Croom vs Mullen in recruiting

[dawgday166]

Now I'm not a huge Croom fan. And he certainly couldn't run an offense or recruit a good QB. But I was curious about something so I went and did a little research. Caveat - I give Croom credit for the 2009 class since it was almost entirely full of verbal commitments and Dan honored all of them I believe.

Original Croom recruits currently in NFL:
Banks
Cox
G. Jackson
Love
McPhee
Slay (originally signed in 2009)
Wright

Note: Sherrod was a Croom recruit also. Broke his leg and is no longer in league.

Mullen recruits in NFL:
Johnson
Jones
McKinney
Prescott
Redmond
Smith

Croom 7 in 4 years. Mullen 6 in 6 years.

Croom was starting to recruit pretty well. Wasn't a HC tho IMO. And I will say all of Croom's recruits except Love played their entire career under Dan.

[msstate7]

Croom -- 21-38
Mullen -- 57-37

What's the point of this thread? Jeez

[dawgday166]

People are talking about putting folks into the league. And we're also talking about recruiting. Dan has been here 6 full years recruiting. I was just curious myself.

[CadaverDawg]

How many of those Croom recruits make it to the NFL without Dan's development, proper usage, and a team that was actually competitive enough to even watch for scouts to look for talent?

Not understanding the point of the thread.

[msstate7]

People are talking about putting folks into the league. And we're also talking about recruiting. Dan has been here 6 full years recruiting. I was just curious myself.
Would it be more fun to see more state players in the NFL while losing pretty much every game here or winning more here and seeing less in the NFL?

[dawgday166]

How many of those Croom recruits make it to the NFL without Dan's development, proper usage, and a team that was actually competitive enough to even watch for scouts to look for talent?

Not understanding the point of the thread.

That could very well be true. Especially the D backfield positions. I think Croom was pretty decent with O and D lines tho.

[Homedawg]

Croom -- 21-38
Mullen -- 57-37

What's the point of this thread? Jeez

You must spread some reputation..........

[basedog]

Croom -- 21-38
Mullen -- 57-37

What's the point of this thread? Jeez

+1

Stars matter****** or How many are in the NFL matter***** and winning isn't in the big picture*****

[CadaverDawg]

Croom -- 21-38
Mullen -- 57-37

What's the point of this thread? Jeez

[Drops mic]

[dawgday166]

Would it be more fun to see more state players in the NFL while losing pretty much every game here or winning more here and seeing less in the NFL?

I'd like to win games here obviously. But what is holding us back from going even further IMO is the O-line and recruiting overall. Plus Dan is good for 1 to 2 losses a year due to bad clock management.

[CadaverDawg]

I'd like to win games here obviously. But what is holding us back from going even further IMO is the O-line and recruiting overall. Plus Dan is good for 1 to 2 losses a year due to bad clock management.

I would be all for firing Hev & hiring Croom as OL coach. Can we make that happen?

[HSVDawg]

Now I'm not a huge Croom fan. And he certainly couldn't run an offense or recruit a good QB. But I was curious about something so I went and did a little research. Caveat - I give Croom credit for the 2009 class since it was almost entirely full of verbal commitments and Dan honored all of them I believe.

Original Croom recruits currently in NFL:
Banks
Cox
G. Jackson
Love
McPhee
Slay (originally signed in 2009)
Wright

Note: Sherrod was a Croom recruit also. Broke his leg and is no longer in league.

Mullen recruits in NFL:
Johnson
Jones
McKinney
Prescott
Redmond
Smith

Croom 7 in 4 years. Mullen 6 in 6 years.

Croom was starting to recruit pretty well. Wasn't a HC tho IMO. And I will say all of Croom's recruits except Love played their entire career under Dan.

There are some serious flaws in your methodology. For starters, you crediting Croom with the 09 class seriously swings the argument in his favor. 5 out of the 6 guys you have under his talley were from that 09 class alone that Mulen eventually signed. Secondly, this is a list of only current NFL players. You are leaving out a lot of guys from both categories that made it but are no longer there (Sherrod, Dixon, JRob, Ballard, Josh Boyd?, Denico Autry? Jamar Chaney, probably several others). Those guys still count. Also, I don't see Chris White listed and I'm pretty sure he is still in the league. But if not, add him to the list above. Long story short, you need to reevaluate your selection criteria.

Truth be told, I think Croom had started to figure the recruiting thing out finally around 2008. Unfortunately it was too little, too late. I think on the whole, Mullen has been a better recruiter / evlauator of talent, but Croom did a way better job on the OL and at RB.

[Really Clark?]

Now I'm not a huge Croom fan. And he certainly couldn't run an offense or recruit a good QB. But I was curious about something so I went and did a little research. Caveat - I give Croom credit for the 2009 class since it was almost entirely full of verbal commitments and Dan honored all of them I believe.

Original Croom recruits currently in NFL:
Banks
Cox
G. Jackson
Love
McPhee
Slay (originally signed in 2009)
Wright

Note: Sherrod was a Croom recruit also. Broke his leg and is no longer in league.

Mullen recruits in NFL:
Johnson
Jones
McKinney
Prescott
Redmond
Smith

Croom 7 in 4 years. Mullen 6 in 6 years.

Croom was starting to recruit pretty well. Wasn't a HC tho IMO. And I will say all of Croom's recruits except Love played their entire career under Dan.

Slay was not a commit to Croom. He was a Mullen recruit and we got him right before signing day. Like with Perkins. Also, how much credit to you give Mullen for keeping those guys committed and what are the number of total players who have been drafted or spent time on an active roster between the two. Pretty sure Mullen has guys not on that list who got NFL shots. Ballard and JRob would be two did this list a year ago.

[dawgday166]

I would be all for firing Hev & hiring Croom as OL coach. Can we make that happen?

I thought the exact same thought bout 10-15 minutes ago but was away from my computer.

[BulldogDX55]

I would be all for firing Hev & hiring Croom as OL coach. Can we make that happen?

That'd be worth it just for the message board response.

[Really Clark?]

There are some serious flaws in your methodology. For starters, you crediting Croom with the 09 class seriously swings the argument in his favor. 5 out of the 6 guys you have under his talley were from that 09 class alone that Mulen eventually signed. Secondly, this is a list of only current NFL players. You are leaving out a lot of guys from both categories that made it but are no longer there (Sherrod, Dixon, JRob, Ballard, Josh Boyd?, Denico Autry? Jamar Chaney, probably several others). Those guys still count. Also, I don't see Chris White listed and I'm pretty sure he is still in the league. But if not, add him to the list above. Long story short, you need to reevaluate your selection criteria.

Truth be told, I think Croom had started to figure the recruiting thing out finally around 2008. Unfortunately it was too little, too late. I think on the whole, Mullen has been a better recruiter / evlauator of talent, but Croom did a way better job on the OL and at RB.

You mentioned Chaney and I can't really give Croom much credit for him. Ritch sent him to us simply because we could get him qualified and they couldn't.

[dawgday166]

Ok. I know Mullen signed the 09 class but it was pretty sewed up at the time. Slay was an original 09 signee and went Juco. I guess my point could be (although it wasn't originally): The 10 season was all Croom's recruits. Maybe we should have given Croom more time based on the arguments for Mullen *****

In Croom's defense a little and please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will) ... Didn't the gun incident involving starting players that got kicked off the team happen just before the 08 season started?

[Really Clark?]

Ok. I know Mullen signed the 09 class but it was pretty sewed up at the time. Slay was an original 09 signee and went Juco. I guess my point could be (although it wasn't originally): The 10 season was all Croom's recruits. Maybe we should have given Croom more time based on the arguments for Mullen *****

In Croom's defense a little and please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will) ... Didn't the gun incident involving starting players that got kicked off the team happen just before the 08 season started?

But Slay wasn't on Crooms radar at all and not all of those 2009 commitments where committed by Croom. Slay was strictly a Mullen recruit and commitment. Like Perkins, Bumphis, Berry, Chris White, Heavens who was a flip from Auburn, Perkins, all of these guys from 2009 committed to us AFTER Mullen was hired. You are just looking at those signings but are not checking to see WHEN they committed and to which coaching staff. Slay didn't commit or even get recruited by us until Mullen got here.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Ok. I know Mullen signed the 09 class but it was pretty sewed up at the time. Slay was an original 09 signee and went Juco. I guess my point could be (although it wasn't originally): The 10 season was all Croom's recruits. Maybe we should have given Croom more time based on the arguments for Mullen *****

In Croom's defense a little and please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will) ... Didn't the gun incident involving starting players that got kicked off the team happen just before the 08 season started?

Guys like McPhee & Jackson were only committed a couple months longer to Croom than they were to Mullen. Croom had 0 to do with Slay. Probably had no clue who he was that was all Mullen. It's just hard for me to give much credit to Croom for those guys being in the NFL when he didn't even so much have a practice with them. Also Mullen committed & signed 13 of the 27 guys in the 2009 class so it's also incorrect to say the class was pretty sewn up.

[SDDawg]

Trash.

[dawgday166]

Ok. I'll defer to y'alls knowledge. I thought I seemed to recall that there were a lot of recruits (not sure which ones tho) that were committed to Croom going in, cause I sorta was impressed with it a little. Like I said tho, I seem to recall that. Thought I was pretty sure Bumphis was a Croom verbal. I also was pleased that Dan seemed to take all or most of them.

Either way, that 09 class seems to be the best overall class Dan has had. A lot of studs in that class.

[GreenheadDawg]

Would it be more fun to see more state players in the NFL while losing pretty much every game here or winning more here and seeing less in the NFL?

I personally enjoy watching 160lb miniature backs run between the tackles. But that's just me. I'm kidding I agree with you. I think it's funny you defend Mullen like he's your mama and somebody just told a fat joke

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Croom commits

Sam Watts
Cam Lawrence
Tyler Russell
Chris Smith
Johnthan Banks
Fletcher Cox
Nickoe Whitley
Josh Boyd
Deontae Skinner
William Shumpert
Pernell McPhee
Gabe Jackson
Montrell Conner
Heath Hutchins

Mullen Commits

Maurice Langston
Chris White
Sean Brauchle
Leon Berry
Johnathan McKenzie
Chad Bumphis
Dennis Thames
Ladarius Perkins
Billy Hamilton
Ricco Sanders
Mardrecus Hood
Brandon Heavens
Darius Slay

[dawgday166]

Croom commits

Sam Watts
Cam Lawrence
Tyler Russell
Chris Smith
Johnthan Banks
Fletcher Cox
Nickoe Whitley
Josh Boyd
Deontae Skinner
William Shumpert
Pernell McPhee
Gabe Jackson
Montrell Conner
Heath Hutchins

Mullen Commits

Maurice Langston
Chris White
Sean Brauchle
Leon Berry
Johnathan McKenzie
Chad Bumphis
Dennis Thames
Ladarius Perkins
Billy Hamilton
Ricco Sanders
Mardrecus Hood
Brandon Heavens
Darius Slay

Thanks Dan! You didn't do to shabby that year. Can you pick the pace back up again? ******

[BayouDawg]

I would be all for firing Hev & hiring Croom as OL coach. Can we make that happen?

I wouldn't mind hiring the guy that was our OL coach under croom. I can't remember his name but he was solid. I think he was recently at Auburn.

We were always able to have atleast a symblance of a running game under croom even though the opposing team knew there was no threat of a pass being completed. I just want Hev gone, dear Jesus he's aweful

[msstate7]

I personally enjoy watching 160lb miniature backs run between the tackles. But that's just me. I'm kidding I agree with you. I think it's funny you defend Mullen like he's your mama and somebody just told a fat joke

The price I pay to be Mullen's #1 fan**

[Red Sox Dawg]

How many of those Croom recruits make it to the NFL without Dan's development, proper usage, and a team that was actually competitive enough to even watch for scouts to look for talent?

Not understanding the point of the thread.

That's 2 days in a row I agree with something you posted. WOW!

[SheltonChoked]

Mullen Commits


Billy Hamilton



Add Dan's MLB players to the list too, if Croom get credit for developing the 2009 class.****

[Johnson85]

You mentioned Chaney and I can't really give Croom much credit for him. Ritch sent him to us simply because we could get him qualified and they couldn't and Crooms wasn't a threat to him.

FTFY. I'll always remember Chaney making a comment that was something along the lines of "It's nice to have a real coach for once." May have been a tweet, can't remember. Thought it was telling that a hard worker like Chaney was willing to call out the previous coaching staff like that.

[CadaverDawg]

That's 2 days in a row I agree with something you posted. WOW!

Am I usually that bad? Ha

[sorrydog]

Croom was the better recruiter.
Dan is the better developer.
Peeping Croom always makes me laugh, northerner attitude Dan usually makes me cringe.
But Dan will always win more games.
#hailstate!

[Cooterpoot]

Compare the class rankings. Mullen is better.

[dotcomdawg]

End of the day evaluation: Croom SUCKED! Mullen doesn't.


Now I'm not a huge Croom fan. And he certainly couldn't run an offense or recruit a good QB. But I was curious about something so I went and did a little research. Caveat - I give Croom credit for the 2009 class since it was almost entirely full of verbal commitments and Dan honored all of them I believe.

Original Croom recruits currently in NFL:
Banks
Cox
G. Jackson
Love
McPhee
Slay (originally signed in 2009)
Wright

Note: Sherrod was a Croom recruit also. Broke his leg and is no longer in league.

Mullen recruits in NFL:
Johnson
Jones
McKinney
Prescott
Redmond
Smith

Croom 7 in 4 years. Mullen 6 in 6 years.

Croom was starting to recruit pretty well. Wasn't a HC tho IMO. And I will say all of Croom's recruits except Love played their entire career under Dan.

[Really Clark?]

Croom was the better recruiter.
Dan is the better developer.
Peeping Croom always makes me laugh, northerner attitude Dan usually makes me cringe.
But Dan will always win more games.
#hailstate!

How can you justify that statement? His best class Dan got half of the players. And don't forget that was the year that Patterson flipped to UNM. While it didn't mean anything in the end, there were many many losing their collective minds that Croom lost him. And I suspect an exhaustive internet message board search during those days would not find the words "Croom, good, recruiter" strung together in a post as a positive for his abilites.

[smootness]

Slay was not a commit to Croom. He was a Mullen recruit and we got him right before signing day. Like with Perkins. Also, how much credit to you give Mullen for keeping those guys committed and what are the number of total players who have been drafted or spent time on an active roster between the two. Pretty sure Mullen has guys not on that list who got NFL shots. Ballard and JRob would be two did this list a year ago.

Thank you. Neither was McPhee, he committed in January.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Thank you. Neither was McPhee, he committed in January.

McPhee actually committed to Croom in July. He de-committed after Croom was fired. Took OV to Michigan, UGA, & Florida but ended sticking with MSU & signed on New Year's.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Has this board really come to point of comparing croom to Mullen? In a motified AI quote really croom vs Mullen I mean we are talking about croom vs Mullen.

Some of you need some help

[tcdog70]

The main thing holding Dan back is his asshole buddy-HEV. The question should be whose asshole Buddy was worse

mccorvey or Hev.

I think it is a toss up

[BHildreth3]

The real ****ing problem with Croom vs. Mullen is this:

Croom had better offensive linemen. Mullen's best running games had offensive linemen that Hevesy didn't really recruit. That is PATHETIC. Until Hevesy is gone, and we actually sign top offensive linemen, we AREN'T GOING TO WIN MANY SEC FOOTBALL GAMES. PERIOD. I still want Knox gone because he sucks as a recruiter and he doesn't do a good job of inserting RBs into the game, but hey, if we had a better oline, then that doesn't stick out as much. #firehev

**tcdog70 - I posted right when you did - you nailed it as well.***

[smootness]

McPhee actually committed to Croom in July. He de-committed after Croom was fired. Took OV to Michigan, UGA, & Florida but ended sticking with MSU & signed on New Year's.

Ah yes, you're right.

I'll consider that mostly a Croom recruit then, but Mullen should still get some credit there.

[Really Clark?]

The real ****ing problem with Croom vs. Mullen is this:

Croom had better offensive linemen. Mullen's best running games had offensive linemen that Hevesy didn't really recruit. That is PATHETIC. Until Hevesy is gone, and we actually sign top offensive linemen, we AREN'T GOING TO WIN MANY SEC FOOTBALL GAMES. PERIOD. I still want Knox gone because he sucks as a recruiter and he doesn't do a good job of inserting RBs into the game, but hey, if we had a better oline, then that doesn't stick out as much. #firehev

**tcdog70 - I posted right when you did - you nailed it as well.***

That's not true. 2014 is the only year we rushed for over 3,000 yards and was our highest yard per carry year. 2013 was our 3rd highest rushing yard per carry year. I'm sure you are comparing his first couple of years in which 67% of our offense was running plays. 2014 57.8% of our plays were running plays.

[EngDawg]

Mullen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Croom

[I seen it dawg]

Can you imagine how bad Billy Hamilton would have been beaten to shit running between the tackles in the hopes he would break just one?

[Johnson85]

The main thing holding Dan back is his asshole buddy-HEV. The question should be whose asshole Buddy was worse

mccorvey or Hev.

I think it is a toss up
I don't think McCorvey was holding Croom back. If anything, Croom was holding McCorvey back. Don't think McCOrvey was a west coast offense guy.

[Really Clark?]

Can you imagine how bad Billy Hamilton would have been beaten to shit running between the tackles in the hopes he would break just one?

Pretty sure he was recruited as a WR with a possibility of CB. If he ever really played football long. He was planning on play both sports.

[dawgday166]

That's not true. 2014 is the only year we rushed for over 3,000 yards and was our highest yard per carry year. 2013 was our 3rd highest rushing yard per carry year. I'm sure you are comparing his first couple of years in which 67% of our offense was running plays. 2014 57.8% of our plays were running plays.

So the last 2 years what have we done relative to run/pass ratio?

[I seen it dawg]

Pretty sure he was recruited as a WR with a possibility of CB. If he ever really played football long. He was planning on play both sports.

Shiiiitttttt he was gonna be a tailback and the precursor to Holloway. Mullen had to be salivating over it.

[Really Clark?]

So the last 2 years what have we done relative to run/pass ratio?

Last year was 46/54 run to pass, this year so far 54/46 run to pass

[dawgday166]

Last year was 46/54 run to pass, this year so far 54/46 run to pass

Yardages?

[Really Clark?]

Yardages?

2014 5.02 yards per carry 3rd in the league, 2015 3.73 11th in the league, so far this year 4.49 4th in the league. And this is for conference only games. For reference 2010 we were 3.96 yards per carry in conference games 6th in the league. We were 1st in 2009 but with 4.79 ypc avg which is lower than 2014.

[BrunswickDawg]

2014 5.02 yards per carry 3rd in the league, 2015 3.73 11th in the league, so far this year 4.49 4th in the league. And this is for conference only games. For reference 2010 we were 3.96 yards per carry in conference games 6th in the league. We were 1st in 2009 but with 4.79 ypc avg which is lower than 2014.

That 2009 stat is interesting. 2008 we rushed for 1,227 total yards at 3.07 ypc. And a unreal 636 yards at 2.53 ypc in SEC games. All ranked as 11th in the league. With virtually the same line and Boobie.

[dawgday166]

Thanks.

[Homedawg]

That's not true. 2014 is the only year we rushed for over 3,000 yards and was our highest yard per carry year. 2013 was our 3rd highest rushing yard per carry year. I'm sure you are comparing his first couple of years in which 67% of our offense was running plays. 2014 57.8% of our plays were running plays.

I hate it when facts ass up a good argument. W that said, hev has been bad recruiting linemen, as a whole. That's pretty obvious to anyone w a pair of eyes. I think he can coach...:recruiting or getting people who want to play for his brashness, um, has been difficult to say the least.

[Really Clark?]

I hate it when facts ass up a good argument. W that said, hev has been bad recruiting linemen, as a whole. That's pretty obvious to anyone w a pair of eyes. I think he can coach...:recruiting or getting people who want to play for his brashness, um, has been difficult to say the least.

I don't disagree with that at all. Although he has hit on a big player for us at times and the ones who do like him, really like him. But the other 90% of the time boy it's a struggle. And they have tried to cover and adjust to soften his negative effect.

[HSVDawg]

I hate it when facts ass up a good argument. W that said, hev has been bad recruiting linemen, as a whole. That's pretty obvious to anyone w a pair of eyes. I think he can coach...:recruiting or getting people who want to play for his brashness, um, has been difficult to say the least.

Definitely true. If you put together a theoretical two deep of the best OL players of the entire 8 year Mullen era, it would look like this:

LT - Sherrod, Clausell
LG - Jackson, Beckwith
C - Day, Clayborn
RG - Saulsberry, T. Smith
RT - Lawrence, Siddoway

Count them up, and that is 5 Croom recruits and 5 Mullen recruits. Mullen has been working with a roster of 100% his own recruits on the OL for about 5 of the 8 years he has been here. For 2 of the 8 years it was probably a 50 / 50 split of Mullen / Croom recruits, then one year (2009) was pretty much exclusively Croom recruits on the OL. That means about 75 - 80% of the OL that have suited up under Mullen were his and Hev's guys. Yet still 50% of the best OL we've had while he's here have been Croom guys. That is absolutely pathetic. Mullen's staff have been great evaluators of talent, and generally better recruiters than Croom, but Croom / Grimes were way better on getting OL that were at least decent. It isn't even close.

[Todd4State]

Here's the bottom line on the two- neither Croom nor Dan are/were stellar recruiters.

[confucius say]

This whole thread is stupid. Who cares if croom did recruit better if he couldn't coach? Would anybody want croom over Mullen? No.

Thats like preferring the sex life of a virgin with a 10 inch penis over that of a guy who has sex every day with a 5 inch penis.