Donald Gray

[RiverCityDawg]

Since Donald Gray graduated, any concern over him doing like Beniquez Brown and just moving on and trying for the NFL?

Whether this is the "right" decision or not is a separate issue, I'm curious as to whether IYOK or anyone else knows if we are safe with him staying.

[missouridawg]

Donald has publicly stated that he is coming back. Whether or not he commits to that, is to be seen. We desperately need him next year though, as he has some of the best hands we've ever seen at State.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Donald will be back.

[SDDawg]

Sounds like he is staying. The only upside of De'Runnya leaving early was the example it set for what not to do. And our coaches can point to easily. No one thought that De'Runnya would end up completely out of football, but it can happen to anyone that's not a top prospect.

[Percho]

If Wilson were on the Vikings roster would he have played more than - ?

[Reason2succeed]

If Wilson were on the Vikings roster would he have played more than - ?

If the Vikings had invested the money in bear that they did in a certain other WR he would still be there. I doubt he would be playing or someone would have picked him up as a FA.

[Todd4State]

It's sad that the Vikings have a WR that played in Germany that knows more pass routes than Treadwell.

[Jack Lambert]

He has a shot of being really good and increasing his draft status.

[Todd4State]

He has a shot of being really good and increasing his draft status.

He needs to show that he can return kicks because his size is going to be an issue. The more things he can do the more value he has.

[YoungB]

http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-20-2016/dJxNr0.gif

[ShotgunDawg]

He has a shot of being really good and increasing his draft status.

I want Keith Mixon handeling all things return related. #HR

[MafiaDawg]

Turns out It looks like Bennie made a mistake too but it doesn't get talked about near as much as Wilson.

[Todd4State]

Turns out It looks like Bennie made a mistake too but it doesn't get talked about near as much as Wilson.

Josh for that matter as well. Lesson- if you are not a sure fire first or second round pick go back to school.

[InTheIttaBenaHotSun]

I want Keith Mixon handeling all things return related. #HR

^^^^^No question about it...this right here.

[ShotgunDawg]

^^^^^No question about it...this right here.

Yeah, I just feel like Mixon is the first world class speed offensive player we've had since Mullen has been here. He's also the closest thing we've had to Percy Harvin since Mullen has been here. I'm genuinely excited about the potential of his role in this offense next year.

He's basically a bigger, stronger, faster Hollloway with better receiving ability. If used correctly, due to our inside running game and his ability to stretch the edge, I think there's a real chance he turns into s boaderline All SEC player next year.

[msbulldog]

Yeah, I just feel like Mixon is the first world class speed offensive player we've had since Mullen has been here. He's also the closest thing we've had to Percy Harvin since Mullen has been here. I'm genuinely excited about the potential of his role in this offense next year.

He's basically a bigger, stronger, faster Hollloway with better receiving ability. If used correctly, due to our inside running game and his ability to stretch the edge, I think there's a real chance he turns into s boaderline All SEC player next year.

Hope your right Gun, he sure has the potential.

[gravedigger]

Yeah, I just feel like Mixon is the first world class speed offensive player we've had since Mullen has been here. He's also the closest thing we've had to Percy Harvin since Mullen has been here. I'm genuinely excited about the potential of his role in this offense next year.

He's basically a bigger, stronger, faster Hollloway with better receiving ability. If used correctly, due to our inside running game and his ability to stretch the edge, I think there's a real chance he turns into s boaderline All SEC player next year.

That settles it. Put him at tailback

[Political Hack]

If the Vikings had invested the money in bear that they did in a certain other WR he would still be there. I doubt he would be playing or someone would have picked him up as a FA.

Yeah, barring something crazy where he gets picked up, I won a bet saying he wouldn't catch a pass in the NFL this year. Hate it for him. Had he come back he would've had a chance to work on some things, but I'm not sure he's much of a hard worker regardless. Had he come back and worked on his speed, catching the ball with his hands away from his body, and high-pointing the ball he could've been a stud going into the NFL this year.

[thf24]

He needs to show that he can return kicks because his size is going to be an issue. The more things he can do the more value he has.

Being a standout kick returner would increase his stock, but probably not a must. He's already drawn comparisons to 5'9" Steve Smith who's still playing in the NFL at 37, then guys like Kendall Wright for the Titans (5'10", average speed) show good route running and hands alone can overcome size disadvantage even in the present day.

[thf24]

Turns out It looks like Bennie made a mistake too but it doesn't get talked about near as much as Wilson.

The big difference is that Beni had his degree while Bear did not.

[Todd4State]

Being a standout kick returner would increase his stock, but probably not a must. He's already drawn comparisons to 5'9" Steve Smith who's still playing in the NFL at 37, then guys like Kendall Wright for the Titans (5'10", average speed) show good route running and hands alone can overcome size disadvantage even in the present day.

I like Gray but I don't think he is in their realm as a player. He struggled against corners that were bigger than him this year and that Egg Bowl clip to me shows how he is best utilized- on screens and in space.



In SEC games minus Arkansas which I took out because he was matched up with a cornerback who was similar in size Gray had 16 receptions for an average of 17 YPC and 2 TD's.

[mcain31]

Gray was an All-American Returner at Co-Lin

[RiverCityDawg]

I like Gray but I don't think he is in their realm as a player. He struggled against corners that were bigger than him this year and that Egg Bowl clip to me shows how he is best utilized- on screens and in space.



In SEC games minus Arkansas which I took out because he was matched up with a cornerback who was similar in size Gray had 16 receptions for an average of 17 YPC and 2 TD's.

Did you just look at the stats or did you do in depth film study on him and his match ups? Because stats don't always tell the story on matchups out on the edge. For example, against LSU he beat his man deep for easy touchdowns twice but Fitz didn't see him. Against ole miss our game plan was run heavy. Against Alabama Fitz was under duress so much that it's hard to evaluate any matchups on offense outside of our OL getting mashed.

Maybe you're right, but I don't think our offense was consistent enough in the other areas to evaluate whether Gray struggled against bigger corners unless your telling me you knew the routes/reads and specifically watched him and his matchups.

[smootness]

Gray's at his best on the outside.

[lamont]

Gray is not a top 15 SEC WR. He will be solid next year- but nothing like Ross and Bear have been.

We are lacking at WR for 2017. Maybe 11th or 12th best group in the SEC for 2017

[smootness]

Gray is not a top 15 SEC WR. He will be solid next year- but nothing like Ross and Bear have been.

We are lacking at WR for 2017. Maybe 11th or 12th best group in the SEC for 2017

I completely disagree. Name 15 better for next year.

[Political Hack]

Gray will be one of the most prolific deep threats in America next season. He's a 9-route guy. Send him deep every time we get one on one on the outside.

[Really Clark?]

Gray is not a top 15 SEC WR. He will be solid next year- but nothing like Ross and Bear have been.

We are lacking at WR for 2017. Maybe 11th or 12th best group in the SEC for 2017

He was 10th in yards, 12th in yards per game, 13th in TD and 5th in avg yards per catch this year.

[Todd4State]

Did you just look at the stats or did you do in depth film study on him and his match ups? Because stats don't always tell the story on matchups out on the edge. For example, against LSU he beat his man deep for easy touchdowns twice but Fitz didn't see him. Against ole miss our game plan was run heavy. Against Alabama Fitz was under duress so much that it's hard to evaluate any matchups on offense outside of our OL getting mashed.

Maybe you're right, but I don't think our offense was consistent enough in the other areas to evaluate whether Gray struggled against bigger corners unless your telling me you knew the routes/reads and specifically watched him and his matchups.

Stats and also watching our games. I wouldn't consider that in depth. LOL. But your comment about Fitz not seeing him against LSU is exactly my point. I can definitively tell you that based on the stats and going to the games that most of Gray's damage came against our non power five opponents except for Arkansas. Because I was at the Arkansas game I can tell you that the corner matched up against Gray was also a small corner.

[Political Hack]

He was 10th in yards, 12th in yards per game, 13th in TD and 5th in avg yards per catch this year.

He'll finish higher than that in yards per catch next season. Our power run game with Fitz and AW is going to open up that outside match up big time.

Outside of Bama and LSU, there's not many CB's in the sec that'll consistently stick with Gray.

[Todd4State]

Gray will be one of the most prolific deep threats in America next season. He's a 9-route guy. Send him deep every time we get one on one on the outside.

Yes but then it's a matter of seeing him.

[Commercecomet24]

He'll finish higher than that in yards per catch next season. Our power run game with Fitz and AW is going to open up that outside match up big time.

Outside of Bama and LSU, there's not many CB's in the sec that'll consistently stick with Gray.

This all day!

[thf24]

Yes but then it's a matter of seeing him.

Are you saying he's hard to see because of his height? It's not like he's barely over 5'. Unless there's a corner out there who's 6'2" and can stick to him like a literal shadow (there's not), a few inches aren't going to make a difference in visibility down the field.

[BB30]

Gray had several games where he flat out beat his man and we just overshot him. Happened early in the BYU game as well. He will be a solid player for us next year and has a very very good work ethic. He has been a great role model for our young receivers. I think and hope he has a great season next year because he has been all DAWG and busts his butt everyday. And as for Derunnya his speed killed him but he was also still unbelievably raw. As stated earlier in the thread The guy never learned to use his hands and go up and high point a ball. I really think had he shown the ability to do that more he still would have got a shot. I seriously cannot remember ever seeing him use his hands especially down near the endzone. He was a solid receiver for us and probably helped just as much on the edge blocking in the run game as he did as a receiver.

For guys in the know, question, at 6'4" 225 could he not have put on some weight and try to play TE? Engram is only 6'3" 235. Now obviously, Engram is much more polished as a receiver but I would argue that he was not much of a better blocker than Wilson.

[smootness]

Stats and also watching our games. I wouldn't consider that in depth. LOL. But your comment about Fitz not seeing him against LSU is exactly my point. I can definitively tell you that based on the stats and going to the games that most of Gray's damage came against our non power five opponents except for Arkansas. Because I was at the Arkansas game I can tell you that the corner matched up against Gray was also a small corner.

He was easily our most productive WR against Bama and was also productive against LSU.

[RiverCityDawg]

Stats and also watching our games. I wouldn't consider that in depth. LOL. But your comment about Fitz not seeing him against LSU is exactly my point. I can definitively tell you that based on the stats and going to the games that most of Gray's damage came against our non power five opponents except for Arkansas. Because I was at the Arkansas game I can tell you that the corner matched up against Gray was also a small corner.

No, my point is your stats do not prove your point that Gray struggled against bigger corners. The QB missing a read, not throwing the ball or being under duress have nothing to do with Gray. He did a lot of damage on short passes and screens because those are generally easier passes for a developing QB and require less time for the OL to block.

[Ari Gold]

He'll finish higher than that in yards per catch next season. Our power run game with Fitz and AW is going to open up that outside match up big time.

Outside of Bama and LSU, there's not many CB's in the sec that'll consistently stick with Gray.


Ageee..

[lamont]

He was 10th in yards, 12th in yards per game, 13th in TD and 5th in avg yards per catch this year.

Gray won't have the luxury of benefiting from playing with one of the SEC's top WR's next season

[msstate7]

He was easily our most productive WR against Bama and was also productive against LSU.

Vs lsu, fitz overthrew gray twice on certain TDs. Vs bama, gray dropped a huge gain. He still had good games vs both, but could've had huge games. The important thing is he was able to get open vs bama and lsu, so he has enough talent

[msstate7]

Gray won't have the luxury of benefiting from playing with one of the SEC's top WR's next season

He'll have the benefit of defenses having to gameplan to stop fitz and aeris on the ground.

[Covercorner2]

Gray won't have the luxury of benefiting from playing with one of the SEC's top WR's next season

Yea, because he will be one of the SEC's top WRs next season.

[lamont]

I completely disagree. Name 15 better for next year.

There are the obvious ones like Kirk, Ridley, Moore, Stewart, McKenzie, Samuel, Callaway, Mason....then he can fit in somewhere in the middle of the 2nd tier depending on which JR's declare and which highly touted freshmen grow up

[BB30]

Vs lsu, fitz overthrew gray twice on certain TDs. Vs bama, gray dropped a huge gain. He still had good games vs both, but could've had huge games. The important thing is he was able to get open vs bama and lsu, so he has enough talent

Beating Bama next year is a pipe dream. We will have a shot against LSU. Gray could have a very solid season if our OL holds up. Our season will be decided on how well our OL plays and if our D can take a step forward or about 20 steps forward. If our OL holds up Gray probably has a very good year. If they don't we will be an average team at best.

[msstate7]

Beating Bama next year is a pipe dream. We will have a shot against LSU. Gray could have a very solid season if our OL holds up. Our season will be decided on how well our OL plays and if our D can take a step forward or about 20 steps forward. If our OL holds up Gray probably has a very good year. If they don't we will be an average team at best.

Not sure how you thought I was saying we could beat bama. My point was if Gray can get open vs bama and lsu, he can get open vs anyone.

[lamont]

Yea, because he will be one of the SEC's top WRs next season.

He was 18th in SEC in receptions- with only 3 Sr's above him. Now a couple of JR's could declare- but Gray won't be a top 10 returning WR in receptions- and there were some really talented Freshmen this past year plus more coming into the league.

Gray is in no way, shape, or form a Top 10 SEC WR

[Really Clark?]

Gray won't have the luxury of benefiting from playing with one of the SEC's top WR's next season

You said Gray wasn't a top 15 receiver in the SEC. You were wrong. Period. Don't pass go. Wrong. Even with us running the ball more this year he was in top 15. Barring injury he will be next year as well.

[BB30]

According to the SEC website he was 5th in yard per catch and 8th in TDs. Receptions doesn't equal production IMO. He has a legitimate shot to finish in the top 10 in several categories. Possibly not in receptions but I don't think that is the end all be all stat for receivers. I would rather see yds and TDs over a bunch of catches.

[Covercorner2]

He was 18th in SEC in receptions- with only 3 Sr's above him. Now a couple of JR's could declare- but Gray won't be a top 10 returning WR in receptions- and there were some really talented Freshmen this past year plus more coming into the league.

Gray is in no way, shape, or form a Top 10 SEC WR

So he's not going to get better, have more targets/receptions, etc. as he slides into the feature WR role? Interesting.

Literally every guy in the SEC above him in yards was the #1, feature WR on his team.

[lamont]

The SEC is going to be loaded at WR and QB next year after a transition year in 2016

Only 7 of the top 27 pass catchers In the SEC were Sr's and plenty of Freshmen played

QB's like Eason, Lock, Allen, Hurts, Bentley, plus Auburn's transfer are going to make the SEC an offensive league next year. Hell, even Kentucky and Vandy return their QB's. 10 of the SEC's top 13 passers return- plus Auburn gets a damn good transfer

[dawgday166]

I believe he'll be a better than top 10 sec receiver next year. Some of his lack of production is Fitz still growing into his passing role IMO.

[msstate7]

The SEC is going to be loaded at WR and QB next year after a transition year in 2016

Only 7 of the top 27 pass catchers In the SEC were Sr's and plenty of Freshmen played

QB's like Eason, Lock, Allen, Hurts, Bentley, plus Auburn's transfer are going to make the SEC an offensive league next year. Hell, even Kentucky and Vandy return their QB's. 10 of the SEC's top 13 passers return- plus Auburn gets a damn good transfer

And we return the sec's total yardage leader who will probably do it again with his passing improvement

[Covercorner2]

And we return the sec's total yardage leader who will probably do it again with his passing improvement

SEC's total yardage leader at QB, and a top 6 returning WR in yards, yet they will both decrease in production as they gain more experience and a larger role. Makes sense.

[lamont]

You said Gray wasn't a top 15 receiver in the SEC. You were wrong. Period. Don't pass go. Wrong. Even with us running the ball more this year he was in top 15. Barring injury he will be next year as well.

Wrong period??? The guy was 18th in reception and tied for 13th in TD's. He is solid but he is not a top SEC WR

[BB30]

Wrong period??? The guy was 18th in reception and tied for 13th in TD's. He is solid but he is not a top SEC WR

Out of curiosity what site are you pulling these numbers from?

[chef dixon]

Donald Gray isn't dynamic enough at this point to be a top SEC guy. He makes great plays but still hasn't settled into a role with us.

[lamont]

And we return the sec's total yardage leader who will probably do it again with his passing improvement

Only 3 SEC teams don't return a starting QB in 2017. Other teams are going to get better passing the ball also. 4 True Freshman QB's started in 2016. Our WR talent level drops in 2017- teams will force us away from Gray to spread the love to Couch and Myles.

[lamont]

Out of curiosity what site are you pulling these numbers from?

Cfbstats.com

[BB30]

Wrong period??? The guy was 18th in reception and tied for 13th in TD's. He is solid but he is not a top SEC WR

And a large part of the lack of receptions if the fact that Fred Ross a legit top 5 receiver and NFL prospect had 68 receptions good for 2nd in the league. Most of the guys you are looking at are already their teams #1 target. Gray was 5th in yds per reception last year which IMO is a more meaningful stat than receptions. He caught 39 balls for 691yds that tells me he is a pretty solid deep threat. And without a doubt one of the top #2 receivers on any team. There is no reason he won't have a legitimate shot to finish in the top ten in several categories.

[Todd4State]

Are you saying he's hard to see because of his height? It's not like he's barely over 5'. Unless there's a corner out there who's 6'2" and can stick to him like a literal shadow (there's not), a few inches aren't going to make a difference in visibility down the field.

It's harder to get the ball to an outside WR that is smaller. He has a much smaller catch radius and it's more difficult to use his body to shield off defenders.

[lamont]

Let's also don't forget we have to replace 3 starters on the OL- including our Center

[Todd4State]

I believe he'll be a better than top 10 sec receiver next year. Some of his lack of production is Fitz still growing into his passing role IMO.

Fitz's development didn't hurt Ross too much. The bottom line is we better hope that Couch and Todd take big steps next year or we could have some problems.

[Todd4State]

Let's also don't forget we have to replace 3 starters on the OL- including our Center

And we're likely going to move at least one of the two most effective linemen to other positions as well because of poor recruiting.

[ShotgunDawg]

On a scale from 1-10 I think Gray is a 6 on the scale. He's a bit of a tweener IMO

[Covercorner2]

Let's also don't forget we have to replace 3 starters on the OL- including our Center

Replaced 2 starters last year- including our LT. Also didn't have an established QB (or RB for that matter).

[Covercorner2]

On a scale from 1-10 I think Gray is a 6 on the scale. He's a bit of a tweener IMO

Gray is a really good player who has had to make a lot of adjustments (going from JUCO to D1, QB controversy and losing Dak, playing second fiddle, etc.). Call me crazy, but I expect him to thrive with some stability and experience.

[smootness]

Fitz's development didn't hurt Ross too much. The bottom line is we better hope that Couch and Todd take big steps next year or we could have some problems.

It cost him 20 catches and about 200 yards vs. 2015, though he did have more TD.

[smootness]

On a scale from 1-10 I think Gray is a 6 on the scale. He's a bit of a tweener IMO

On the college level? I think he's an 8.

[Todd4State]

It cost him 20 catches and about 200 yards vs. 2015, though he did have more TD.

Compare his receptions to Gray's and I think you will understand my point better.

[BB30]

Let's also don't forget we have to replace 3 starters on the OL- including our Center

Completely agree here, if our OL doesn't gel and play well we will have more problems than Gray getting his catches.

[basedog]

And we're likely going to move at least one of the two most effective linemen to other positions as well because of poor recruiting.

You gotta be bored, it's not even spring practice yet, all the players haven't been tested but yet you are so negative when there shouldn't be any negative talk without knowing what is going on and to see who can or can't play.

Come on Todd, start thinking, you have so many opinions that just don't stick any longer, no way you or I or anyone knows what can happen for next year. Why carry on the f***ing agenda?

[msstate7]

On the college level? I think he's an 8.

I agree. He has enough speed and quickness to get open. He's strong... go watch him bull himself in the endzone vs Om. His blocking got much better down the stretch

[smootness]

He was 18th in SEC in receptions- with only 3 Sr's above him. Now a couple of JR's could declare- but Gray won't be a top 10 returning WR in receptions- and there were some really talented Freshmen this past year plus more coming into the league.

Gray is in no way, shape, or form a Top 10 SEC WR

Why is # of receptions the key defining stat? If given the same number of yards, I'll actually take fewer receptions rather than more.

But he will be the go-to guy next year. If he breaks the top 15 in receptions next year, will you call him a top 15 SEC WR? Let me guess - you'll pull another stat to try to show that he wasn't.

[dawgday166]

Fitz's development didn't hurt Ross too much. The bottom line is we better hope that Couch and Todd take big steps next year or we could have some problems.

I kinda lean toward Fitz looking for Ross more than Gray too. We'll see but I believe he may can stretch the field better than Ross could. He'll need other WRs though to be something of concerns for opposing Ds otherwise they'll be sure to take Gray away as an option.

[smootness]

Compare his YPC to Gray's and I think you will understand my point better.

Ross had 5 fewer YPC than Gray. What are you trying to say?

[dawgday166]

I agree. He has enough speed and quickness to get open. He's strong... go watch him bull himself in the endzone vs Om. His blocking got much better down the stretch

I agree.

[msstate7]

I kinda lean toward Fitz looking for Ross more than Gray too. We'll see but I believe he may can stretch the field better than Ross could. He'll need other WRs though to be something of concerns for opposing Ds otherwise they'll be sure to take Gray away as an option.

Fitz absolutely looked on to Ross too much this season. Fitz needs to really work on progressions this offseason.

[Todd4State]

You gotta be bored, it's not even spring practice yet, all the players haven't been tested but yet you are so negative when there shouldn't be any negative talk without knowing what is going on and to see who can or can't play.

Come on Todd, start thinking, you have so many opinions that just don't stick any longer, no way you or I or anyone knows what can happen for next year. Why carry on the f***ing agenda?

We are already talking about moving o-linemen around. That is a fact. I don't know what will happen next year but it's a concern at this point. Maybe it will turn out fine but Hevesy has put us in a less than ideal position with his laziness.

If you want sunshine football posts go post on Genespage.

[Todd4State]

Ross had 5 fewer YPC than Gray. What are you trying to say?

My mistake. I corrected it above. He had almost twice as many receptions as Gray. If Gray's numbers were affected that much by Fitz's development then Ross's would have been a lot closer to Gray assuming that Gray is an elite WR since we all know Ross is an elite receiver.

[msstate7]

We are already talking about moving o-linemen around. That is a fact. I don't know what will happen next year but it's a concern at this point. Maybe it will turn out fine but Hevesy has put us in a less than ideal position with his laziness.

If you want sunshine football posts go post on Genespage.

Hev had one of the top half olines in the sec this year. When we've been a run heavy offense, our oline has been pretty good. I see us as a run heavy offense next season

[smootness]

My mistake. I corrected it above. He had almost twice as many receptions as Gray. If Gray's numbers were affected that much by Fitz's development then Ross's would have been a lot closer to Gray assuming that Gray is an elite WR since we all know Ross is an elite receiver.

Huh? First, who said Gray was elite? You don't have to be elite to be a top 15 SEC WR.

Second, why would you compare Ross to Gray? You said Fitz's development didn't hurt Ross, but it did when you compare Ross to himself. Thus, Gray gaining experience, getting better, taking on the #1 role, and having a better Fitz should probably lead to enough receptions to get him inside the top 15 and likely even the top 10.

No?

[Really Clark?]

Wrong period??? The guy was 18th in reception and tied for 13th in TD's. He is solid but he is not a top SEC WR

You said he was not top 15. You were wrong and I posted the stats. As far actual receptions he was still ahead of Hatcher who is also in the top 15 and by every production catergory Gray was in the top 15. And that is what you stated. Top 15. You are wrong. Period.

[lamont]

Gray is an outstanding blocker

[Commercecomet24]

While size is great to have on the outside, I did some research on the top NFL receivers who are playing X receiver and all of these are 5'11" and under. Odell Beckham, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Tyreek Hill, TY Hilton, Jarvis Landry, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, Steve Smith, Desean Jackson. All of these spend the majority of their snaps playing the X receiver. I like the guys 6'3" and over playing the outside too, but the little guys can be extremely successful as well.

[smootness]

Here's the best strategy on this: Just ignore it for now, then bring it up after next year when Gray is obviously a top 15 SEC WR. Right now, it's just trolling.

[Commercecomet24]

It cost him 20 catches and about 200 yards vs. 2015, though he did have more TD.

Ross had 18 drops this year and at least 3 that cost tds. He couldve had a monster this year. The drops improved as the season went along but the drops hurt us this year bad. It wasnt just Ross but he had more than anyone because of his targets.

[lamont]

You said he was not top 15. You were wrong and I posted the stats. As far actual receptions he was still ahead of Hatcher who is also in the top 15 and by every production catergory Gray was in the top 15. And that is what you stated. Top 15. You are wrong. Period.


He was not in the top 15 in receptions- from there it just becomes opinion

[BB30]

He was not in the top 15 in receptions- from there it just becomes opinion

So your telling me you would take a guy with say 50 receptions for 500 yds over a guy with say 35 grabs for 650 yds. Receptions are a completely meaningless stat. I want production... Ypc and TDs are far and away the best stat to decide production

[smootness]

He was not in the top 15 in receptions- from there it just becomes opinion

He was in the top 15 in yards, YPG, YPC, and TD - from there it just becomes opinion

[Really Clark?]

He was 10th in yards, 12th in yards per game, 13th in TD and 5th in avg yards per catch this year. Those are not opinions. Those are the cold hard facts. You want to use receptions ONLY as the only fact that matters never mind he had more yards per game than Ridley, any Kentucky receiver you slobbered over preseason, Drew Morgan, Mason at MO, heck he was just 2 yards per game less than Stringfellow and all of this while we threw the ball 126 times less this year. All of those guys caught more balls but finish below him in yards per game. And the difference between 18th in receptions and 15th is 4 catches.

[dawgday166]

Fitz absolutely looked on to Ross too much this season. Fitz needs to really work on progressions this offseason.

Agree. 3 keys to next season's offense IMO are: 1) Fitz' development in spring and off-season as a passer 2) Oline play and cohesiveness 3) other WRs as threats and as blockers too.
A lot of off-season, old school, on their own work needs to be done IMO.

[dawgday166]

My mistake. I corrected it above. He had almost twice as many receptions as Gray. If Gray's numbers were affected that much by Fitz's development then Ross's would have been a lot closer to Gray assuming that Gray is an elite WR since we all know Ross is an elite receiver.

That's not always true. See Steve Young, Jerry Rice, John Taylor as an example. Rice had off the chart numbers with Young more so than Montana. Difference was Montana could progress to his 4th option and he spread the ball all around. Young didn't do that as well.

ETA: And you'll never be able to convince me Taylor wasn't an elite receiver.

[Todd4State]

Hev had one of the top half olines in the sec this year. When we've been a run heavy offense, our oline has been pretty good. I see us as a run heavy offense next season

And now we're talking about moving the best part of the line around. I don't like that. That's on Hevesy for not recruiting well enough to keep a good thing together.

[dawgday166]

And now we're talking about moving the best part of the line around. I don't like that. That's on Hevesy for not recruiting well enough to keep a good thing together.

I'm not a fan of this either, but I'm cutting Hev some slack until next year. Waiting to see what happens. If we losing games cause Oline is breaking down at key moments in games, then I'll be cussing him again.

[Todd4State]

Huh? First, who said Gray was elite? You don't have to be elite to be a top 15 SEC WR.

Second, why would you compare Ross to Gray? You said Fitz's development didn't hurt Ross, but it did when you compare Ross to himself. Thus, Gray gaining experience, getting better, taking on the #1 role, and having a better Fitz should probably lead to enough receptions to get him inside the top 15 and likely even the top 10.

No?

If you don't think top 15 is elite then that's a difference in opinion on what elite is. I compared the two under the assumption that people were saying that top 15 is elite which is why I compared him to Ross.

I don't think you can make that assumption about Gray because assuming he's our best WR he's also going to get the other team's best corner. It just depends on how much Couch and Todd and maybe others improve and how much impact they have which is an unknown at this point.

[Todd4State]

While size is great to have on the outside, I did some research on the top NFL receivers who are playing X receiver and all of these are 5'11" and under. Odell Beckham, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Tyreek Hill, TY Hilton, Jarvis Landry, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, Steve Smith, Desean Jackson. All of these spend the majority of their snaps playing the X receiver. I like the guys 6'3" and over playing the outside too, but the little guys can be extremely successful as well.

According to the NFL top 100 list this year before the season- by no means scientific but it did have input from NFL players, coaches, etc. the majority of the best on that list were over 6'0" tall.

[lamont]

He was in the top 15 in yards, YPG, YPC, and TD - from there it just becomes opinion

He was tied for 19th in receptions per game
He was 12th in yards per game
He was 18th in receptions
He was tied for 13th in TD's

That's just not really a top 15 guy

[Todd4State]

That's not always true. See Steve Young, Jerry Rice, John Taylor as an example. Rice had off the chart numbers with Young more so than Montana. Difference was Montana could progress to his 4th option and he spread the ball all around. Young didn't do that as well.

ETA: And you'll never be able to convince me Taylor wasn't an elite receiver.

Agree Taylor was an elite WR and actually elite PR as well. Kind of apples and oranges because Taylor was comparable in size to Rice.

[dawgday166]

Agree Taylor was an elite WR and actually elite PR as well. Kind of apples and oranges because Taylor was comparable in size to Rice.

Well my point was more about a QB going thru his progressions. I tend to think Dallas' O isn't as good since Dez came back possibly because Dak has become a little too concerned with getting the ball to Dez. Young couldn't hardly see anyone but Rice (pre Terrell Owens). I believe Fitz will improve on this by next year. And Gray will probably be the go-to guy.

ETA: Right now Gray isn't the part of the offense that I'm too concerned with. I think he'll be pretty darn good IMO.

[BB30]

He was tied for 19th in receptions per game
He was 12th in yards per game
He was 18th in receptions
He was tied for 13th in TD's

That's just not really a top 15 guy

Receptions don't mean jack shi*. You can have 33 catches for 75 yds and that is getting you absolutely no where. YPC, total receiving yds, and TDS are literally the only thing that a WR should be judged on. It does me no good to have a guy with a bunch of catches and nothing to show for it other than a bunch of wasted plays.

[Really Clark?]

Gray was also 13th among WR in all purpose yards per game. He was also Top 10 in the number of receptions of 20+ yards, 30+ yards, 40+ yards, Top 5 in 50+ yard receptions, 60+ yards and tied for top in 70 + yards receptions with 2.

[basedog]

My mistake. I corrected it above. He had almost twice as many receptions as Gray. If Gray's numbers were affected that much by Fitz's development then Ross's would have been a lot closer to Gray assuming that Gray is an elite WR since we all know Ross is an elite receiver.

You are full of yourself Mr Play Station! I ain't talking sunshine, you are talking sh@t that you haven't got a clue unless you are sucking Mullen off!

Talk is all the coaches are talking about, there is nothing wrong with looking at players at other positions, obviously you never played football nor coached it dude! Spring practice is for fundamentals and experimenting, what a dumb ass you have become! Maybe ED should have a "Play Station section and you can be the master blaster of all sports.

Mullen is becoming the best ever but you post always with some negative remark. Damn on you for being a Msu fan of any sport, you and the clarion ledger have a lot in common.

[lamont]

I've heard it all now- receptions don't mean "jack shit" for a WR.

Reading that out loud makes one sound very stupid.

[BB30]

I've heard it all now- receptions don't mean "jack shit" for a WR.

Reading that out loud makes one sound very stupid.

Please explain to me how that is the single most relevant stat for a receiver...How does receptions=production?

Answer this question.... Would you rather have a guy with 50 catches for 500yds or a guy with 39 catches for 650yds?
Receptions have its place but it is not the most important stat a receiver has. If it is argue with facts as to why it is clearly the most important stat and the only stat you deem worthy of rating a WR by? Is it just because it fits your argument?

[Todd4State]

You are full of yourself Mr Play Station! I ain't talking sunshine, you are talking sh@t that you haven't got a clue unless you are sucking Mullen off!

Talk is all the coaches are talking about, there is nothing wrong with looking at players at other positions, obviously you never played football nor coached it dude! Spring practice is for fundamentals and experimenting, what a dumb ass you have become! Maybe ED should have a "Play Station section and you can be the master blaster of all sports.

Mullen is becoming the best ever but you post always with some negative remark. Damn on you for being a Msu fan of any sport, you and the clarion ledger have a lot in common.

Random is saying a lot of the same things I am. Why don't you crawl up his ass too?


Go **** yourself. Merry Christmas.

[Really Clark?]

Please explain to me how that is the single most relevant stat for a receiver...How does receptions=production?

Answer this question.... Would you rather have a guy with 50 catches for 500yds or a guy with 39 catches for 650yds?
Receptions have its place but it is not the most important stat a receiver has. If it is argue with facts as to why it is clearly the most important stat and the only stat you deem worthy of rating a WR by? Is it just because it fits your argument?

The NFL ranks by yards or yards per game. Receptions are important but is not used for ranking the top receivers. Stephon Diggs and Eldelman have more receptions than Julio Jones. NOBODY can make a case either one of those are better or Top 15

[BB30]

The NFL ranks by yards or yards per game. Receptions are important but is not used for ranking the top receivers. Stephon Diggs and Eldelman have more receptions than Julio Jones. NOBODY can make a case either one of those are better or Top 15

Oh I assure you Random would find a way to argue it if that was his talking point.

[Bully13]

Since Donald Gray graduated, any concern over him doing like Beniquez Brown and just moving on and trying for the NFL?

Whether this is the "right" decision or not is a separate issue, I'm curious as to whether IYOK or anyone else knows if we are safe with him staying.

I will admit that TD where he trucked that safety guy then refused to be tackled by that DL guy was NFL quality. I know that is only one play but for those who have seen more plays than I have, how good of a blocker is he? I do think he is a future NFL player though.

[sandwolf]

The NFL ranks by yards or yards per game. Receptions are important but is not used for ranking the top receivers. Stephon Diggs and Eldelman have more receptions than Julio Jones. NOBODY can make a case either one of those are better or Top 15


Oh I assure you Random would find a way to argue it if that was his talking point. I have enjoyed watching yall take RP apart in this argument, so feel free to keep going if you want to, but if yall are waiting for him to admit that yall are right and that almost every point that he has made has been dumb as shit, I will save yall the suspense.....it will never happen.

[lamont]

The NFL ranks by yards or yards per game. Receptions are important but is not used for ranking the top receivers. Stephon Diggs and Eldelman have more receptions than Julio Jones. NOBODY can make a case either one of those are better or Top 15

Well by your metric- Larry Fitzgerald- who leads the entire NFL in receptions but isn't in the top 15 in yards, ypg, or TD's isn't a top 15 WR. And by saying that- you would be wrong

The guy leading the NFL in receptions is damn sure a top 15 WR

[BB30]

Well by your metric- Larry Fitzgerald- who leads the entire NFL in receptions but isn't in the top 15 in yards, ypg, or TD's isn't a top 15 WR. And by saying that- you would be wrong

The guy leading the NFL in receptions is damn sure a top 15 WR

So are you taking the guy with 50 catches for 500yds or the guy with 39 for 650?

I may end up agreeing with you if you can explain how receptions are the clear and most important stat for a receiver, otherwise, you just keep deflecting.

[DudyDawg]

He was tied for 19th in receptions per game
He was 12th in yards per game
He was 18th in receptions
He was tied for 13th in TD's

That's just not really a top 15 guy

If you average his rankings for those 4 categories, he's ranked at 15.5. I'm assuming you left out his YPC rank for a reason? I don't know where he ranks there, and don't really care, but your 4 stats basically say he's a top 15 guy.

[Really Clark?]

Well by your metric- Larry Fitzgerald- who leads the entire NFL in receptions but isn't in the top 15 in yards, ypg, or TD's isn't a top 15 WR. And by saying that- you would be wrong

The guy leading the NFL in receptions is damn sure a top 15 WR

IDIOT. Of course Fitzgerald is. He is also 17th in yards. But the point is receptions is not only just how players are ranked. Production plays a bigger factor. Are Julio Jones and Amari Cooper Top 15 receivers. Of course they are. But they are NOT Top 15 in receptions. 19th and 16 th respectively

[BB30]

If you average his rankings for those 4 categories, he's ranked at 15.5. I'm assuming you left out his YPC rank for a reason? I don't know where he ranks there, and don't really care, but your 4 stats basically say he's a top 15 guy.

Yea he is 13th in ypc which ironically averages out to exactly 15.

[dawgday166]

Well by your metric- Larry Fitzgerald- who leads the entire NFL in receptions but isn't in the top 15 in yards, ypg, or TD's isn't a top 15 WR. And by saying that- you would be wrong

The guy leading the NFL in receptions is damn sure a top 15 WR

Just to pile on a little here **** I believe by that logic the RB that carries 25/game for 75 yd average is better or as good as the 15/game for 75 yds? Is that what you're saying?

[Intramural All-American]

Well by your metric- Larry Fitzgerald- who leads the entire NFL in receptions but isn't in the top 15 in yards, ypg, or TD's isn't a top 15 WR. And by saying that- you would be wrong

The guy leading the NFL in receptions is damn sure a top 15 WR

You're such an annoying troll. Nobody said that the leader in receptions wasn't a top receiver, but you are pointing out that gray is not a top receiver because he is not in the top 15 in receptions. By your logic, receptions is the only category that matters in regards to rating wide receivers. Therefore, the top 15 in receptions are the top 15 receivers no matter what. That is pure ignorance and you know it. But trolls gonna troll.

You have blatantly disregarded the stats that have him in the top 10, and you listed receptions AND receptions/game in the same listing to further your point. its basically the same exact thing except for injuries(which he didn't have; which would hurt him in regards to others who played fewer games with less receptions total) or bama and LSU who were he only teams not to play 12 games exactly.

You are literally the worst.

[Dawg496]

Julio Jones is clearly not a Top 15 WR because he ranks #19 in receptions.

[Bothrops]

Folks, let's face facts...we missed on our obligatory receiver targets, and will pay a price. It will limit our offense next year and the the big boys can focus on stacking the box against us. We needed a ready-made outside WR to make up some lost ground for losing Ross. Now we have to rely on guys with little to no experience. Bama, LSU, and likely, Auburn and Georgia will really limit our offense.

[Commercecomet24]

Ah, I see the Christmas spirit is alive and well at Elitedawgs! Everyone getting along and showing love for each other*********

[Political Hack]

Gray is an elite WR and might be the best deep threat in the SEC next season. That bold enough?

Dude is a stud and catches the ball easily while in a full sprint. Most WRs can't do that. Even Fred Ross can't catch a deep ball in stride as well as Gray can.

[msstate7]

Folks, let's face facts...we missed on our obligatory receiver targets, and will pay a price. It will limit our offense next year and the the big boys can focus on stacking the box against us. We needed a ready-made outside WR to make up some lost ground for losing Ross. Now we have to rely on guys with little to no experience. Bama, LSU, and likely, Auburn and Georgia will really limit our offense.

Gray, dear, and Mixon could all be dangerous receivers for us next season.

[Dawg61]

Random is saying a lot of the same things I am.

it puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again

[Commercecomet24]

Gray, dear, and Mixon could all be dangerous receivers for us next season.

If Gabe gets over the dropsies he could be a huge help too and lets not forget our stable of TE's.

[Commercecomet24]

Gray is an elite WR and might be the best deep threat in the SEC next season. That bold enough?

Dude is a stud and catches the ball easily while in a full sprint. Most WRs can't do that. Even Fred Ross can't catch a deep ball in stride as well as Gray can.

I am also of the opinion that Gray has more catch radius than Bear, due to the fact the guy has hops and high points the ball and gets his arms extended, something Bear never learned to do.

[basedog]

Random is saying a lot of the same things I am. Why don't you crawl up his ass too?


Go **** yourself. Merry Christmas.

Because Random is real, you are a wanna be, besides, I like Random, we are friends along with some others that post occasionally.

Merry Christmas to you, I hope your present under you mommy's tree is a newer 2017 Play Station because your old one sucks!

[Todd4State]

Because Random is real, you are a wanna be, besides, I like Random, we are friends along with some others that post occasionally.

Merry Christmas to you, I hope your present under you mommy's tree is a newer 2017 Play Station because your old one sucks!

Oh so if you knew me it would be Ok to you to say the things I am saying? Sounds like a typical internet badass.

[Commercecomet24]

According to the NFL top 100 list this year before the season- by no means scientific but it did have input from NFL players, coaches, etc. the majority of the best on that list were over 6'0" tall.

No the players I listed are all 5'11" or under and thats according to their bio on NFL.com and ESPN.com and they all play the X receiver.

[Todd4State]

it puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again

Hey look! It's the guy that is stupid enough to take the troll bait every single time and brings nothing to the board.

[basedog]

Oh so if you knew me it would be Ok to you to say the things I am saying? Sounds like a typical internet badass.

Now that hurt my feelings Todd, I guess I will go to my room and play the drums......oh wait I don't have no f***ing drums, I didn't march in the band! Maybe I will play on mt Play Station......damn again I don't have one. You did play drums correct?

Badass yes, internet badass I suppose I could be.

[Todd4State]

Now that hurt my feelings Todd, I guess I will go to my room and play the drums......oh wait I don't have no f***ing drums, I didn't march in the band! Maybe I will play on mt Play Station......damn again I don't have one. You did play drums correct?

Badass yes, internet badass I suppose I could be.

Internet badass is another word for ***** so yeah I guess you are one.

[smootness]

If you don't think top 15 is elite then that's a difference in opinion on what elite is. I compared the two under the assumption that people were saying that top 15 is elite which is why I compared him to Ross.

I don't think you can make that assumption about Gray because assuming he's our best WR he's also going to get the other team's best corner. It just depends on how much Couch and Todd and maybe others improve and how much impact they have which is an unknown at this point.

You think all of the top 15 WR in the SEC are elite?

Ross was one of the top 3-4 WR. Sure, that's elite. And Gray may be there next year.

Everyone knows Gray was around the top 15 of WR in the SEC this year and almost certainly will be next year. C34 just said something dumb to troll and is now fighting a losing battle trying to defend it.

Don't jump into that parade.

[Commercecomet24]

You think all of the top 15 WR in the SEC are elite?

Ross was one of the top 3-4 WR. Sure, that's elite. And Gray may be there next year.

Everyone knows Gray was around the top 15 of WR in the SEC this year and almost certainly will be next year. C34 just said something dumb to troll and is now fighting a losing battle trying to defend it.

Don't jump into that parade.

RP34 is the puppetmaster.

[Todd4State]

You think all of the top 15 WR in the SEC are elite?

Ross was one of the top 3-4 WR. Sure, that's elite. And Gray may be there next year.

Everyone knows Gray was around the top 15 of WR in the SEC this year and almost certainly will be next year. C34 just said something dumb to troll and is now fighting a losing battle trying to defend it.

Don't jump into that parade.

Well my whole point to all of that is that Gray isn't an elite receiver so I guess we agree.

[Political Hack]

Why's everybody so tense? We just whipped Ole Miss's ass and took over Mississippi for the next decade. I don't know if y'all recognize this or not, but that's going to help. The next ten years are set. Rejoice! Tis' the season.

[Bothrops]

If Gabe gets over the dropsies he could be a huge help too and lets not forget our stable of TE's.

I like Gabe's running ability, but his lack of physicality limits his game a lot.

[Jarius]

I know everyone has stat padding games, but didn't Gray put up a ton of his stats against Samford? A team that he had no business playing against in the 4th qtr but had to because we were so awful that day?

[Commercecomet24]

Why's everybody so tense? We just whipped Ole Miss's ass and took over Mississippi for the next decade. I don't know if y'all recognize this or not, but that's going to help. The next ten years are set. Rejoice! Tis' the season.

These are my thoughts exactly! There's no reason for us to be depressed now. Relax!

[Commercecomet24]

I like Gabe's running ability, but his lack of physicality limits his game a lot.

Yeah. Gabe has not lived up to his potential. He's got talent too.

[LC Dawg]

Why's everybody so tense? We just whipped Ole Miss's ass and took over Mississippi for the next decade. I don't know if y'all recognize this or not, but that's going to help. The next ten years are set. Rejoice! Tis' the season.
Hell yeah! I just read this entire thread and I'm so glad this is one of the last things I read. Screw all this infighting. We've got our egg back and the plantation is about to burn. I may go watch the Egg Bowl again!

[msstate7]

I know everyone has stat padding games, but didn't Gray put up a ton of his stats against Samford? A team that he had no business playing against in the 4th qtr but had to because we were so awful that day?

Sec only stats...
23 rec 366 yds 15.9 yds/catch 2 td

[Dawg61]

Hey look! It's the guy that is stupid enough to take the troll bait every single time and brings nothing to the board.

Every single time? Says that in a thread I didn't take the bait on. Your man crush on C34 makes us all uncomfortable.

http://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/buffalo-bill.jpg

[Intramural All-American]

By the way, the SEC website shows Gray as 15th in receptions... so, hey Coach34, what's your excuse and reasoning now? Literally the one thing you have been harping on just went against you. Also, 2 of the players ahead of him are TES.

Looks like you are wrong again, but you will never admit that.

[Todd4State]

Every single time? Says that in a thread I didn't take the bait on. Your man crush on C34 makes us all uncomfortable.

http://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/buffalo-bill.jpg

It looks like you're the one with the man crush on me. That or you want to kill me and wear my skin. Either way it's creepy.

It's more like I can disagree with Random and not go over the top and freak out about how he is trolling everybody- like I disagreed with him about Hunter Renfroe. That and I'm not ironic enough to freak out about how what he says is ruining the board and trolling everybody while freaking out about it in the same thread. Meanwhile I'm sitting here wondering why the hell you either just don't post on this board or just don't respond to it if it bothers you that much. Not responding to it is how I deal with it but then I guess to your dumb ass that means I'm lumped in with him somehow so I guess I still have to deal with it anyway.

By the way I'm sure my girlfriend is quaking in her boots over you trying to get my affection. You might want to go after her and not Random. And if you kill me she will cut your balls off even though my guess is it may take her awhile to find yours.

[Dawg61]

It looks like you're the one with the man crush on me. That or you want to kill me and wear my skin. Either way it's creepy.

It's more like I can disagree with Random and not go over the top and freak out about how he is trolling everybody- like I disagreed with him about Hunter Renfroe. That and I'm not ironic enough to freak out about how what he says is ruining the board and trolling everybody while freaking out about it in the same thread. Meanwhile I'm sitting here wondering why the hell you either just don't post on this board or just don't respond to it if it bothers you that much. Not responding to it is how I deal with it but then I guess to your dumb ass that means I'm lumped in with him somehow so I guess I still have to deal with it anyway.

By the way I'm sure my girlfriend is quaking in her boots over you trying to get my affection. You might want to go after her and not Random. And if you kill me she will cut your balls off even though my guess is it may take her awhile to find yours.

Link one thread you disagreed with C34 on