Is The SEC The Best Conference This Year?

[ShotgunDawg]

It seems that the common assumption this year is that the Big 10 is the best conference & the SEC has dropped off. While there may be some validity to that, due to better overall coaches being in the Big 10, it's clear that the SEC still has the best players. I expect the SEC to jump back up next year, since there will be better QB play.

In Bleacher Report's 1st round Mock Draft released yesterday, the SEC has 17 of the top 32 players. Including 7 of the top 11.

Alabama has 6 players in the first round of the mock draft, which could be an all-time record.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2678605-2017-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-homestretch-predictions/page/2

My biggest question is: why has the Big 10 attracted so much better coaching?

[Political Hack]

Coaches are getting tired of the meat grinder. If the NCAA clears up Ole Miss's BS, it'll help the SEC in the long run because coaches will stay longer and or be more reacted to openings in the SEC. Great head coaches don't want to manage under the table shit. They want to do it right and/or truly have plausible deniability. Freeze and company have made that impossible in the SEC. I'd probably go find a Big Ten job myself based on what's been going on the last 10 years.

[PonderThis1]

Nick Saban
Ed Orgeron
Hugh Freeze
Bret Bielema
Jim McElwain
Dan Mullen
Kirby Smart
Butch Jones
Will Muschamp
Gus Malzahn
Kevin Sumlin
Barry Odom
Derek Mason
Mark Stoops

Urban Meyer, Ohio State
Jim Harbaugh, Michigan
Mark Dantonio, Michigan State
Kirk Ferentz, Iowa
Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern
James Franklin, Penn State
Mike Riley, Nebraska
?, Indiana
?, Purdue
Paul Chryst, Wisconsin
DJ Durken, Maryland
Lovie Smith, Illinois
Chris Ash, Rutgers
Tracy Claeys, Minnesota

both "?" schools dont have a coach.

Just in case anyone wants a reference.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I don't think the SEC is the best conference this year. You have Bama & a bunch of ok teams. Anybody can beat anybody on a given Saturday. I think the Big 10 got fortunate on coaches. You already had Urban & Dantonio. You had Franklin who's a Pennsylvania guy come along when Penn St needed him in a bad way. You got Harbaugh who's a Michigan alum come at the perfect time when he & the 49ers were at odds. Then guys like Ferentz & Pat Fitzgerald who are solid. I just think their additions have been better than the SEC. SEC additions last 2yrs Jim Mcelwain, Kirby Smart, Barry Odom, Will Muschamp, & Ed Orgeron. Not exactly a murderer's row.

[ShotgunDawg]

Nick Saban - Elite
Ed Orgeron - Below average
Hugh Freeze - Below average
Bret Bielema - Above average
Jim McElwain - Above average
Dan Mullen - Above average
Kirby Smart - Below average
Butch Jones - Below average
Will Muschamp - Below average
Gus Malzahn - Above average
Kevin Sumlin - Average
Barry Odom - Below average
Derek Mason - Below average
Mark Stoops - Below average

Urban Meyer, Ohio State - Elite
Jim Harbaugh, Michigan - Elite
Mark Dantonio, Michigan State - Elite
Kirk Ferentz, Iowa - Above Average
Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern - Above average
James Franklin, Penn State - Above average
Mike Riley, Nebraska - Average
?, Indiana - Below average
?, Purdue - Below average
Paul Chryst, Wisconsin - Above average
DJ Durken, Maryland - Below average
Lovie Smith, Illinois - Average
Chris Ash, Rutgers - Below average
Tracy Claeys, Minnesota - Average

So by my count it breaks down like this:

The SEC

Elite - 1
Above Average - 4
Average - 1
Below Average - 8

Big 10:

Elite - 3
Above Average - 4
Average - 3
Below Average - 2

The coaching in the Big 10 is light years better than the SEC when you break it down. Pretty pathetic

[ShotgunDawg]

Coaches are getting tired of the meat grinder. If the NCAA clears up Ole Miss's BS, it'll help the SEC in the long run because coaches will stay longer and or be more reacted to openings in the SEC. Great head coaches don't want to manage under the table shit. They want to do it right and/or truly have plausible deniability. Freeze and company have made that impossible in the SEC. I'd probably go find a Big Ten job myself based on what's been going on the last 10 years.

Agree, Ole Miss & others have made it a nightmare of a place to coach.

The SEC office should consider this when trying to help or not help Ole Miss. Programs like them are destroying the conference because no one wants to deal with it.

[Pollodawg]

I think the SEC is Bama and everyone else.

[Dawgface]

I think the SEC is Bama and everyone else.

Seems like college football is Bama and everyone else.

[Bubb Rubb]

I think the SEC is Bama and everyone else.

This. The Big 10 probably has three teams that would finish second in the SEC, but none that could hang with Bama one on one.

[KB21]

So, Kevin Wilson got fired. The same Kevin Wilson who claims he turned down the Mississippi State job citing that "You can't win there" as a reason.

[CadaverDawg]

Defense used to be the staple of the SEC. Now guys like Hugh HS gimmicks Freeze and Gus Malzahn etc have come in and forced the SEC to become smaller and faster on D, thus shittier on D, to keep up with the fast paced garbage. Therefore fundamentals have taken a back seat to just endurance and being ready for a quick snap. No longer is football a game of chess...it's now about being gimmicky and catching teams off guard before they're lined up and shit like that.

Unless you can't tell, I hate the cheesy, "NASCAR" offenses. I think they're similar to "Hack a Shaq"...it's legal, but it reeks of an inferior person spending more time on finding loopholes to gain an advantage, than just becoming a better coach and recruiter.

I may be being a bit extreme though.

[Liverpooldawg]

It's not this year. It has the best team but overall it's way down.

[ShotgunDawg]

Defense used to be the staple of the SEC. Now guys like Hugh HS gimmicks Freeze and Gus Malzahn etc have come in and forced the SEC to become smaller and faster on D, thus shittier on D, to keep up with the fast paced garbage. Therefore fundamentals have taken a back seat to just endurance and being ready for a quick snap. No longer is football a game of chess...it's now about being gimmicky and catching teams off guard before they're lined up and shit like that.

Unless you can't tell, I hate the cheesy, "NASCAR" offenses. I think they're similar to "Hack a Shaq"...it's legal, but it reeks of an inferior person spending more time on finding loopholes to gain an advantage, than just becoming a better coach and recruiter.

I may be being a bit extreme though.

You make a ton of sense here Cadaver. When Saban said, "Is this what we want football to become?" I must admit that I didn't realize what he meant. However, now I do understand what he meant and it kind of sucks.

One issue that this has caused is that, unless you have super elite players, you can't build a defense that matches up well against every offense in the SEC.

If you build a defense to beat Bama, LSU, or Arkansas, then you get beat by Ole Miss, Auburn, and A&M. If you build a defense to beat Ole Miss, Auburn, and A&M, then you can't stop LSU, Bama, or Arkansas. No one except Bama can acquire enough talent to do both, so your left with average football teams

Not sure why some Big 10 teams haven't gone gimmicky.

[dawgs]

Defense used to be the staple of the SEC. Now guys like Hugh HS gimmicks Freeze and Gus Malzahn etc have come in and forced the SEC to become smaller and faster on D, thus shittier on D, to keep up with the fast paced garbage. Therefore fundamentals have taken a back seat to just endurance and being ready for a quick snap. No longer is football a game of chess...it's now about being gimmicky and catching teams off guard before they're lined up and shit like that.

Unless you can't tell, I hate the cheesy, "NASCAR" offenses. I think they're similar to "Hack a Shaq"...it's legal, but it reeks of an inferior person spending more time on finding loopholes to gain an advantage, than just becoming a better coach and recruiter.

I may be being a bit extreme though.

Just because it's a different chess game doesn't mean it's not chess. Isn't being a good coach being able to maximize the chances of winning a game with your talent? Isn't being a good recruiter recognizing your program's recruiting limitations and then finding guys that can do some things well to help you win, even if they aren't 5* and high end 4* guys? HUNH is not like hack a shaq at all. The equivalent of hack a shaq is like the ravens holding guys on the last play of the game on a 4th down punt, stepping out of the endzone after the clock hit 0:00 for a safety, and not having to punt or kick the ball to the opposing team because a game can end on an offensive penalty.

Also, I wish we went more gimmicky (HUNH) more often to keep the pressure on teams with far superior talent, like bama.

Finally, every conference has more "gimmicky" offenses now. I don't think it's gimmicky, it's just a new style you don't like.

As for why I think the sec is down, I honestly think bama has become too great. Programs like lsu, auburn, Florida, and uga sycle thru quality coaches desperate to find the next Saban. Urban quit on Florida after Saban gave him a heart attack. Without inexplicable luck (TD passes off helmets, multiple kickoff returns fumbled, throwing passes well past the line of scrimmage), none of the other programs in the conference can even hope to compete with bama, even on bama's bad day. That leads to more frustration from coaches and fans. Bama also literally has signed the consensus #1 class for 5 straight years, and currently leads the country again. Take 5 of those signees per year and spread them around to a few other programs, while bama replaces them with other slightly less good recruits, and bama still has elite talent, but there's a few more playmakers around the league to take down bama too. I honestly think bama has just gotten to a point that the forest of the conference is beat down and fatigued and you are seeing the results with a bunch of mediocre behind bama.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

If you want to know the main reason the SEC is down this year look no further

Jalen Hurts - Freshman
Austin Allen - Junior
Sean White - Sophomore
Danny Etling - Junior
Shea Patterson - Freshman
Nick Fitzgerald - Sophomore
Trevor Knight - Senior
Luke Del Rio - Sophomore
Jacob Eason - Freshman
Stephen Johnson - Junior
Drew Lock - Sophomore
Jake Bentley - Freshman
Josh Dobbs - Senior
Kyle Shurmur - Sophomore

9 of the 14 starting QB to end the season are Freshman & Sophomores. That leads to uneven play. Then when your upperclassmen QB's aren't that good either it's a recipe for mediocre football. Now on the positive it should lead to a much better product the next 2-3yrs because all of the young QB's have shown promise to be at worst serviceable & at best ALL SEC & ALL American caliber guys.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Just because it's a different chess game doesn't mean it's not chess. Isn't being a good coach being able to maximize the chances of winning a game with your talent? Isn't being a good recruiter recognizing your program's recruiting limitations and then finding guys that can do some things well to help you win, even if they aren't 5* and high end 4* guys? HUNH is not like hack a shaq at all. The equivalent of hack a shaq is like the ravens holding guys on the last play of the game on a 4th down punt, stepping out of the endzone after the clock hit 0:00 for a safety, and not having to punt or kick the ball to the opposing team because a game can end on an offensive penalty.

Also, I wish we went more gimmicky (HUNH) more often to keep the pressure on teams with far superior talent, like bama.

Finally, every conference has more "gimmicky" offenses now. I don't think it's gimmicky, it's just a new style you don't like.

As for why I think the sec is down, I honestly think bama has become too great. Programs like lsu, auburn, Florida, and uga sycle thru quality coaches desperate to find the next Saban. Urban quit on Florida after Saban gave him a heart attack. Without inexplicable luck (TD passes off helmets, multiple kickoff returns fumbled, throwing passes well past the line of scrimmage), none of the other programs in the conference can even hope to compete with bama, even on bama's bad day. That leads to more frustration from coaches and fans. Bama also literally has signed the consensus #1 class for 5 straight years, and currently leads the country again. Take 5 of those signees per year and spread them around to a few other programs, while bama replaces them with other slightly less good recruits, and bama still has elite talent, but there's a few more playmakers around the league to take down bama too. I honestly think bama has just gotten to a point that the forest of the conference is beat down and fatigued and you are seeing the results with a bunch of mediocre behind bama.

I think you're spot on here. The only disagreement I have is that Meyer's heart condition wasn't caused by Saban (even though he was a big contributor), yet was caused because he was taking kids with risky backgrounds trying to win. When you're dealing with the egos of the Pouncey twins, Hernandez "the murderer", Percy Harvin, etc. and molding them on a team with a Tebow - it's a recipe for heart trouble. In an effort to maintain with Bama, you see more gambles with "suspect" characters and too many of them will cause the downfall of the program. Even if Ole Miss wasn't cheating, they have brought in suspect character guys that would have caused their demise regardless (that and shitty coaching).

[BB30]

I actually don't think the coaching is really that much different outside of Meyer and Harbaugh. Dantonio considered elite imo because he landed at MSU when the in state school was down. Lets see how he does with Harbaugh at Michigan. I don't think Dantonio could come to a similar school to Michigan State in the SEC and have the same success he has had in the big 10- making the playoff and winning the conference. I didn't bother to check but it will be interesting to see what B10 SEC bowl match ups there are and how those pan out. I think outside of Bama there really is not a huge gap between the #2 program and the #10 program. No way Wiscy beats LSU any other day and LSU was middle of the road. I think if Dan and Dantonio switched jobs Mullen would be able to have the same success at Michigan State as Dantonio has.

[dawgs]

Sorry about the typos. iPhone'd.

[ShotgunDawg]

The only disagreement I have is that Meyer's heart condition wasn't caused by Saban (even though he was a big contributor), yet was caused because he was taking kids with risky backgrounds trying to win.

Dr. Gutter Cobreh. Strong diagnosis here. You got any proof of this or a medical degree?

[Gutter Cobreh]

Dr. Gutter Cobreh. Strong diagnosis here. You got any proof of this or a medical degree?

Does my Doctorate of Common Sense qualify me???

Meyer is a phenomenal coach, but UF is a toxic environment. Ole Miss has an elitist mentality, but they pale in comparison to the UF fanbase.

A quick search reveals he did have a cyst on the brain causing headaches, but his heart condition was nothing more than GERD or acid reflux. Those don't cause a man to "retire", but wanting out of the toxic environment and questionable characters on the football team will make a man take a step back to see if there is an exit route....

[KB21]

You make a ton of sense here Cadaver. When Saban said, "Is this what we want football to become?" I must admit that I didn't realize what he meant. However, now I do understand what he meant and it kind of sucks.

One issue that this has caused is that, unless you have super elite players, you can't build a defense that matches up well against every offense in the SEC.

If you build a defense to beat Bama, LSU, or Arkansas, then you get beat by Ole Miss, Auburn, and A&M. If you build a defense to beat Ole Miss, Auburn, and A&M, then you can't stop LSU, Bama, or Arkansas. No one except Bama can acquire enough talent to do both, so your left with average football teams

Not sure why some Big 10 teams haven't gone gimmicky.

This is one reason why we have seen Mississippi State move more towards the style of defense they played this past year, not in terms of being ineffective but in terms of being hybrid in nature with the hybrid safety/linebacker spot and hybrid linebacker/defensive end spot. Much like the goal of the spread offense was to get athletes onto the field so they can play in space, the goal of this defensive philosophy is to counteract those athletes with athletes.

[Cooterpoot]

Big Ten is 95-73 this season. 32-10 non-conference record. 3rd ranked strength of schedule for conferences.
SEC is 98-68 this season. 42-12 non-conference record. 1st ranked strength of schedule for conferences.
Sagarin numbers have the SEC as the best conference. The SEC West is considerably higher rated than any division in the country.

To my eyes, AL is better than OSU. FL and LSU are similar to Michigan and Wisc. The rest is a toss up.

[TUSK]

yes.



The gap has narrowed, and it's close. Top to bottom the SEC is better than the B1G.

[TUSK]

and, as an added bonus, I'll give ya this....

of the 14 Big Ten teams, Vandy might beat 6 of 'em....

2612

[dawgday166]

No