Part of the Solution or Part of the Problem?

[Bucky Dog]

This is similar to ISID post but with a slightly different angle.

We are, or can be our own worst enemies. I am so tired of looking at this great website and seeing every other thread about Mullen. From firing him, to who is replacing him, why I don't like him, Hevesy sucks, Dan is a stubborn ass! I get the picture. I get the sensitivity and everyone's desire to win and set a new standard. I also know people are bothered he has looked at other jobs the past few years and recruiting hasn't been what we needed. But, I am a parent and a father and a manager in my profession and I see very often in my professional work where I have people that work for me have successful years in sales and test the waters, just as Dan did, to see their value and what else is out there. And admittedly, it can be people who have been here awhile and just felt they needed a change. As a manager I embraced that and told them they had to do what is best for them and their family, and sometimes they moved on, and many times they stayed here. Like Dan I have had a few that became complacent and the next year their sales tanked and we had to have a talk and the reset themselves and recommitted. And most often, they returned to their success.

My point is Dan has done a hell of a lot for us. Dan has made mistakes and rubbed people the wrong way and needs to regain that fire. But to be honest everyone needs to just shut up and accept the fact that he DOES deserve a do over this year. Dan has hired two of the top 10 recruiters in the nation in Sirmon and TBuck and we need to give them a full year and let this class shape up. He has hired two prominent MS high school coaches to shore up relations on that level in state. Too many people compare what we are doing to OM and I can't even start to talk about how we all know now that OM has cheated their way to success and bought many players that wanted to come to State. I can think of at least 6-8 OM players that wanted to be at State that could be helping us right now.

To that, OM is very close to self destructing and being blown up by the NCAA for all of this. WE have a huge opportunity to capitalize on this and WE MUST stay together right now. We need the recruits to believe in State for the right reasons and not give them any reason to look elsewhere. They won't go to OM now when Freeze and the rest are gone and the sanctions pile up, but they read these boards and others use it against us with them. WE must get the top talent in the state and grab some developmental players elsewhere to be successful.

Each of us needs to go ahead and treat this season as a lost cause by expecting us to go 3-8 or 4-9, and anything better is great. Yes we need to see improvement in areas, play some younger guys to get experience and such, but let it play out. Let the season play out, the recruiting season play out, and the shit storm at OM play out. YOU have a choice to be part of the solution, or part of the problems right now with MSU. Get behind the coaches and Keenum and whoever the new AD is right now and take advantage of our opportunity. Our basketball team is going to be really good, as is baseball, so WE HAVE A LOT TO BE PROUD OF!!!! Dan will figure it out and if he does leave on his own or whatever, then so be it, but quit trying to be so right about everything and creating so much negativity and the "I told you so" mentality in our program.

Think of the positive things and give people a chance, and a second chance they deserve, and trust our leaders. Be a part of the solution, NOT a part of the problem!

[BrunswickDawg]

Good points. This whole situation is so similar to baseball post-2013. Cohen went through 2014 trying to mask deficiencies through bunting and line up change galore. We still had just enough talent in place to do well except against elite teams - who smoked us - but we still looked on paper like a solid team. 2015 saw the bottom fall out as the last of the leaders from 2013 graduated or were drafted. Talent was down, the ball change caught us flat footed, we hadn't taken full advantage of the recruiting bump from the CWS, and by SEC play fans were ready to kill Cohen. But, the Intense Bastard wasn't going to go out like that. He nailed recruiting and JUCO signees, revamped the lineup, and put together a team that powered its way to an SEC title.

Giving Mullen that same chance might pay the same type dividend.

[MaxedOutMaroon]

Not bad points you make. I like the enthusiasm and the hopeful future. I am still in the fence with Dan personally; however, 35-0 at halftime versus auburn at home is just plain mediocre

[was21]

At last some sanity

[Tbonewannabe]

We came out completely unprepared in every facet of the game against AU after having a bye week to prepare for them and it was at home. I think that is the biggest knock on Mullen right now. Also the only coach to take any responsibility is Sirmon which is a red flag to most people. Mullen can get the fan base back but we need to look like hell on wheels the rest of the year. I don't care if we finish 3-9 if every team is happy to get by us with a win.

Mullen needs to walk the walk and show Relentless Effort isn't just a catch phrase, that includes recruiting.

[maroonmania]

I like your points. Only thing I would say is that Mullen's biggest issue is that if you look around as a college head football coach you BETTER keep a freakin' tight lid on it if you don't get other jobs because of the effect it has on your fanbase, recruiting and your other coaches. No way can you compare that to a REGULAR job, you just can't. We lost EVERY defensive coach we had last year and, per rumor, it was mostly due to the fact that NONE of them thought Mullen would still be here this year. Yes, I don't have an issue with Mullen being given a chance to fix the program but he dug himself quite a hole with some ineffective recruiting over the past several years (which can't be fixed quickly) and allowing dead weight offensive staff members to still be onboard with apparently no accountability. So while he does likely deserve the chance, the odds looked very stacked against him to fix things very quickly because it will take a couple of years to bring in more talented guys and get them some experience and the country club assistants obviously are not going anywhere.

[Tbonewannabe]

Also due to Mullen's track record, no one expects any help from incoming players including Jucos. After 2009 -2010 group of players we haven't had an immediate impact player other than Bear. We have consistently redshirted even Jucos so before I expect players to come in and help next year then Mullen is going to have to change his MO and this is the same guy that keeps running Holloway up the middle because he is sure it will eventually work.

[BrunswickDawg]

We came out completely unprepared in every facet of the game against AU after having a bye week to prepare for them and it was at home. I think that is the biggest knock on Mullen right now. Also the only coach to take any responsibility is Sirmon which is a red flag to most people. Mullen can get the fan base back but we need to look like hell on wheels the rest of the year. I don't care if we finish 3-9 if every team is happy to get by us with a win.

Mullen needs to walk the walk and show Relentless Effort isn't just a catch phrase, that includes recruiting.

I get that. But, players gotta play. Mullen can't control things like Rankin not getting out of his 3 pt. stance to block, or receivers dropping passes, kickers missing FG. The team itself looks so much like baseball in 2015 - totally lost, blowing basic plays and fundamentals, no balls, and no leadership. All the coaching in the world ain't going to change that. Cohen rode out 2015 by bunting. Mullen is riding out 2016 with Holloway up the middle. Cohen blew up a team that didn't work and started over. Just the JUCO recruiting alone tells me Mullen is thinking the same thing.

[Maroonthirteen]

Well said Bucky.

I am as frustrated as the next guy. I don't get the RB situation. Or DB situation. But I am not at practice everyday.

I am frustrated with recruiting. But I don't know all the "noise" and influences out there that create huge obstacles for us.

However, I believe that Dan wants to succeed as much as anyone. He has too many LOGICAL reasons to give his best effort to succeed.

Even if he does want to move on and has interviewed elsewhere, I understand. He has given us 8 years. That is 3-4 more years than most predicted. Also, Jackie looked at the NFL in the mid90s and Alabama around 2000. I don't get why everyone has such contempt for Dan doing the same.

Bottom line, if every thing was on a level recruiting and playing field, we probably beat OM in 14 and maybe 15. IF the kicker (not a personal shot at him...just a point) makes the chip shot vs USA, I think people have more patience with Dan this season. IF the QB and WR execute a little better on the opening possession vs AU....maybe that game is closer. Point of all this is.......as Jackie said.......you are never as good or bad as people say you are.

Stay positive and let it play out. Hopefully, we land all these studs in this recruiting class. If Dan goes or stays, MSU will be alright. He has built our program up to the point that he or the next guy will have plenty to work with next year. As for the rest of this season, I will enjoy the game Friday night, next week vs UK and then Samford.

[dawgday166]

I get that. But, players gotta play. Mullen can't control things like Rankin not getting out of his 3 pt. stance to block, or receivers dropping passes, kickers missing FG. The team itself looks so much like baseball in 2015 - totally lost, blowing basic plays and fundamentals, no balls, and no leadership. All the coaching in the world ain't going to change that. Cohen rode out 2015 by bunting. Mullen is riding out 2016 with Holloway up the middle. Cohen blew up a team that didn't work and started over. Just the JUCO recruiting alone tells me Mullen is thinking the same thing.

Yes he can and he has direct influence/impact on it. Go ask Bear, Saban, Coach K, etc. I guarantee you Bear Bryant would fix this shit. Not saying Bear could take this team and beat Saban's Bama team, but we wouldn't show up, roll over and play dead either.

How come is it that Coach K can take someone off the street and make them an 80+% free throw shooter and Stans had excellent 3 point shooters who barely could shoot 75%. There is a reason for this.

I've come to the conclusion that we just gotta keep in mind the following: Every good thing that has happened with MSU football in our entire history is COMPLETELY due to Dan. Every bad thing is the result of his assistants not doing their jobs or the players not playing well. If we keep those things in mind it's all good ****

[WSOPdawg]

Yes he can and he has direct influence/impact on it. Go ask Bear, Saban, Coach K, etc. I guarantee you Bear Bryant would fix this shit. Not saying Bear could take this team and beat Saban's Bama team, but we wouldn't show up, roll over and play dead either.

How come is it that Coach K can take someone off the street and make them an 80+% free throw shooter and Stans had excellent 3 point shooters who barely could shoot 75%. There is a reason for this.

I've come to the conclusion that we just gotta keep in mind the following: Every good thing that has happened with MSU football in our entire history is COMPLETELY due to Dan. Every bad thing is the result of his assistants not doing their jobs or the players not playing well. If we keep those things in mind it's all good ****

The story goes that Bear Bryant could beat you with his players, or give you his players and take yours and beat you with your players.

[JoseBrown]

This is the only Mullen post on the front page right now...just sayin..

[BrunswickDawg]

I like your points. Only thing I would say is that Mullen's biggest issue is that if you look around as a college head football coach you BETTER keep a freakin' tight lid on it if you don't get other jobs because of the effect it has on your fanbase, recruiting and your other coaches. No way can you compare that to a REGULAR job, you just can't. We lost EVERY defensive coach we had last year and, per rumor, it was mostly due to the fact that NONE of them thought Mullen would still be here this year. Yes, I don't have an issue with Mullen being given a chance to fix the program but he dug himself quite a hole with some ineffective recruiting over the past several years (which can't be fixed quickly) and allowing dead weight offensive staff members to still be onboard with apparently no accountability. So while he does likely deserve the chance, the odds looked very stacked against him to fix things very quickly because it will take a couple of years to bring in more talented guys and get them some experience and the country club assistants obviously are not going anywhere.

Something to consider - regardless of the Miami situation. What if once Dan figured out he wasn't moving on last year, he was ready to make changes on the O Staff but with the entire D staff bailing he felt like he could not turn over virtually the entire staff? So what he did instead was bring in the off field help as an interim step to moving Sallach, Hev, and Knox out (I would think that Gonzo and Johnson stay). Gives us a year in offensive purgatory, but allows for more of a clean break in 2017 with a new O staff and some of the dead weight upperclassmen moving on

[dawgday166]

The story goes that Bear Bryant could beat you with his players, or give you his players and take yours and beat you with your players.

Bum Phillips made that quote. Bum said he had met several coaches that knew more about X's and O's than Bear, but he never met anyone who knew more about people. This team's main problem is motivational and maybe discipline too. That's why the "execution" as Dan likes to say it's about sucks so bad.

[Bucky Dog]

I like your points. Only thing I would say is that Mullen's biggest issue is that if you look around as a college head football coach you BETTER keep a freakin' tight lid on it if you don't get other jobs because of the effect it has on your fanbase, recruiting and your other coaches. No way can you compare that to a REGULAR job, you just can't. We lost EVERY defensive coach we had last year and, per rumor, it was mostly due to the fact that NONE of them thought Mullen would still be here this year. Yes, I don't have an issue with Mullen being given a chance to fix the program but he dug himself quite a hole with some ineffective recruiting over the past several years (which can't be fixed quickly) and allowing dead weight offensive staff members to still be onboard with apparently no accountability. So while he does likely deserve the chance, the odds looked very stacked against him to fix things very quickly because it will take a couple of years to bring in more talented guys and get them some experience and the country club assistants obviously are not going anywhere.

I think it is next to impossible to keep a tight lid on anything these days, given the social media exposure and the need and desire to have the scoop on everything to generate site hits. See our AD search as well. The chatter with Mullen in the past may be 50% true at best. It WE don't need to do anything to fuel the fire at our own expense.

The REGULAR job comparison is close in the fact that we pay our people well, obviously not at the head coach level, that we expect them to perform year after year and can't allow for complacency, lack of engagement, or effort. But I don't fire them after one bad quarter or year. It costs more, and I am at much greater risk of hiring and training someone who will not perform at the previous reps level,MSU that is why they get another year, with reset expectations and direction.

[Dawgtini]

Good point and post Bucky. I agree.

[Tbonewannabe]

I get that. But, players gotta play. Mullen can't control things like Rankin not getting out of his 3 pt. stance to block, or receivers dropping passes, kickers missing FG. The team itself looks so much like baseball in 2015 - totally lost, blowing basic plays and fundamentals, no balls, and no leadership. All the coaching in the world ain't going to change that. Cohen rode out 2015 by bunting. Mullen is riding out 2016 with Holloway up the middle. Cohen blew up a team that didn't work and started over. Just the JUCO recruiting alone tells me Mullen is thinking the same thing.


The difference was Cohen had a team built specifically for the dead ball. From our pitching to our entire lineup was built to take advantage of it. Cohen has also proven that the best guy usually plays no matter how long they have been in the program. He also changed his offense and pitching outlook. I think Cohen struggled some because he was pressing so much trying to overcome it. Baseball is funny because sometimes trying too hard makes things worse.

Now look at last week for Mullen. He wasn't fired up like he was for South Carolina. The play that best describes the day for me was Pettway running down the sideline and no one tries to dive to push him out of bounds, Bryant even let up at the end. If he didn't step out of bounds then he scored and we had 2 or 3 guys that did not give Relentless Effort. The announcers said Holloway averages 1 yard after contact and we continuously run him up the gut. It doesn't take a genius to figure out if you are running up the gut then you are probably going to get contact.

Cohen also had like 80 different line ups trying to make something happen and I don't see the same type of rolling the dice from Mullen. Mullen doesn't seem to play a person new to the program their first year except at WR. I don't know why but we have even redshirted Jucos. Simmons and Chris Jones have at least gotten into the Dline rotation but you would expect 5 stars to do that or you have no hope of getting 5 star players in the future.

[Tbonewannabe]

Something to consider - regardless of the Miami situation. What if once Dan figured out he wasn't moving on last year, he was ready to make changes on the O Staff but with the entire D staff bailing he felt like he could not turn over virtually the entire staff? So what he did instead was bring in the off field help as an interim step to moving Sallach, Hev, and Knox out (I would think that Gonzo and Johnson stay). Gives us a year in offensive purgatory, but allows for more of a clean break in 2017 with a new O staff and some of the dead weight upperclassmen moving on

I really REALLY hope this is the case but I am not counting on it. He has consistently turned over the defense with no changes to the Offense, just not the entire defense at one time. The one thing I did like was the guys he brought in besides Baker are top of the line recruiters. Baker is a great developer of Dline technique. If anything the O and D line could use people that are great developers. The biggest problem with Hev seems to be he seems to hurt recruiting Oline. I don't care if he isn't that great of a recruiter but you have to at least help.

[BrunswickDawg]

The difference was Cohen had a team built specifically for the dead ball. From our pitching to our entire lineup was built to take advantage of it. Cohen has also proven that the best guy usually plays no matter how long they have been in the program. He also changed his offense and pitching outlook. I think Cohen struggled some because he was pressing so much trying to overcome it. Baseball is funny because sometimes trying too hard makes things worse.

Now look at last week for Mullen. He wasn't fired up like he was for South Carolina. The play that best describes the day for me was Pettway running down the sideline and no one tries to dive to push him out of bounds, Bryant even let up at the end. If he didn't step out of bounds then he scored and we had 2 or 3 guys that did not give Relentless Effort. The announcers said Holloway averages 1 yard after contact and we continuously run him up the gut. It doesn't take a genius to figure out if you are running up the gut then you are probably going to get contact.

Cohen also had like 80 different line ups trying to make something happen and I don't see the same type of rolling the dice from Mullen. Mullen doesn't seem to play a person new to the program their first year except at WR. I don't know why but we have even redshirted Jucos. Simmons and Chris Jones have at least gotten into the Dline rotation but you would expect 5 stars to do that or you have no hope of getting 5 star players in the future.


I really REALLY hope this is the case but I am not counting on it. He has consistently turned over the defense with no changes to the Offense, just not the entire defense at one time. The one thing I did like was the guys he brought in besides Baker are top of the line recruiters. Baker is a great developer of Dline technique. If anything the O and D line could use people that are great developers. The biggest problem with Hev seems to be he seems to hurt recruiting Oline. I don't care if he isn't that great of a recruiter but you have to at least help.

No doubt there are differences as well as similarities. I'm just trying to keep a positive outlook like the OP stated. I WANT to believe that things will work out for the best. Not because I'm full of maroon or all that rah-rah BS, but because I'm trying not let the situation wear me down to where I was during the Croom Error - beyond apathetic. I don't want to be that type fan again.

[Tbonewannabe]

No doubt there are differences as well as similarities. I'm just trying to keep a positive outlook like the OP stated. I WANT to believe that things will work out for the best. Not because I'm full of maroon or all that rah-rah BS, but because I'm trying not let the situation wear me down to where I was during the Croom Error - beyond apathetic. I don't want to be that type fan again.

I hear you. I made the mistake of thinking the run was over in 2013 but Mullen pulled it out down the stretch. That Egg Bowl is one of my best memories at a game. At the end of the year is when we should make a decision. Last week was just a check mark in the wrong column for the end of the year. He has definitely earned the right to be judged on the season and not the first 5 games.

[Liverpooldawg]

This is similar to ISID post but with a slightly different angle.

We are, or can be our own worst enemies. I am so tired of looking at this great website and seeing every other thread about Mullen. From firing him, to who is replacing him, why I don't like him, Hevesy sucks, Dan is a stubborn ass! I get the picture. I get the sensitivity and everyone's desire to win and set a new standard. I also know people are bothered he has looked at other jobs the past few years and recruiting hasn't been what we needed. But, I am a parent and a father and a manager in my profession and I see very often in my professional work where I have people that work for me have successful years in sales and test the waters, just as Dan did, to see their value and what else is out there. And admittedly, it can be people who have been here awhile and just felt they needed a change. As a manager I embraced that and told them they had to do what is best for them and their family, and sometimes they moved on, and many times they stayed here. Like Dan I have had a few that became complacent and the next year their sales tanked and we had to have a talk and the reset themselves and recommitted. And most often, they returned to their success.

My point is Dan has done a hell of a lot for us. Dan has made mistakes and rubbed people the wrong way and needs to regain that fire. But to be honest everyone needs to just shut up and accept the fact that he DOES deserve a do over this year. Dan has hired two of the top 10 recruiters in the nation in Sirmon and TBuck and we need to give them a full year and let this class shape up. He has hired two prominent MS high school coaches to shore up relations on that level in state. Too many people compare what we are doing to OM and I can't even start to talk about how we all know now that OM has cheated their way to success and bought many players that wanted to come to State. I can think of at least 6-8 OM players that wanted to be at State that could be helping us right now.

To that, OM is very close to self destructing and being blown up by the NCAA for all of this. WE have a huge opportunity to capitalize on this and WE MUST stay together right now. We need the recruits to believe in State for the right reasons and not give them any reason to look elsewhere. They won't go to OM now when Freeze and the rest are gone and the sanctions pile up, but they read these boards and others use it against us with them. WE must get the top talent in the state and grab some developmental players elsewhere to be successful.

Each of us needs to go ahead and treat this season as a lost cause by expecting us to go 3-8 or 4-9, and anything better is great. Yes we need to see improvement in areas, play some younger guys to get experience and such, but let it play out. Let the season play out, the recruiting season play out, and the shit storm at OM play out. YOU have a choice to be part of the solution, or part of the problems right now with MSU. Get behind the coaches and Keenum and whoever the new AD is right now and take advantage of our opportunity. Our basketball team is going to be really good, as is baseball, so WE HAVE A LOT TO BE PROUD OF!!!! Dan will figure it out and if he does leave on his own or whatever, then so be it, but quit trying to be so right about everything and creating so much negativity and the "I told you so" mentality in our program.

Think of the positive things and give people a chance, and a second chance they deserve, and trust our leaders. Be a part of the solution, NOT a part of the problem!

Exactly!

[Liverpooldawg]

I'll throw this out there too: Why has "wants to be at MSU " suddenly become the end all be all. I would argue that in my lifetime we have only hade ONE head football coach that really deep down "wanted" to be here. That was Rocky Felker. I'm going to start with Bob Tyler. He was an Ole Miss man that basically was passed over. Emory Bellard wore out his welcome at A&M and I suspect Texas was the job he really always wanted. Felker we know is True Maroon. Jackie had more baggage than a Delta baggage handler. He still tried to get the Bama job after he was here. Croom had been passed over for head coaching jobs and coordinator jobs forever. He jumped at a HC offer when it came but I seriously doubt we were THE place he wanted to be. We just don't know how to take a coach that actually even had opportunities to look around because we have so little experience with it. The only one in any sport that matters that I can really remember is Pat McMohan (sp?) in baseball. It happens, and it happens in every field when people are successful.

[BB30]

The funny thing is there is absolutely nothing any of us can do with the current situation. All we can do is get behind the program and support whoever the hell is leading it. Get behind the players, coaches etc. that is the only way to continue to improve. I assure you those players are more embarrassed about what happened this weekend then we are, a lot of those guys are learning how to grow up and we will see what they are made of in the coming weeks. Unfortunately, again there is nothing we can do regardless of which way this goes. IF this does happen to be Mullen's last year get behind the next guy. All we can do as fans is be there and be supportive of the guys that did decide to come to State and play for us.

[oldtrickdawg]

I like the thoughtfulness of the original piece. There are too many moving parts in this situation for most on the boards to even know the facts..Most of the rants are full of speculation and emotion and short on reality..If the real hard core critics had been on campus with me 50 plus years ago, internet notwithstanding, our fan base would be smaller because of their collective suicides. One of the amusing aspects of all this criticism for Mr. Mullen is the hysteria some project..I said before; We had one winning season in all my years as a srtudent-6-5. The same old ,tired criticisms repeated od infinitum , or whatever the words, aren't helping a thing...Take a breath; chill a little; make ahonest effort to help the cause...

Something my cousin ,who flew 52 bombing missions in Europe in the big war, said to me years ago is appropriate here..."Son, don't be so hard on yourself; there are plenty of people who will do that for you."

[smootness]

The story goes that Bear Bryant could beat you with his players, or give you his players and take yours and beat you with your players.

Yes, that is certainly the story.

He finished 9th in the SEC in Year 7 at Kentucky and 8th in the SEC in Year 12 at Alabama.