Question for you guys, now that Dak will be starting

[Op4isabitch]

How hard is it for our offensive staff to implement that diamond formation that OSU was running? Would this be effective with the players that we have on the roster? I know Dak isn't as fast as JW Walsh, so would that fact make the diamond formation less effective?

[Martianlander]

I don't know but it would be hard to be less effective than we were Saturday.

[Op4isabitch]

Shameless bump.

And to add,

What changes do you think the staff makes to our scheme due to Dak starting over Tyler?

[Hypnodawg]

I don't know but it would be hard to be less effective than we were Saturday.

Aint that the truth

[msstate7]

I would love for us to work that package in, but save it for auburn.

[Coach34]

How hard is it for our offensive staff to implement that diamond formation that OSU was running? Would this be effective with the players that we have on the roster? I know Dak isn't as fast as JW Walsh, so would that fact make the diamond formation less effective?

It's not that hard- the main thing is to make sure you get enough reps to feel comfortable using it. You also have to adapt the plays to your terminology.

It's easy for the OL- they double down playside
It's easy for the QB- he is still making the read on the DE
It will be different for the H-back guys- they have to hit it up inside and pound on LB's.

It's a hellacious wrinkle to the zone read- and you can add as many passes to it as needed.
We can also run the zone stretch out of it to either side.
We can motion one of the upbacks across and run a power play.
PA passes should be very good

It forces a safety to come play in the box- helping our WR's get more room to work in the secondary

We will be insane not to add this to our offense with our personnel

[Political Hack]

Not hard. It's basically getting the other backs to learn their blocking assignments. Everything else stays the same in the read option. I'm sure there's a bunch of variations that can be run out of that, a la Paul Johnson style football. We ran the wishbone in goal line situations a few years ago, so the coaches know the basic principles.

Also, we could run an awesome ass delayed counter out of that formation and still get zero yards on three straight plays, so I don't see any reason why they'd be against it.

[SignalToNoise]

Do we add it and use it this weekend against Alcorn to get some game time reps, or do we totally surprise AU with it? I'm guessing the former.

[Political Hack]

neither. I can't see us adopting this for Dak knowing that Tyler is coming back in a week or so.

[Coach34]

neither. I can't see us adopting this for Dak knowing that Tyler is coming back in a week or so.

At this point, we dont know that Russell will be back for Auburn- so with two weeks to work on something in a must win game vs Auburn- it could be added very easily.

[Political Hack]

oh, I think we should absolutely be adding a few new wrinkles, but I doubt CDM will invest the time into it. He'll have to take the WRs off the field for the most part and spend time teaching a system that we may not use more than one game to the whole team.

We can just go back to the simple read option. Get that right. Then, if TR is still out for Auburn, add it next week. If they show something like that this week, I highly doubt we actually run it the following week.

[msstate7]

Do we add it and use it this weekend against Alcorn to get some game time reps, or do we totally surprise AU with it? I'm guessing the former.

If I was a betting man, I'd wager we see it in the auburn game, but with auburn running it against us

[DapperDawg]

Our staff had an entire offseason to make adjustments and new installations, and they apparently did nothing, so you guys can forget the thought of seeing us add a new formation in a week or two...... or at any point this season.

Russell will return as soon as he's ready, regardless of Dak's performance. And Perkins will continue to get the bulk of the carries, even though Robinson is by far the better back. Mullen loves his ****ing seniors.

[Op4isabitch]

It's not that hard- the main thing is to make sure you get enough reps to feel comfortable using it. You also have to adapt the plays to your terminology.

It's easy for the OL- they double down playside
It's easy for the QB- he is still making the read on the DE
It will be different for the H-back guys- they have to hit it up inside and pound on LB's.

It's a hellacious wrinkle to the zone read- and you can add as many passes to it as needed.
We can also run the zone stretch out of it to either side.
We can motion one of the upbacks across and run a power play.
PA passes should be very good

It forces a safety to come play in the box- helping our WR's get more room to work in the secondary

We will be insane not to add this to our offense with our personnel

Thanks for the great explanation C34, now Hack why do you say it would cause Mullen to take the WR's off the field during practice? I've never played on the grid iron so forgive my ignorance.

[Political Hack]

The formation they ran only used 1 WR out wide.

There was a TE, 3 backs in the backfield, & the QB. They had 10 in the box. If we implement that, we've got one WR getting reps as we install it.

[starkvegasdawg]

What changes do you think the staff makes to our scheme due to Dak starting over Tyler?

They run ldp up the middle on first and second down now.**

[Coach 57]

First of all I am happy Dak is starting. I've been a huge fan of this change for q while. But there are 3 things he needs to polish up on.

1.) When we call the outside option. He has got to be more patient! We ran it once in the OSU game & he turned it right upfield into the teeth of the LBs. Hill made a great cut block all Dak had to do was make someone commit to him & pitch. If he'd had pitch LdP would STILL be running.

2.) When mid-line read is called (C34 calls it zone stretch) he has GOT to do a better job of reading the MLB. It's pretty simple. When the sweep (or stretch) comes by, all you have to do is leave your hands in the RBs gut (maybe even take a half step with him). If the ILB flows with the hack pull it and hit the A gap. If he doesn't flow let him keep. At the same time from what I understand Dak was at a school that threw the ball a ton in Haughton. But for whatever reason we need to (as a staff) embed this in his head. He is in there as a running threat. He STILL has reads to make though. It isn't "run what you brung." But these can be fixed with reps.

3.) Simple stuff like reading the inside corner if you are in a 4 receiver set. Then again Tyler needs to learn this too. If he (CB) is taking away the "out" on Tubby. Check it to a slant. If he's blitzing check it to the slant or better yet the stick route. Especially if they are in man coverage! This is what UM did the other night against Vandy with Treadwell. The whole team doesn't have to know just two guys. Just basic coverage reading. It aint that hard.

[Coach34]

The formation they ran only used 1 WR out wide.

There was a TE, 3 backs in the backfield, & the QB. They had 10 in the box. If we implement that, we've got one WR getting reps as we install it.

actually they were double-wide- 2 WR's...they didnt have a TE on the line...with 2 FB's/TE's/H-backs in the backfield. You go double-wide to keep the safeties back

[Coach 57]

^^^ yes C34 is right. It was a 2 receiver set.

[Political Hack]

no it wasn't. I just looked at it. the first time they used it they had one wide with a single TE.

they ran the same formation 4 times in a row with the QB keeping it 3 times in their first TD drive. Every play was an offset line to the right with a TE and only 1 WR set wide to the left.

[Coach34]

Just went and looked again myself- Hack is right, they did have a TE. But it could just as easily be run double-wide to have 2 WR's on the field

[Political Hack]

they could. the one benefit of having a different set in each side is it gives the QB two reads and he can run the read option to either side. One is a power set with everyone in the box and the other has the WR out wide. It's a pretty simple offense, but you can do a lot out of it.

[Op4isabitch]

Again, thanks for the explanations guys.

I went and found this to add to the descriptions y'all gave. Looks to me like it can't be to hard to throw this wrinkle into our offense.

http://xandolabs.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=343:53diamond-formation-misdirection-and-option-concepts&catid=99:offense&Itemid=163