.


Incorrect.The NCAA no longer does forfeits. Only vacates win.

[Token Bammer]

I think the judges would also take Logan Young as the correct answer as well.

Does anyone else find it interesting that Memphis boosters will play an intergtal part bith Bama's past probation and now UNM demise. That's a special bunch of people

Poor Logan. That fall UP the stairs really did him.

[MaroonFlounder]

I would say a certain DB from USP would be on the docket for academic review, if not already reviewed. His initials are TC.

[Boodawg]

Incorrect.The NCAA no longer does forfeits. Only vacates win.

Jmho. If they are no longer going to forfeit wins they should have to go all the way back to the beginning to be consistent across the board.

[RocketDawg]

I'll take Albert Means for $200,000, Alex.

That'd be about $300K with inflation.

[StatesboroBlues]

Would someone explain how the NCAA views repeat violations. We know what happened to Southern Methodist. Now would the NCAA view the cheating while the NCAA was STILL in town as repeat offender and deal OM a SMU sentence?

You will not see repeat offender...but the thinking is that the NCAA will not be kind about violations during the investigations.

[AlSwearengen]

I would say a certain DB from USP would be on the docket for academic review, if not already reviewed. His initials are TC.

His story was always a head scratcher. We were hearing that he likely wouldn't qualify and then he didn't pass his h.s. exit exam. And didn't he make the statement when asked about his commitment to olemiss that "I would be able to qualify at olemiss."?