What we can learn from LSU

[Todd4State]

LSU was having success with Les Miles including 10 win seasons but I think most would agree that they were underachieving for the talent that they have.

So, LSU gives Les the benefit of the doubt and they let him come back and see if he can turn it around. He doesn?t and it also appears as if they were going to go on even more of a decline.

Now because they didn?t make the appropriate move in the offseason like they should have they have wasted Fournette?s last year (likely) not to mention the rest of the season. Now they have Ed Orgeron as their head coach.

For all the Frank Beamer?s, THIS is why you don?t give coaches multiple opportunities to turn it around only to fail over and over again.

See the warning signs, be proactive, and make the change.

If we allow Dan to come back there is a good chance we are going to be in the same spot as LSU except worse since we don?t have their talent.

[preachermatt83]

Valid argument

[maroonwhitedawg3ddd]

If Danny boy doesn't win six games with this easy schedule he should be shown the DOOR!!

[Goldendawg]

What do you mean an easy schedule? We lost to USA and had all we wanted from UMass, but we're "young and rebuilding" and I'm sure they didn't have to play any young players. ( Just kidding, unfortunately)

[Dolphus Raymond]

Regretfully, I concur. Win 6 and he gets another year. If not, it is time for him to go. With the NCAA about to crucify Freeze and Ole Miss, we have to be in the best position possible to take advantage.

[SPMT]

LSU has lost two games for a total of 7 points. Morons.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Dans seat just went from luke warm to Satans testicles.

[RougeDawg]

Regretfully, I concur. Win 6 and he gets another year. If not, it is time for him to go. With the NCAA about to crucify Freeze and Ole Miss, we have to be in the best position possible to take advantage.

Winning 6 will buy him one more season but it will not buy him an extension. His increased apathy this season is mainly due to not getting an extension and raise last year, after he tried to get out. Either way you slice it he has to win 8 this year for an extension and reason to stop his pouting and actually care about winning. He thinks he Warwick it to Strick and Keenum this season and get rewarded. Strick is looking to leave and Keenum wanted to fire him this past off season. We need to cut bait as soon as we have someone lined up and explain the reason Mullen was let go.

[DownwardDawg]

LSU has lost two games for a total of 7 points. Morons.

With a team talented enough to win the NC.

[Taog Redloh]

SMH. No, it didn't.

[Really Clark?]

It's not a similar situation yet. Les the last two years has flatlined to their historic avg in wins. Around 8 per year with terrible offenses. Mullen would have to go 5 wins back to back years for it to be similar. It was time for them to change last year after 2 years of that. We haven't had even one yet. And Mullen would have to turn in a 4 win or less season for it to be considered. 2 wins or less it's automatic. 5 wins or more without any scandals and he will probably survive to see if he turns it around. Where LSU screwed up was they decided to make a change and let a win and Jimbo backing out change their minds. You never let one win or one loss determine those descisions.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

SMH. No, it didn't.

I was kidding if that was directed at me

[Coach007]

LSU was having success with Les Miles including 10 win seasons but I think most would agree that they were underachieving for the talent that they have.

So, LSU gives Les the benefit of the doubt and they let him come back and see if he can turn it around. He doesn?t and it also appears as if they were going to go on even more of a decline.

Now because they didn?t make the appropriate move in the offseason like they should have they have wasted Fournette?s last year (likely) not to mention the rest of the season. Now they have Ed Orgeron as their head coach.

For all the Frank Beamer?s, THIS is why you don?t give coaches multiple opportunities to turn it around only to fail over and over again.

See the warning signs, be proactive, and make the change.

If we allow Dan to come back there is a good chance we are going to be in the same spot as LSU except worse since we don?t have their talent.

So many wrongs in this.... LMAO!

1- LSU underachieving VS MSU.

LSU has an AVERAGE recruiting class of about #7 in the country.

2016 3
2015 6
2014 2
2013 6
2012 14
2011 7
2010(*) 10
2009 2
2008 11
2007 4
2006 7
2005 22
2004 2
2003 1
2002 15

MSU:

2016 27
2015 18
2014 35
2013 25
2012 22
2011 34
2010(*) 34
2009 25
2008 44
2007 39
2006 46
2005 33
2004 63
2003 9
2002 17


To even COMPARE the 2 in this way is totally nuts! 100% certifiable! Nuts! We have Overachieved. There is no comparison!

LSU has every right to demand more based on talent of a recruiting class.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

So many wrongs in this.... LMAO!

1- LSU underachieving VS MSU.

LSU has an AVERAGE recruiting class of about #7 in the country.

2016 3
2015 6
2014 2
2013 6
2012 14
2011 7
2010(*) 10
2009 2
2008 11
2007 4
2006 7
2005 22
2004 2
2003 1
2002 15

MSU:

2016 27
2015 18
2014 35
2013 25
2012 22
2011 34
2010(*) 34
2009 25
2008 44
2007 39
2006 46
2005 33
2004 63
2003 9
2002 17


To even COMPARE the 2 in this way is totally nuts! 100% certifiable! Nuts! We have Overachieved. There is no comparison!

LSU has every right to demand more based on talent of a recruiting class.

And here comes the excuse monster. Maybe we can get a deal with an NFL team to be their minor league since we are a developmental program.

[Goldendawg]

Guys a top 25 or 30 class nationally for us is in the bottom 4 or 5 in the entire SEC. Without good coaching and hard work we do not overachieve, especially against the SEC West.

[Coach007]

And here comes the excuse monster. Maybe we can get a deal with an NFL team to be their minor league since we are a developmental program.

Just fact. When a coach takes a team full of 2 stars and 3 stars and is ranked #1, that's over achieving. There is zero way to paint that differently.

And we have done a damn good job identifying. Due to Mullen, Dak is an nfl qb. Due to that, we will bring in qbs. See lsu for talent losing due to not having a qb.

All you are doing is trying to cut your own nose off in spite of your own face.

[SDDawg]

I am legit worried about keeping Keytaon if LSU hires a great coach. LSU and Auburn coaching changes will hurt us even more.

[dawg27]

LSU was having success with Les Miles including 10 win seasons but I think most would agree that they were underachieving for the talent that they have.

So, LSU gives Les the benefit of the doubt and they let him come back and see if he can turn it around. He doesn?t and it also appears as if they were going to go on even more of a decline.

Now because they didn?t make the appropriate move in the offseason like they should have they have wasted Fournette?s last year (likely) not to mention the rest of the season. Now they have Ed Orgeron as their head coach.

For all the Frank Beamer?s, THIS is why you don?t give coaches multiple opportunities to turn it around only to fail over and over again.

See the warning signs, be proactive, and make the change.

If we allow Dan to come back there is a good chance we are going to be in the same spot as LSU except worse since we don?t have their talent.
Good point i mean what have we got to look foward to next year, dan still recuriting the same we going to end up in the thirtys again.Next year we going to hear the same thing we are young,we got to clean up mistakes,this is year 8 we should not rebuilding, i mean this year 8 and we are all saying man i hope we can just win 6,

[PassInterference]

I agree with Todd.

Dan totally mails in the offseason. Hevesy is a bad liability. He runs off his defensive staff almost every year. His recruiting is not sustainable. You can't make a living on turning 2 stars into All Americans.

Props that he turned some 2 stars into great players. But a roster full of 2-3 star depth that really is 2-3 star depth doesn't make a good program.

And I'll say this - I don't want to see a single person talk about Mullen compared any program history from the Larry Trmpleton era. ESPN has tilted the playing field. Its not even. But its even enough for us to compete.

[Really Clark?]

I agree with Todd.

Dan totally mails in the offseason. Hevesy is a bad liability. He runs off his defensive staff almost every year. His recruiting is not sustainable. You can't make a living on turning 2 stars into All Americans.

Props that he turned some 2 stars into great players. But a roster full of 2-3 star depth that really is 2-3 star depth doesn't make a good program.

And I'll say this - I don't want to see a single person talk about Mullen compared any program history from the Larry Trmpleton era. ESPN has tilted the playing field. Its not even. But its even enough for us to compete.

That's very shortsighted and I will talk about the past all day because it is extremely relevant. You have to study ALL aspects of the past. Not just our program but others as well. Especially traditionally weak Power 5 teams who have been able to turn their programs around. That is what we want. Absurd to not find the relevance to help us push forward to a higher level. To levels we have never seen. We got more money and have possibly shortened the number of years it takes to build a program. Great. If we are at $90 MIL for this year (2014-2015 we were at $75MIL). We are still not even in the Top 30 in the country and in the bottom third of the conference. We play in Bel Air of college football and are even in the Top 10 of our own conference.

[Thick]

Dans seat just went from luke warm to Satans testicles.

Satan's testicles.....that's as hot as it gets. Bravo ole boy!

[Thick]

LSU was having success with Les Miles including 10 win seasons but I think most would agree that they were underachieving for the talent that they have.

So, LSU gives Les the benefit of the doubt and they let him come back and see if he can turn it around. He doesn?t and it also appears as if they were going to go on even more of a decline.

Now because they didn?t make the appropriate move in the offseason like they should have they have wasted Fournette?s last year (likely) not to mention the rest of the season. Now they have Ed Orgeron as their head coach.

For all the Frank Beamer?s, THIS is why you don?t give coaches multiple opportunities to turn it around only to fail over and over again.

See the warning signs, be proactive, and make the change.

If we allow Dan to come back there is a good chance we are going to be in the same spot as LSU except worse since we don?t have their talent.

Really good post for a baseball guy....hahaha!

[Todd4State]

So many wrongs in this.... LMAO!

1- LSU underachieving VS MSU.

LSU has an AVERAGE recruiting class of about #7 in the country.

2016 3
2015 6
2014 2
2013 6
2012 14
2011 7
2010(*) 10
2009 2
2008 11
2007 4
2006 7
2005 22
2004 2
2003 1
2002 15

MSU:

2016 27
2015 18
2014 35
2013 25
2012 22
2011 34
2010(*) 34
2009 25
2008 44
2007 39
2006 46
2005 33
2004 63
2003 9
2002 17


To even COMPARE the 2 in this way is totally nuts! 100% certifiable! Nuts! We have Overachieved. There is no comparison!

LSU has every right to demand more based on talent of a recruiting class.

I?m only comparing the timing of replacing the coaches. Not the ceilings.

A little bit out of both sides of your mouth considering your proclamation that we will compete for the SEC next year. But we can?t do any better than what we are doing now. Which is it?

[Todd4State]

It's not a similar situation yet. Les the last two years has flatlined to their historic avg in wins. Around 8 per year with terrible offenses. Mullen would have to go 5 wins back to back years for it to be similar. It was time for them to change last year after 2 years of that. We haven't had even one yet. And Mullen would have to turn in a 4 win or less season for it to be considered. 2 wins or less it's automatic. 5 wins or more without any scandals and he will probably survive to see if he turns it around. Where LSU screwed up was they decided to make a change and let a win and Jimbo backing out change their minds. You never let one win or one loss determine those descisions.

Question- what range of years are you using to define your numbers?

[Todd4State]

Really good post for a baseball guy....hahaha!

Thanks Dwight Clark!

[Really Clark?]

Question- what range of years are you using to define your numbers?

Using the winning percentage since joining the SEC as that is also close to what's considered the modern age of football.

[Maroonthirteen]

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...including the President and AD at LSU knows if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the historical percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.

[Taog Redloh]

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...and I mean nobody, including the President and AD at LSU know if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the history percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.

Don't forget Georgia and Mark Richt (this is no way is an indictment of Smart, he may end up fine, but Richt didn't suffer a 31 point beatdown until his 8th year).

[Maroonthirteen]

Don't forget Georgia and Mark Richt.

Boy, UGA looked much improved Saturday. ****

[Liverpooldawg]

I agree with Todd.

Dan totally mails in the offseason. Hevesy is a bad liability. He runs off his defensive staff almost every year. His recruiting is not sustainable. You can't make a living on turning 2 stars into All Americans.

Props that he turned some 2 stars into great players. But a roster full of 2-3 star depth that really is 2-3 star depth doesn't make a good program.

And I'll say this - I don't want to see a single person talk about Mullen compared any program history from the Larry Trmpleton era. ESPN has tilted the playing field. Its not even. But its even enough for us to compete.

Money wise in the SEC, relatively speaking which is what actually matters, we are in about the same spot we were under Templeton.

[Liverpooldawg]

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...including the President and AD at LSU knows if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the historical percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.

They may do well, but the odds do not favor it. Time will tell.

[Really Clark?]

Boy, UGA looked much improved Saturday. ****

They haven't looked good so far but first years don't always tell the whole story.

[BrunswickDawg]

Don't forget Georgia and Mark Richt (this is no way is an indictment of Smart, he may end up fine, but Richt didn't suffer a 31 point beatdown until his 8th year).
I already asked my UGA friends if Smart was Ray Goff 2.0. They weren't too happy with me. But, when you fire/push out a legend (Dooley/Richt), and hire a former player who was a longtime #2 (Goff/Smart), and your team goes in the tank 3-4 games in (1989/2016) then the comparison looks pretty dead on.

[Maroonthirteen]

Ha! I forgot about Goff. What was the saying... "if you can't beat the poultry go back to Moultrie."

[Coach007]

I agree with Todd.

Dan totally mails in the offseason. Hevesy is a bad liability. He runs off his defensive staff almost every year. His recruiting is not sustainable. You can't make a living on turning 2 stars into All Americans.

Props that he turned some 2 stars into great players. But a roster full of 2-3 star depth that really is 2-3 star depth doesn't make a good program.

And I'll say this - I don't want to see a single person talk about Mullen compared any program history from the Larry Trmpleton era. ESPN has tilted the playing field. Its not even. But its even enough for us to compete.

LMAO! Every teenager that is a QB is watching the HOTTEST QB in the USA.... Dak! You have lost your mind if you think we should even consider getting rid of Mullen. No team but Bama has been able to compete without a QB. Again, see LSU with those top classes.


Dan doesn't "Mail it in" during the off season. We have gone through a probation period. It cost a great recruit over a year because of a booster. We have put people in the NFL early. Bottom line is recruiting has picked up under Mullen. an average of about 10 spots higher.

[Coach007]

I?m only comparing the timing of replacing the coaches. Not the ceilings.

A little bit out of both sides of your mouth considering your proclamation that we will compete for the SEC next year. But we can?t do any better than what we are doing now. Which is it?

no no. You used the term underachieving to make a point with Mullen.

[Todd4State]

Using the winning percentage since joining the SEC as that is also close to what's considered the modern age of football.

So, 1932 on? To me that's an awfully wide range. I would go with 1980 at the earliest and for us I think 1991 would be a more accurate representation of our average.

[lamont]

So, 1932 on? To me that's an awfully wide range. I would go with 1980 at the earliest and for us I think 1991 would be a more accurate representation of our average.

modern football started in about 1972. Southern teams really started signing Blacks at that point

[Todd4State]

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...including the President and AD at LSU knows if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the historical percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.

Here's what makes us different:

1. We haven't really had a Bear Bryant/Vince Dooley/Legendary type coach. One of our best coaches of all time has a .500 record. One of the others no one remembers except for Liverpool. It is easier to exceed what Dan has done here vs. say what Fulmer/Spurrier did at their schools. That's attractive to a lot of coaches because even though we don't have the history, we have the money and facilities and a lot of coaches want to be "the guy" for a program. We're probably the easiest place to do that currently.

2. Those schools often times held on to their coaches for too long because that coach had won a NC and it got their program in a hole and coaches knew that they had to wait a few years for a "bridge" coach to come in and restore the foundation. After Zook Florida hired Meyer. After Meyer Florida had Muschamp but then replaced him with McIlwain. Tennessee had Kiffen for a year and then Dooley but now they have Butch Jones and appear to be in good shape. People keep brining up Cutcliffe- but after Orgeron Nutt had a couple of good years and Freeze has had some good years. I'm not sold on Smart as a coach- but I think that if he fails that job will be pretty attractive in a few years.

3. I'm pretty sure if Saban had not gone to the NFL he would have won at pretty much the same rate at LSU and might have/probably would have elevated LSU past Alabama.

4. With LSU's talent, the fact that they are in a state with a ton of talent with no competition for the best of the players and are a stone's throw away from Houston they should be able to get someone good. I'm dumbfounded as to how they ended up with Mike Archer, Curly Hallman, and Gerry DiNardo to be honest. They were pretty much a 10 win team with a coach that couldn't manage the clock and could never really develop a QB. Imagine what they will be with someone that knows what the hell they are doing.

5. Our fans keep bringing up Cutcliffe but Cut never lost to South Alabama and he didn't mess up Eli's senior year. We also have allowed Dan to keep the assistants that he wanted but I imagine that time is going to be up on that ultimatum come December but we'll see.

[Todd4State]

We haven't learned anything yet. Nobody...including the President and AD at LSU knows if this was a good move.

They may hire the next Nick Saban but they did have Nick Saban. Saban didn't win more than Miles.

Miles winning percentage exceeded the historical percentage of the university. Remove Saban's years....Miles far exceeded their historical average.

What we do know.....

Bama ran off Stallings. Tennessee ran off Fulmer. OM ran off Cutcliff. All three went through bad years following those firings. Florida followed up Spurrier with Zook.

We shall see if this works out for LSU.

Here's what makes us different:

1. We haven't really had a Bear Bryant/Vince Dooley/Legendary type coach. One of our best coaches of all time has a .500 record. One of the others no one remembers except for Liverpool. It is easier to exceed what Dan has done here vs. say what Fulmer/Spurrier did at their schools. That's attractive to a lot of coaches because even though we don't have the history, we have the money and facilities and a lot of coaches want to be "the guy" for a program. We're probably the easiest place to do that currently.

2. Those schools often times held on to their coaches for too long because that coach had won a NC and it got their program in a hole and coaches knew that they had to wait a few years for a "bridge" coach to come in and restore the foundation. After Zook Florida hired Meyer. After Meyer Florida had Muschamp but then replaced him with McIlwain. Tennessee had Kiffen for a year and then Dooley but now they have Butch Jones and appear to be in good shape. People keep brining up Cutcliffe- but after Orgeron Nutt had a couple of good years and Freeze has had some good years. I'm not sold on Smart as a coach- but I think that if he fails that job will be pretty attractive in a few years.

3. I'm pretty sure if Saban had not gone to the NFL he would have won at pretty much the same rate at LSU and might have/probably would have elevated LSU past Alabama.

4. With LSU's talent, the fact that they are in a state with a ton of talent with no competition for the best of the players and are a stone's throw away from Houston they should be able to get someone good. I'm dumbfounded as to how they ended up with Mike Archer, Curly Hallman, and Gerry DiNardo to be honest. They were pretty much a 10 win team with a coach that couldn't manage the clock and could never really develop a QB. Imagine what they will be with someone that knows what the hell they are doing.

5. Our fans keep bringing up Cutcliffe but Cut never lost to South Alabama and he didn't mess up Eli's senior year. We also have allowed Dan to keep the assistants that he wanted but I imagine that time is going to be up on that ultimatum come December but we'll see.

[Really Clark?]

So, 1932 on? To me that's an awfully wide range. I would go with 1980 at the earliest and for us I think 1991 would be a more accurate representation of our average.

Your history is your history. A selective narrow range that just includes the bulk of your best or worse years, is slanting the stat horribly. You can't be arbitrary in the stat to fit an outcome. Especially when doing a comparison.

But to satisfy your curiosity you do understand that doing our history just from 1991 until 2008 the percentage is lower than our overall history, .455. Mullen is at .606 today. That is a huge range above our norm prior to his arrival just from 1991 to today.

[Todd4State]

no no. You used the term underachieving to make a point with Mullen.

Alright, then pull up South Alabama and UMass’s classes for the past 20 years and tell me if we are underachieving based on that or not?
Maybe then you will see my point, but I doubt it.

[Really Clark?]

modern football started in about 1972. Southern teams really started signing Blacks at that point

Agree with that but historians consider 1932-35 as the start of the modern era of football. Which is when around the time of the start of the SEC. That's why most consider that as your modern history.

[Todd4State]

Your history is your history. A selective narrow range that just includes the bulk of your best or worse years, is slanting the stat horribly. You can't be arbitrary in the stat to fit an outcome. Especially when doing a comparison.

But to satisfy your curiosity you do understand that doing our history just from 1991 until 2008 the percentage is lower than our overall history, .455. Mullen is at .606 today. That is a huge range above our norm prior to his arrival just from 1991 to today.

No, I still stand by it being more accurate because sometimes too big of a sample size can be just as bad as too small of a sample size.

My reasoning in this instance is because things have changed so much for us over the years and the game has changed so much in that time.

[Really Clark?]

3. I'm pretty sure if Saban had not gone to the NFL he would have won at pretty much the same rate at LSU and might have/probably would have elevated LSU past Alabama.

No way to know that for sure. His 5 years there tells us he won at about .100 higher than their historic average. His last year he was 9-3. I think he would have won another title at LSU but I don't think he matches his Bama record. That has been the perfect fit and perfect storm.

[Really Clark?]

No, I still stand by it being more accurate because sometimes too big of a sample size can be just as bad as too small of a sample size.

My reasoning in this instance is because things have changed so much for us over the years and the game has changed so much in that time.

But you choose two weird arbitrary time periods that didn't match which includes a fairly successful run for JWS and some of LSU's worse runs in their history leaving off McClendon's years altogether. And in actuality using our entire history since joining the SEC would be a higher winning percentage than just an arbitrary 1991 til today time that has no rhyme or reason. I guess you thought it would be a better number to make your case but it is really a weaker number. There has to be a significant historic reference to do a comparison. Those two dates you used have no historic reasoning behind them.

[Coach007]

Alright, then pull up South Alabama and UMass’s classes for the past 20 years and tell me if we are underachieving based on that or not?
Maybe then you will see my point, but I doubt it.

Considering we beat Umass, why are we talking about them? As to USA, get over it. We lost our first game in a new era without Dak, Bear, Brown, Brown, Redmond, Jones, etc etc... We are 1-1 in the SEC and improving. The future is bright.

[Todd4State]

But you choose two weird arbitrary time periods that didn't match which includes a fairly successful run for JWS and some of LSU's worse runs in their history leaving off McClendon's years altogether. And in actuality using our entire history since joining the SEC would be a higher winning percentage than just an arbitrary 1991 til today time that has no rhyme or reason. I guess you thought it would be a better number to make your case but it is really a weaker number. There has to be a significant historic reference to do a comparison. Those two dates you used have no historic reasoning behind them.

1991 is significant for us because that's when Jackie became our coach and at that point things began to change for us on a local and national level.

[Todd4State]

Considering we beat Umass, why are we talking about them? As to USA, get over it. We lost our first game in a new era without Dak, Bear, Brown, Brown, Redmond, Jones, etc etc... We are 1-1 in the SEC and improving. The future is bright.

Again losing to South Alabama is unacceptable and never has been acceptable at any point in time in our schools history. It is a black eye on this season and forever more will be. Especially if we end up going 5-7 and that loss costs us the bowl streak we are currently on. Even the Tech and 10 team managed to beat Louisiana Tech.

We played South Carolina well for one half and then we were outscored the second half by South Carolina 14-3. That win is getting worse by the week seeing as how KENTUCKY held them to fewer points than we did and the fact that they barely beat Vanderbilt. I guess I should be happy that we might be top 10 in the SEC. Stress on the word might.

LSU dominated us for four quarters and the only reason we got back into the game and made it close was because we took advantage of their prevent defense, recovered an onside kick and got some momentum. When the rubber met the road, LSU turned up the pressure on defense and got us three and out easily.

Why are we talking about UMass? They are the worst team in division I or at the very least in the discussion. They run an archaic old school offense and have very little talent, size, speed, you name it and yet we allowed the most points to them on the season and were in a dog fight until Graham was able to get a pick six to give us some separation. They made our offensive line look silly in the first half as well. What's going to happen when we play Texas A&M? Hell, Kentucky?

That's what's scary right now- we haven't even really played anyone that good. And we haven't looked good against any of them aside from one half against South Carolina and maybe the frantic end of the LSU game against their prevent defense.

Now- I will say this. I do think we have some talent. I agree with you on that even though I sure won't predict SEC contention from it. But watching our team play and seeing how the act off the field doing stuff like getting into twitter fights with former players who are currently in the NFL who criticize them I think we definitely need some new blood to kick their ass into gear to get them to tap into their potential. And I think we need someone that is willing to use our players better to get the most out of them instead of holding ongoing grudges against them because they broke a team rule in the offseason like Dear. And yes, I know Dear played Saturday but normally that wouldn't have happened if we were 2-1 instead of 1-2 going into UMass with people questioning the hell out of Dan about it.

That's what I'm talking about with underachieving.

[Really Clark?]

1991 is significant for us because that's when Jackie became our coach and at that point things began to change for us on a local and national level.

But that is not a point of time that you would you use for a historic significance accross the board for schools. That has no meaning for any other school, which you originally questioned the time frame when we are discussing LSU historic average as well. What does JWS arriving here have to do with anything? No historic significance in looking at a schools historic win percentage across the college football land scape.

[dawgs]

Just fact. When a coach takes a team full of 2 stars and 3 stars and is ranked #1, that's over achieving. There is zero way to paint that differently.

And we have done a damn good job identifying. Due to Mullen, Dak is an nfl qb. Due to that, we will bring in qbs. See lsu for talent losing due to not having a qb.

All you are doing is trying to cut your own nose off in spite of your own face.

Part of a college coach's responsibility is to recruit. Recruit better and there is less reliance on finding diamonds in the rough, developing players (which generally when you are recruiting the guys we are is much more of a development curve than higher rated classes, which means a lot more potential for development to breakdown), and having to outcoach/outsmart your opposing coach. A talent problem in year 8 is the HC's problem, even if he's overachieving relative the talent. Go out and find better talent and coach them up the same way you coach up the lesser talent.

[Dawgtini]

So many wrongs in this.... LMAO!

1- LSU underachieving VS MSU.

LSU has an AVERAGE recruiting class of about #7 in the country.

2016 3
2015 6
2014 2
2013 6
2012 14
2011 7
2010(*) 10
2009 2
2008 11
2007 4
2006 7
2005 22
2004 2
2003 1
2002 15

MSU:

2016 27
2015 18
2014 35
2013 25
2012 22
2011 34
2010(*) 34
2009 25
2008 44
2007 39
2006 46
2005 33
2004 63
2003 9
2002 17


To even COMPARE the 2 in this way is totally nuts! 100% certifiable! Nuts! We have Overachieved. There is no comparison!

LSU has every right to demand more based on talent of a recruiting class.

Sorry, logical thought has been apparently banished from this board. Please try again later....or try another board.

[Dawgfan77]

Considering we beat Umass, why are we talking about them? As to USA, get over it. We lost our first game in a new era without Dak, Bear, Brown, Brown, Redmond, Jones, etc etc... We are 1-1 in the SEC and improving. The future is bright.
While I appreciate your optimism you need to take off the maroon glasses. Yes we lost some playmakers but whose fault is it we don't have decent replacements. One Daniel Mullen. The future is not bright and I don't know how you think that. In year 8 our OL is shit, we continue to run a 150 RB up the middle with no real back up. We lose Ross, three OL shump, Holloway and could lose Gray. That's about 70% of our offense. You have no argument cause we are not playing "young" guys. And you don't lose to USA in year 8!!!

[smootness]

So, 1932 on? To me that's an awfully wide range. I would go with 1980 at the earliest and for us I think 1991 would be a more accurate representation of our average.

Ok, let's use 1991 as the starting point. And let's not include Mullen's tenure because that's who we're evaluating.

You've just jumped our average # of wins all the way up to 5.33. And that's with a few 12-game seasons added as well.

[smootness]

Alright, then pull up South Alabama and UMass’s classes for the past 20 years and tell me if we are underachieving based on that or not?
Maybe then you will see my point, but I doubt it.

So fire every coach as soon as he loses to a team he shouldn't?

[Liverpooldawg]

Your history is your history. A selective narrow range that just includes the bulk of your best or worse years, is slanting the stat horribly. You can't be arbitrary in the stat to fit an outcome. Especially when doing a comparison.

But to satisfy your curiosity you do understand that doing our history just from 1991 until 2008 the percentage is lower than our overall history, .455. Mullen is at .606 today. That is a huge range above our norm prior to his arrival just from 1991 to today.
THIS. When you force out a guy like that it almost never turns out well, no matter who you are. if you force him out without giving him a chance to right the ship, you get a Rick Ray, or worse.

[WSOPdawg]

I am legit worried about keeping Keytaon if LSU hires a great coach. LSU and Auburn coaching changes will hurt us even more.

SDDawg, that's why Dan having developed two starting NFL QBs (Alex Smith & Dak) plus having a hand in developing Cam is appealing to QB recruits. There's only 30 other starting QB slots in the League and Dan has arguably more success in filling these slots than any other coach. For QBs wanting the best shot at successfully starting in the NFL, hopefully MSU will become the destination of choice.

[Johnson85]

LSU was having success with Les Miles including 10 win seasons but I think most would agree that they were underachieving for the talent that they have.

So, LSU gives Les the benefit of the doubt and they let him come back and see if he can turn it around. He doesn?t and it also appears as if they were going to go on even more of a decline.

Now because they didn?t make the appropriate move in the offseason like they should have they have wasted Fournette?s last year (likely) not to mention the rest of the season. Now they have Ed Orgeron as their head coach.

For all the Frank Beamer?s, THIS is why you don?t give coaches multiple opportunities to turn it around only to fail over and over again.

See the warning signs, be proactive, and make the change.

If we allow Dan to come back there is a good chance we are going to be in the same spot as LSU except worse since we don?t have their talent.

What we can learn from LSU is that when a governor gets involved and makes threats to keep a coach from being fired, he may not be able to make it stick for an entire season. It was always likely that Miles was going to be fired after this year. I'm guessing the pulled the trigger now to make sure he didn't get the chance to be saved again. Firing Miles right now doesn't cost them any more money than keeping him until the end of the season does, unless they are bumping up Orgeron's pay to be interim head coach. If they wait until the end of the season, he might end up with a so-so record and people might start looking at the money that could be saved by letting him coach into 2017.

[drunkernhelldawg]

What we can learn from LSU is that when a governor gets involved and makes threats to keep a coach from being fired, he may not be able to make it stick for an entire season. It was always likely that Miles was going to be fired after this year. I'm guessing the pulled the trigger now to make sure he didn't get the chance to be saved again. Firing Miles right now doesn't cost them any more money than keeping him until the end of the season does, unless they are bumping up Orgeron's pay to be interim head coach. If they wait until the end of the season, he might end up with a so-so record and people might start looking at the money that could be saved by letting him coach into 2017.

You talking about Edwards or Jindal? Both of them had Miles bromances. Mainly curious but wouldn't mind seeing the detail on what you're referencing.

[Coach007]

Part of a college coach's responsibility is to recruit. Recruit better and there is less reliance on finding diamonds in the rough, developing players (which generally when you are recruiting the guys we are is much more of a development curve than higher rated classes, which means a lot more potential for development to breakdown), and having to outcoach/outsmart your opposing coach. A talent problem in year 8 is the HC's problem, even if he's overachieving relative the talent. Go out and find better talent and coach them up the same way you coach up the lesser talent.

And all teams, save Saban at the TOP FOOTBALL COLLEGE in the nation, has drop offs even with great Talent when they suffer this many loses. Our recruiting has improved a lot under Mullen, and will continue to. For point of reference, FSU and their young QB situation.

[GTHOM]

Considering we beat Umass, why are we talking about them? As to USA, get over it. We lost our first game in a new era without Dak, Bear, Brown, Brown, Redmond, Jones, etc etc... We are 1-1 in the SEC and improving. The future is bright.

There is no possible way on earth that you mean what you say on this board

[Coach007]

While I appreciate your optimism you need to take off the maroon glasses. Yes we lost some playmakers but whose fault is it we don't have decent replacements. One Daniel Mullen. The future is not bright and I don't know how you think that. In year 8 our OL is shit, we continue to run a 150 RB up the middle with no real back up. We lose Ross, three OL shump, Holloway and could lose Gray. That's about 70% of our offense. You have no argument cause we are not playing "young" guys. And you don't lose to USA in year 8!!!

It is what it is. Our main issue is the slight timing between Fitz and receivers that are use to Dak. That is taking care of it self due to reps...

As to the crap OL.. maybe some truth would help. Last year that OL help MSU to a whopping 100th (and TIED at 100th) in the nation in rushing. What are we now? Tied at 33! My point made. It's not the OL's fault that the timing is a fraction off in passing. Those dropped passes would mean sustained drives.

People stated this in 2013... You want to know WHY we will be better?

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?48495-Why-we-WILL-contend-in-the-next-2-years-Offense


There it is.

[Coach007]

There is no possible way on earth that you mean what you say on this board

I do. Some things are just what they are. There is no "gotcha" moment. There is no plot. There is no lack of effort... just simple truth.

Just like in the run game. Last year tied for 100th. This year 33... yet the OL SUCKS!

Fitz setting a record... but FITZ SUCKS

Fitz completing 60% of his passes and having alot of the in-completions dropped. and the OL sucks and Fitz sucks and Dan Sucks and Fans Suck! Madonna still sucks with false teeth!

What it has become is laughable. We lost all of our playmakers last year on both sides of the ball.

[drunkernhelldawg]

I do. Some things are just what they are. There is no "gotcha" moment. There is no plot. There is no lack of effort... just simple truth.

Just like in the run game. Last year tied for 100th. This year 33... yet the OL SUCKS!

Fitz setting a record... but FITZ SUCKS

Fitz completing 60% of his passes and having alot of the in-completions dropped. and the OL sucks and Fitz sucks and Dan Sucks and Fans Suck! Madonna still sucks with false teeth!

What it has become is laughable. We lost all of our playmakers last year on both sides of the ball.

I'm with you. People act like football is played on a checker board. The bottom line is that men gotta perform or no cigar. If it were a simple game, we wouldn't be so interested in it.

[BrunswickDawg]

It is what it is. Our main issue is the slight timing between Fitz and receivers that are use to Dak. That is taking care of it self due to reps...

As to the crap OL.. maybe some truth would help. Last year that OL help MSU to a whopping 100th (and TIED at 100th) in the nation in rushing. What are we now? Tied at 33! My point made. It's not the OL's fault that the timing is a fraction off in passing. Those dropped passes would mean sustained drives.

People stated this in 2013... You want to know WHY we will be better?

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?48495-Why-we-WILL-contend-in-the-next-2-years-Offense


There it is.

I think the perception was that in spite of the losses, our schedule would allow us to learn on the fly without much drop off early in the season with results similar to 2012. The reality is that the losses, and lack of leadership, are putting us in a season more like 2013, where we are having to really struggle to find our way. I really think if the team takes advantage of the off week we can recover from this start and get bowl eligible with a strong run in October. November will still be the bear that it always is. As many predicted early on, the Auburn game will be the critical make or break game of the season.

[Coach007]

drunkernhelldawg... Agreed. Nobody likes losing and I am happy we are not ok with it. But let's stick to the facts, not make excuses. Just facts.

BrunswickDawg ... I think alot of people expected or hoped there would be no drop off. So far there hasnt been. they just dont see it.

[tireddawg]

I do. Some things are just what they are. There is no "gotcha" moment. There is no plot. There is no lack of effort... just simple truth.

Just like in the run game. Last year tied for 100th. This year 33... yet the OL SUCKS!

Fitz setting a record... but FITZ SUCKS

Fitz completing 60% of his passes and having alot of the in-completions dropped. and the OL sucks and Fitz sucks and Dan Sucks and Fans Suck! Madonna still sucks with false teeth!

What it has become is laughable. We lost all of our playmakers last year on both sides of the ball.

Why are you still here pumping your moronic sunshine? Nobody's buying. You've got to be the most unrealistic person I've encountered on a message board.