Raekwon Davis Video From Yesterday

[ShotgunDawg]

How many more homegrown recruits is this staff going to miss on before someone at the higher levels of MSU gets in their ass about it?

If I remember, we also may have wanted to move him to OL.

Want to know why yesterday happened, it right in front of your eyes. It's right here.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DLineVids/status/797734780066529280

[msstate7]

Dude...

He committed to us on official visit. He goes home and then, boom... back to bama. Someone else was making Davis' decision for him

[ShotgunDawg]

Dude...

He committed to us on official visit. He goes home and then, boom... back to bama. Someone else was making Davis' decision for him

Results oriented business bud. No trophy for second place. We don't pay Mullen 4 mil to come close to getting players. Perhaps more attention should have been payed to the decision maker.

Lashley committed as well. AJ Brown....well I'm sure you saw him last night.

The helpless attitude is nauseating. Figure out how the system works.

[TNDawg35]

How many more homegrown recruits is this staff going to miss on before someone at the higher levels of MSU gets in their ass about it?

If I remember, we also may have wanted to move him to OL.

Want to know why yesterday happened, it right in front of your eyes. It's right here.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DLineVids/status/797734780066529280

Do you ever say anything positive, or do you just come here to bitch about shit?

[WinningIsRelentless]

Results oriented business bud. No trophy for second place. We don't pay Mullen 4 mil to come close to getting players. Perhaps more attention should have been payed to the decision maker.

Lashley committed as well. AJ Brown....well I'm sure you saw him last night.

The helpless attitude is nauseating. Figure out how the system works.

Then open your check book to start buying players. Oh wait our president of the university told every coach on campus they better not have ncaa issues after the stipend got approved.

Like I said a few weeks ago the staff is some of the problem but then damn the city of Stakville just isn't appealing to a lot of big time college kids.

[RocketDawg]

How many more homegrown recruits is this staff going to miss on before someone at the higher levels of MSU gets in their ass about it?

If I remember, we also may have wanted to move him to OL.

Want to know why yesterday happened, it right in front of your eyes. It's right here.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DLineVids/status/797734780066529280

Davis is from Meridian as I recall. It's not just this staff ... it's been going on for years. Remember David Bailey? He was from Meridian. That's where I grew up, and believe me, there are lots of Alabama fans there, and also lots of Ole Miss fans. Those border towns are likely to tilt either way, and it's easy for them to tilt toward Alabama since they're so good and some fans latch onto success.

[HoopsDawg]

Davis, Simmons, and Benito could have made for a championship caliber d-line.

[Coursesuper]

Davis, Simmons, and Benito could have made for a championship caliber d-line.

Benito has been on the payroll since he was in jr high.

[AROB44]

Do you ever say anything positive, or do you just come here to bitch about shit?

You pretty well nailed it. Big time bitcher.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

Then open your check book to start buying players. Oh wait our president of the university told every coach on campus they better not have ncaa issues after the stipend got approved.

Like I said a few weeks ago the staff is some of the problem but then damn the city of Stakville just isn't appealing to a lot of big time college kids.

Now I know that Starkville isn't a mecca for entertainment and isn't "appealing" to a lot of people, but I have never bought that as a reason we weren't successful in signing players. It's never seemed to have bothered the baseball program, and Howland surely hasn't alluded to that hampering his program in his short year and a half here.

Unfortunately, it does have more to do with opening a checkbook more than most folks want to admit. Everyone plays the game, some to a greater extent than others. We have never had the coordinated....let's call it "network" that most folks have. Where people get in trouble is they try to expand their boundaries when they should be satisfied in staying within their home area. I've never been in the drug business, but I imagine it works in a similar way as far as "your turf" and "my turf". As long as everyone stays within their own turf, all things go along smoothly. When someone gets greedy and tries to move into someone else's turf, then all hell breaks loose. I would imagine if someone did this in the recruiting game, it would turn out the same way*.

If we had a coordinated "Network" of our own, and kept within our own turf, we would be getting more, if not most, of these players that has been alluded to. Until that happens, keep expecting more of the same.

[HoopsDawg]

Benito has been on the payroll since he was in jr high.

Should have been us. That's the problem.

[msstate7]

Should have been us. That's the problem.

So you'd rather us be holding an NOA with 8 level 1s with another letter in the mail?

[Coursesuper]

Should have been us. That's the problem.

Your obviously not from Waynesboro, if you shop at Clark oil company stores you helped ole Benito out.

[Coursesuper]

So you'd rather us be holding an NOA with 8 level 1s with another letter in the mail?

That is an incredibly naive take.

[smootness]

Results oriented business bud. No trophy for second place. We don't pay Mullen 4 mil to come close to getting players. Perhaps more attention should have been payed to the decision maker.

Lashley committed as well. AJ Brown....well I'm sure you saw him last night.

The helpless attitude is nauseating. Figure out how the system works.

So we pay Mullen $4 million to beat out Nick Saban for recruits?

[msstate7]

That is an incredibly naive take.

Well wasn't he proposing we get more dirty than om who is loading up on recruiting violations?

[maroonmania]

Well wasn't he proposing we get more dirty than om who is loading up on recruiting violations?

Even with the extra benefits part excluded, I just don't believe our staff in general puts the effort into recruiting that certain other SEC staffs put in. Its good we are hiring some help from some coaches that do understand it and like putting in the effort but we still have too many on staff that don't really want to do it. Mullen and some of his cohorts are just not natural recruiters and never will be. We will always HAVE to be a "developmental" program when we can't recruit at the level of the other schools in our division.

[HoopsDawg]

Your obviously not from Waynesboro, if you shop at Clark oil company stores you helped ole Benito out.

I'm tired of the excuses. Maybe we had no shot at this kid but that's not the case with many others. Mstate, grow up bud.

[HoopsDawg]

Even with the extra benefits part excluded, I just don't believe our staff in general puts the effort into recruiting that certain other SEC staffs put in. Its good we are hiring some help from some coaches that do understand it and like putting in the effort but we still have too many on staff that don't really want to do it. Mullen and some of his cohorts are just not natural recruiters and never will be. We will always HAVE to be a "developmental" program when we can't recruit at the level of the other schools in our division.

That's right. We are filling classes with guys like the one who was trucked in this video. I have no confidence that we will close strong this year either.

[msbulldog]

Now I know that Starkville isn't a mecca for entertainment and isn't "appealing" to a lot of people, but I have never bought that as a reason we weren't successful in signing players. It's never seemed to have bothered the baseball program, and Howland surely hasn't alluded to that hampering his program in his short year and a half here.

Unfortunately, it does have more to do with opening a checkbook more than most folks want to admit. Everyone plays the game, some to a greater extent than others. We have never had the coordinated....let's call it "network" that most folks have. Where people get in trouble is they try to expand their boundaries when they should be satisfied in staying within their home area. I've never been in the drug business, but I imagine it works in a similar way as far as "your turf" and "my turf". As long as everyone stays within their own turf, all things go along smoothly. When someone gets greedy and tries to move into someone else's turf, then all hell breaks loose. I would imagine if someone did this in the recruiting game, it would turn out the same way*.

If we had a coordinated "Network" of our own, and kept within our own turf, we would be getting more, if not most, of these players that has been alluded to. Until that happens, keep expecting more of the same.

Yea we have had a Network of our own before, I hope it has gone away.

[msstate7]

Even with the extra benefits part excluded, I just don't believe our staff in general puts the effort into recruiting that certain other SEC staffs put in. Its good we are hiring some help from some coaches that do understand it and like putting in the effort but we still have too many on staff that don't really want to do it. Mullen and some of his cohorts are just not natural recruiters and never will be. We will always HAVE to be a "developmental" program when we can't recruit at the level of the other schools in our division.

Has freeze and company quit putting forth effort in recruiting this year (mid-50s)? Or have they finally had to face some of the realities that our staff has had to recruiting against the lsus, auburns, and bamas without mass cheating?

[Todd4State]

Now I know that Starkville isn't a mecca for entertainment and isn't "appealing" to a lot of people, but I have never bought that as a reason we weren't successful in signing players. It's never seemed to have bothered the baseball program, and Howland surely hasn't alluded to that hampering his program in his short year and a half here.

Unfortunately, it does have more to do with opening a checkbook more than most folks want to admit. Everyone plays the game, some to a greater extent than others. We have never had the coordinated....let's call it "network" that most folks have. Where people get in trouble is they try to expand their boundaries when they should be satisfied in staying within their home area. I've never been in the drug business, but I imagine it works in a similar way as far as "your turf" and "my turf". As long as everyone stays within their own turf, all things go along smoothly. When someone gets greedy and tries to move into someone else's turf, then all hell breaks loose. I would imagine if someone did this in the recruiting game, it would turn out the same way*.

If we had a coordinated "Network" of our own, and kept within our own turf, we would be getting more, if not most, of these players that has been alluded to. Until that happens, keep expecting more of the same.

Here’s the problem with our recruiting in a nutshell. Look at how we handled Cam Newton- before Will Redmond mind you- and how Ole Miss handled Shea Patterson. Cam was a program changing QB and we knew that but he wanted money. How did Dan react? By bitching out and not only not doing it but also almost getting the conference in trouble by turning Auburn in which made the SEC mad at us. Ole Miss pays Patterson, gives his Dad a house in Biloxi, his brother a job, and who knows what else. Yes, it might cost them dearly down the road but that’s the price you pay for paying recruits outside of your state.

As far as a network of boosters- I’m sure we could put one together. Stansbury managed to use one for how long and didn’t get caught? He even got away with the Renardo Sidney saga on his end at least. My thought is Dan doesn’t use it. Why? Because Keenum says he will be in trouble if he gets caught by the NCAA? Hey Dan- how about NOT getting caught instead of just being a bitch and use the University President as a crutch for your failures? And again, of course this doesn’t explain his lack of recruiting BEFORE that- see Cam and see the Army AAG debacle which were both before Redmond’s recruitment.

The bottom line is Dan and his staff other than a few notable exceptions such as Tony Hughes, Terrell Buckley and Tim Brewster among others simply do not place enough emphasis on recruiting. And it absolutely is killing our football program and limiting our ceiling unnecessarily. Forget cheating- how about signing a full class so that we aren’t under the 85 man scholarship limit despite the fact that we have very little attrition on our roster? How about personnel management such as not realizing you only have two WR’s over 6’2” on your roster before the spring game? And we still don’t have a clue who our center will actually be next year- but odds are it will be a sophomore or even a freshman which is a recipe for disaster. All because apparently we can’t make out a depth chart that projects out five years from now. And then there are the overly strict guideline such as basically paying zero attention to anyone that doesn’t show up to Big Dawg Camp, at one time only going after JUCO players that will graduate in December, and the walk-ons only allowed kicker program that we have right now. Croom was not a good recruiter either- but at least by the end of his tenure you could tell that he made progress. Dan- not so much.

I don’t buy the Starkville hurts us in football recruiting theory. I have been to every SEC town, and you can’t tell me that a player chooses Auburn because of the town of Auburn, or Alabama because of Tuscaloosa, and here’s the bomb- or yes, even Ole Miss because of Oxford. There’s not a lot of difference between most college towns I have been to- there’s always some nook for the college students to hang out at and some dive bar/hamburger/pizza type places and a couple of really nice restaurants. And even Starkville has that. If anything Starkville has an advantage because a lot of our places our newer. Not that the football players are really paying that much attention to it in the first place. Our atmosphere is on par with what you would expect for a SEC school, and the facilities are on par if not top notch.

And back to recruiting- does anyone else notice all of the strange things we do? Like take a recruit a designate him as the “leader” of the class and basically try to get him to recruit all of his friends who are high level recruits? That may be commonplace, but I do wonder if Dan does that so that he doesn’t have to get out and recruit as much. Or Michael Story’s recruitment where we basically tried to keep him incognito so that Ole Miss wouldn’t offer and we wouldn’t have to compete with them? And how Dan is always one of the only SEC coaches wanting an early signing period?

The bottom line is Dan needs to start shitting or get off the pot when it comes to recruiting.

[Todd4State]

Has freeze and company quit putting forth effort in recruiting this year (mid-50s)? Or have they finally had to face some of the realities that our staff has had to recruiting against the lsus, auburns, and bamas without mass cheating?

Willie Gay says no.

[RocketDawg]

Has freeze and company quit putting forth effort in recruiting this year (mid-50s)? Or have they finally had to face some of the realities that our staff has had to recruiting against the lsus, auburns, and bamas without mass cheating?

Not sure they've stopped, but if they have there must be two effects: They got better players by cheating. And ... they're doing worse than they would be doing without the investigations and impending penalties because the recruits don't want to be trapped there.

[msstate7]

Not sure they've stopped, but if they have there must be two effects: They got better players by cheating. And ... they're doing worse than they would be doing without the investigations and impending penalties because the recruits don't want to be trapped there.

They got great players by cheating and the credibility om received by getting the great players allowed them to get a lot of really good players.

[maroonmania]

Has freeze and company quit putting forth effort in recruiting this year (mid-50s)? Or have they finally had to face some of the realities that our staff has had to recruiting against the lsus, auburns, and bamas without mass cheating?

Come on, you are a better poster than that. You know good and well all the effort and extra benefits in the world isn't going to matter when its become clear that the NCAA wants to hammer your program into oblivion. I will say though that they recruited at a high level with the NCAA cloud hanging over them a lot longer than most programs would have.

[msbulldog]

Here’s the problem with our recruiting in a nutshell. Look at how we handled Cam Newton- before Will Redmond mind you- and how Ole Miss handled Shea Patterson. Cam was a program changing QB and we knew that but he wanted money. How did Dan react? By bitching out and not only not doing it but also almost getting the conference in trouble by turning Auburn in which made the SEC mad at us. Ole Miss pays Patterson, gives his Dad a house in Biloxi, his brother a job, and who knows what else. Yes, it might cost them dearly down the road but that’s the price you pay for paying recruits outside of your state.

As far as a network of boosters- I’m sure we could put one together. Stansbury managed to use one for how long and didn’t get caught? He even got away with the Renardo Sidney saga on his end at least. My thought is Dan doesn’t use it. Why? Because Keenum says he will be in trouble if he gets caught by the NCAA? Hey Dan- how about NOT getting caught instead of just being a bitch and use the University President as a crutch for your failures? And again, of course this doesn’t explain his lack of recruiting BEFORE that- see Cam and see the Army AAG debacle which were both before Redmond’s recruitment.

The bottom line is Dan and his staff other than a few notable exceptions such as Tony Hughes, Terrell Buckley and Tim Brewster among others simply do not place enough emphasis on recruiting. And it absolutely is killing our football program and limiting our ceiling unnecessarily. Forget cheating- how about signing a full class so that we aren’t under the 85 man scholarship limit despite the fact that we have very little attrition on our roster? How about personnel management such as not realizing you only have two WR’s over 6’2” on your roster before the spring game? And we still don’t have a clue who our center will actually be next year- but odds are it will be a sophomore or even a freshman which is a recipe for disaster. All because apparently we can’t make out a depth chart that projects out five years from now. And then there are the overly strict guideline such as basically paying zero attention to anyone that doesn’t show up to Big Dawg Camp, at one time only going after JUCO players that will graduate in December, and the walk-ons only allowed kicker program that we have right now. Croom was not a good recruiter either- but at least by the end of his tenure you could tell that he made progress. Dan- not so much.

I don’t buy the Starkville hurts us in football recruiting theory. I have been to every SEC town, and you can’t tell me that a player chooses Auburn because of the town of Auburn, or Alabama because of Tuscaloosa, and here’s the bomb- or yes, even Ole Miss because of Oxford. There’s not a lot of difference between most college towns I have been to- there’s always some nook for the college students to hang out at and some dive bar/hamburger/pizza type places and a couple of really nice restaurants. And even Starkville has that. If anything Starkville has an advantage because a lot of our places our newer. Not that the football players are really paying that much attention to it in the first place. Our atmosphere is on par with what you would expect for a SEC school, and the facilities are on par if not top notch.

And back to recruiting- does anyone else notice all of the strange things we do? Like take a recruit a designate him as the “leader” of the class and basically try to get him to recruit all of his friends who are high level recruits? That may be commonplace, but I do wonder if Dan does that so that he doesn’t have to get out and recruit as much. Or Michael Story’s recruitment where we basically tried to keep him incognito so that Ole Miss wouldn’t offer and we wouldn’t have to compete with them? And how Dan is always one of the only SEC coaches wanting an early signing period?

The bottom line is Dan needs to start shitting or get off the pot when it comes to recruiting.

And damn Todd I thought you only knew about baseball, lol! Great post all good points, rep given.

[Todd4State]

They got great players by cheating and the credibility om received by getting the great players allowed them to get a lot of really good players.

The thing you are missing is no one is saying that we should go to Texas, Florida, Georgia, and pay off the top recruits in those states that the Alabama’s and Georgia’s are going after at all. That’s what Ole Miss did- and that’s what they are going to pay for.

What we’re getting at is we need a Network to protect us from Ole Miss pulling another Army AA debacle or Golden Triangle meltdown like last year. Or to allow us to keep our in state recruits away from Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and Tennessee. The NCAA has made a very clear line that they don’t care what goes on with your respective in state guys. But don’t cross the line into other states and start taking those recruits with maybe a few exceptions like Auburn getting a player from west Georgia or Ole Miss getting a player from Memphis.

If you don’t believe me wait until Ole Miss’s sanctions are handed out this spring or summer. Or you can ask CJ Johnson. As far as what Ole Miss is doing now with their current class the investigation is hurting them with the in state players because that’s what the NCAA is forcing them to revert back to ultimately. If they weren’t under investigation I can almost guarantee you that we would be have a more difficult time with our current class as it is. Dan can only rely on the NCAA to help him out for so long- and the fact of the matter is I don’t see him changing much if at all other than a few cursory moves like hiring Peterson and then putting him in a position where he is limited because he can’t recruit off campus because he is unwilling to demote or fire one of his country club boys.

[Todd4State]

And damn Todd I thought you only knew about baseball, lol! Great post all good points, rep given.

Thank you! The only Rebels I like are West Monroe Rebels.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

The thing you are missing is no one is saying that we should go to Texas, Florida, Georgia, and pay off the top recruits in those states that the Alabama?s and Georgia?s are going after at all. That?s what Ole Miss did- and that?s what they are going to pay for.

What we?re getting at is we need a Network to protect us from Ole Miss pulling another Army AA debacle or Golden Triangle meltdown like last year. Or to allow us to keep our in state recruits away from Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and Tennessee. The NCAA has made a very clear line that they don?t care what goes on with your respective in state guys. But don?t cross the line into other states and start taking those recruits with maybe a few exceptions like Auburn getting a player from west Georgia or Ole Miss getting a player from Memphis.

If you don?t believe me wait until Ole Miss?s sanctions are handed out this spring or summer. Or you can ask CJ Johnson. As far as what Ole Miss is doing now with their current class the investigation is hurting them with the in state players because that?s what the NCAA is forcing them to revert back to ultimately. If they weren?t under investigation I can almost guarantee you that we would be have a more difficult time with our current class as it is. Dan can only rely on the NCAA to help him out for so long- and the fact of the matter is I don?t see him changing much if at all other than a few cursory moves like hiring Peterson and then putting him in a position where he is limited because he can?t recruit off campus because he is unwilling to demote or fire one of his country club boys.

This was the exact gist of my post on pg 1 when talking about staying on your own turf and playing the game. Bama, Auburn and LSU aren't going to say a word if we keep a guy like Davis home because they expect us to...because they are doing the same thing on their turf. OM got greedy way too fast and it bit them in the ass. As painful as its been watching their success these past few years, I'm glad they did make the mistake of getting greedy. If not, and they stayed on their own turf, it still would have allowed them to get ahead of us without any of the repercussions that are coming.

[maroonmania]

Here’s the problem with our recruiting in a nutshell. Look at how we handled Cam Newton- before Will Redmond mind you- and how Ole Miss handled Shea Patterson. Cam was a program changing QB and we knew that but he wanted money. How did Dan react? By bitching out and not only not doing it but also almost getting the conference in trouble by turning Auburn in which made the SEC mad at us. Ole Miss pays Patterson, gives his Dad a house in Biloxi, his brother a job, and who knows what else. Yes, it might cost them dearly down the road but that’s the price you pay for paying recruits outside of your state.

As far as a network of boosters- I’m sure we could put one together. Stansbury managed to use one for how long and didn’t get caught? He even got away with the Renardo Sidney saga on his end at least. My thought is Dan doesn’t use it. Why? Because Keenum says he will be in trouble if he gets caught by the NCAA? Hey Dan- how about NOT getting caught instead of just being a bitch and use the University President as a crutch for your failures? And again, of course this doesn’t explain his lack of recruiting BEFORE that- see Cam and see the Army AAG debacle which were both before Redmond’s recruitment.

The bottom line is Dan and his staff other than a few notable exceptions such as Tony Hughes, Terrell Buckley and Tim Brewster among others simply do not place enough emphasis on recruiting. And it absolutely is killing our football program and limiting our ceiling unnecessarily. Forget cheating- how about signing a full class so that we aren’t under the 85 man scholarship limit despite the fact that we have very little attrition on our roster? How about personnel management such as not realizing you only have two WR’s over 6’2” on your roster before the spring game? And we still don’t have a clue who our center will actually be next year- but odds are it will be a sophomore or even a freshman which is a recipe for disaster. All because apparently we can’t make out a depth chart that projects out five years from now. And then there are the overly strict guideline such as basically paying zero attention to anyone that doesn’t show up to Big Dawg Camp, at one time only going after JUCO players that will graduate in December, and the walk-ons only allowed kicker program that we have right now. Croom was not a good recruiter either- but at least by the end of his tenure you could tell that he made progress. Dan- not so much.

I don’t buy the Starkville hurts us in football recruiting theory. I have been to every SEC town, and you can’t tell me that a player chooses Auburn because of the town of Auburn, or Alabama because of Tuscaloosa, and here’s the bomb- or yes, even Ole Miss because of Oxford. There’s not a lot of difference between most college towns I have been to- there’s always some nook for the college students to hang out at and some dive bar/hamburger/pizza type places and a couple of really nice restaurants. And even Starkville has that. If anything Starkville has an advantage because a lot of our places our newer. Not that the football players are really paying that much attention to it in the first place. Our atmosphere is on par with what you would expect for a SEC school, and the facilities are on par if not top notch.

And back to recruiting- does anyone else notice all of the strange things we do? Like take a recruit a designate him as the “leader” of the class and basically try to get him to recruit all of his friends who are high level recruits? That may be commonplace, but I do wonder if Dan does that so that he doesn’t have to get out and recruit as much. Or Michael Story’s recruitment where we basically tried to keep him incognito so that Ole Miss wouldn’t offer and we wouldn’t have to compete with them? And how Dan is always one of the only SEC coaches wanting an early signing period?

The bottom line is Dan needs to start shitting or get off the pot when it comes to recruiting.

Wasn't it just a few weeks ago we had the 'rumor' from Random Poster that we don't even attempt to go after certain recruits if we find out some of the SEC top programs are after them? Sounds like the same attitude our basketball program had about top basketball recruits before Rick Stansbury showed up. Basically being that, we shouldn't even waste our time on most recruits top programs go after because we can't get them.

[msstate7]

Wasn't it just a few weeks ago we had the 'rumor' from Random Poster that we don't even attempt to go after certain recruits if we find out some of the SEC top programs are after them? Sounds like the same attitude our basketball program had about top basketball recruits before Rick Stansbury showed up. Basically being that, we shouldn't even waste our time on most recruits top programs go after because we can't get them.

There were also rumors here that Patterson wasn't eligible to play bc of the NCAA. There's a lot of good info here and some complete BS.

[Bothrops]

How many more homegrown recruits is this staff going to miss on before someone at the higher levels of MSU gets in their ass about it?

If I remember, we also may have wanted to move him to OL.

Want to know why yesterday happened, it right in front of your eyes. It's right here.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DLineVids/status/797734780066529280

We aren't getting the most out the ones we have. Mainly on defense. That's a much bigger problem than recruiting.

[Todd4State]

This was the exact gist of my post on pg 1 when talking about staying on your own turf and playing the game. Bama, Auburn and LSU aren't going to say a word if we keep a guy like Davis home because they expect us to...because they are doing the same thing on their turf. OM got greedy way too fast and it bit them in the ass. As painful as its been watching their success these past few years, I'm glad they did make the mistake of getting greedy. If not, and they stayed on their own turf, it still would have allowed them to get ahead of us without any of the repercussions that are coming.

Their problem is ironically they would have a lot of trouble competing with us for in state talent as long as we had a great recruiter. We have a lot of advantages over them that we don’t often point out. We’re the largest university in the state. Our fans stay more local than theirs in general. We don’t promote racist symbols and have often times been on the forefront of that issue- the basketball team in 1963, integrating our football team before Ole Miss did with Frank Dowsing, willing to play Jackson State, Alcorn, and we would play Valley if they had enough scholarship players in football which is something that Ole Miss has yet to do, and honestly a more loyal fan base in terms of being fair weather. We are also on par or better than they are in terms of atmosphere (better actually), facilities, and now even our tailgating is about on par with theirs.

Our problem is Dan being unwilling for the most part to compete with them for the kids that want “help” for a lack of better words. Had he been willing to do so, we probably would have landed most of the ones that Ole Miss coveted.

But in many ways we forced them to go out because the fact of the matter also is there are kids that aren’t interested in “help” and we have often times landed those players. Ole Miss has also had a hard time identifying some of the undercover types in the state like the Benardrick McKinney’s. We complain about missing the Walter Payton’s, Jerry Rice’s, and Brett Favre’s- Ole Miss missed them just as much as we did.

Their fans are also overly obsessed with recruiting and want to see Ole Miss listed up there with the Alabama’s, Oklahoma’s, Michigan’s, and etc. and they’re simply not going to get that with recruiting mainly Mississippi players. And oh yeah- we beat them three years in a row so they knew that the only way to start beating us consistently was to build a team like the ones that Dan has had trouble beating his entire career- which would be Alabama and LSU. But the only way to do that was to cheat their tails off.

[ShotgunDawg]

Clemson finds a way to recruit to a smaller town than Starkville

[Todd4State]

Wasn't it just a few weeks ago we had the 'rumor' from Random Poster that we don't even attempt to go after certain recruits if we find out some of the SEC top programs are after them? Sounds like the same attitude our basketball program had about top basketball recruits before Rick Stansbury showed up. Basically being that, we shouldn't even waste our time on most recruits top programs go after because we can't get them.

I'm not going to pretend that I know everything that goes on within our football program with regards to who we do and don't look at. But I don't doubt that it was true because of Dan's general attitude towards recruiting.

My impression is Dan wants recruiting to go like this:

Kid commits. Kid doesn't take any more visits and it's over. Unfortunately it just doesn't work like that. Heck, I'm as big a MSU fan as you will probably find and in high school I even went and looked at Alabama and Tennessee. We simply can't expect high school kids to not take visits and do things like that. It's completely unrealistic. Recruiting is a selling job. And you have to sell until the ink is dry on the LOI. And yes, you have to sell even if it's a kid from Starkville or West Point in your own backyard. Some of the things we do are completely frustrating for those of us who do follow recruiting and see the warning signs and then we have a season like this.

[Todd4State]

There were also rumors here that Patterson wasn't eligible to play bc of the NCAA. There's a lot of good info here and some complete BS.

Don't forget that Laremy Tunsil wasn't suspended a year either. And that was way more public than Patterson and his house in Biloxi.

[Bass Chaser]

Clemson finds a way to recruit to a smaller town than Starkville

And Dabo is a lot like Freeze except worse.

[lamont]

Here is what everyone needs to understand:

State or OM is never going to get good enough to be a power in the SEC. When Jackie had us on our run- OM couldnt handle it and started turning us in regularly- as did other schools. No protection from the SEC-and we go on probation. They dont really want a Mississippi school stealing thunder. OM starts getting good and stealing players with Auburn-like aggression- they get turned in by everyone and go on probation.

OM fans are correct in that other schools are mad cause they were doing it better than them. OM just went more blatant than the rest- but Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Fla, etc pay kids and handlers to get players away from each other. Slive came in and stopped SEC schools from turning each other in- and that elevated the conference even higher because Tennessee couldnt turn Bama in any longer and such.

OM keeps trying to get back to the big boy table- they just arent allowed to. We have just kind of accepted we never will be

[msstate7]

Here is what everyone needs to understand:

State or OM is never going to get good enough to be a power in the SEC. When Jackie had us on our run- OM couldnt handle it and started turning us in regularly- as did other schools. No protection from the SEC-and we go on probation. They dont really want a Mississippi school stealing thunder. OM starts getting good and stealing players with Auburn-like aggression- they get turned in by everyone and go on probation.

OM fans are correct in that other schools are mad cause they were doing it better than them. OM just went more blatant than the rest- but Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Fla, etc pay kids and handlers to get players away from each other. Slive came in and stopped SEC schools from turning each other in- and that elevated the conference even higher because Tennessee couldnt turn Bama in any longer and such.

OM keeps trying to get back to the big boy table- they just arent allowed to. We have just kind of accepted we never will be

Sad, but I agree

[Leroy Jenkins]

Clemson finds a way to recruit to a smaller town than Starkville

Aaaaaand... The Princeton Review cited the town of Clemson as ranking #1 in the United States for "town-and-gown" relations with its resident university

[ShotgunDawg]

To watch that game yesterday & realize we aren't even in the game for Cam Akers, a 5* RB at an MSU school, absolutely makes me want to throw up

It's pathetic. Why even have a football program if you have no interest in winning?

[ScottH]

My biggest issue is what I believe to be a lack of staff effort.

I fully realize we may not can be in the top third of the conference annually in recruiting.

But there's absolutely no reason we can't annually fall 20-30 nationally. With the occasional really high year.

You may not can control a recruit's interest in coming to MSU but you damn sure can control how hard you work in finding recruits that are interested.

[smootness]

It's pathetic. Why even have a football program if you have no interest in winning?

Holy crap.

[msbulldog]

Thank you! The only Rebels I like are West Monroe Rebels.

Hell I don't even like them.

[PonderThis1]

To watch that game yesterday & realize we aren't even in the game for Cam Akers, a 5* RB at an MSU school, absolutely makes me want to throw up

It's pathetic. Why even have a football program if you have no interest in winning?

are you a miserable human all the time or just when you post?

[ShotgunDawg]

are you a miserable human all the time or just when you post?

All the time. I live in misery

[PonderThis1]

We probably never will consistently get recruits that the big boys want (if you're Cam Akers, why would you want to go to state when you can go to a place that consistently is playing for championships and develops RBs?) but we can outwork people. Mike Norvell at Memphis has a 4 star kid committed to them and some pretty solid 3* guys. I am pretty sure Memphis isn’t paying football players. We just need to cut the fat and hire some guys that know how to recruit.

[Cooterpoot]

I'd pull 72's scholarship for that and tell Williams to transfer for not moving and taking the sack.

[HSVDawg]

Perhaps more attention should have been payed to the decision maker.

Lashley committed as well. AJ Brown....well I'm sure you saw him last night.

The helpless attitude is nauseating. Figure out how the system works.

Are you implying that the "attention" that needs to be paid to the "decision makers" is something that falls in Mullen's lap? If so, I'm not sure your totally understanding of how the process works. Unless you want us to be staring at what OM is looking at over the next couple of years then that is not the way to go.

There is no question we need to recruit better, but you are laying way too much on Mullen's feet and not enough on the guys that do the real recruiting for us.

[HSVDawg]

Willie Gay says no.

What? Pretty sure he decommitted from OM some time ago and we are now the favorite.

[BankerDog]

Aaaaaand... The Princeton Review cited the town of Clemson as ranking #1 in the United States for "town-and-gown" relations with its resident university


Clemson also has a lot more money to spend then we do. You haven't been around recruiting very long in the state of Mississippi have you? Let me clarify a little something, most of these guys don't even get to go to the school they really wanna attend.

Bama can have Lashley and Knott and Davis, it gave us Simmons.

[HSVDawg]

Clemson also has a lot more money to spend then we do. You haven't been around recruiting very long in the state of Mississippi have you? Let me clarify a little something, most of these guys don't even get to go to the school they really wanna attend.

Bama can have Lashley and Knott and Davis, it gave us Simmons.

Meh, Clemson has about the same financial resources that we do. Their overall athletic budget is only about $90 million and they have similar enrollment and therefore similar alumni numbers as us to serve as a support base for recruiting. They do have some geographic advantages that we don't due to closer recruiting proximity to Atlanta and some other dense talent areas, but overall they are very similar. Probably the most similar Power 5 school to MSU in the country.

[smootness]

Meh, Clemson has about the same financial resources that we do. Their overall athletic budget is only about $90 million and they have similar enrollment and therefore similar alumni numbers as us to serve as a support base for recruiting. They do have some geographic advantages that we don't due to closer recruiting proximity to Atlanta and some other dense talent areas, but overall they are very similar. Probably the most similar Power 5 school to MSU in the country.

So more resources, a much better talent pool, weaker competition, and a far better program history? Doesn't sound that similar.

It doesn't matter where we rank nationally, it matters where we rank within the SEC. I don't know why this has to be said over and over.

[HSVDawg]

So more resources, a much better talent pool, weaker competition, and a far better program history? Doesn't sound that similar.

It doesn't matter where we rank nationally, it matters where we rank within the SEC. I don't know why this has to be said over and over.

They don't have more resources, that was the whole point of the post. And the talent pool is not night and day better either, but unfortunately pretty much every Power 5 school south of the Mason Dixon line is going to have more local players to recruit than we will. As far as the level of competition, that matters but Clemson would still be a damn solid team even in the SEC west, and they proved that last January. As far as history, from the mid eighties to around 2000 the programs were very similar in that department. Clemson went on to be very average for the 10 years that followed while we completely tanked. In the 6 years since, they have an edge although both programs have been solid.

Overall, I never said they were identical, but the town and university dynamic of Clemson matches ours more closely than any other school does.

[smootness]

They don't have more resources, that was the whole point of the post. And the talent pool is not night and day better either, but unfortunately pretty much every Power 5 school south of the Mason Dixon line is going to have more local players to recruit than we will. As far as the level of competition, that matters but Clemson would still be a damn solid team even in the SEC west, and they proved that last January. As far as history, from the mid eighties to around 2000 the programs were very similar in that department. Clemson went on to be very average for the 10 years that followed while we completely tanked. In the 6 years since, they have an edge although both programs have been solid.

Overall, I never said they were identical, but the town and university dynamic of Clemson matches ours more closely than any other school does.

They do have more resources. Maybe not by a whole lot, but they do have more.

Now, regarding history: You bizarrely singled out one stretch of time in the entire histories of the programs. So you acknowledge that Clemson was definitely better before the mid-1980s (where they won a national title, a bid advantage) and after 2000. Well, even in that stretch you highlighted, from 1985-2000, they won 29 more games than we did, went to 7 more bowl games, and won 4 conference titles.

So...you agree that their history is far better than ours.

[Leroy Jenkins]

They do have more resources. Maybe not by a whole lot, but they do have more.

Now, regarding history: You bizarrely singled out one stretch of time in the entire histories of the programs. So you acknowledge that Clemson was definitely better before the mid-1980s (where they won a national title, a bid advantage) and after 2000. Well, even in that stretch you highlighted, from 1985-2000, they won 29 more games than we did, went to 7 more bowl games, and won 4 conference titles.

So...you agree that their history is far better than ours.



The history argument holds no water for me. How many of our recruits were alive then?

[PonderThis1]

You don’t pay kids from your athletic budget. You pay from your alumni’s budget. Clemson is a pretty good school so I am assuming they have a little more cash to deal than we do.

[smootness]

The history argument holds no water for me. How many of our recruits were alive then?

Past history is strongly correlated with current program stature. A lot of people make the argument you're making, but it doesn't hold up. In order to overcome it, in many cases you have to have something rare, like Oregon's money. The programs that have been good tend to remain good, and it is extremely difficult to break through that barrier.

[HSVDawg]

They do have more resources. Maybe not by a whole lot, but they do have more.

Now, regarding history: You bizarrely singled out one stretch of time in the entire histories of the programs. So you acknowledge that Clemson was definitely better before the mid-1980s (where they won a national title, a bid advantage) and after 2000. Well, even in that stretch you highlighted, from 1985-2000, they won 29 more games than we did, went to 7 more bowl games, and won 4 conference titles.

So...you agree that their history is far better than ours.

Their history is better. Who's isn't? But its not like they are Florida State or Notre Dame in that regard. Ole Miss also has a better history than we do over much of those same time periods and by a long shot when you look at all time records. Are they some benchmark program we could never compare ourselves to? Over the last decade or so, there hasn't been a whole lot of separation between the programs.

And in terms or resources, they have a bigger stadium than we do. That is pretty much it. I covered this in another post a while back, but Clemson has had just one top 10 recruting class in the last 5 years. If they are head and shoulders above anything we could ever hope to be, we might as well just shut down the program and pour all those resources into basketball / baseball.

[BB30]

All the time. I live in misery

I can help ya out man, get a hobby other than Miss State football. Hunting,fishing, ping pong anything. Mississippi State football is guaranteed to disappoint you more than it makes you happy. Enjoy the good times and make it through the bad with something else to consume the majority of your time haha. I still go to all of the games good or bad, rain or shine. But, during the bad years I certainly spend more time on other hobbies/addictions such as hunting, fishing etc.

[NELA Dawg]

Hell I don't even like them.

Then move to Monroe. I have 2 that graduated from WMHS and you would be hard pressed to find a better public high school.

[NELA Dawg]

Here is what everyone needs to understand:

State or OM is never going to get good enough to be a power in the SEC. When Jackie had us on our run- OM couldnt handle it and started turning us in regularly- as did other schools. No protection from the SEC-and we go on probation. They dont really want a Mississippi school stealing thunder. OM starts getting good and stealing players with Auburn-like aggression- they get turned in by everyone and go on probation.

OM fans are correct in that other schools are mad cause they were doing it better than them. OM just went more blatant than the rest- but Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Fla, etc pay kids and handlers to get players away from each other. Slive came in and stopped SEC schools from turning each other in- and that elevated the conference even higher because Tennessee couldnt turn Bama in any longer and such.

OM keeps trying to get back to the big boy table- they just arent allowed to. We have just kind of accepted we never will be

In my opinion, the only 2 coaches in my life time that I knew that tried to play the game was Bob Tyler and JWS. And we know what happened. I don't think the powers to be really want to go down that path again. Unfortunately that is how the game is played now. We either play the game or we except our ceiling being 10 wins. And I am torn on whether I want to play the game or stay clean.

[Reunion Dog]

Imagine that on this board...

[Reunion Dog]

Tell 'em coursesuper.... If anyone understands Waynesboro...aka land that time forgot.... It would be you...

[Lance Harbor]

Jackie had this network. I'm not sure where it went.



The thing you are missing is no one is saying that we should go to Texas, Florida, Georgia, and pay off the top recruits in those states that the Alabama?s and Georgia?s are going after at all. That?s what Ole Miss did- and that?s what they are going to pay for.

What we?re getting at is we need a Network to protect us from Ole Miss pulling another Army AA debacle or Golden Triangle meltdown like last year. Or to allow us to keep our in state recruits away from Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and Tennessee. The NCAA has made a very clear line that they don?t care what goes on with your respective in state guys. But don?t cross the line into other states and start taking those recruits with maybe a few exceptions like Auburn getting a player from west Georgia or Ole Miss getting a player from Memphis.

If you don?t believe me wait until Ole Miss?s sanctions are handed out this spring or summer. Or you can ask CJ Johnson. As far as what Ole Miss is doing now with their current class the investigation is hurting them with the in state players because that?s what the NCAA is forcing them to revert back to ultimately. If they weren?t under investigation I can almost guarantee you that we would be have a more difficult time with our current class as it is. Dan can only rely on the NCAA to help him out for so long- and the fact of the matter is I don?t see him changing much if at all other than a few cursory moves like hiring Peterson and then putting him in a position where he is limited because he can?t recruit off campus because he is unwilling to demote or fire one of his country club boys.

[smootness]

Their history is better. Who's isn't? But its not like they are Florida State or Notre Dame in that regard. Ole Miss also has a better history than we do over much of those same time periods and by a long shot when you look at all time records. Are they some benchmark program we could never compare ourselves to? Over the last decade or so, there hasn't been a whole lot of separation between the programs.

And in terms or resources, they have a bigger stadium than we do. That is pretty much it. I covered this in another post a while back, but Clemson has had just one top 10 recruting class in the last 5 years. If they are head and shoulders above anything we could ever hope to be, we might as well just shut down the program and pour all those resources into basketball / baseball.

Did I say they are head and shoulders above anything we could ever hope to be? You seemed to suggest that there is virtually nothing currently separating them from us. That is a ridiculous claim, that's all I was pointing out.

And their advantage in resources is due to an advantage in annual revenue. It's not a gigantic gap, but they have an advantage there.

[Lance Harbor]

Clemson finds a way to recruit to a smaller town than Starkville

This. As someone who has lived and worked in Clemson I can tell you far and away that Starkville is bigger, has a better night life/bar/music scene, better Greek life/infrastructure (if that's what you're into) and just as nice a campus.

I've discussed this ad nauseum with friends that are in Clemson that are UGA, Auburn, USCe, and college of Charleston grads. We just don't get it. Clemson is basically Ackerman near the mountains with a really nice lake and a university.

What Clemson does have: a fantastic stadium and game day atmosphere. As another poster pointed out they have a great alumni network and they are cultish (like aTm) and wear their class rings with pride and believe that Clemson is where Jesus was born. They have a "Network" as well. They pull players from Florida, NC & Virginia that they probably shouldn't be in the game for. They really turned the corner about 4 years ago in recruiting when they focused on the state of Georgia. They were shut out the year before in Georgia and doubled down on recruiting that state and hired assistants with good ties to Georgia. Hence Deshaun Watson. Wayne Gallman. Kimdeche committed (for a while). Also Spurrier quit recruiting and SC went down and Clemson started getting the top players in SC. Dabo is a relentless recruiter. He is a full of shit windbag that won't shut up, but he believes in his message and kids and their parents love him.

Clemson also benefits from Greenville just down the road and a robust economy in the mid atlantic and Southeast. Very Pro Growth. 35% of their student population is from out of state. Largest out of state population is from....wait for it....New Jersey. They recruit students well in the Northeast. It's a top 20 Public University and they made it a goal to get there ten years ago and have.

Bottom Line. They have taken a podunk town and made it a football mecca by hiring the right people and all pulling in the same direction. Fantastic Leadership and stability in that leadership along with a billion dollar fundraising machine and over 250 million in Campus upgrades ongoing. MSU is capable of Clemson status and has made strides to get there. It just needs dedicated, visionary leadership and a unified, dedicated fan base. Also it may should secede from the death spiral that is the state of Mississippi. (I kid...sort of)