Mississippi Recruiting - a look back at recent "elite" recruits

[Irondawg]

I keep seeing on this board and hearing Bo complain about why we're not playing all these 4 stars we have, etc. For example the Peters/Williams/Gibson argument.

I don't think there is any argument that the more 4/5 stars you get the better your chance of success. You're getting the best athletes, but what these recruiting services can really measure is athletic ability. In HS you can most often get away with just pure talent. That's often not the case in college where work ethic and technique become a much bigger part of the formula for success.

So just to see what kind of true talent our state is producing I went back to 2010 and looked at all the composite 4/5 star players our state has produced to see if we simply could lock down the state what would it mean for us.

In the 2010-2014 recruiting classes we produced 36 kids ranked this high. Ignoring injuries, suspensions, etc. you could only make an argument that only about 11 would start for a number of SEC teams.

A high number were complete duds, some were idiots (Brassell, Quay for example), and a large number were simply role players.

The 2009 class alone was almost better than the entire 5 years following it. Simply put the state insn't developing the kinds of players we need to compete at a high level and it's hard to go into any of the surrounding states and pull in the top talent without doing what OM did. Which means our scouting group has to elite and hit on a much higher number of 3-start guys that prove to be under-rated.

Here's a look back at the "elite" recruits:

2010 Shon Coleman, Damien Robinson, Vince Sanders, Travis Dickson, Carlos Thompson, Kaleb Eulls, Carlton Martin, Matthew Wells

2011 CJ, Brassell, Moncrief, T. Singleton, Dee Arrington, M. Facione, PJ Jones, J. Whitehead, A. Morris

2012 C. Ward, A. Alford, Quay Evans, N. James, J. Liggins, I. Gross

2013 Chris Jones, Tony Conner, Kalio Moore, Shump, R. Buchanan

2014 R. Taylor, CJ Hampton, M. Pack, B. Speeks, D. Voorhies, Smokey, A. Williams, G. Green


Even if we were like LSU and got 90% of the in-state top talent, I don't think it would make a massive difference in our roster right now.

I found this a little depressing.

[BeastMan]

Makes the argument that a 3-star from TX, Ga, or Fla being better. The biggest thing that list has in common is a whole bunch of character issues. Kind of makes you wonder what the hell the deal is in MS preps.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Mississippi top talent would be high 3 stars in Florida, Louisiana or Texas. Every once in a awhile a player like Cam Akers comes along that would be a 4 or better in those states but the rest are not as good as their rating indicates.

[BrunswickDawg]

Makes the argument that a 3-star from TX, Ga, or Fla being better. The biggest thing that list has in common is a whole bunch of character issues. Kind of makes you wonder what the hell the deal is in MS preps.

Also makes the arguement that of the "elite" players from MS, we may be missing on some to OM, but we get much better ROI.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Mississippi top talent would be high 3 stars in Florida, Louisiana or Texas. Every once in a awhile a player like Cam Akers comes along that would be a 4 or better in those states but the rest are not as good as their rating indicates.

You could also argue if you put guys like Moncrief, Brassell, Ward, Evans, Jones, Speaks, & Green in Texas or Florida with their resources & economic opportunities matched with their athletic abilities they would be ranked even higher not lower.

[whatever]

Mississippi top talent would be high 3 stars in Florida, Louisiana or Texas. Every once in a awhile a player like Cam Akers comes along that would be a 4 or better in those states but the rest are not as good as their rating indicates.

I disagree w this premise, I just think you can't take what the recruiting services spit out as a "this is how good these guys are going to be" mentality. For every 4 star bust there's a 2 or 3 star that is a 3 year college starter or guy that makes an NFL roster.

A lot of the time, what they say is the opposite of how it turns out. Look at the OL for example, we always end up with the Seniors, Calhouns, Beckwiths, Gabe Jacksons, Clayborns and Jenkins starting over the likes of the Rankins, Jake Thomas, Damien Robinson, Templeton Hardy; and even going back to Calvin Wilson, Donovan Davis, etc... Has turned out a lot of times where our 2 & 3 stars were underrated and were just better than the high 4 stars, basically just mis-evaluations.

Guys like Dee Arrington, Dennis Thames, Montrell Conner, Robert Elliott, and Quay Evans were simply overrated regardless of where they were from while F Cox (was rated high but looking back on it not nearly high enough), B McKinney, KJ Wright, Gabe jackson, Cam Lawrence, Jon Banks, Vick Ballard, Slay, and Taveze Calhoun were underrated.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

yes exactly! They are a product of their surroundings and competition.

[bulldawg28]

Ms schools tend to have poorer coaching versus other states. Living in Alabama I can tell you as a whole the coaching here is night and day with decent to good programs.

[Irondawg]

I think MSU, OM and USM probably together need to start finding a way to improve the coaching in MS and get those programs to better prepare them for college athletics. I think we just see guys come in so underprepared now or are so used to special treatment they can't handle the expecations of college coaches.

Now I'm a little curious what the flameout rate is in Louisiana and Alabama so i may take a look at that in the coming days.

[parabrave]

Problem is we keep on recycling old Coaches. Heck down here on the Coast we have Justice and now B Hall take over well established programs. Buddy Singleton came out of retirement a few years ago to go back to his original school. I guess all the young coaches go out of State because of pay.

[t45fixer]

Lewis Sims down at Pascagoula would disagree. Hope he gets a shot soon at D1 as a position coach.

[MetEdDawg]

This point is why I still think MSU is the toughest SEC job behind Vandy. There is talent in this state, but not nearly as much and it's not nearly as talented from top to bottom as other states. We aren't near a hot bed city for recruiting and the state just doesn't produce enough talent top to bottom.

This is a reason we don't play a ton of young guys. They aren't ready I don't think. Teams playing young guys do it out of necessity or because those kids are just straight up more talented. Those are few and far between.

Here's an example from Alabama:

Top 10 from Alabama:

2012- TJ Yeldon, Ryan Anderson, Jameis Winston, Reggie Ragland, Chris Casher, Kwon Alexander, Justin Thomas, Tyler Hayes, Tyler Nero, Cassanova McKinzy. (NOTE: Benny Brown #11)

2013- Reuben Foster, OJ Howard, Grant Hill, Darius Paige, ArDerius Stewart, Jason Smith, Dee Liner, Austin Golson, Jonathan Cook, Zach Cunningham


Top 10 for the same years in Mississippi:

2012- Channing Ward, Anthony Alford, Quay Evans, Nick James, Jeremy Liggins, Isaac Gross, AJ Jefferson, Richie Brown, D'Arthur Cowan, Xavier Grindle

2013- Chris Jones, Tony Conner, Kailo Moore, Ashton Shumpert, Ryan Buchanan, Jake Thomas, Deon Mix, Brandon Wells, Gabe Myles, Scott Austin

I mean look at the top end talent difference. It's insane. I mean we get mad at some misses, but dear lord. Look at the MS top 10 in 2012. That group in MS are RS seniors and not one is currently in the NFL. Not one on an NFL roster. But I see 4 from Alabama on an NFL roster right now. The talent difference really is astounding. Some years it's more even but these are the group of seniors on our teams. It's not even comparable.

[PassInterference]

I wonder if some of this is due to poor academics in most of MS's public schools. Some guys don't have the grades or can't cut it in college. And how many studs just dropped out of high school?

[Todd4State]

I wonder if some of this is due to poor academics in most of MS's public schools. Some guys don't have the grades or can't cut it in college. And how many studs just dropped out of high school?

I wonder if the developmental issues have to do with how much time Mississippi high school coaches are allowed to work with their players vs. Alabama. I would be interested to hear a football coach comment on this.

I think one thing that gets glossed over a lot is when players get to start playing public school ball which believe is the spring of their sixth grade year but the private school start around fourth grade and I think that is a big reason why their fundamentals tend to be a little but better.

But with Mississippi talent you can't just totally go by who has the stars by their name. Benardrick McKinney, Johnthan Banks, Tavese Calhoun, Vick Ballard, and etc. That's what is really tricky about Mississippi recruiting I think is a lot of times the best players aren't necessarily the ones that are the highest rated. If you notice a lot of the guys that get the stars by their names are the ones that are from the bigger schools in the state or are identified earlier for whatever reason- usually a recruiting reporter gets wind of a player and it goes from there.

I don't really have anything to base this on but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of our 3 star guys would be rated higher than a three star guy from Florida if they were from Florida themselves.

But because we should get the guys that aren't necessarily rated higher that's why I say it's not realistic for us to be ranked higher than the top 15-20 in recruiting on NSD because the three star guys are going to drop the rating. But when they graduate a top 15 class for us might actually be a top 10 class on the field if we recruit well and develop well. So, it's not what our class is on NSD as much as it is what it will be when they graduate.

Going away from recruiting and focusing on Mississippi to chase these three star guys from Florida and Georgia is how we miss out on Jerry Rice, Brett Favre, Steve McNair, and etc.

[RocketDawg]

I wonder if some of this is due to poor academics in most of MS's public schools. Some guys don't have the grades or can't cut it in college. And how many studs just dropped out of high school?

Well, Alabama has twice the population and about the same level of interest in high school athletics as Mississippi. Georgia has twice the population, and then some, of Alabama. That might have a lot to do with the greater athletic prowess from those states.

[Dawg61]

Idk what you're looking at but our Defense would be disgusting if we got all those names

[LC Dawg]

There are too many high schools in Mississippi. It would be much better academically and athletically to combine a lot of them.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

There are too many high schools in Mississippi. It would be much better academically and athletically to combine a lot of them.

We have to consolidate some of these school districts as well to eliminate these inflated superintendent salaries. For a state so poor in education, we have more doctors of education that don't do shit to make a difference except pad their wallets like politicians. Sure, there are some great ones doing great things, but there are some districts that are sad to see.

[bulldawg28]

I'm born and raised in Mississippi. However, they eat, breathe, and sleep football in Alabama. It's a totally different mindset and commitment to the sport from communities to coaching to player development.

[MetEdDawg]

I'm born and raised in Mississippi. However, they eat, breathe, and sleep football in Alabama. It's a totally different mindset and commitment to the sport from communities to coaching to player development.

The amount of money spent on football staff and salaries here in Alabama would blow your mind and disturb you. My school is one of those schools and it's ridiculous. Heck, most of our varsity football staff doesn't even teach more than one actual class per day.

[parabrave]

The amount of money spent on football staff and salaries here in Alabama would blow your mind and disturb you. My school is one of those schools and it's ridiculous. Heck, most of our varsity football staff doesn't even teach more than one actual class per day.

If you really want to see professional HS sports programs check out Marist HS in Atlanta, Brother Martin or Archbishop Rummel in New Orleans and McGill and St Paul in Mobile.

[Todd4State]

If you really want to see professional HS sports programs check out Marist HS in Atlanta, Brother Martin or Archbishop Rummel in New Orleans and McGill and St Paul in Mobile.

Or John Curtis in NOLA.

[BrunswickDawg]

The amount of money spent on football staff and salaries here in Alabama would blow your mind and disturb you. My school is one of those schools and it's ridiculous. Heck, most of our varsity football staff doesn't even teach more than one actual class per day.

And in Georgia, it is even crazier. Our coach here makes over $110k and has a free truck from a local dealer. Pretty sure most of the coaches get the free car perk too. And this is a 6A school far from Metro Atl where the real money is. When I was in HS in the late 80s/early 90s, our booster club built our coach a house in a nice new subdivision. Free. And he sold it when he left 5 years later. Not a bad perk.

That doesn't even touch on the recruiting that goes on. The top line public schools in GA have booster networks that provide apartments/houses where families can "move" to establish residency, and in some cases jobs. Its like the damn SEC in some areas here.

[Pipedream]

I disagree w this premise, I just think you can't take what the recruiting services spit out as a "this is how good these guys are going to be" mentality. For every 4 star bust there's a 2 or 3 star that is a 3 year college starter or guy that makes an NFL roster.

A lot of the time, what they say is the opposite of how it turns out. Look at the OL for example, we always end up with the Seniors, Calhouns, Beckwiths, Gabe Jacksons, Clayborns and Jenkins starting over the likes of the Rankins, Jake Thomas, Damien Robinson, Templeton Hardy; and even going back to Calvin Wilson, Donovan Davis, etc... Has turned out a lot of times where our 2 & 3 stars were underrated and were just better than the high 4 stars, basically just mis-evaluations.



Guys like Dee Arrington, Dennis Thames, Montrell Conner, Robert Elliott, and Quay Evans were simply overrated regardless of where they were from while F Cox (was rated high but looking back on it not nearly high enough), B McKinney, KJ Wright, Gabe jackson, Cam Lawrence, Jon Banks, Vick Ballard, Slay, and Taveze Calhoun were underrated.

I disagree with your disagreement of this premise.

[parabrave]

And in Georgia, it is even crazier. Our coach here makes over $110k and has a free truck from a local dealer. Pretty sure most of the coaches get the free car perk too. And this is a 6A school far from Metro Atl where the real money is. When I was in HS in the late 80s/early 90s, our booster club built our coach a house in a nice new subdivision. Free. And he sold it when he left 5 years later. Not a bad perk.

That doesn't even touch on the recruiting that goes on. The top line public schools in GA have booster networks that provide apartments/houses where families can "move" to establish residency, and in some cases jobs. Its like the damn SEC in some areas here.

When Mike Justice was coach at Gulfport his QBs were from Biloxi, Long Beach and St Patricks. However the Kid from the private school actually lived in Gulfport.

[bulldawg28]

And in Georgia, it is even crazier. Our coach here makes over $110k and has a free truck from a local dealer. Pretty sure most of the coaches get the free car perk too. And this is a 6A school far from Metro Atl where the real money is. When I was in HS in the late 80s/early 90s, our booster club built our coach a house in a nice new subdivision. Free. And he sold it when he left 5 years later. Not a bad perk.

That doesn't even touch on the recruiting that goes on. The top line public schools in GA have booster networks that provide apartments/houses where families can "move" to establish residency, and in some cases jobs. Its like the damn SEC in some areas here.

It's similar in Alabama. One big difference is the amount of coaches actually leaving high school to coach college. The better schools are run like colleges with all sorts of perks for players.

[BankerDog]

The last 4 or 5 star skill player to be drafted out of MS was Anthony Dixon. Let that sink in

The coaching in MS is way below average. Reasons why Peters, Graham, etc can't catch on to play books. Look at where our starters on defense are from and it'll explain a lot. Not much experience in their coaches at their high schools. Most play very basic defenses.

This is why I would rather take a 3* guy from Louisiana or Alabama over a 3* guy from MS. The way these rankings are now, with most evaluations done without pads on, over hypes guys. It's just the way it is.