OM Loses Another Croot

[ShotgunDawg]

4 Star DE from Baton Rouge Bryan Jones.

How much longer will Bowie stick with them?

We've got to get our house in order opportunities are near.

[Taog Redloh]

For 2016 recruiting purposes, it would be best to keep everything intact as it is now. I know many of you want to blow shit up, but it's the wrong move.

RISE (https://youtu.be/cAoQTDwl_Ag?t=2m27s)

[Todd4State]

If we stay with what we have now we will hurt ourselves more in recruiting this year AND next year. If we keep the staff intact then you will say the exact same thing about some recruits next year as well.

And yes we may lose a recruit or two by Dan leaving. I'm not denying that. But we also will probably pick up a recruit or two as well- just as we picked up Bumphis when Croom left. It goes both ways and it's usually best to do what's best long term even if it means losing someone.

[Todd4State]

4 Star DE from Baton Rouge Bryan Jones.

How much longer will Bowie stick with them?

We've got to get our house in order opportunities are near.


Their fate is drawing near. They parlayed three first round picks and a veteran laden team into a good season. But the writing is on the wall. They've set themselves back five years in the process and I'm only counting the current accusations. When the next wave of accuasations hit it will set them back even more.

[Commercecomet24]

Words getting around on the bears ain't it? It's not if anymore, it's when! They're staring at a 6-6 or 5-7 season a recruiting class that's gonna be in the 40's if they're lucky and a big time hammering by the ncaa. Don't look like they got very much return on their investment if you ask me.

[civildawg]

If we stay with what we have now we will hurt ourselves more in recruiting this year AND next year. If we keep the staff intact then you will say the exact same thing about some recruits next year as well.

And yes we may lose a recruit or two by Dan leaving. I'm not denying that. But we also will probably pick up a recruit or two as well- just as we picked up Bumphis when Croom left. It goes both ways and it's usually best to do what's best long term even if it means losing someone.

Thank you for common sense. Some people just dont get it.

[ShotgunDawg]

Thank you for common sense. Some people just dont get it.

Disagree, I think most people on this board DO get it. It's just that it's much more complicated than some want to admit. I'm to the point where I ignore the people that are strongly on one side or the other. It's the people in the middle that have completely thought it through, that have the best points.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Back to the topic at hand. OM is really taking on water. It's not looking good on that side.

Updated team rankings for OM

52- Scout
58- Rivals
53- 247

[Commercecomet24]

Disagree, I think most people on this board DO get it. It's just that it's much more complicated than some want to admit. I'm to the point where I ignore the people that are strongly on one side or the other. It's the people in the middle that have completely thought it through, that have the best points.

I'm at this point as well. There's to much emotion on either side. Hate and/or love sway judgement.

[Commercecomet24]

Back to the topic at hand. OM is really taking on water. It's not looking good on that side.

Updated team rankings for OM

52- Scout
58- Rivals
53- 247

Really hoping we take advantage!

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Really hoping we take advantage!

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Bowie will stick because he grew up in and around OM fans. He is one that will go there because he genuinely wants to.

[Taog Redloh]

Thank you for common sense. Some people just dont get it.

For people with your POV to talk about common sense is ironic to say the least.

[ShotgunDawg]

Bowie will stick because he grew up in and around OM fans. He is one that will go there because he genuinely wants to.


Fair enough. If true, I've actually always respected these types and can root for them

[Commercecomet24]

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.

Agree on all those points! My son goes to school with Abrams and he wears State stuff everyday, fwiw. You think we make some staff changes on offense? I like how our class is lining up.

[Coursesuper]

The simple fact is Mullen will not be fired this year, whether we win 2 or 3 and even if we are skull drug by the bears. If he leaves on his own so be it, thanks have a nice life. If he stays we can't afford wholesale staff changes, that said Hevesy has to go he is killing us on the field but more importantly he is an absolute albatross on the recruiting trail. Knox has recruited Jackson ok and Salich can be moved off the field. This scenario may be the best we get this year.

[AROB44]

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.


This makes perfect sense....really hope it happens this way.

[preachermatt83]

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.

This!!!!! Keep Mullen , cut the fat(Hev,Knox,sallach)

[Jack Lambert]

The simple fact is Mullen will not be fired this year, whether we win 2 or 3 and even if we are skull drug by the bears. If he leaves on his own so be it, thanks have a nice life. If he stays we can't afford wholesale staff changes, that said Hevesy has to go he is killing us on the field but more importantly he is an absolute albatross on the recruiting trail. Knox has recruited Jackson ok and Salich can be moved off the field. This scenario may be the best we get this year.

I think in a weird kind of way a poor season could help recruiting. The recruits know Mullen is here.

[Taog Redloh]

I think in a weird kind of way a poor season could help recruiting. The recruits know Mullen is here.

It worked for Nutt in 2011. That class was the foundation of what Ole Miss did through 2015.

[Corn Bread]

This makes perfect sense....really hope it happens this way.

Spoke with a friend who is a bear this morning. The Gay decommitment sent shock waves. He also mentioned the investigation could go another season. That alone would finish recruiting for them. Lastly, he said we are in a much better situation than they are. I have NEVER heard him talk like this.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.

SO you really do want to stay?!!*

[blacklistedbully]

Disagree, I think most people on this board DO get it. It's just that it's much more complicated than some want to admit. I'm to the point where I ignore the people that are strongly on one side or the other. It's the people in the middle that have completely thought it through, that have the best points.

BS. There are people who have completely thought it through and come to a conclusion strongly on one side or the other. It's really not that complicated. Most of us see the same things, but there are varying opinions on how best to go forward.

In my case...I am well aware of the pitfalls if we get rid of Dan. And its very tempting to want to stick with him. I just haven't felt his heart is into it here, and I think his actions have crippled the program he built up. I'm more of the opinion that he will not change significantly enough to turn it around than I am he will suddenly find his passion for this job again.

Despite what some on here continue to claim...those if us who are ready for Dan to move on aren't this way because we are 2-5. We're pissed because we lost to a really shitty USA (that should never happen, even in a down year), looked shitty in a close win over a really shitty UMass, followed that up with an embarrassing performance at home vs a very good AU, then looked uninspired and poorly coached vs a shitty UK.

Having down years at MSU is perfectly acceptable from a W/L POV, but it is not acceptable when we look and play like absolute trash. A down year should be losing to the good SEC teams, and perhaps to the the not-so-good SEC teams, as long as its a battle. It should never...ever give us any of this year's:

1. Loss to USA
2. Close win vs UMass
3. Blowout loss to AU (I don't care that they also destroyed UPig)
4. Loss to a shitty UK (if UK was decent this year, it'd have been ok)

Yet here we stand...less than 2 years removed from a #1 ranking and a berth in the Orange Bowl with ALL FOUR OF THESE!

[PassInterference]

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.

I'd be very good with that.

[blacklistedbully]

I will say this. It is possible Dan, thinking he was gone, lost his edge and let things slip, only to find he was going to be here this year after all. Perhaps he didn't expect the team to falter as much as it did due to his actions, so now he's stuck with reaping what he sowed, and is realizing what a hot mess it is.

Perhaps...if we had a decent O-line and we let our DC get aggressive and do his own thing, we'd be 6-1, even with Dan's other "issues". If Dan is seeing the light and decides to get rid of Hevsey, pay a good O-line coach to come over, and lets our DC get after it...I'd be inclined to want him to stay. But he'd also have to publicly disavow himself of any and all HC opportunities that come up in the future.

If he wants to consider other opportunities, it had better be kept a closely-guarded secret that he publicly denies if it gets out. Tell Keenum and our AD...but deny it to the public. Only way we can sustain good recruiting.

If Dan could do all that, we could become QB-U in the SEC...and win a lot of games despite his other "issues".

[BankerDog]

Our recruiting problem had more of the fact Mullen and Gonzo were campaigning for HC Jobs as well as Hevesy. Mullen turned recruiting over to Sleepy and Tony to evaluate, offer, and get guys to commit. This is why we are in the shape we are in now.

[vv83]

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.

If he coaches with fire like he did his first 3 years here and gets Hevesy out of here I'm all in with Dan and this plan

[FISHDAWG]

I'm at this point as well. There's to much emotion on either side. Hate and/or love sway judgement.

totally agree ... emotion only clouds judgment

[Turfdawg67]

4 Star DE from Baton Rouge Bryan Jones.

How much longer will Bowie stick with them?

We've got to get our house in order opportunities are near.

But, but, but Freeze is such a great Christian recruiter with a heart of gold! And the Grove man! What about the GROVE!! Was it all just a lie?? Next I guess you'll be telling me that their fans are racist,ascot wearing douchebags... sigh.

[MedDawg]

4 Star DE from Baton Rouge Bryan Jones.

How much longer will Bowie stick with them?

We've got to get our house in order opportunities are near.

When he committed, the OM/CL headlines said '4-star Bryan Jones commits to Ole Miss'. Now the OM/CL headlines say '3-star Bryan Jones decommits from OM'. His ratings didn't drop. They simply used his highest rating among the different sites for the commit headlines and the lowest rating among the different sites for the decommit headlines.

[archdog]

Back to the topic at hand. OM is really taking on water. It's not looking good on that side.

Updated team rankings for OM

52- Scout
58- Rivals
53- 247

Quiet period hasn't began yet.

[msstate7]

BS. There are people who have completely thought it through and come to a conclusion strongly on one side or the other. It's really not that complicated. Most of us see the same things, but there are varying opinions on how best to go forward.

In my case...I am well aware of the pitfalls if we get rid of Dan. And its very tempting to want to stick with him. I just haven't felt his heart is into it here, and I think his actions have crippled the program he built up. I'm more of the opinion that he will not change significantly enough to turn it around than I am he will suddenly find his passion for this job again.

Despite what some on here continue to claim...those if us who are ready for Dan to move on aren't this way because we are 2-5. We're pissed because we lost to a really shitty USA (that should never happen, even in a down year), looked shitty in a close win over a really shitty UMass, followed that up with an embarrassing performance at home vs a very good AU, then looked uninspired and poorly coached vs a shitty UK.

Having down years at MSU is perfectly acceptable from a W/L POV, but it is not acceptable when we look and play like absolute trash. A down year should be losing to the good SEC teams, and perhaps to the the not-so-good SEC teams, as long as its a battle. It should never...ever give us any of this year's:

1. Loss to USA
2. Close win vs UMass
3. Blowout loss to AU (I don't care that they also destroyed UPig)
4. Loss to a shitty UK (if UK was decent this year, it'd have been ok)

Yet here we stand...less than 2 years removed from a #1 ranking and a berth in the Orange Bowl with ALL FOUR OF THESE!

Would you fire mark dantonio? The last 3 years, dantonio won the rose, cotton, and was in the playoffs last season. How did he capitalize?

1. Barely beat furman

2. Barely beat a bad ND team

3. Got blew out by byu and Wisconsin at home

4. Lost to Indiana, northwestern, and Maryland.

Currently 2-5

[ILOATHEBears]

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.

How confident do u feel of him staying and secondly staying and making offensive coaching changes? I want to see him do what Gus has done this year. Completely relinquish control of all aspects and be the CEO if he stays

[starkvegasdawg]

Am I the only one wondering how a post about the bears losing another recruit turned into a fire Mullen/keep Mullen thread? Thinking about starting a thread on convenience store fried chicken and setting the over/under at 10 on the number of posts before it becomes about Mullen.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Two recruits in two days. Damn it must suck to be an Ole Miss fan.

[No BS Dawg]

Am I the only one wondering how a post about the bears losing another recruit turned into a fire Mullen/keep Mullen thread? Thinking about starting a thread on convenience store fried chicken and setting the over/under at 10 on the number of posts before it becomes about Mullen.

That is gold, pure gold.

[LC Dawg]

Am I the only one wondering how a post about the bears losing another recruit turned into a fire Mullen/keep Mullen thread? Thinking about starting a thread on convenience store fried chicken and setting the over/under at 10 on the number of posts before it becomes about Mullen.

10 is way too high.

[QuadrupleOption]

Am I the only one wondering how a post about the bears losing another recruit turned into a fire Mullen/keep Mullen thread? Thinking about starting a thread on convenience store fried chicken and setting the over/under at 10 on the number of posts before it becomes about Mullen.

That Mullen mother****er probably likes his chicken fried in the oven. Yankee asshole.

[gravedigger]

Would you fire mark dantonio? The last 3 years, dantonio won the rose, cotton, and was in the playoffs last season. How did he capitalize?

1. Barely beat furman

2. Barely beat a bad ND team

3. Got blew out by byu and Wisconsin at home

4. Lost to Indiana, northwestern, and Maryland.

Currently 2-5

ok, but do also tell us who Dantonio tried to leave Michigan State for and who he switched his agent to.

[maroonmania]

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.

As long as Mullen replaces the current OL coach I can live with him staying. If not, he needs to hit the road. That is about the only move that would show me he is actually serious about really improving our program. Another couple of other coaches could probably go as well but that is the one that does the most damage.

[Commercecomet24]

it would be interesting to see how much support Dan would get back if he got rid of Hevesy.

[Mjoelner34]

Am I the only one wondering how a post about the bears losing another recruit turned into a fire Mullen/keep Mullen thread? Thinking about starting a thread on convenience store fried chicken and setting the over/under at 10 on the number of posts before it becomes about Mullen.

I agree with Mullen. That chicken at the Shell station is the best in town if you get it right as it comes out of the fryer. If you wait, it's like eating a greasy piece of wood with salt on it.

[ShotgunDawg]

it would be interesting to see how much support Dan would get back if he got rid of Hevesy.

If he lands a top 20 class, fires the Hev, and gets Brad Peterson on the field, I'll come crawling back.

Those moves would insinuate that he's willing to do what's necessary to win.

[spiritual_machine2005]

Could Brad Peterson coach the OL?

[msstate7]

Could Brad Peterson coach the OL?

How about tackles/TEs?

[BulldogBear]

10 is way too high.

I say 6

[Todd4State]

Ok so let's keep the coach who hasn't been recruiting well for years and got us on the position we're in and has only landed I think two top 20 classes in two years because we might somehow start magically recruiting well after a likely 3-9 season. That makes sense.**

[Todd4State]

it would be interesting to see how much support Dan would get back if he got rid of Hevesy.

That would be interesting. He would get some back for sure. How much probably depends on who replaces him.

[msstate7]

Ok so let's keep the coach who hasn't been recruiting well for years and got us on the position we're in and has only landed I think two top 20 classes in two years because we might somehow start magically recruiting well after a likely 3-9 season. That makes sense.**

'15 was a good recruiting class

[blacklistedbully]

Would you fire mark dantonio? The last 3 years, dantonio won the rose, cotton, and was in the playoffs last season. How did he capitalize?

1. Barely beat furman

2. Barely beat a bad ND team

3. Got blew out by byu and Wisconsin at home

4. Lost to Indiana, northwestern, and Maryland.

Currently 2-5

Haven't heard of MD whoring himself out to other schools every year, ruining his recruiting. And he's been consistently more successful than Dan.

MD has had Michigan State ranked in the final polls 6 out of 9 years. Dan has had us 2 out of 7.
MD has had the other MSU ranked 4 times in the final Top 10, and 4 of the past 5 years. Dan has not finished in the Top 10 once.
MD has made the playoffs. DM has not.
MD has finished with 11 or more wins 6 of the past 7 seasons. DM has never finished with 11 or more.

Care to compare how many teams MD has beaten that ended highly ranked vs what DM has done?

Are you kidding me? MD has earned more lattitude than DM.

[M.Fillmore]

Could Brad Peterson coach the OL?

Why the love for a guy who has never coached college ball?

[msstate7]

Haven't heard of MD whoring himself out to other schools every year, ruining his recruiting. And he's been consistently more successful than Dan.

MD has had Michigan State ranked in the final polls 6 out of 9 years. Dan has had us 2 out of 7.
MD has had the other MSU ranked 4 times in the final Top 10, and 4 of the past 5 years. Dan has not finished in the Top 10 once.
MD has made the playoffs. DM has not.

Care to compare how many teams MD has beaten that ended highly ranked vs what DM has done?

Are you kidding me? MD has earned more lattitude than DM.

Dantonio has been better, but he's been better at a better job in an easier conference. If you look at recruiting, they're pretty much the same.

[msstate7]

Why the love for a guy who has never coached college ball?

Gus malzahn joined Arkansas' staff as an OC from the HS ranks.

Chad Morris joined tulsa's staff as an OC from the HS ranks.

I think Peterson could be a star like the above guys too, but I don't wanna start him at OC

[ShotgunDawg]

Why the love for a guy who has never coached college ball?

Because he has a chance to replace what Hughes gave us in recruiting. A respected MS guy that can walk into any coaches office or home in the state.

Also, his success as a high school coach would insinuate that he at least has competent skills in communication and motivation.

[blacklistedbully]

Dantonio has been better, but he's been better at a better job in an easier conference. If you look at recruiting, they're pretty much the same.

Also, Indiana is unusually decent this year, as are Maryland and NW.

[Todd4State]

'15 was a good recruiting class

One of the top 20 classes I referred to.

[msstate7]

Also, Indiana is unusually decent this year, as are Maryland and NW.

We have a common opponent in byu. Byu beat them by 3 td's at Michigan state.

I don't even know what I'm arguing about anymore haha

I wouldn't fire either, but I do hope dan makes some staff changes. I hope we tell dan we'll give him more assistant pay money for NEW assistants

[DownwardDawg]

If he coaches with fire like he did his first 3 years here and gets Hevesy out of here I'm all in with Dan and this plan

Never gonna happen.

[DownwardDawg]

We have a common opponent in byu. Byu beat them by 3 td's at Michigan state.

I don't even know what I'm arguing about anymore haha

I wouldn't fire either, but I do hope dan makes some staff changes. I hope we tell dan we'll give him more assistant pay money for NEW assistants

Lol. These threads will do that to you!

[Really Clark?]

Also, Indiana is unusually decent this year, as are Maryland and NW.

Wasn't that kind of one of MSState 7's points? His record is also a product of playing some really weak opponents in his division. His record against SEC teams is losing as well.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Don't think he could walk into Clintons coaches office..

[ShotgunDawg]

Don't think he could walk into Clintons coaches office..

http://i.imgur.com/JJZDZNo.gif

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Ha! That's right!

[blacklistedbully]

Wasn't that kind of one of MSState 7's points? His record is also a product of playing some really weak opponents in his division. His record against SEC teams is losing as well.

Nope. And the larger point was...no matter how the schedules match up, Dantonio has accomplished so much more than Dan, and does not appear to come with the baggage Dan does, (Hevesy, reluctance to play better players over upperclassmen, penchant for deflecting blame and throwing people under-the-bus, occasional mind-numbing bad play calls and bad clock management, flirting with every HC skirt that passes by, etc).

MD actually has earned a lot more leeway. And he has beaten many more teams ranked in the final poll than Dan has at MSU. That trumps the difference in conference schedule.

[JohnnyQuid]

Ok so let's keep the coach who hasn't been recruiting well for years and got us on the position we're in and has only landed I think two top 20 classes in two years because we might somehow start magically recruiting well after a likely 3-9 season. That makes sense.**

hasn't recruited according to media that 2 yrs ago we all mocked for being uninformed about a lot of our core guys.

but now their opinion is unquestionably right? I'm not saying we haven't ****edup recruiting some but we've held our own.

who do you think gave you the ability to be so indignant about our current situation? you talked about Croom leaving and not hurting recruiting.

how many years have we had good QB play and fun offenses before mullen? it's a coincidence guys lIke thompson wanna play for dan? so don't give me that shot about we'll get what we lose back.

if yall Rick ray up this shit for our football program .. no words. thankfully powers that be don't seem to align

[JohnnyQuid]

Nope. And the larger point was...no matter how the schedules match up, Dantonio has accomplished so much more than Dan, and does not appear to come with the baggage Dan does, (Hevesy, reluctance to play better players over upperclassmen, penchant for deflecting blame and throwing people under-the-bus, occasional mind-numbing bad play calls and bad clock management, flirting with every HC skirt that passes by, etc).

MD actually has earned a lot more leeway. And he has beaten many more teams ranked in the final poll than Dan has at MSU. That trumps the difference in conference schedule.

I like dantonio but big 10 is top heavy and u coast for weeks till a big game. they would bottom feed in the SEC

[msbulldog]

Am I the only one wondering how a post about the bears losing another recruit turned into a fire Mullen/keep Mullen thread? Thinking about starting a thread on convenience store fried chicken and setting the over/under at 10 on the number of posts before it becomes about Mullen.

That's funny Vegas, but sad because it's the truth.

[msbulldog]

Nafoom is imploding on this news.

[Really Clark?]

Nope. And the larger point was...no matter how the schedules match up, Dantonio has accomplished so much more than Dan, and does not appear to come with the baggage Dan does, (Hevesy, reluctance to play better players over upperclassmen, penchant for deflecting blame and throwing people under-the-bus, occasional mind-numbing bad play calls and bad clock management, flirting with every HC skirt that passes by, etc).

MD actually has earned a lot more leeway. And he has beaten many more teams ranked in the final poll than Dan has at MSU. That trumps the difference in conference schedule.

Yes it was. Don't be obtuse about trying to be right. 7 was correct with that post and it didn't go to anything besides wins. But to that he most definitely runs an upperclassman redshirt type of program and none of us are close enough to have any sense of what their fans perceive are his short comings. You are making statements without context of being intimately familiar with them. He doesn't recruit any better than Mullen and in fact worse. Michigan State doesn't have the wins, rankings, etc if he is playing our schedule. His record against the SEC is not good. I still think he is a great coach and better than Mullen. But the gap in perception is tainted by his record. They are much closer than you will ever admit to.

[thf24]

Only one thread with two replies about this on Nafoom, and doesn't even mention the recruit by name. Looks like most heads are forcibly buried in the sand at this point.

[Dawgtini]

I like dantonio but big 10 is top heavy and u coast for weeks till a big game. they would bottom feed in the SEC
+1 And unless you are a Mich State fan you prob don't know how many times MD's name is associated with a coaching search.

[mic]

And it's another DL...
As bad as Umiss defense is this year, just wait..
I don't know how many Sr's they have up front (Gross, DJ jones, and Haynes will prob declare) but this group will be paper thin next year.. and no help as of now is on the way...

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Don't think he could walk into Clintons coaches office..

Apparently we don't have anyone on staff that can...

[notsofarawaydawg]

Shit .. this board is becoming another Sex Pack these days. When are you people going to stop arguing with all these closet Bears?

[M.Fillmore]

Sammons just tweeted they are down to 10 commitments.

I guess he wasn't laid off.

[smootness]

Nope. And the larger point was...no matter how the schedules match up, Dantonio has accomplished so much more than Dan, and does not appear to come with the baggage Dan does, (Hevesy, reluctance to play better players over upperclassmen, penchant for deflecting blame and throwing people under-the-bus, occasional mind-numbing bad play calls and bad clock management, flirting with every HC skirt that passes by, etc).

MD actually has earned a lot more leeway. And he has beaten many more teams ranked in the final poll than Dan has at MSU. That trumps the difference in conference schedule.

I guarantee you no one outside of State fans ever mentions any of that stuff. If Dantonio was our coach, I have no doubt we would find similar things about him to throw in that list.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Sammons just tweeted they are down to 10 commitments.

I guess he wasn't laid off.

And they have zero 2018 commitments. It seems like they may be prepping for a big scholly hit.

[BB30]

Nope. And the larger point was...no matter how the schedules match up, Dantonio has accomplished so much more than Dan, and does not appear to come with the baggage Dan does, (Hevesy, reluctance to play better players over upperclassmen, penchant for deflecting blame and throwing people under-the-bus, occasional mind-numbing bad play calls and bad clock management, flirting with every HC skirt that passes by, etc).

MD actually has earned a lot more leeway. And he has beaten many more teams ranked in the final poll than Dan has at MSU. That trumps the difference in conference schedule.

Thats just asinine, Dantonio has coached in a conference that up until very very recently(this year) has had one legit team in it. You can say all you want about this win or that but the only team in that conference that has been legitimate over the last 7-8 years is OSU. Even some of his MSU teams were not very good he just benefited from a terrible conference. You give Dan hell for getting beat by Bama but don't mention the fact that Dantonio got drummed 38-0. If you ask me there is not a lot of difference in his teams the last two years and ours the last two years.

[ShotgunDawg]

Sammons just tweeted they are down to 10 commitments.

I guess he wasn't laid off.

Yeah, this is going to be a huge problem.

With their inability to flip recruits now, I'm not sure how they will fill out the other 15 spots with anything but 2 star types

[HSVDawg]

Disagree, I think most people on this board DO get it. It's just that it's much more complicated than some want to admit. I'm to the point where I ignore the people that are strongly on one side or the other. It's the people in the middle that have completely thought it through, that have the best points.

I've found this to be the case with just about any topic in life. Sports, politics, whatever.

[RougeDawg]

We currently have a top 20 class. Need to close with Gay, Avery, Guidry, Abram & a couple solid OL. We could be knocking on the door of the Top 15. We need Mullen to stay & replace 2/3 offensive staff members & go from there.

These staff changes were strongly suggested to Dan after SS was relieved of his football duties on the off season. We see what changes Dan made. He decided to change his attitude to an even shittier one, pout, and show up in shorts to the opener. Does everyone just choose to ignore what happened this off season? Keenum told Dan no raise and no extension until changes were made. Staff and attitude changes were at the top of the list. Neither of which has been addressed and one has gotten worse. This is not emotion or hate.

Would you keep your 401k or IRA with a broker who kept doing the same thing with your money when you made some suggestions on how you wanted your money invested because it had a better chance for growth and opportunity? You might not be the expert a broker is, but you are intelligent enough to notice things and areas to avoid and things that can increase returns. Then when you finally draw a line and provide an ultimatum, your broker takes your money and invests in shit? Essentially that is what Dan has done and is doing with all of our investment, that is Mississippi State Football.

[Really Clark?]

These staff changes were strongly suggested to Dan after SS was relieved of his football duties on the off season. We see what changes Dan made. He decided to change his attitude to an even shittier one, pout, and show up in shorts to the opener. Does everyone just choose to ignore what happened this off season? Keenum told Dan no raise and no extension until changes were made. Staff and attitude changes were at the top of the list. Neither of which has been addressed and one has gotten worse. This is not emotion or hate.

Would you keep your 401k or IRA with a broker who kept doing the same thing with your money when you made some suggestions on how you wanted your money invested because it had a better chance for growth and opportunity? You might not be the expert a broker is, but you are intelligent enough to notice things and areas to avoid and things that can increase returns. Then when you finally draw a line and provide an ultimatum, your broker takes your money and invests in shit? Essentially that is what Dan has done and is doing with all of our investment, that is Mississippi State Football.

Do you not know or deliberately leave information out on purpose? Like that Stricklin and Keenum both agreed with Dan that it would not be a good move to make changes on the offensive side on top of replacing the entire defensive side of the ball. If we hadn't loss everyone on that side changes were going to be made last year but a total overhaul on both sides was thought to be a bigger negative impact to the program. I think we could have made the one move that needs to made more than any other and it was the plan. He was even given less during recruiting season to transition. But Keenum signed off on not doing it after Turner also left.

[Tbonewannabe]

I will say this. It is possible Dan, thinking he was gone, lost his edge and let things slip, only to find he was going to be here this year after all. Perhaps he didn't expect the team to falter as much as it did due to his actions, so now he's stuck with reaping what he sowed, and is realizing what a hot mess it is.

Perhaps...if we had a decent O-line and we let our DC get aggressive and do his own thing, we'd be 6-1, even with Dan's other "issues". If Dan is seeing the light and decides to get rid of Hevsey, pay a good O-line coach to come over, and lets our DC get after it...I'd be inclined to want him to stay. But he'd also have to publicly disavow himself of any and all HC opportunities that come up in the future.

If he wants to consider other opportunities, it had better be kept a closely-guarded secret that he publicly denies if it gets out. Tell Keenum and our AD...but deny it to the public. Only way we can sustain good recruiting.

If Dan could do all that, we could become QB-U in the SEC...and win a lot of games despite his other "issues".

This is what I want to happen but Dan has to shit or get off the pot.

[Jack Lambert]

These staff changes were strongly suggested to Dan after SS was relieved of his football duties on the off season. We see what changes Dan made. He decided to change his attitude to an even shittier one, pout, and show up in shorts to the opener. Does everyone just choose to ignore what happened this off season? Keenum told Dan no raise and no extension until changes were made. Staff and attitude changes were at the top of the list. Neither of which has been addressed and one has gotten worse. This is not emotion or hate.

Would you keep your 401k or IRA with a broker who kept doing the same thing with your money when you made some suggestions on how you wanted your money invested because it had a better chance for growth and opportunity? You might not be the expert a broker is, but you are intelligent enough to notice things and areas to avoid and things that can increase returns. Then when you finally draw a line and provide an ultimatum, your broker takes your money and invests in shit? Essentially that is what Dan has done and is doing with all of our investment, that is Mississippi State Football.

You need to put at lest 18% of your salary into your 401k to have enough to retire. How many of you are doing it? Better yet how many of you can?

[Turfdawg67]

Only one thread with two replies about this on Nafoom, and doesn't even mention the recruit by name. Looks like most heads are forcibly buried in the sand at this point.

There's not a lot of WG threads, but every thread is filled with "woe is me" and "we suck again" and "how did this happen so fast" and "we are already on probation". They are imploding and it's glorious. NCAA made the funds dry up and now y'all suck again in recruiting... even with all those beautiful trees in the grove.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

http://s11.postimg.org/y3zwh8e1v/PIPER.jpg

[Dawgbite]

You need to put at lest 18% of your salary into your 401k to have enough to retire. How many of you are doing it? Better yet how many of you can?

Didn't for the first 15 years of working even though I knew I should. Got serious at saving about 35 and at 51 I am probably saving 50%-60% toward retirement. I haven't had a mortgage in 15 years and haven't had a car payment in 5. I plan to let yall have this rat race in about 4 years. I know I am in the extreme minority but it feels pretty good.

[starkvegasdawg]

Didn't for the first 15 years of working even though I knew I should. Got serious at saving about 35 and at 51 I am probably saving 50%-60% toward retirement. I haven't had a mortgage in 15 years and haven't had a car payment in 5. I plan to let yall have this rat race in about 4 years. I know I am in the extreme minority but it feels pretty good.

http://cdn4.teehunter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/mdmf.gif

[lamont]

Do you not know or deliberately leave information out on purpose? Like that Stricklin and Keenum both agreed with Dan that it would not be a good move to make changes on the offensive side on top of replacing the entire defensive side of the ball. If we hadn't loss everyone on that side changes were going to be made last year but a total overhaul on both sides was thought to be a bigger negative impact to the program. I think we could have made the one move that needs to made more than any other and it was the plan. He was even given less during recruiting season to transition. But Keenum signed off on not doing it after Turner also left.

That's a load of crap or very stupid. We change on the defensive side every season. If we go by that philosophy- we will never make changes on offense

[Dawgbite]

http://cdn4.teehunter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/mdmf.gif

Just spit tea all over the screen!

[Dawg61]

Shit .. this board is becoming another Sex Pack these days. When are you people going to stop arguing with all these closet Bears?

Don't stop there name the names of the closet Bears please. I have my suspicions of atleast one in here too.

[smootness]

That's a load of crap or very stupid. We change on the defensive side every season. If we go by that philosophy- we will never make changes on offense

We don't lose everyone on the defensive staff every offseason. That's what happened last year.

[Really Clark?]

That's a load of crap or very stupid. We change on the defensive side every season. If we go by that philosophy- we will never make changes on offense

What are you talking about? We don't change the entire defensive staff every year. And that is exactly what they agreed upon. Keenum, Stricklin and Mullen agreed to that. Take it up with them. Don't take my word for it, there were many saying that the offensive staff, especially one particular coach was going to be replaced after signing day. 2 at least. Then Turner leaves and there was concern that it would impact us even more if we made a big change on the offensive side. And I know you know that there was plans in the works. Don't act stupid now. Of course if people wouldn't try to influence things that actually would hurt us when that happen then maybe we would not have to worry about it. I still think we could have made the 1 coaching change on offense and it wouldn't hurt us.

[MedDawg]

You mean a broker who has given you your best 7-year return ever including record returns the past two years? Not to mention a rival broker is going to jail for embezzlement, which in the recent past made it more difficult to achieve those returns.

[maroonmania]

What are you talking about? We don't change the entire defensive staff every year. And that is exactly what they agreed upon. Keenum, Stricklin and Mullen agreed to that. Take it up with them. Don't take my word for it, there were many saying that the offensive staff, especially one particular coach was going to be replaced after signing day. 2 at least. Then Turner leaves and there was concern that it would impact us even more if we made a big change on the offensive side. And I know you know that there was plans in the works. Don't act stupid now. Of course if people wouldn't try to influence things that actually would hurt us when that happen then maybe we would not have to worry about it. I still think we could have made the 1 coaching change on offense and it wouldn't hurt us.

Canning Hevesy would be a great move irregardless of ANYTHING happening on the defensive side of the ball. I mean you certainly don't hurt anything coaching wise by letting him go and ANY replacement would be an improvement on the recruiting front.

[Turfdawg67]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dawg-gone-dawgs

[Really Clark?]

Canning Hevesy would be a great move irregardless of ANYTHING happening on the defensive side of the ball. I mean you certainly don't hurt anything coaching wise by letting him go and ANY replacement would be an improvement on the recruiting front.

I don't disagree with that. At the time it was suppose to also be at least 2 offensive guys was my understanding. The concern was of course how it would be used against us in recruiting (didn't no one know that Tunsil was going to extend UNM troubles) but more importantly that wholesale changes on both sides could be a red flag inside the staff and the outside perception. I think the benefit of just changing to replacing that 1 offensive guy would have out weighed any negatives, if we make a great hire.

[thf24]

Hevesy knowing he was about to get fired last year and that he's going to get fired after this year would explain why his previously decent coaching has joined his recruiting in being absolute shit.

[Spiderman]

Could Brad Peterson coach the OL?

Two part answer... yes he could..........coach it well?... NO

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Two part answer... yes he could..........coach it well?... NO

I wouldn't want him coaching my OL but TE coach you bet.

[ShotgunDawg]

OL coach is a funny hire. You've got to have a coach 1st, evaluator 2nd, & recruiter 3rd.

I could marginally handle Hev when he was coaching well, but he's been terrible as an evaluator & recruiter. Thus why he hasn't signed one player that was drafted.

With a good OL coach, due to the mentality it takes to coach a good OL, he's not likely to be a good recruiter. But that doesn't mean he can't evaluate his ass off.

What I think we should do is hire a new OL coach & then overpay an NFL scout to become part of our recruiting department & just have him evaluate on film & at camps. That way we take a little of the emotion that a coach has for a player & replaces it with someone who is more objective in their evaluations.

Whoever is the best NFL area scout in the Southeast is, he's probably making 70k-100K. I'd call him tomorrow & offer him 250K to come on board. Alabama has an ex-NFL GM as their color analyst. Don't think he occasionally isn't "taking a look"

Coaches can be bad evaluators sometimes because they end up caring more about the "makeup & coachability" of a kid rather than the actual tools he has to play the game. That's where scouts excel because they don't have to coach the kid. Therefore, they are generally more objective & favor kids with tools & ability.

[Todd4State]

hasn't recruited according to media that 2 yrs ago we all mocked for being uninformed about a lot of our core guys.

but now their opinion is unquestionably right? I'm not saying we haven't ****edup recruiting some but we've held our own.

who do you think gave you the ability to be so indignant about our current situation? you talked about Croom leaving and not hurting recruiting.

how many years have we had good QB play and fun offenses before mullen? it's a coincidence guys lIke thompson wanna play for dan? so don't give me that shot about we'll get what we lose back.

if yall Rick ray up this shit for our football program .. no words. thankfully powers that be don't seem to align

No one is saying that recruiting gurus are always correct but when talking about where classes rank it does give you a rough idea. Nowhere did I say that Croom leaving didn't hurt recruiting. I'm saying it wasn't the end of the world when he left and our class didn't fall apart. I'm just saying it's extremely shortsighted to keep a staff around just to keep a recruit. Ask Ole Miss if going 2-10 was worth getting Singleton and Brassell.

I'm saying the reality is any coach we bring in is likely going to bring in a few good recruits of his own so odds are it usually balances out in the end. We also don't know how Thompson would react to a new hire. It just depends. What I'm saying is if the logic is "we gotta keep Dan this year to keep Thompson" and we go 2-10 next year and then the logic is going to be "we gotta keep Dan to keep Malik Heath" and then next year it will be someone else and on and on.

And hey- no one gave me any rights to be indignant but I am going to give my opinion since it's a message board.

[Spiderman]

I wouldn't want him coaching my OL but TE coach you bet.

He would be an upgrade over Sallach. .. of course I would be too.

In all actuality, I want coaches at OL, OC(as long as he is the QB coach too, if not, QB Coach has to be a ball coach),& DC. The rest should just be recruiters.

I could give a damn if those can recruit or not, but they damn sure better be able to coach.

[Really Clark?]

He would be an upgrade over Sallach. .. of course I would be too.

In all actuality, I want coaches at OL, OC(as long as he is the QB coach too, if not, QB Coach has to be a ball coach),& DC. The rest should just be recruiters.

I could give a damn if those can recruit or not, but they damn sure better be able to coach.

Agree 100%. I can also go with a very smart safety or LB coach who is a little weak on recruiting but looks to have the makings of a DC.

[msbulldog]

OL coach is a funny hire. You've got to have a coach 1st, evaluator 2nd, & recruiter 3rd.

I could marginally handle Hev when he was coaching well, but he's been terrible as an evaluator & recruiter. Thus why he hasn't signed one player that was drafted.

With a good OL coach, due to the mentality it takes to coach a good OL, he's not likely to be a good recruiter. But that doesn't mean he can't evaluate his ass off.

What I think we should do is hire a new OL coach & then overpay an NFL scout to become part of our recruiting department & just have him evaluate on film & at camps. That way we take a little of the emotion that a coach has for a player & replaces it with someone who is more objective in their evaluations.

Whoever is the best NFL area scout in the Southeast is, he's probably making 70k-100K. I'd call him tomorrow & offer him 250K to come on board. Alabama has an ex-NFL GM as their color analyst. Don't think he occasionally isn't "taking a look"

Coaches can be bad evaluators sometimes because they end up caring more about the "makeup & coachability" of a kid rather than the actual tools he has to play the game. That's where scouts excel because they don't have to coach the kid. Therefore, they are generally more objective & favor kids with tools & ability.

Damn good idea Gun! +1

[Todd4State]

Agree 100%. I can also go with a very smart safety or LB coach who is a little weak on recruiting but looks to have the makings of a DC.

If you can't recruit, you better be an elite play caller.

[Really Clark?]

If you can't recruit, you better be an elite play caller.

Well I was also agreeing about the OL position coach as well. Could care less if they can recruit but want a coach at that position. I can also go with a sharp safety or LB coach but really OL coach is the least important with recruiting. Now if he can do both, great. Not turning that away.

[maroonmania]

I don't disagree with that. At the time it was suppose to also be at least 2 offensive guys was my understanding. The concern was of course how it would be used against us in recruiting (didn't no one know that Tunsil was going to extend UNM troubles) but more importantly that wholesale changes on both sides could be a red flag inside the staff and the outside perception. I think the benefit of just changing to replacing that 1 offensive guy would have out weighed any negatives, if we make a great hire.

Ironically had we gone ahead and made the move on Hevesy we would have likely greatly increased our chances of signing Scott Lashley.