Stupid crap our fanbase needs to quit saying......

[Taog Redloh]

1: "We didn't capitalize on 2014"

Not accurate. It's the upperclassmen that suck, the guys from the 2012 and 2013 classes mainly. Lot of attrition, lack of OL, and lack of talent. I don't care the ratings of the class, they just didn't work out. Go back and look at who is here and who isn't, it's very telling. Whether 2014 class and on pans out, remains to be seen, but we do have some good young players.

2: "Keenum should force Mullen's hand on Hevesy"

Stupid. You don't tell a HC how to do his job. If he doesn't get rid of the bad coach and the product suffers, you fire the head guy. That's what guys with BALLS do - see Greg Byrne.

3: "We have top 25 money/are a top 25 job/etc." and all variants

Yeah - no we aren't. Check the total staff pay, then check the rankings inside the SEC - you know, our IMMEDIATE competition.


SUMMATION: I'm not going to defend Mullen or rail on him, not fighting that battle any more. Fans gonna do what fans gonna do. But if you do choose to do one or the other, get the damn facts straight. Is that so hard to do?

[Dawg61]

Stop saying Ole Miss. It's Old Misses or Mississippi. Stop calling those douchebags by the racist term they like so much.

[blacklistedbully]

**** that. I'll tell you what's stupid - thinking our staff did a good job coming out of our unprecedented success in 2014. What's stupid is not acknowledging that coming out of 2014 looking to parlay that success into a better job elsewhere instead of using it to build on that success here HURT OUR PROGRAM IMMENSELY.

[msstate7]

**** that. I'll tell you what's stupid - thinking our staff did a good job coming out of our unprecedented success in 2014. What's stupid is not acknowledging that coming out of 2014 looking to parlay that success into a better job elsewhere instead of using it to build on that success here HURT OUR PROGRAM IMMENSELY.

What recruiting ranking would've satisfied you? Last year we dropped the ball on some kids, but '15 was a top 20 class by all services. '15 was the class immediately following the '14 season

[Gutter Cobreh]

What recruiting ranking would've satisfied you? Last year we dropped the ball on some kids, but '15 was a top 20 class by all services. '15 was the class immediately following the '14 season

Honest question - do you think the coaching staff started looking at stars in recruiting services as opposed to working to identify the right kids for the program?

I only ask this because 2015 was our best class ranking wise. We produced the 2014 squad with a recruiting ranking of 35 (via 247 in 2011).

[MadDawg]

SUMMATION: I'm not going to defend Mullen or rail on him, not fighting that battle any more. Fans gonna do what fans gonna do. But if you do choose to do one or the other, get the damn facts straight. Is that so hard to do?

No, it's not. But our fans suck.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Point on. And recruiting to Starkville is a hard damn job. Starkville is just a crappy college town. If we were smart some alum would invest some money in a area to make it more college friendly environment.

[BrunswickDawg]

Point on. And recruiting to Starkville is a hard damn job. Starkville is just a crappy college town. If we were smart some alum would invest some money in a area to make it more college friendly environment.
Cohen does it. Howland does it. Schafer does it. Jackie did it. Tennis does it. Women's golf does it. Dano? Eh.

[maroonmania]

Point on. And recruiting to Starkville is a hard damn job. Starkville is just a crappy college town. If we were smart some alum would invest some money in a area to make it more college friendly environment.

Yep, such a crappy college town that we just enrolled our largest freshman class ever. Starkville is not for everyone but its NOT a "crappy college town" as you so eloquently put it. The bigger reason for our lack of recruiting success is that Mullen and Hevesy and some others on our staff our CRAPPY recruiters and that has been known for a while. Howland and Cohen are NOT crappy recruiters and they do just fine. But that said I'm all for making things better which there is definite room for improvement.

[blacklistedbully]

What recruiting ranking would've satisfied you? Last year we dropped the ball on some kids, but '15 was a top 20 class by all services. '15 was the class immediately following the '14 season

That class was boosted by total quantity. Look at the average ranking and you'll see at least a dozen more teams below us did better. That with us coming off that historic season.

[I seen it dawg]

The staff doesn't work hard enough or care hard enough. It's that simple.

[Taog Redloh]

That class was boosted by total quantity. Look at the average ranking and you'll see at least a dozen more teams below us did better. That with us coming off that historic season.

So, we recrooted better coming off 2014, but yet you shoot holes in the recrootin services.

Yeah, you're not unbiased at all.

[msstate7]

That class was boosted by total quantity. Look at the average ranking and you'll see at least a dozen more teams below us did better. That with us coming off that historic season.

87.68 avg rating... Oregon at 16 was less at 87.13. Only teams below us that rated higher were Michigan state #22 (87.70) and Michigan #37 (87.81).

Did you actually look or just guess?

[HSVDawg]

To your point number 1 above, it's looking like the 2014 class is going to be every bit as bad as 2012 and 2013. Of course, that class was signed before the 2014 season ever began so it reinforces the same point. When people say that we didn't capitalize on the 2014 run, they mainly mean the 2016 class because that was the first full recruiting cycle after the 2014 season. I don't really call that not capitalizing, I call it flat out lazy recruiting and totally half-ass program management that allowed full turnover of our defensive staff and kept us from even being in the picture for big name recruits in our own backyard. We could have gone 3-9 in 2014, and the 2016 signing class still wouldn't even be remotely acceptable.

[Really Clark?]

Cohen does it. Howland does it. Schafer does it. Jackie did it. Tennis does it. Women's golf does it. Dano? Eh.

I get you but some of those sports and what you are selling are completely 180 degrees from what you are recruiting in football and basketball. Tennis is made up of 75% international players and PGM has always had a natural in for many golfers. In fact, many thought we were missing out NOT having a stronger competition golf program with the PGM curriculum for many years. We use to play with the PGM guys and guys on the team years ago and there were PGM guys routinely beating team members. The state has also really amped up producing some talented young golfers and we have several on the team. Mix in some international players, etc.

[msstate7]

So, we recrooted better coming off 2014, but yet you shoot holes in the recrootin services.

Yeah, you're not unbiased at all.

Avg rating per player for Mullen recruiting classes...

'10 = 83.11
'11 = 83.51
'12 = 85.84
'13 = 85.27
'14 = 84.93
'15 = 87.68
'16 = 87.16

[GTHOM]

The biggest problem our fanbase has is the poor ol MSU attitude and coming up with every reason as to why we cant, why we arent good enough, etc. We have more money, more resources, more talent and the best ability to get talent that we've ever had. If we had a guy who cared running the program...

[JoseBrown]

For me if part of the coaching staff had been held accountable for lazy recruiting. Not stars, ranking, success or lack there of, for doing the job period. Held accountable the head man for spending time doing anything but recruiting when he was shopping for jobs. No one knows how good or bad recruiting would have been had they parlayed 2014 into their jobs. For me it was the clear lack of passion for MState at the end of 2014 to present. How can you ask for quantification when you know that's not relative or even possible to answer based on the argument?

I don't mind people arguing that Dan has been crystal clear with his intentions and been doing his job to the best of his abilities, but just because others differ strongly in their opinions it makes no sense to needle any and every little question you all come up with that are not relative to the argument.

We suck now, not last year. Our head coach strongly appears to be checked out now, not in 2010. There is ample evidence that Hev hasn't been a stellar recruiter or coach now and it's been a ok with head coach for long enough. What happened to selling our program and being passionate for our program by the head coach? What happened to continuing to push themes such as "MState is the place to win championships" or "this is our state"? Clear evidence he's checked out. Instead all we hear about is "Strain", the players are just not straining enough, and we hear "Noise", there's too much noise out there that didn't exist before and the players are hearing it...our D-coordinator changes every year, our plays are the same every game no matter of opponent, we keep doing the same things on the field every game and they keep not working, when a young player makes a good play they go to the sidelines for the remainder....Our defense is the same year after year no matter the Coordinator or the results...

At What Point Do We Change anything?

[msstate7]

We have more money, more resources, more talent and the best ability to get talent that we've ever had.

I agree with that. With that said, which sec west program does your statement not fit?

[GTHOM]

I agree with that. With that said, which sec west program does your statement not fit
That statement just proves my point, the biggest problem our fanbase has is that some of us find every reason as to why we cant, why we arent good enough to compete.

[confucius say]

1: "We didn't capitalize on 2014"

Not accurate. It's the upperclassmen that suck, the guys from the 2012 and 2013 classes mainly. Lot of attrition, lack of OL, and lack of talent. I don't care the ratings of the class, they just didn't work out. Go back and look at who is here and who isn't, it's very telling. Whether 2014 class and on pans out, remains to be seen, but we do have some good young players.

2: "Keenum should force Mullen's hand on Hevesy"

Stupid. You don't tell a HC how to do his job. If he doesn't get rid of the bad coach and the product suffers, you fire the head guy. That's what guys with BALLS do - see Greg Byrne.

3: "We have top 25 money/are a top 25 job/etc." and all variants

Yeah - no we aren't. Check the total staff pay, then check the rankings inside the SEC - you know, our IMMEDIATE competition.


SUMMATION: I'm not going to defend Mullen or rail on him, not fighting that battle any more. Fans gonna do what fans gonna do. But if you do choose to do one or the other, get the damn facts straight. Is that so hard to do?

Solid points.

[MadDawg]

87.68 avg rating... Oregon at 16 was less at 87.13. Only teams below us that rated higher were Michigan state #22 (87.70) and Michigan #37 (87.81).

Did you actually look or just guess?

Man, there you go with the facts and shit. We don't need no facts around here. It's all about emotion, man. Feel it.

[msstate7]

[QUOTE=msstate7;628823]I agree with that. With that said, which sec west program does your statement not
That statement just proves my point, the biggest problem our fanbase has is that some of us find every reason as to why we cant, why we arent good enough to compete.

I'm not saying we can't... hell, we did under the coach you guys hate so much. My point is we aren't gonna be able to do it consistently. There will be many more 4-6 sec west finishes than 1-4. We're last in recruiting budget, HC pay, assistant pay, and football budget. Let's say we find a HC that can consistently get us to finish #12 in the country recruiting-wise... that would be consistently 5th in the west. The deck is stacked against us and that's a fact

[BayouDawg]

Dan's true colors are showing. They started to show after his first loss to the bears. We lose one game and he pouts and takes down the countdown clock and stops putting emphasis on the game. In 14 after the Bama loss he pouts and mails in the rest of the season. When the going gets tough Mullen will blame everything else because surely it's not his fault. When he's challenge he picks up his ball and goes home instead of looking in the mirror and improving.

[BrunswickDawg]

I get you but some of those sports and what you are selling are completely 180 degrees from what you are recruiting in football and basketball. Tennis is made up of 75% international players and PGM has always had a natural in for many golfers. In fact, many thought we were missing out NOT having a stronger competition golf program with the PGM curriculum for many years. We use to play with the PGM guys and guys on the team years ago and there were PGM guys routinely beating team members. The state has also really amped up producing some talented young golfers and we have several on the team. Mix in some international players, etc.

But outside of coaching/team considerations athletes are looking for the same things regular students are looking for. I know, I was from out of state. I had Georgia College, Georgia Southern, UGA and MSU all recruiting me. State did it harder, offered me a scholarship, invited me to events. I chose State for the things I liked. Didn't matter that Athens had the 40 Watt and 1,000 other bars - I knew I could drink and chase girls and make friends anywhere. It was the place I was comfortable and felt wanted. It was that simple.

[gtowndawg]

Point on. And recruiting to Starkville is a hard damn job. Starkville is just a crappy college town. If we were smart some alum would invest some money in a area to make it more college friendly environment.

One of the dumbest things I've read today...

[Liverpooldawg]

Cohen does it. Howland does it. Schafer does it. Jackie did it. Tennis does it. Women's golf does it. Dano? Eh.

The little sports are really irrelevant to this arguement, totally different dynamic. In baseball, while we aren't really a top level program we DO have some real tradition of winning over quite a period of time. In basketball it doesn't fit the narrative here, but we really were competitive for a sustained period of time under Williams and Stansbury. I think we were behind only Kentucky and Florida in wins in the SEC over that time. Those programs have something to point back to that wasn't flash in a pan stuff followed by a return to a more normal losing. Football doesn't have that. It's that and our reletive lack of economic power in the SEC that we are fighting. As was pointed out above, we pay a decent, but not too safety for the head coach. Our assistant salaries are way behind the curve. That's not the head coach's fault.

[JoseBrown]

Sorry BrunswickDawg, must spread some rep around before giving to you again...

[WinningIsRelentless]

More kids than ever are attending college and the growth has been contributed to that. As far as other sports go well a baseball recruit is looking for something different than a football recruit. Your high end basketball recruits well let's just be honest and say they all think they are one and done and don't worry about the town they will be in

[BB30]

[QUOTE=msstate7;628823]I agree with that. With that said, which sec west program does your statement not
That statement just proves my point, the biggest problem our fanbase has is that some of us find every reason as to why we cant, why we arent good enough to compete.

No false, Pointing out facts and playing the poor ole msu card are two different things. It is delusional to say our job is as good of a job as alabama, A and M, LSU etc. Not including the teams in the east such as UGA,UF, TENN etc. If you are going to compare Mullen based on his SEC competition in recruiting etc then you need to compare his pay and assistants pay compared to the rest of the SEC. I by no means am defending Mullen he has put a terrible product on the field this year there is no arguing that. But some of our fans need to see the reality of the situation. For us to win and win consistently it is going to take time and a coach that loves our university and wants to be successful here(and he has to be a good coach). We are not going to hire some hot shot up and comer and get him to stay for 10-15 years plus. We are not going to hire a guy like Gary Patterson away from TCU. Not going to happen. So once the Mullen book is closed don't be disappointed when we don't land Nick Saban Jr. The facts are that State is a hard place to win big. That is not the poor ole msu. You have to realize that first to make progress. In our situation we have got to go outside the box and get creative with our coaching, marketing, everything.

[Really Clark?]

But outside of coaching/team considerations athletes are looking for the same things regular students are looking for. I know, I was from out of state. I had Georgia College, Georgia Southern, UGA and MSU all recruiting me. State did it harder, offered me a scholarship, invited me to events. I chose State for the things I liked. Didn't matter that Athens had the 40 Watt and 1,000 other bars - I knew I could drink and chase girls and make friends anywhere. It was the place I was comfortable and felt wanted. It was that simple.

But I was talking about those minor sports that are really different with a different mindset of what they are looking for. The international players are not necessarily looking at anything other than what is the best deal they can get. Golfers see an extensive track record of being selected for great opportunities after graduation. With those two sports it's really not the same as Basketball and Football.

[maroonmania]

Dan's true colors are showing. They started to show after his first loss to the bears. We lose one game and he pouts and takes down the countdown clock and stops putting emphasis on the game. In 14 after the Bama loss he pouts and mails in the rest of the season. When the going gets tough Mullen will blame everything else because surely it's not his fault. When he's challenge he picks up his ball and goes home instead of looking in the mirror and improving.

He can't improve, he already knows everything there is to know about football.***

[Dawgology]

All I hear is bullshit excuses for a bullshit product on the field this year. This is SEC football and you either bring your A game in all you do or you get left in the dust. Our coach hasn't ever gave his all in recruiting and he seems to have left his coaching "A" game in 2014. There is no excuse. Cohen has done it and Howell is doing it. Both of them have to recruit to Starkville and neither of them has had their teams ranked #1 in the land while at MSU.

[Cowboydawg]

The biggest problem our fanbase has is the poor ol MSU attitude and coming up with every reason as to why we cant, why we arent good enough, etc. We have more money, more resources, more talent and the best ability to get talent that we've ever had. If we had a guy who cared running the program...

Every team in the SEC has more money, more resources, more talent, and the best ability to get talent that they have ever had. We compete in the SEC. We did not move up in that pecking order.

[BB30]

Every team in the SEC has more money, more resources, more talent, and the best ability to get talent that they have ever had. We compete in the SEC. We did not move up in that pecking order.

Exactly

[blacklistedbully]

87.68 avg rating... Oregon at 16 was less at 87.13. Only teams below us that rated higher were Michigan state #22 (87.70) and Michigan #37 (87.81).

Did you actually look or just guess?

Did you??

Teams that finished below us in overall, but ahead in average recruit ranking:
Oregon
Stanford
SCar
ASU
UNM
Mich State
UF
VT
UPig
Miami
Mizzou
NC
Michigan

[civildawg]

We don't even have sec talent though. We have sun belt talent. That's on Mullen no ifs, ands, or buts

[blacklistedbully]

No, it's not. But our fans suck.

yes...you do.

[MoreCowbell]

Did you??

Teams that finished below us in overall, but ahead in average recruit ranking:
Oregon
Stanford
SCar
ASU
UNM
Mich State
UF
VT
UPig
Miami
Mizzou
NC
Michigan

I think you are looking at the wrong thing... He was right that only Mich. State and Michigan had a higher RPP. Here is link ... http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

[Dawg61]

Exactly


Every team in the SEC has more money, more resources, more talent, and the best ability to get talent that they have ever had. We compete in the SEC. We did not move up in that pecking order.

Aww poor ol Miss State, guess we should just enjoy our poundings and say thank you may we have another. We have more than enough money and resources to be a top 25 annual football program. Fact.

[Really Clark?]

Did you??

Teams that finished below us in overall, but ahead in average recruit ranking:
Oregon
Stanford
SCar
ASU
UNM
Mich State
UF
VT
UPig
Miami
Mizzou
NC
Michigan

Y'all are looking at different years or not the composite off of 247. MSState 7 numbers were right for the 2015 composite

[Really Clark?]

Aww poor ol Miss State, guess we should just enjoy our poundings and say thank you may we have another. We have more than enough money and resources to be a top 25 annual football program. Fact.

That's the disconnect though. We are not Top 25 in money and until recently where not even Top 50. We were 77th when Mullen was hired. If we do hit around $90 MIL this year that would have us around 30-35 nationally. Compound the fact that it's hard to be ranked in the Top 25 when you are last in your own division financially. We have closed the gap tremendously but we are about $250 MIL behind the league average combined over the last 5 years. If we stay on pace your statement will be accurate in a few years but it's not yet.

[Cowboydawg]

Aww poor ol Miss State, guess we should just enjoy our poundings and say thank you may we have another. We have more than enough money and resources to be a top 25 annual football program. Fact.

Might be asking too much but try going back and reading what my comment was referencing. The OP was insinuating that we had some type of competitive advantage based on money and resources. Our budget is 13th in the SEC. Fact.

[mic]

The staff doesn't work hard enough or care hard enough. It's that simple.

Bottom line... CCB

[Dawg61]

That's the disconnect though. We are not Top 25 in money and until recently where not even Top 50. We were 77th when Mullen was hired. If we do hit around $90 MIL this year that would have us around 30-35 nationally. Compound the fact that it's hard to be ranked in the Top 25 when you are last in your own division financially. We have closed the gap tremendously but we are about $250 MIL behind the league average combined over the last 5 years. If we stay on pace your statement will be accurate in a few years but it's not yet.

How many schools not in the top 35 financially are top 35 football programs? Money isn't everything once you get to a certain point. Only so many shoes and new weight rooms a football team needs to be good. After that its just splurging.

[blacklistedbully]

Y'all are looking at different years or not the composite off of 247. MSState 7 numbers were right for the 2015 composite

I was looking at Rivals. Either way...we had a year that should have propelled us more than it did in average player ranking, IMO.

[Political Hack]

How many schools not in the top 35 financially are top 35 football programs? Money isn't everything once you get to a certain point. Only so many shoes and new weight rooms a football team needs to be good. After that its just splurging.

It's difficult to overcome though. If Florida makes $25 million more than us per year, that doesn't seem insurmountable. However, over 4 years they get to invest an extra $100 million into facilities, coaches, contracts, exposure, bat copters, etc...

I haven't looked at the numbers in a long time but I bet $25 million was being generous too.

[Dawg61]

It's difficult to overcome though. If Florida makes $25 million more than us per year, that doesn't seem insurmountable. However, over 4 years they get to invest an extra $100 million into facilities, coaches, contracts, exposure, bat copters, etc...

I haven't looked at the numbers in a long time but I bet $25 million was being generous too.

We have more than enough money to compete. We don't need to be making crutches for our program. Lack of money should never be talked about because we can't do a damn thing about it.

[Political Hack]

We have more than enough money to compete. We don't need to be making crutches for our program. Lack of money should never be talked about because we can't do a damn thing about it.

Oh I agree it's not an excuse. It is a variable though. We have to find creative ways to overcome it.

[Liverpooldawg]

We have more than enough money to compete. We don't need to be making crutches for our program. Lack of money should never be talked about because we can't do a damn thing about it.

Money is relative.

[Cowboydawg]

It's difficult to overcome though. If Florida makes $25 million more than us per year, that doesn't seem insurmountable. However, over 4 years they get to invest an extra $100 million into facilities, coaches, contracts, exposure, bat copters, etc...

I haven't looked at the numbers in a long time but I bet $25 million was being generous too.

Unfortunately, that's not even close...

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

[Dawg61]

Money is relative.

We have enough. Any bitching about lack of it is just feeling sorry for ourselves. Don't create crutches.

[Political Hack]

Unfortunately, that's not even close...

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

I knew it was a lot higher than 25, but I didn't know it was $75 million vs $150 million. Wow.

They could build a new stadium every 2-3 years and still have more money than us to spend on other stuff.

[Really Clark?]

How many schools not in the top 35 financially are top 35 football programs? Money isn't everything once you get to a certain point. Only so many shoes and new weight rooms a football team needs to be good. After that its just splurging.

Annual Top 35 teams not in the Top 35 finically? Last 10 years? Interesting question. Clemson and Virginia Tech out of power 5 conferences and they both are like 40th. Boise as a non Power 5 school. That's it.

[Homedawg]

The point of money vs the rest of the country is worthless. We are next to last in our league. We play 8 games in our league!! Just like having the 20th best recruiting class puts you 6th or 7th in the west aNd 11-12th in the league usually. This isn't hard to understand. Is that a reason to keep Dan? No. He's on his last leg hear I'm afraid. And it's not a crutch. But it is a fact.

[Cooterpoot]

The biggest problem our fanbase has is the poor ol MSU attitude and coming up with every reason as to why we cant, why we arent good enough, etc. We have more money, more resources, more talent and the best ability to get talent that we've ever had. If we had a guy who cared running the program...

So does just about every school in the SEC West and most of the SEC

[blacklistedbully]

At some point the disparagement doesn't make much of a difference. If we can afford fantastic facilities, even if the others can afford to gold-plate their toilets, the advantage gained is minimal if at all impactful.

Where I see it possibly making a difference is in coaching staff salaries. If we can't compete because of money there, then we have a problem.

But is that the case? Are we unable to get and keep a top-notch staff because we don't have the money? Or is it a bean-counter did a cost-benefit analysis and determined our ROI is clearly better as is than if we ponied up for an elite staff and started winning more games more often? Is it even a question of getting the best monetary ROI, or is it a case of us losing money if we increase our staff salaries to at least SEC average?

Do we even need to be closer to SEC average in order to maintain a staff qualified to compete with our SEC brethren?

[Really Clark?]

People keep talking about the idea of a diminished return once schools get to a certain point money wise. And in one given year, it's probably true for the most part. But over even a short 5 year window, you are talking about a difference of $200-250 MIL just to be league average, nevermind the elite. That allows you to have an auxiliary staff that in some cases is 3 or 4 times what we can. When hiring or retaining assistants, doesn't matter what we can pay, which is very good, the ante can always be raised until it's out of our range. We are getting closer. I hope that the numbers don't drop back too much after the baseball stadium fundraising which is a significant part of this jump so we are closer to league average year in and year out.

[dawgoneyall]

1: "We didn't capitalize on 2014"

Not accurate. It's the upperclassmen that suck, the guys from the 2012 and 2013 classes mainly. Lot of attrition, lack of OL, and lack of talent. I don't care the ratings of the class, they just didn't work out. Go back and look at who is here and who isn't, it's very telling. Whether 2014 class and on pans out, remains to be seen, but we do have some good young players.

2: "Keenum should force Mullen's hand on Hevesy"

Stupid. You don't tell a HC how to do his job. If he doesn't get rid of the bad coach and the product suffers, you fire the head guy. That's what guys with BALLS do - see Greg Byrne.

3: "We have top 25 money/are a top 25 job/etc." and all variants

Yeah - no we aren't. Check the total staff pay, then check the rankings inside the SEC - you know, our IMMEDIATE competition.


SUMMATION: I'm not going to defend Mullen or rail on him, not fighting that battle any more. Fans gonna do what fans gonna do. But if you do choose to do one or the other, get the damn facts straight. Is that so hard to do?

State didn't recruit very well the last two year. Last year was a total cluster 17 which will set our program back a ouple of year at the least.

[GTHOM]

[QUOTE=GTHOM;628828]

I'm not saying we can't... hell, we did under the coach you guys hate so much. My point is we aren't gonna be able to do it consistently. There will be many more 4-6 sec west finishes than 1-4. We're last in recruiting budget, HC pay, assistant pay, and football budget. Let's say we find a HC that can consistently get us to finish #12 in the country recruiting-wise... that would be consistently 5th in the west. The deck is stacked against us and that's a fact

Ok and supporting a head coach that could give a shit about us helps us compete how?? Dan was good when he tried, he quit trying 2 years ago. Some would argue he wasnt that great before that. We arent going to a bowl this year, we are gonna get beat by BYU and Kentucky. If theres any die hard mullenites left we'll see what they say after we see more hot garbage performances and the historic ass kicking OM is gonna lay on us

[blacklistedbully]

Perhaps we need to keep assistant salaries comparatively low so we can periodically upgrade facilities?

[Maroons]

Dan's true colors are showing. They started to show after his first loss to the bears. We lose one game and he pouts and takes down the countdown clock and stops putting emphasis on the game. In 14 after the Bama loss he pouts and mails in the rest of the season. When the going gets tough Mullen will blame everything else because surely it's not his fault. When he's challenge he picks up his ball and goes home instead of looking in the mirror and improving.

Are you a competitor? Serious question.

I very much am. And if you and I are playing a high stakes game where you continuously get away with blatant cheating in order to win, I might be tempted to find somewhere else to go too. Newsflash - it wouldn't be because I don't care, or I'm scared, or I'm a quitter. Exactly the opposite - it would be because I really do care deeply about winning and I want a fair shot at it.

[BayouDawg]

Are you a competitor? Serious question.

I very much am. And if you and I are playing a high stakes game where you continuously get away with blatant cheating in order to win, I might be tempted to find somewhere else to go too. Newsflash - it wouldn't be because I don't care, or I'm scared, or I'm a quitter. Exactly the opposite - it would be because I really do care deeply about winning and I want a fair shot at it.

A true competitor takes his lumps and gets up and tries again. A true competitor doesn't look for excuses like unfair recruiting advantages. A true coach competitor wouldn't handicap himself by allowing a friend to stay on staff at the expense of progress. Nobody is forcing him to stay.

[Really Clark?]

A true competitor takes his lumps and gets up and tries again. A true competitor doesn't look for excuses like unfair recruiting advantages. A true coach competitor wouldn't handicap himself by allowing a friend to stay on staff at the expense of progress. Nobody is forcing him to stay.

So Saban is not a competitor then?

"At Michigan State, we were never No. 1," Saban said. "That was always Michigan. It was always U-M this or that."

"If I'd gone to Ohio it would have been Ohio State. Indiana, it is Purdue. Chicago, it's every other school in the Big Ten. Wherever you go you're looking at someone else when you're recruiting, trying to catch up, trying to convince someone you're up there."

A main reason he left to take on a rebuilding job at LSU.

[BayouDawg]

So Saban is not a competitor then?

"At Michigan State, we were never No. 1," Saban said. "That was always Michigan. It was always U-M this or that."

"If I'd gone to Ohio it would have been Ohio State. Indiana, it is Purdue. Chicago, it's every other school in the Big Ten. Wherever you go you're looking at someone else when you're recruiting, trying to catch up, trying to convince someone you're up there."

A main reason he left to take on a rebuilding job at LSU.

He left didn't he? He didn't stay around stealing money. He didn't think he could get it done so he left and that's fine. If Dan doesn't think he can get it done then he can leave. Nobody is forcing him to stay. Dan was so close here and it's just sad that he let the '14 Bama game crush him. It ain't gonna be any easier wherever he goes as long Hevesy is coaching his O-line.

[Really Clark?]

He left didn't he? He didn't stay around stealing money. He didn't think he could get it done so he left and that's fine. If Dan doesn't think he can get it done then he can leave. Nobody is forcing him to stay. Dan was so close here and it's just sad that he let the '14 Bama game crush him. It ain't gonna be any easier wherever he goes as long Hevesy is coaching his O-line.

Your first sentence stated "A true competitor takes his lumps and gets up and tries again." You challenged the other poster on this exact premise of up picking up and going elsewhere. Don't go trying to twist it around now.

[Maroonthirteen]

"stealing".....needs to stop.

It isn't stealing if your employer is handing you the check. Also.... WE agreed to pay him that amount.

[Maroons]

"stealing".....needs to stop.

It isn't stealing if your employer is handing you the check. Also.... WE agreed to pay him that amount.

Exactly. Did people really think we would win 9 or 10 games again after losing the best and most important player in school history and with a roster full of Soph. and Fr.? I understand Dan is responsible for program and roster management, but the dumbassery with no perspective needs to stop.

[BayouDawg]

Your first sentence stated "A true competitor takes his lumps and gets up and tries again." You challenged the other poster on this exact premise of up picking up and going elsewhere. Don't go trying to twist it around now.

I guarantee Saban never mailed it in at Michigan state. That's my whole point. How competitive can you really be if you just quit and roll over?

[Really Clark?]

I guarantee Saban never mailed it in at Michigan state. That's my whole point. How competitive can you really be if you just quit and roll over?

No, one of your main points is a true competitor doesn't use recruiting advantages as an excuse. That is exactly what Saban did and why he left. In fact you said unfair recruiting advantages isn't an excuse. If that's the case, then Saban is not only NOT a competitor but also a coward since he was not battling cheating, he was just at the second class school of the state.

[BayouDawg]

No, one of your main points is a true competitor doesn't use recruiting advantages as an excuse. That is exactly what Saban did and why he left. In fact you said unfair recruiting advantages isn't an excuse. If that's the case, then Saban is not only NOT a competitor but also a coward since he was not battling cheating, he was just at the second class school of the state.

If you wanna make excuses for this staffs lack of effort on the recruiting trail then go right ahead.

[Really Clark?]

If you wanna make excuses for this staffs lack of effort on the recruiting trail then go right ahead.

Your are just being obtuse, willfully ignorant or just deflecting from your stance. I was using your own words you posted. Said nothing about our staffs recruiting or any defense of them. Go back and read what you wrote.

[BayouDawg]

Your are just being obtuse, willfully ignorant or just deflecting from your stance. I was using your own words you posted. Said nothing about our staffs recruiting or any defense of them. Go back and read what you wrote.

You're the one that drug this down a rabbit hole. I've tried to stay point. The point I was making was that Dan has checked out and I personally question someone's competitiveness when they check out and go through the motions. You have a different opinion and that's fine

[Really Clark?]

You're the one that drug this down a rabbit hole. I've tried to stay point. The point I was making was that Dan has checked out and I personally question someone's competitiveness when they check out and go through the motions. You have a different opinion and that's fine

What? You've changed the point from your original post about competitors. Keep twisting and changing a you want but those were your words I used. Not mine.

[BayouDawg]

What? You've changed the point from your original post about competitors. Keep twisting and changing a you want but those were your words I used. Not mine.

Dude you're killing me. It's fine to know that you're at a disadvantage. However I do not think it is acceptable to use that as an excuse to half ass it. Sure Saban said they were at a disadvantage, but I guarantee he didnt use that as an excuse for mediocrity. I admit I made a blanket statement, but that was my point. I didnt know I was gonna have to disect it and come up with a thesis on it.