Interesting, UNC scheduled to go before NCAA for "Procedural" hearing...

[WSOPdawg]

"Procedural" hearing on academic improprieties to discuss, among other items, a statue of limitations for certain alleged illegalities dating back to 2010 on October 28th. Here's the link...

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17678885/ncaa-sets-oct-28-hearing-date-north-carolina-tar-heels-academic-case


It will be interesting to see if they're successful or not as this can directly affect TCUN given how long they've managed to drag this thing out what with their exemplary cooperation.

According to the article, decisions originating from the hearing could be four weeks to a couple of months away (which throws it into early 2017).

[WSOPdawg]

Bumping for discussion

[M.Fillmore]

We talk about how the bears are connected. UNC should have had about a 5 year death penalty for hoops. They completely prostituted the entire school. If I was a UNC grad I would be majorly PO'ed.

[BeastMan]

Not much to discuss. This hearing is the equivalent to pre-trial motions by a defense attorney. Take some shots because you have nothing to lose. Best case scenario for UNC is getting a bunch of stuff thrown out prior to going before the COI. I realize everyone in this state will try to make an apples to apples comparison to the OM case but I don't see it. The UNC academic case revolves around systematic grade rigging at the university which brings accreditation and a bunch of bureaucratic stuff into play. OM's academic allegations are pre enrollment and involves ACT improprieties. Completely different situations. You'd be foolish to look for any consistency between NCAA investigations but if you must look for anything, it's if UNC's counsel has any success in this procedural hearing. If they were to mop the floor with the NCAA in this hearing, which no one expects, it may give hope to a similar defense strategy for OM. They say they're really happy with the response so one wouldn't think they'd piggyback another school's strategy.

[msstate7]

Not much to discuss. This hearing is the equivalent to pre-trial motions by a defense attorney. Take some shots because you have nothing to lose. Best case scenario for UNC is getting a bunch of stuff thrown out prior to going before the COI. I realize everyone in this state will try to make an apples to apples comparison to the OM case but I don't see it. The UNC academic case revolves around systematic grade rigging at the university which brings accreditation and a bunch of bureaucratic stuff into play. OM's academic allegations are pre enrollment and involves ACT improprieties. Completely different situations. You'd be foolish to look for any consistency between NCAA investigations but if you must look for anything, it's if UNC's counsel has any success in this procedural hearing. If they were to mop the floor with the NCAA in this hearing, which no one expects, it may give hope to a similar defense strategy for OM. They say they're really happy with the response so one wouldn't think they'd piggyback another school's strategy.

Om has already said they're guilty in their response, correct? Kinda hard to change a "plea" after you admit guilt

[BeastMan]

Om has already said they're guilty in their response, correct? Kinda hard to change a "plea" after you admit guilt

Basically. They admitted to a bunch but want to argue a few things down. There is a lot of talk by OM media that they are going to "take the gloves off" and stop cooperating. I don't see how that's a good idea but whatever. That's on them. You already have the UF AD job filled & the amazing Bjork was never considered. We have LSU open now with Texas likely to be open soon as well (among others). Freeze won't be mentioned for any of those big jobs. It's 100% due to the handling of this NCAA deal.

Hot take: Art Briles will get more consideration on this year's coaching carousel than Freeze. I'm not saying that right or wrong or whatever. Just that it's amazing.

[msstate7]

Basically. They admitted to a bunch but want to argue a few things down. There is a lot of talk by OM media that they are going to "take the gloves off" and stop cooperating. I don't see how that's a good idea but whatever. That's on them. You already have the UF AD job filled & the amazing Bjork was never considered. We have LSU open now with Texas likely to be open soon as well (among others). Freeze won't be mentioned for any of those big jobs. It's 100% due to the handling of this NCAA deal.

Hot take: Art Briles will get more consideration on this year's coaching carousel than Freeze. I'm not saying that right or wrong or whatever. Just that it's amazing.

Let's say freeze gets a show cause... is there anyway om can show cause to keep him and do you think they would attempt to do this?

[BeastMan]

Let's say freeze gets a show cause... is there anyway om can show cause to keep him and do you think they would attempt to do this?

No idea. I don't know how all that works.

[Technetium]

I'll have to look up more later, but if memory serves me, I believe most of the academic accusations by the NCAA were already thrown out, including everything against men's basketball. I believe the argument was made that the NCAA doesn't actually have any rules against super-easy classes. The NCAA didn't want to try to set a precedent for legitimizing academic standards of an institution, since that opens up a whole other can of worms and would likely be rejected by the member institutions, and so dropped the accusations related to those easy-pass classes since technically the students did turn in work (it was just graded *incredibly* loosely). Thus, no on here expects UNC to get hit very hard for the accusations that did stick.

Again, this is going off of dated information, as I haven't looked into it much in a while and local sports radio around RDU hasn't been discussing it for a long time.

[WSOPdawg]

Not much to discuss. This hearing is the equivalent to pre-trial motions by a defense attorney. Take some shots because you have nothing to lose. Best case scenario for UNC is getting a bunch of stuff thrown out prior to going before the COI. I realize everyone in this state will try to make an apples to apples comparison to the OM case but I don't see it. The UNC academic case revolves around systematic grade rigging at the university which brings accreditation and a bunch of bureaucratic stuff into play. OM's academic allegations are pre enrollment and involves ACT improprieties. Completely different situations. You'd be foolish to look for any consistency between NCAA investigations but if you must look for anything, it's if UNC's counsel has any success in this procedural hearing. If they were to mop the floor with the NCAA in this hearing, which no one expects, it may give hope to a similar defense strategy for OM. They say they're really happy with the response so one wouldn't think they'd piggyback another school's strategy.

That's my biggest fear, for the NCAA to get hoodwinked by a pack of lawyers and have major Level I violations "dismissed" on technicality. It's my understanding this "Procedural" hearing is somewhat NOT the norm for the NCAA as it adds another step in the process. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

[BeastMan]

That's my biggest fear, for the NCAA to get hoodwinked by a pack of lawyers and have major Level I violations "dismissed" on technicality. It's my understanding this "Procedural" hearing is somewhat NOT the norm for the NCAA as it adds another step in the process. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

UNC's case is not apples to apples to OM's case. They could get anything from the death penalty to off scott free and it would have no bearing on OM's case.

[dawgoneyall]

"Procedural" hearing on academic improprieties to discuss, among other items, a statue of limitations for certain alleged illegalities dating back to 2010 on October 28th. Here's the link...

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17678885/ncaa-sets-oct-28-hearing-date-north-carolina-tar-heels-academic-case


It will be interesting to see if they're successful or not as this can directly affect TCUN given how long they've managed to drag this thing out what with their exemplary cooperation.

According to the article, decisions originating from the hearing could be four weeks to a couple of months away (which throws it into early 2017).

Maybe, maybe not but I would think the statue of limitations would begin with the start of the investigation. Not from now.
That would make it coming up on 4 years.

[lamont]

Let's say freeze gets a show cause... is there anyway om can show cause to keep him and do you think they would attempt to do this?

Absolutely no way. Show cause means he cant coach.

[msstate7]

Absolutely no way. Show cause means he cant coach.

So the ucla coaching staff is one short? They kept their assistant with show cause

[Bodaski]

There is a huge difference in taking a sop class vs cheating on Buying GED diplomas and cheating on ACT entrance exams, huge difference. OM has that to look forward to.

[Jack Lambert]

UNC basketball carries way more weight with the NCAA then Ole Miss Football. It's about the money and the NCAA basketball tourney that UNC brings ratings.

[DeviousDawg]

Let's say freeze gets a show cause... is there anyway om can show cause to keep him and do you think they would attempt to do this?

WHEN, not if, Freeze receives his show cause, Freeze and his whole staff will be thrown under the bus, and Ole Miss fans will be "shocked" that Freeze would allow himself and his staff to cheat and ruin their university's ethically perfect name. Then they will hire a real coach, who will struggle to recruit while on probation, and the OM fan base will want him fired.

They beat off to stars, but will throw a coach under the bus for cheating after the NCAA drops the hammer. Their entire fan base needs to google "definition of double standard" and then reflect on how it applies to themselves. I'll provide an example for any rebel lurkers....

The same person who will yell racial slurs at an African American student athlete for going to a school other than Ole Miss, will roll out the red carpet in the halls of the Inn at Ole Miss while providing limitless amounts of cash (actually there is a limit according to John Miller, but I digress) to a similar African American prospective student athlete and his family. Also, Ole Miss claimed this same man was disassociated from the university, yet he has pictures on his Facebook with the athletic director of the same university. That right there, is a double double standard.

[Technetium]

UNC basketball carries way more weight with the NCAA then Ole Miss Football. It's about the money and the NCAA basketball tourney that UNC brings ratings.

Again, pretty sure all accusations against men's basketball were already removed in the updated NOA. People expecting UNC to get hammered hard are likely to be disappointed, according to the last info I received a few months ago. Will check again.

[Tripp McNeely]

WHEN, not if, Freeze receives his show cause, Freeze and his whole staff will be thrown under the bus, and Ole Miss fans will be "shocked" that Freeze would allow himself and his staff to cheat and ruin their university's ethically perfect name. Then they will hire a real coach, who will struggle to recruit while on probation, and the OM fan base will want him fired.

They beat off to stars, but will throw a coach under the bus for cheating after the NCAA drops the hammer. Their entire fan base needs to google "definition of double standard" and then reflect on how it applies to themselves. I'll provide an example for any rebel lurkers....

The same person who will yell racial slurs at an African American student athlete for going to a school other than Ole Miss, will roll out the red carpet in the halls of the Inn at Ole Miss while providing limitless amounts of cash (actually there is a limit according to John Miller, but I digress) to a similar African American prospective student athlete and his family. Also, Ole Miss claimed this same man was disassociated from the university, yet he has pictures on his Facebook with the athletic director of the same university. That right there, is a double double standard.

I like this alter ego much better than your other one!!

[Bubb Rubb]

Absolutely no way. Show cause means he cant coach.

No....he can still coach - it's easiest to do so if the coach stays at the institution where he was employed when he got the show cause. Other schools can hire a coach with a show cause, but if the allegations are serious enough, the school understands that they may have to share some of the penalties if they hire him. Also, they would be on the radar and would be punished more severely if that coach committed violations while being employed there.

So the short answer is that it's next to impossible that a school would hire a coach with a show cause in place, but not necessarily a slam dunk that a school would fire a coach over a show cause, since they are already serving penalties in the first place. But the coach is certainly still employable. A school just has to "show cause" as to why they want to hire the coach and understand the risks and exposure that comes with it.

[WSOPdawg]

No....he can still coach - it's easiest to do so if the coach stays at the institution where he was employed when he got the show cause. Other schools can hire a coach with a show cause, but if the allegations are serious enough, the school understands that they may have to share some of the penalties if they hire him. Also, they would be on the radar and would be punished more severely if that coach committed violations while being employed there.

So the short answer is that it's next to impossible that a school would hire a coach with a show cause in place, but not necessarily a slam dunk that a school would fire a coach over a show cause, since they are already serving penalties in the first place. But the coach is certainly still employable. A school just has to "show cause" as to why they want to hire the coach and understand the risks and exposure that comes with it.

Well that's just pretty dang glorious as we may get to watch the Beav wallow in his misery of a mess that he, himself, helped to create.

If this does become the case and he keeps his job, then the odds increase significantly imo for TCUN to become repeat offenders soon down the NCAA road because a leopard can't change its spots.

[Liverpooldawg]

They won't change as long as they have a program. It won't matter who the coach is. This really isn't about Freeze. He just works there.

[jumbo]

Absolutely no way. Show cause means he cant coach.


Not exactly. It means the school has to go before the NCAA and show cause as to why any sanctions/penalties that were imposed individually to the coach shouldn't follow him to a new job. Auburn hired Pearl with a couple months left on his.