Robbie Faullk had a tweet

[Todd4State]

That made me think about our recruiting and how good we would be with them on our team. He listed some guys that probably should have gotten SEC offers and that list included Dylan Bradley, Genard Avery, Jaylen Smith, Shareef White, Darrell Henderson and another guy I am going to throw out there that Robby didn't mention I don't think is Sam Craft. These are the kind of guys that we have to find and take for us to be successful and not the out of state three star project who is "athletic". We need to find all of the guys that are players. And to be fair we obviously have found some over the years too such as Farrod Green who I really like, Jameon Lewis, Ben Beckwith was a walk-on who turned out to be a good player for us and many others that I'm missing so I don't think it's a massive problem or anything like that. But I do think we need to improve in this area a little bit. We're playing walk-ons some in back-up roles at the linebacker position and a guy like Avery would help us out there and Smith and Craft would help our WR situation some as well.

And on Henderson it sounds like he was doing a drill at Big Dawg Camp and then pulled a hamstring and we kind of dropped him. Maybe we're a little too strict about Big Dawg Camp and maybe we place a little too much emphasis on Big Dawg Camp performance?

It kind of makes me wonder about whether we should take a guy like Kaleem Reddix and maybe we shouldn't have parted ways with Emmanuel Dabney and JJ Russell too. Also, on the Big Dawg Camp theme- John Dale is an offensive lineman that committed to Memphis recently and he didn't test out at a MSU Camp. Time will tell on all of this.

I guess I would just like to see us take more chances on in state guys because sometimes they do turn out to be really good players. That's how you find a Jerry Rice or a Brett Favre. And to be fair- Ole Miss passed on all of these players too.

[msugolf]

That's funny you mention that because I recently had that conversation with someone about how this staff seems to have adopted the Polk method of recruiting where the emphasis became his camp.

[I seen it dawg]

Was just thinking that about camps. It's the ultimate way to be lazy as **** about recruiting. If you don't do well at camp then adios you can't play for us. Lazy as ****.

[smootness]

I guess I would just like to see us take more chances on in state guys because sometimes they do turn out to be really good players. That's how you find a Jerry Rice or a Brett Favre. And to be fair- Ole Miss passed on all of these players too.

Sure, sometimes they do. But %s matter here, you can't hand out a bunch of scholarships on the hope that some of them become good players.

You're essentially asking us to bat 1.000 in recruiting, which is obviously impossible. We've done as well or better than anyone in the area of finding lower-rated guyse. I just don't know how you can expect us to do better than we've done there. You're always going to have some guys that go to smaller schools and play well. Always.

[Tbonewannabe]

Sure, sometimes they do. But %s matter here, you can't hand out a bunch of scholarships on the hope that some of them become good players.

You're essentially asking us to bat 1.000 in recruiting, which is obviously impossible. We've done as well or better than anyone in the area of finding lower-rated guyse. I just don't know how you can expect us to do better than we've done there. You're always going to have some guys that go to smaller schools and play well. Always.

Sometimes getting passed over by the big schools is what gives them the extra drive to push themselves. There are cases where you wonder how someone was missed but you don't know how a person will perform in your system and develop. 5 star are rated that because more than likely wherever they go, they will produce. You can look at UNM as an example of that. The reason Bama is so good is they get all 5 star/4 stars and wash out the % that don't pan out. You can look at the 5 stars and 4 stars we have gotten and about 1/2 get to the production you think they are capable of. To me that is what the stars mean is how likely are they going to meet their potential. When you time someone then you know how fast they are, it is a very small chance that they will get faster. The bigger potential is in lineman who are going to add muscle and you don't know how they are going to handle the added bulk.

Look at Fletcher Cox as an example. He was a 4 star? and had to add muscle to get to playing weight for Dline. Look at Chris Jones and it slowed him down which moved him from DE to DT. He wanted to stay a DE but adding muscle made him a great DT. He didn't really buy in until his last year. This is also why Oline can look pretty good in high school at 280 lb but add another 20 or so lbs and their footwork slows down or they lose flexibilty. You can't tell how their body will handle the extra muscle that is required for playing in the SEC.

[Irondawg]

I don't know that we put too much emphasis on Big Dawg. Dak got an offer after that camp just on his leadership skills alone.

I think Mullen wants to see first of all who wants to be there. For instance I don't think Reddix made his way to campus all summer. Sometimes situations don't allow it, other times the player just doesn't make the effort. I think the staff puts a big emphasis on the guys who make the effort to earn an offer.

Then at camp I think they just want guys that compete. Showing out it obviously important, but you can learn a lot about a player just by seeing how he competes. I remember back when we were recruiting AJ Jefferson and keeping him warm they loved his motor but wasn't sure he really had the size to excel. In the end they took a chance and it paid off, but there have been other guys that were similar who did nothing.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Yes it's always easier to say we should've taken a guy who goes to a lower school & does well. However these are also the Brandon Wells, Chris Rayford, Cole Carter, & Deonta Evans that we do take that people bag on because they weren't talented enough to cut it in the SEC. It's a very thin line between who to take & who not to. I think we've done a pretty good job overall.

Concerning Big Dawg I don't think it's a make or break deal offer wise but it is a big deal because most of the time you have your top targets there competing against each other. If they're not performing well against similar skilled talent it does make you take a closer look. Also if a lesser known guy comes in & dominates it makes you take a closer look at their film to see if that great camp performance translates to the field.

[EdDawg]

Someone will always "step up" on lower tier teams even if they have terrible talent all around on the team. Some player will get a vast amount of playing time, gain confidence and look a lot better than they would have on a team loaded with talent.

A good example is a NBA team with no star players. One person on that team will always step into the star role and develop into a better player.

Essentially you are putting only small fish into one pond. Eventually one of the fish will grow bigger than the others.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

The guys listed are doing good in what conferences? I bet Holloway would be the Christian McCaffrey of the AAC. Yes those diamonds in the rough come along but dont it usually take 3 or 4 year before they reach the potential and then the window for them to really contribute is smaller. On the other hand you have players like 4* borderline 5* LB Leo Lewis who is a RF now and is making an immediate impact and will continue (barring injury) to make an impact for longer.

[Maroons]

Was just thinking that about camps. It's the ultimate way to be lazy as **** about recruiting. If you don't do well at camp then adios you can't play for us. Lazy as ****.

Do you really think Mullen is a lazy talent evaluator? Seriously???

[Todd4State]

Sure, sometimes they do. But %s matter here, you can't hand out a bunch of scholarships on the hope that some of them become good players.

You're essentially asking us to bat 1.000 in recruiting, which is obviously impossible. We've done as well or better than anyone in the area of finding lower-rated guyse. I just don't know how you can expect us to do better than we've done there. You're always going to have some guys that go to smaller schools and play well. Always.

I'm not asking them to bat 1.000 in recruiting at all. I'm saying I'd rather take a project from Mississippi over a project from Alabama or Florida when given the choice between the two. So basically maybe 2-3 more guys from Mississippi.

[Todd4State]

Someone will always "step up" on lower tier teams even if they have terrible talent all around on the team. Some player will get a vast amount of playing time, gain confidence and look a lot better than they would have on a team loaded with talent.

A good example is a NBA team with no star players. One person on that team will always step into the star role and develop into a better player.

Essentially you are putting only small fish into one pond. Eventually one of the fish will grow bigger than the others.

I think that holds water in some cases but some of these guys are going to play in the NFL or get an opportunity to do so too. That kind of negates the conference argument because if you are good enough to play in the NFL you can play in the SEC.

[Steakonastick]

For every diamond you find two other guys don't pan out. I think Mullen uses the camps more so to see who wants to compete then just go off a tape and inflated high school numbers. If a local kid wants an offer why miss every camp?

[ShotgunDawg]

This equation you guys are trying to solve is super simple:

How long would it take for an NFL team to begin sliding backwards if they never had first or second round picks while everyone else did?

It's true that this staff has hit on a ton of lower rated players, but that just isn't a sustainable business model for anyone. Without first round picks, it's just extremely difficult to acquire premium, game changing talent.

If an NFL, MLB, or NBA team went without top round picks, they'd eventually not be able to compete.

No one is a super scout. No one. Predicting human beings is too difficult.

[Steakonastick]

I've always had my own star system:

5 star- anybody and their mother can go to a Friday night game and realize he's a man among boys.

3 and 4 star- not much difference between the two. But a lot of the time it's their body type.

[Schultzy]

There are so many players from Alabama HS football in the 20-45 range that would make our dandy dozen. We have to keep recruiting Louisiana and Alabama, it's easy picking for us on those guys and it provides us with a larger pool of players to choose from.

If anything, we under utilized this talent pool for decades.

[ShotgunDawg]

There are so many players from Alabama HS football in the 20-45 range that would make our dandy dozen. We have to keep recruiting Louisiana and Alabama, it's easy picking for us on those guys and it provides us with a larger pool of players to choose from.

If anything, we under utilized this talent pool for decades.

This is what we already do. You can only sign 25 and must be picky.

Signing the 20-45 players in Alabama and Louisiana gets you a bunch of nice players and no difference makers unless you get lucky, which is what our team completely consists of. We don't have bad players. We have good players. We just don't have game changers.

All those guys are 3rd+ round caliber players. Sometimes they turn into Dak and Tom Brady, but 95% of the time they don't. It's why they are 3rd rounders and not 1st or 2nd rounders. They just don't possess game changing tools.

[sorrydog]

I somewhat agree, but even this doesn't always hold true.
I watched Ashton Shumpert his senior year of high school and
would have thought he was a can't miss 5*.

Of course, I only saw him carry the ball 8 times, but he did score 5 touchdowns and pick up 235 yards.

[I seen it dawg]

Do you really think Mullen is a lazy talent evaluator? Seriously???

I can damn sure tell you we get out worked as a complete staff by a helluva lot of teams. He's the boss so if the yeezys fit....

[parabrave]

Was just thinking that about camps. It's the ultimate way to be lazy as **** about recruiting. If you don't do well at camp then adios you can't play for us. Lazy as ****.

I had a conversation with Coach Gonzales at a signing day function in Gulfport a few years ago. I asked him if a kid needed to go to the camp to be recruited or did they have close relationships with high school coaches. especially MSU grads, who would send them film of prospective recruits. He said that they relied heavily on the camp and had to attend the camp. And yes I did mention to him that that was kind of lazy. Back in the 70's MSU had pipelines at Coast schools such as Gulfport and Moss Point because of Miller and JE Locaino. Heck it seems that type of recruiting is an lost art now.

[smootness]

I'm not asking them to bat 1.000 in recruiting at all. I'm saying I'd rather take a project from Mississippi over a project from Alabama or Florida when given the choice between the two. So basically maybe 2-3 more guys from Mississippi.

You may not think you are, but that's exactly what you're doing. And keep in mind that if you're avoiding the projects from other states, you're missing out on guys like Dak and Preston Smith. Our staff has done a great job of finding under-the-radar talent in multiple states. And they've been the best at it overall in Mississippi. I'm just not sure how you're wanting us to be better in that area.

[bulldawg28]

I can damn sure tell you we get out worked as a complete staff by a helluva lot of teams. He's the boss so if the yeezys fit....

Lol @yeezy's.

[Todd4State]

You may not think you are, but that's exactly what you're doing. And keep in mind that if you're avoiding the projects from other states, you're missing out on guys like Dak and Preston Smith. Our staff has done a great job of finding under-the-radar talent in multiple states. And they've been the best at it overall in Mississippi. I'm just not sure how you're wanting us to be better in that area.

I think the difference is we were taking more Mississippi projects during Dak and Preston's era and seem to have gone away from is around 2014 or so. Either that or we're missing them more. I just know that it seems like recently there are more Mississippi guys playing well at other schools and we are under the 85 man limit so it seems like we could have taken a few more and not really compromised the out of state guys. Especially at linebacker where we have walk-ins the two deep.

We need to hit on the higher rated o-line guys in state as well. We haven't done well there either. If we hit on 80% of Womack, Patterson, Aaron Morris, Lashley, and Rod Taylor we're probably a good bit better as well.

[gravedigger]

I've always had my own star system:

5 star- anybody and their mother can go to a Friday night game and realize he's a man among boys.

3 and 4 star- not much difference between the two. But a lot of the time it's their body type.

The one that mullen uses:
1 star (highest) Leader, beats his man on every play. Clearly next level

2 star - same as 1 star but not a leader.

3 star - has measureables for position, could have questionable competition level but excells. Leader.

Eta: this is how the eval starts. Then they talk to the kid and then they "measure" him at a camp. I think mullen places a high emphasis on the personality of the kid and if hes coachable which could account for our low washout rate.

Fwiw I am a fan of this. It isnt flashy and doesnt make national tv on the front end, but it does filter out many kids who arent capable of grasping a playbook or adapting to college life.