Coach

[Todd4State]

34, 57, and arm chair- how does one stop the Ole Miss offense?

I noticed that Vandy had a LOT of success blitzing early and doing things to confuse their o-line. I also noticed that when Vandy went to mainly straight up zone, Ole Miss had a LOT of success- much like the Egg Bowl.

It seems like they run the same plays over and over again-

1. Zone read.

2. Screen to Treadwell.

3. Variety of short passes to their WR's.

4. Rarely a post to Moncrief.

How do you defend it, and why did Vandy play so far off of Treadwell? Why couldn't they stop the zone read?

[mic]

not an answer to ur question but if Bo's first option is covered or not there.. he is done.. or he throws it anyway
On his read option if the ends will just stay at home and squat and play the QB that will stop him from gaining any rushing yards. He doesn't have the speed or quickness to out run or get by good DE's one on one if they don't over pursue....

[MemphisDawg]

I think Vandy went into the game with the mentality that Moncrief wasn't going to beat them. And then when they started going to Treadwell Vandy did not adjust well at all.

I know that didnt really answer your question.

Also I think Freeze has a mindset of "your gonna stop us before we stop running the same play" Which is rare. Most coaches even if it works they go away from it for some reason. Freeze will just run the same play over and over (screen to Treadwell)

[Political Hack]

They force you to match up with them man up. they'll exploit you in a zone coverage. They do it pre-snap every play. Those WR screen passes to Treadwell when he doesn't even have a blocker is a great example. They were trying to force him underneath and to the inside, so CB could stay over the top on him. Well, OM read the OLB and S presnap, and depending on where they were would either throw a screen and let him run it one-one-one, or run the ball if the OLB slid out to help, or went to the TE if the S rotated over.

You have to be able to man up or run one hell of a matchup zone against them. Zone will give a bend, don't break but given Wallace's arm problems I wouldn't run it against them.

I'd force him to throw over the top 40+ yards. I also wouldn't be standing around letting their staff get a good look at the D pre-snap. I'd have 3 to 4 guys roaming around pre-snap every play (like the Ravens often do). Dominating the LOS with your front 4 would also help big time.

[smootness]

34, 57, and arm chair- how does one stop the Ole Miss offense?

I noticed that Vandy had a LOT of success blitzing early and doing things to confuse their o-line. I also noticed that when Vandy went to mainly straight up zone, Ole Miss had a LOT of success- much like the Egg Bowl.

Well, I would say blitz them and put pressure on them, don't play zone.

Seems easy enough; I don't know why coaches go to zone against them, but it is a bad strategy.

[ckDOG]

I also wouldn't be standing around letting their staff get a good look at the D pre-snap. I'd have 3 to 4 guys roaming around pre-snap every play (like the Ravens often do)

This. Don't make it easy on Wallace to visualize the coverages are pre-snap. Disguise it and cause a little confusion so it takes that extra moment to make a good decision.

[msstate7]

This. Don't make it easy on Wallace to visualize the coverages are pre-snap. Disguise it and cause a little confusion so it takes that extra moment to make a good decision.

Exactly. They audible. You audible. I'd give them look that I know they'll audible into what I really want them to run. On the zone read play Bo! If they run that play, they jeopardize losing him. Everytime they run the zone read that's a free shot at their qb. Take it

[Political Hack]

Freeze took their DL out of the game with the WR screens and Vandy didn't double down and adjust so he just continued to take what they gave him. They were scared of getting burnt long so they employed the Chris Wilson scheme.

Had they come up in man press coverage it would've given their DL a fighting chance of causing disruption and making some big plays. Good halftime adjustments by Freeze, and should've been easy to counter... I'm not that impressed with how the Vandy staff reacted to be honest. Franklin may be a messiah, but if he can't make simple in-game adjustments he's going to have a hard time winning consistently in the SEC.

[Coach 57]

The best way to attack their offense is to do what Vandy did up front. It starts there FIRST. Any team that runs the spread ala Relf-fense we used on running plays is reading. So the first thing you do is DRILL INTO YOUR KID'S HEADS ASSIGNMENT FOOTBALL! It was driving me NUTS last night what the DEs & OLBs were doing. Ugh! Anyways. You teach your DEs not to pinch EVER! They MUST trust the ILBS to fill & interior DL to fill. The DEs have GOT to stay at home! UM ran that all night! They also run what is called "mid line" which is an outside zone read play the only difference is that instead of reading the DE, they read the MLB. If he flows (ala UM Vs LSU last yr) the QB keeps and hits the A or B gap. Then all he has to do is make the safety miss. If you can teach your front 7 to play assignment football like this then behind them you MUST mix your coverages between man & zone. Possibly out of the cover 2. Vandy was getting hosed be the same bubble screen because they showed too early & Bo saw it an the CB or OLB that was blitzing basically was releasing to the safety (8 yrs off the ball). If Vandy had showed blitz then dropped back into man they had picks all over the field. They did it once and dropped a sure fire pick 6. But another way to attack this is the invention of the "wide 9" philosophy. But you better make DANG SURE you have the LBS to run this or it won't work. Which is why most just do it from a conventional set.

[Irondawg]

yeah, Vandy's left DE killed them in the second half. The goal should be to punish wallace and let the inside guys handle the RB's up the middle. Just some terrible technique by vandy on the edges in the 2nd half of that game.

[SignalToNoise]

Looked like that same DE 17'd up royally on that last TD that Wallace scored. DE pursued Jeff Scott and no one was left to defend Wallace, who walked into the end zone untouched. If that DE stays at home he at least has a chance to make a tackle.

[Coach34]

They are doing the things we used to do with Ralph- except Wallace can actually complete some passes- and they have legit WR's. This is why so many of us cant wait to see Dakota doing this for us at QB. He can throw the ball better than Ralph could- and we should be able to move the ball very well.

They count to see how many defensive players are in the box- 6 means run- 7 means pass. Vandy played games with them to confuse them- running people into the box late, stemming their LB's to confuse their assignments, etc....

As 57 mentioned- the damn DE kept screwing up and not taking QB. You have to play your assignment vs them- and rely on the rest of the D to their job.

You asked about man vs zone- well Vandy was in man on that last TD run by Scott. When you go man and the RB breaks contain, there is nobody left to make the play- thus big play. But there was no excuse in the DB's not forcing Scott OOB there. Just poor technique. Vandy was also in man on that bullshit pass intereference call Vandy got on Moncrief's post that helped spark one of those TD drives.

Texas and Bammer will bring them back to life- the Auburn game should be interesting. I look for another game just like last night when they play Auburn. Plenty of back-n-forth

[ShotgunDawg]

This. Don't make it easy on Wallace to visualize the coverages are pre-snap. Disguise it and cause a little confusion so it takes that extra moment to make a good decision.

This to me is what the real advantage of the hurry offense that OM uses. Many people think that the hurry up offense's main advantage is making the defense gassed and getting in more plays, BUT I think one of the main advantages is the defenses inability to get completely set long enough to disguise coverages. I realize that we all want to disguise looks against OM, but where is the time to do this? I know OM hurries to the line, and then checks with the coaches on the sideline, but, if your roaming around, trying to disguise a defense, they may snap the ball with you out of position.

This is why we need to go to the hurry up beginning next season. It takes away Saban's ability to disguise looks. Why would you not want to do that?

[Coach34]

This to me is what the real advantage of the hurry offense that OM uses. Many people think that the hurry up offense's main advantage is making the defense gassed and getting in more plays, BUT I think one of the main advantages is the defenses inability to get completely set long enough to disguise coverages. I realize that we all want to disguise looks against OM, but where is the time to do this? I know OM hurries to the line, and then checks with the coaches on the sideline, but, if your roaming around, trying to disguise a defense, they may snap the ball with you out of position.


yes- good post

[Political Hack]

the hurry to line up. they don't hurry to snap the ball very often. it's a chess match and they force you to show your move before they do. It's a BS gimmic and I gaurandamntee you Saban is going to bust their ass with some defensive wizardry.

[ShotgunDawg]

the hurry to line up. they don't hurry to snap the ball very often. it's a chess match and they force you to show your move before they do. It's a BS gimmic and I gaurandamntee you Saban is going to bust their ass with some defensive wizardry.

This completely correct and very smart by OM. I'm just not sure what the answer is because if you don't show your look, they snap it with you out of position, and if you do show your look, they change the play.

I think I would find a way to make them snap it quick. Make your defense look out of position in an effective way.

[fishwater99]

Your DE's have to put pressure on the QB, play man with some good corners on Treadwell and Moncrief and make tackles.
They don't have a power running game.

[War Machine Dawg]

Some really good discussion here. With this particular team, I think you've got to crowd the box on them. Wallace has a complete limp noodle for an arm right now. Control Moncrief, Treadwell, and Logan in the screen/intermediate passing game and force Wallace to go over the top.

You also have to be VERY disciplined with that option, especially on the DL. 92 for Vandy completely effed them on Wallace's late TD when he decided to chase the RB instead of taking his man, Wallace. If he had, it's a TFL instead of a TD. You also gotta contain Scott at RB. He's small but fast as hell. They don't really have a physical run presence, so you don't have to worry about their run game in that aspect.

Another key is to take advantage of the turnover opportunities they give you. Vandy didn't capitalize on any.

[Johnson85]

It seems like they run the same plays over and over again-

2. Screen to Treadwell.

3. Variety of short passes to their WR's.


You have to have somebody on the field that will make adjustments. Um marched down the field at least once with the short passes to Treadwell b/c Vandy. It looked like Vandy had a bad call on D, and UM didn't let them substitute and it seemed like Vandy never adjusted their call the whole time down the field. I know they couldn't have been making the same call on every damn play, but whatever they were doing, all their play calls left basically the same weakness to exploit.

The trouble with the zone read is something you have to address before the game. I don't know what's so hard about playing assignment D, but a lot of teams 17 it up, so however simple it is in theory, it's obviously not simple to execute.

[blacklistedbully]

They are doing the things we used to do with Ralph- except Wallace can actually complete some passes- and they have legit WR's. This is why so many of us cant wait to see Dakota doing this for us at QB. He can throw the ball better than Ralph could- and we should be able to move the ball very well.

They count to see how many defensive players are in the box- 6 means run- 7 means pass. Vandy played games with them to confuse them- running people into the box late, stemming their LB's to confuse their assignments, etc....

As 57 mentioned- the damn DE kept screwing up and not taking QB. You have to play your assignment vs them- and rely on the rest of the D to their job.

You asked about man vs zone- well Vandy was in man on that last TD run by Scott. When you go man and the RB breaks contain, there is nobody left to make the play- thus big play. But there was no excuse in the DB's not forcing Scott OOB there. Just poor technique. Vandy was also in man on that bullshit pass intereference call Vandy got on Moncrief's post that helped spark one of those TD drives.

Texas and Bammer will bring them back to life- the Auburn game should be interesting. I look for another game just like last night when they play Auburn. Plenty of back-n-forth

Coach, wasn't Moncrief guilty of an illegal block in the back on that play? I've looked at it slo-mo, ans it sure looks to my like a Vandy DB is breaking down well with Scott coming between him and the sideline when Moncrief comes up from behind and shoves him backward just as Scott is coming by. DB then falls up field instead of toward Scott as he goes by. I think Moncrief was able to do it somewhat subtly, as it looked to be little more than a hand on the back with a slight shove. But the timing was perfect, given the DB was at that moment beginning his breakdown, so his own momentum helped Moncrief's shove be effective.

Please tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't it clear Moncrief is 100% behind that DB, comes back behind him, puts his left hand on the DB's back, right hand on his right shoulder, then gives the DB a shove backward just as Scott is arriving? Is that not the definition of "illegal block in the back"?

[Delta]

I am no defensive guru, but I think Bo Wallace needs to be hammered on every zone read play. Even if he doesn't keep the ball, getting hammered on every play will make him very reluctant to run it.

[Coach34]

the Moncrief block was questionable- but he can block from the side...I thought it was a good no-call personally- Vandy has got to do a better job there. If they do their job correctly- it doesnt matter

[Political Hack]

This completely correct and very smart by OM. I'm just not sure what the answer is because if you don't show your look, they snap it with you out of position, and if you do show your look, they change the play.

I think I would find a way to make them snap it quick. Make your defense look out of position in an effective way.

it's really not overly difficult. The Ravens do a great job of this. It's gap containment fundamental assignment football with the freedom to roam anywhere you want prior to the snap so long as you can be at your spot once the ball is snapped. Sometimes you'll see a CB show blitz the. drop to cover the slot, or a DT walking outside the DE because they already know they're running a stunt. Or a DE standing up like a MLB on a stunt call. Or a Mike dropping out to the slot on a delay blitz call. The only thing you have to do to pull it off is be confident in your calls and have an aggressive attacking style of defense. If you're running a read and react or a bend don't break D, it's probably not going to work as well because your front seven's assignments arent determined until after the snap.

[Coach 57]

Bama will use a wide 9 to stop aTm & will utilize it against UM and any other team that runs this type of offense. It was created to stop guts like RG3 & zone read plays.

[Percho]

Take away the bubble screen. That play should go for no or lost yards. For these spread teams that play has replaced the run up the middle for 4 or 5 yards and defenses just sit back and let them do that.
When teams were in the power I what you tried to take away was the 4 / 5 yard run yet in the spread they sit back and let the bubble screens do the same thing.

Just my dumb opinion. JMDO

[maroonmania]

I am no defensive guru, but I think Bo Wallace needs to be hammered on every zone read play. Even if he doesn't keep the ball, getting hammered on every play will make him very reluctant to run it.

I still can't figure out why the backside DE consistently chased the RB going the other way leaving Wallace a wide open running lane behind him on the zone read. I would assume his primary job is covering the QB until he 100% knows the RB has the ball. Heck, he's very unlikely to chase a RB headed the other way anyway. Could not believe Vandy's defensive coaches didn't get that corrected in game.

[Westdawg]

i would run a 4-2-5 look at them and make sure the DEs stayed home and keep a steady pressure of blitzes up the middle, while dropping a LB into the Mid Key to take away that crossing route they liked so much. Use hybrids like Wells to shore up the inside receiver and then mix outside coverage with CB/S responsibilities. The school I am coaching at is playing a team in a week that uses the same offense, and let's face it....it is an offense that works, but really works the way it is supposed to when you get a DL out of playing fundamental football. They are going to move the chains some. they will score some. but if you play fundamentally sound, you will create turnovers and you will beat them.

[blacklistedbully]

the Moncrief block was questionable- but he can block from the side...I thought it was a good no-call personally- Vandy has got to do a better job there. If they do their job correctly- it doesnt matter

Now this I'm not understanding. How is that block considered a "block from the side"? Watching the replay, you can see Moncrief running directly backwards to the DB after the DB came off Moncrief to go for Scott. Moncrief runs straight back after him, then puts one hand on the DB's back, the other hand on his right shoulder, then gives him a shove just as the DB is breaking down to make the tackle. If you can look at it again, notice how the DB is poised to use the sideline as he breaks down, but after Moncrief shoves him, he falls to his left, back upfield, just past Scott who by this moment is passing by on the sideline.

Looks to me the DB had perfect position to make the play until Moncrief pushed him from behind. If I'm misunderstanding the rule, please explain how. I'd really like to understand.