What Has to Happen for Athletes to Begin Standing for the National Anthem Again?

[ShotgunDawg]

Sorry if this belongs on the political board.

The Seahawks just announced that the entire team won't be standing for national anthem this Sunday. I get the entire 1st amendment rights thing, &, while I'm not totally sure what they are protesting or who they are protesting against, I do respect the idea that Americans get to stand up for what they believe.

However, because I don't totally understand what is being protested or who is being protested against, I'm additionally not completely clear what has to happen for athletes to begin standing for the national anthem again.

Is this just a fad or, because there is no end game, we will get to the point where no one stands for the national anthem anymore?

If it's the ladder, that seems fairly destructive to the country. I need help understanding this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr3Ew1gW8AgQnUW.jpg:large

[TimberBeast]

Sorry if this belongs on the political board.

The Seahawks just announced that the entire team won't be standing for national anthem this Sunday. I get the entire 1st amendment rights thing, &, while I'm not totally sure what they are protesting or who they are protesting against, I do respect the idea that Americans get to stand up for what they believe.

However, because I don't totally understand what is being protested or who is being protested against, I'm additionally not completely clear what has to happen for athletes to begin standing for the national anthem again.

Is this just a fad or, because there is no end game, we will get to the point where no one stands for the national anthem anymore?

If it's the ladder, that seems fairly destructive to the country. I need help understanding this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr3Ew1gW8AgQnUW.jpg:large

What needs to happen is for people to not attend the game, not watch the game on TV, and stop playing fantasy football. These players need to realize how incredibly lucky they really are, and that there is only country in the world that affords them this ridiculous opportunity.

[shoeless joe]

That's the problem. What are they protesting? Oppression? In what way...police shootings? I would think there are quite a few more things holding down different groups of people but that's just my opinion. Also, I'm fairly certain that what these athletes are calling oppression is not systematic. If anything the system is set up in the opposite direction. This entire situation as a whole...startin with kap's socks...makes the individuals look uneducated and wanting this to be about them. I'm not saying there's not worthy issues to protest but disrespecting the flag and the folks that have given their life to defend it is never the answer. These people are making the flag the issue instead of what they're protesting...but since I'm not real clear on what that is then maybe it is the flag.

[DudyDawg]

Neither I nor they know what they actually want to happen.

[ShotgunDawg]

What needs to happen is for people to not attend the game, not watch the game on TV, and stop playing fantasy football. These players need to realize how incredibly lucky they really are, and that there is only country in the world that affords them this ridiculous opportunity.

That's not going to happen though. Any other ideas?

[ShotgunDawg]

That's the problem. What are they protesting? Oppression? In what way...police shootings? I would think there are quite a few more things holding down different groups of people but that's just my opinion. Also, I'm fairly certain that what these athletes are calling oppression is not systematic. If anything the system is set up in the opposite direction. This entire situation as a whole...startin with kap's socks...makes the individuals look uneducated and wanting this to be about them. I'm not saying there's not worthy issues to protest but disrespecting the flag and the folks that have given their life to defend it is never the answer. These people are making the flag the issue instead of what they're protesting...but since I'm not real clear on what that is then maybe it is the flag.

My thoughts as well.

Again, I'm all for people standing up, protesting, & voicing their concerns. I just can't figure out what is being protested & stood up against here

If I understood it, there's a chance I might actually support it

[vv83]

The NFL needs to start playing more games overseas. They don't realize how bad other countries are laughing at us for this

[TimberBeast]

That's not going to happen though. Any other ideas?

If you know ahead of time that they are going to do that, and you still attend the game or watch it on TV, then you are basically supporting what they are doing. I can't think of a more simple solution actually.

[Hrdawg82]

My thoughts as well.

Again, I'm all for people standing up, protesting, & voicing their concerns. I just can't figure out what is being protested & stood up against here

If I understood it, there's a chance I might actually support it

They are saying they will not stand for the National anthem until violence against African Americans is addressed. Now the fact that a large percentage of violence against African Americans is black on black crimes I do not see an end to this. I stand with the USA Hockey coach who said if any of his players sit for the anthem, they can sit there the remainder of the game. Its too bad that no football coach would make a stand like that. Its one thing to stand for oppression but its another to stand against something as broad as violence against a certain race. Maybe I will sit for the anthem until the justice system changes how men and fathers are treated during divorce proceedings.....

[starkvegasdawg]

Do what the coach did on the US national hockey team. Anyone that doesn't stand doesn't play. And since this the NFL anyone that doesn't play for being suspended for the game doesn't get paid. They start losing checks then they'll be standing and waving a flag during the anthem.

And no, that is not violating their first amendment right to protest and freedom. They still have every right to sit, but the team has every right to say that is not conduct they approve of and take their own action and suspend a player for the game withbout pay. That would be the team's first amendment right being exercised. This shit could be cut out with the quickness if they wanted to.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

The NFL needs to start playing more games overseas. They don't realize how bad other countries are laughing at us for this

Agree with this. Play a game in the Sudan, and then come back and tell me how oppressed you are.

[msstate7]

Delete

[Commercecomet24]

My thoughts as well.

Again, I'm all for people standing up, protesting, & voicing their concerns. I just can't figure out what is being protested & stood up against here

If I understood it, there's a chance I might actually support it

Because they think they're being cool. All celebrities feel like they can tell the rest of us average people how to think or be, you know because they're celebrities and we are not, but most of the time they come out looking foolish and uneducated(evidenced by Kaepernick protesting oppression but then wearing a shirt celebrating Castro who may be the most oppressive leader in history after Hitler). I'm saddened by what i see happening in this world and our country. The general lack of people caring for anyone other than themselves is troubling. They're still a lot of great folks out there who care about others but that number I fear is dwindling. I fear the world my children and grandchildren face.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Hockey is a bad argument....the demographics aren't nearly the same. The "oppression" from police, whether real or fake, has been indoctrinated in poor communities forever and won't ever change.

[msstate7]

I'll give you a worthwhile cause for these players to support... Violence in Chicago. Call out these thug, gang members and publicly shame them. Chicago is out of control.

This story is about a 71-year-old man robbed and shot in his own front yard. The story has the shooting statistics for Chicago this year and it's staggering... Chicago has more shooting this year than NY and LA combined

http://abcnews.go.com/US/caught-camera-elderly-chicago-man-shot-robbed-watering/story?id=41937412

http://abcnews.go.com/US/caught-camera-elderly-chicago-man-shot-robbed-watering/story?id=41937412

[Commercecomet24]

Do what the coach did on the US national hockey team. Anyone that doesn't stand doesn't play. And since this the NFL anyone that doesn't play for being suspended for the game doesn't get paid. They start losing checks then they'll be standing and waving a flag during the anthem.

And no, that is not violating their first amendment right to protest and freedom. They still have every right to sit, but the team has every right to say that is not conduct they approve of and take their own action and suspend a player for the game withbout pay. That would be the team's first amendment right being exercised. This shit could be cut out with the quickness if they wanted to.

There you go. That would fix it. Just tell em, hey your excercising your right as a citizen and I'm excercising my right as a coach. A requirement for you to play is to stand, if you can't do it, I will excercise my right not to play you. Simple.

[starkvegasdawg]

I fear the world my children and grandchildren face.

You and me both. After I saw what my daughter was picking up in public school in second grade I said no more and pulled her out and we now homeschool both our children. We had been thinking about it for a long time anyway with that common core BS, but the things she was hearing out on the playground was the dealbreaker. I know I can't shelter her from that stuff forever, but dammit I'm going to protect her innocence as long as I can.

[MidTNDawg]

probably should be in a political category. It would help if the first family of the US of A would stand with apparent pride. It would help if all of our country's leaders would profess unity and stop emphasizing various groups for whatever reason. And on and on this could go.

[msstate7]

There you go. That would fix it. Just tell em, hey your excercising your right as a citizen and I'm excercising my right as a coach. A requirement for you to play is to stand, if you can't do it, I will excercise my right not to play you. Simple.

What would you do in carroll's situation? The whole Seahawk team isn't standing

[Commercecomet24]

You and me both. After I saw what my daughter was picking up in public school in second grade I said no more and pulled her out and we now homeschool both our children. We had been thinking about it for a long time anyway with that common core BS, but the things she was hearing out on the playground was the dealbreaker. I know I can't shelter her from that stuff forever, but dammit I'm going to protect her innocence as long as I can.

We think alike.

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

What needs to happen is athletes need to realize they are protesting the wrong thing. The federal government is investigating every single police shooting of black victims. Every one of them. Directly from the President of the US and the attorney general. The 2 most powerful people in the world.

If they want to protest their local city flag or state flag, go ahead. But to protest against the organization the agrees with you is just plain moronic.

[Beaver]

Is this just a fad?

Yes. My guess is it'll stop after the election as long as their preferred candidate comes out on top.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

What would you do in carroll's situation? The whole Seahawk team isn't standing

He's the one encouraging it and came out and supported Kapernick initially...go figure this bs is coming from San Fran and Seattle.

[mcain31]

Move this to the political board

[Commercecomet24]

He's the one encouraging it and came out and supported Kapernick initially...go figure this bs is coming from San Fran and Seattle.

Yep!

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

From Shaq:

I mean, to each his own. It’s something I wouldn’t do. His comments were there are injustices. There have always been injustices. Me, personally, I would probably go about it a different way. You know, my question is, what happened last year? How come you didn’t decide to do this last year or the year before that or the year before that?
I don’t know Colin, but to each his own. I don’t really have a say on it, but I would never do that. My father was a military man, and he protected this country. My uncles are in law enforcement. They go out and work hard every day. Just, there are other ways to get your point across.

Again, my thing is, you have to enter onto the scene one way. People like Muhammad Ali and Bill Russell, they were one way their whole career. You can’t show us something and then go to another just because of certain issues. I’m aware of all the issues, but my question is, how come you didn’t do it last year? Or how come you didn’t do it when you first entered the NFL? I don’t know Colin. To each his own. It’s his constitutional right to do that, but I’d never do that.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/shaq-on-colin-kaepernicks-national-anthem-protest-i-would-never-do-that-190502309.html

[Liverpooldawg]

The best thing would be to ignore it. What is going to be REALLY interesting to see is if a player decides to protest something that isn't politically correct to the left. If they allow this they should have to allow a protest against, say abortion. They have opened a can of worms by allowing it.

[HSVDawg]

These players need to realize how incredibly lucky they really are, and that there is only country in the world that affords them this ridiculous opportunity.

What ridiculous opportunity? The US is far from the only country that has professional sports. I don't agree with the players stance, but that statement doesn't hold any water.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

The best thing would be to ignore it.

What about the kids that see this? How do you explain what they're doing to kids?

[BoomBoom]

Sorry if this belongs on the political board.

The Seahawks just announced that the entire team won't be standing for national anthem this Sunday. I get the entire 1st amendment rights thing, &, while I'm not totally sure what they are protesting or who they are protesting against, I do respect the idea that Americans get to stand up for what they believe.

However, because I don't totally understand what is being protested or who is being protested against, I'm additionally not completely clear what has to happen for athletes to begin standing for the national anthem again.

Is this just a fad or, because there is no end game, we will get to the point where no one stands for the national anthem anymore?

If it's the ladder, that seems fairly destructive to the country. I need help understanding this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr3Ew1gW8AgQnUW.jpg:large

http://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision

Maybe implement the obvious reforms proposed, or maybe just have questions like yours that dont generate 2 pages of BS before a response like this?

As others pointed out, a common response to BLM was that they should protest without causing riots and looting. This does, yet again complete outrage. Seems bringing up the problem is what causes outrage.

[EngDawg]

In before the lock

[Jack Lambert]

Why can't these ****ers just suit up and play football and keep the political crap out of the stadium. I don't watch NFL anymore and this is just another reson for me not to.

[Irondawg]

Look the NFL will fine players for wearing the wrong color shoelaces or for a billion other things. Tell them to respect the anthem of their country. If they don't like it, feel free to go play in some other country because you won't be playing football on Sundays and getting a gamecheck. Want to go on ESPN and talk about protest or political things -feel free to.

But you don't disrespect the country and flag that gives you the opportunity to play the game. Period.

For someone like Kap, I would just ask him publicly if he wants to refuse security protection. If he says no I'd ask him to explain why he wants pigs to protect him. If not, just publicly announce there will be no security around Kap on gamedays and let's how long it is before someone kicks his ass.

The whole thing is just stupid.

[Liverpooldawg]

What about the kids that see this? How do you explain what they're doing to kids?

Tell them that its allowed but that its stupid. That is a good lesson actually, just because something is allowed doesn't mean it's right. I'll say this, I just got back into watching the NFL somewhat after a long time not watching at all. If this continues I probably will revert back to not watching. I don't like the pro game that much anyway.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

http://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision

Maybe implement the obvious reforms proposed, or maybe just have questions like yours that dont generate 2 pages of BS before a response like this?

As others pointed out, a common response to BLM was that they should protest without causing riots and looting. This does, yet again complete outrage. Seems bringing up the problem is what causes outrage.

LOL that site looks very inclusive***

[Liverpooldawg]

LOL that site looks very inclusive***

To him it is. Inclusive only means those he agrees with. Join us on the political board. I'm sure this thread is headed there anyway.

[TimberBeast]

LOL that site looks very inclusive***

He's nuts, I wouldn't click on any link he posts. I guarantee he's in full support of anything that protests this country and the police. This should not be moved to the political board, it should stay right here. It's sports related and people should be able to see what some of the crazies on here actually think sometimes.

[spiral]

I think it's ironic they are protesting oppression by not standing as a team. You know dang well not all of the players agree. The ones in disagreement are probably well aware of the retribution in the locker room they will receive so just go with the team. THAT'S oppression.

There's many other ways to respectfully protest or, hey, even actually help out if they put their minds to it and really care.

[Gomez09]

I saw a picture of people standing on my home page just a few minutes ago but none of them had their hand on their heart. Not sure if that's a big deal or not but I would think that would be something that would generate some buzz... Maybe I am just old school.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Tell them that its allowed but that its stupid. That is a good lesson actually, just because something is allowed doesn't mean it's right. I'll say this, I just got back into watching the NFL somewhat after a long time not watching at all. If this continues I probably will revert back to not watching. I don't like the pro game that much anyway.

I work with disadvantaged youth and it's a little harder with that group to explain it. I guess I can't worry about what I can't control and continue to help in any way that I can.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Now it's spreading to the Military...

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/this-sailor-sided-with-kaepernick-sat-out-anthem-now-the-navy-is-taking-action
The sailor, who is in training at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida, posted a video of her sitting during during the anthem at a colors ceremony, saying she won't stand until the U.S. proves "that they've got my back as a black woman."

During the video, the sailor, who is black, is seated near the flag pole at NAS Pensacola in her civilian clothes. The sailor said she was protesting the rarely heard third stanza of the National Anthem that appears to reference killing slaves hired by the British Army during the War of 1812 in exchange for their freedom; Historians disagree on the Francis Scott Key’s original meaning.

[smootness]

What about the kids that see this? How do you explain what they're doing to kids?

Huh? Seriously?

I think these protests are pretty stupid, but this is not some horrific thing that children shouldn't be exposed to.

Just tell the kids what they're doing and why they say they're doing it. If you want to offer your own opinion to them, do so. They're your kids.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Please move this to the political board. Nothing good can come from this staying on an open free forum.

[RougeDawg]

They need to be told the truth. The truth that more whites are shot by police every year than any other race. They need to be told that more black people kill more black and white people than the other way around. They need to be told that the police hunting down anyone is a myth and as far from the truth as possible. They need to be told that every inner city has issues because they've been voting a certain party into office since the 60's. The same party that fought tooth and nail against integration and emancipation.

One prime example of the truth for everyone to research: look up Bill Clintons most influential and respected mentor and this certain persons history and what he stood for. This person influenced many of said partys current members. It's just a fact. You can ignore facts and create your own reality much similar to the Bearshart fan base.

Bottom line is The current media is in the tank for said party and will not tell the truth about crime, and the history of said party. As long as we continue to believe the lies and perpetuate ignorance across this nation it will continue.

My advice is for everyone to go out and watch Idiocracy. It's where we ate headed unless people start thinking and doing for themselves. Another direct result of said parties initiatives to dumb down society and make them dependent on Govt.

So in conclusion, never. It will continue to happen because these idiots believe what they want to believe and refuse to acknowledge the truth because the truth will demolish every thought and belief they ever conceived in their simplistic minds.

[HSVDawg]

They need to be told the truth. The truth that more whites are shot by police every year than any other race. They need to be told that more black people kill more black and white people than the other way around. They need to be told that the police hunting down anyone is a myth and as far from the truth as possible. They need to be told that every inner city has issues because they've been voting a certain party into office since the 60's. The same party that fought tooth and nail against integration and emancipation.

One prime example of the truth for everyone to research: look up Bill Clintons most influential and respected mentor and this certain persons history and what he stood for. This person influenced many of said partys current members. It's just a fact. You can ignore facts and create your own reality much similar to the Bearshart fan base.

Bottom line is The current media is in the tank for said party and will not tell the truth about crime, and the history of said party. As long as we continue to believe the lies and perpetuate ignorance across this nation it will continue.

My advice is for everyone to go out and watch Idiocracy. It's where we ate headed unless people start thinking and doing for themselves. Another direct result of said parties initiatives to dumb down society and make them dependent on Govt.

So in conclusion, never. It will continue to happen because these idiots believe what they want to believe and refuse to acknowledge the truth because the truth will demolish every thought and belief they ever conceived in their simplistic minds.

Well....that escalated quickly.

[Commercecomet24]

Now it's spreading to the Military...

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/this-sailor-sided-with-kaepernick-sat-out-anthem-now-the-navy-is-taking-action
The sailor, who is in training at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida, posted a video of her sitting during during the anthem at a colors ceremony, saying she won't stand until the U.S. proves "that they've got my back as a black woman."

During the video, the sailor, who is black, is seated near the flag pole at NAS Pensacola in her civilian clothes. The sailor said she was protesting the rarely heard third stanza of the National Anthem that appears to reference killing slaves hired by the British Army during the War of 1812 in exchange for their freedom; Historians disagree on the Francis Scott Key?s original meaning.

I'm a history buff and I've studied on this third verse pretty extensively. There is some dispute but most historians agree on the following:

Key describes the British as arrogan and boastful in the lyrics 'that band who so vauntingly swore'. He is venting his anger at the British with the "foul footsteps' pollution" lyrics inferring that the British poisoned the ground on which they walked, but the poison and corruption had been washed away by the blood of the British. The lyrics "the hireling" refers to the British use of Mercenaries(German Hessians) in the American War of Independence. They lyrics "and slave" is a direct reference to the British practice of impressment(kidnapping American seamen and forcing them into service on British man of war ships. This was a main cause of the War of 1812. Key then describes the Star Spangled Banner as a symbol of liberty over all adversity.

This is the common meaning agreed upon by most historians. Its why you have not heard until recently that it meant the killing of slaves by Americans. It's people trying to change context and create a stink when there shouldn't be one.

[maroonmania]

Apparently if we eliminate all police departments and live in utter chaos then we can have people proudly stand for the national anthem again.***

[drunkernhelldawg]

I believe the NFL tries to eliminate political statements by participants. The tricky thing in this case is that forcing them to stand is also a kind of political statements. That's why it's best here to let individual players make their own decisions. I don't agree with it as a legitimate protest because I believe that reverence for the country and basic patriotism are duties of citizenship. But I'm not in control of other adults. They get to speak and think for themselves.

[Jack Lambert]

I believe the NFL tries to eliminate political statements by participants. The tricky thing in this case is that forcing them to stand is also a kind of political statements. That's why it's best here to let individual players make their own decisions. I don't agree with it as a legitimate protest because I believe that reverence for the country and basic patriotism are duties of citizenship. But I'm not in control of other adults. They get to speak and think for themselves.

Maybe they should play it before the teams come out. Miss State does it that way.

[TimberBeast]

Maybe they should play it before the teams come out. Miss State does it that way.

I think at this point that would be letting them off the hook too easy.

[sleepy dawg]

I usually don't stand. I go to sporting events to watch sports, not to show my patriotism. I will be standing while we're on defense though.

[sleepy dawg]

Actually, I wish they'd just stop playing the national anthem at sporting events all together. I really don't understand why it's done before every single college and pro sporting events, but basically no where else in my life. It just seems so unnecessary.

[CarolinaDawgs]

The best thing would be to ignore it. What is going to be REALLY interesting to see is if a player decides to protest something that isn't politically correct to the left. If they allow this they should have to allow a protest against, say abortion. They have opened a can of worms by allowing it.

Genius Idea. If youre a back up or practice squad member take a kneel during the anthem and when asked say something like "I'm against a country that allows gay marriage" if you are suspended or withheld money from or really reprimanded in any way SUE THAT ASS ALL THE WAY TO THE MANSION BABY!!!!

[Commercecomet24]

The best thing would be to ignore it. What is going to be REALLY interesting to see is if a player decides to protest something that isn't politically correct to the left. If they allow this they should have to allow a protest against, say abortion. They have opened a can of worms by allowing it.

I love the way you think! Thats the best idea yet! You know if that were to happen that player would be cut immediately and crucified by the national media for not being "accepting" to that particular groups plight. I sure wish that someone would start turning the tables on this stuff and do something like that. I guess its to much ask. You hit it on the head.

[BoomBoom]

He's nuts, I wouldn't click on any link he posts. I guarantee he's in full support of anything that protests this country and the police. This should not be moved to the political board, it should stay right here. It's sports related and people should be able to see what some of the crazies on here actually think sometimes.

Amd there's why there's a need for a protest. You propose common sense reforms, and you get called a crazy who hates his country.

I would say they feel the need to protest because they feel their grievances aren't given proper acknowledgement and discussion. And this thread proves it. A certain ideological movement would rather sweep this problem under the rug and ignore it, and is attempting to do that by misdirection and character assassination, and Kap and others are finding a way to say we won't be silenced, we're still here, the problem still exists.

[TUSK]

A) Licensing parenthood
B) 9/11 2.0

[shannondawg]

When we get a president that respects the flag and anthem, then maybe they will.

[Commercecomet24]

When we get a president that respects the flag and anthem, then maybe they will.

Amen to this!

[Duckdog]

Actually, I wish they'd just stop playing the national anthem at sporting events all together. I really don't understand why it's done before every single college and pro sporting events, but basically no where else in my life. It just seems so unnecessary.

stop being a DB

[mparkerfd20]

Have a Ex-Vet Sniper setup on the top row and take out whoever doesn't stand. Do that a time or 2 and I damn well betcha everyone would stand.

[Willn1]

The Constitution is not an ala carte document. Either you agree an athlete is entitled to all of his rights or you should be prepared to sacrifice the rights that others think you shouldn't have.

[BeardoMSU]

Have a Ex-Vet Sniper setup on the top row and take out whoever doesn't stand. Do that a time or 2 and I damn well betcha everyone would stand.

Adorable**

[Bothrops]

The National anthem probably won't be played at any sporting event in another 10-15 years.

[Commercecomet24]

We are worried that we have lost our identity as a football team, well we are losing our identity as a country.

[BeardoMSU]

We are worried that we have lost our identity as a football team, well we are losing our identity as a country.

So true: nothing more anti-America than a bunch of Americans engaging in peaceful protest. ***

[maroonmania]

So true: nothing more anti-America than a bunch of Americans engaging in peaceful protest. ***

But the question is protest against what? They say oppression, but is getting arrested after committing a crime being oppressed?

[drunkernhelldawg]

When we get a president that respects the flag and anthem, then maybe they will.

Don't think this is appropriate or true. Don't think it has anything to do with what we are discussing. Wonder why you posted it here.

[Commercecomet24]

So true: nothing more anti-America than a bunch of Americans engaging in peaceful protest. ***

I never said anyone was anti-America. I respect anyones right to protest. And it's my right to express my opinion. I sure as hell don't oppress anyone. What i'm referring to is the general lack of respect for Our Country, our neighbors and each other. I see it everyday and didn't use to be this way. I'm disappointed that people just apparently don't care as much anymore. It's sad and tragic

[TimberBeast]

Amd there's why there's a need for a protest. You propose common sense reforms, and you get called a crazy who hates his country.

I would say they feel the need to protest because they feel their grievances aren't given proper acknowledgement and discussion. And this thread proves it. A certain ideological movement would rather sweep this problem under the rug and ignore it, and is attempting to do that by misdirection and character assassination, and Kap and others are finding a way to say we won't be silenced, we're still here, the problem still exists.

You can't fix a problem that doesn't exist. However they could protest and fix some of the real problems in this country, but no one wants to talk about that.

[TimberBeast]

What a cheap, lying shot. You and Trump love to make things up to attack other people.

Wow, nice shot at trying to get the thread moved. Exactly something I would expect out of you. This thread is directly sports related and should be discussed right where it is.

[Commercecomet24]

But the question is protest against what? They say oppression, but is getting arrested after committing a crime being oppressed?

Exactly! Just like the riots up in Milwaukee. They rioted and burned crap down because the police shot a man who had just commited armed robbery and was shooting at them with a gun and ammunition he just stole! I guess people would feel better if the police just let him go so he could rob and kill someone else. Common sense doesn't come into play anmyore. I was always taught that if you did something wrong there would be consequences. Nobody wants there to be consequences anymore, just do whatever the hell you want. Its one of the things that destroyed the Roman Empire.

[Commercecomet24]

You can't fix a problem that doesn't exist. However they could protest and fix some of the real problems in this country, but no one wants to talk about that.

C'mon man you're making to much sense. Nail on head!

[Dolphus Raymond]

People made such a big deal out of a non-issue that it has now morphed into a First Amendment statement/ issue. Those who made such a big deal about a guy not standing caused this to grow. I brought up in another post how hypocritical it was to criticize a football player for being unpatriotic but excusing a well known politician's un patriotic behavior. (Yes. It is what it is )
I don't like it when people refuse to stand but I damn sure support their First Amendment right to sit.

[RocketDawg]

Now it's spreading to the Military...

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/this-sailor-sided-with-kaepernick-sat-out-anthem-now-the-navy-is-taking-action
The sailor, who is in training at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida, posted a video of her sitting during during the anthem at a colors ceremony, saying she won't stand until the U.S. proves "that they've got my back as a black woman."

During the video, the sailor, who is black, is seated near the flag pole at NAS Pensacola in her civilian clothes. The sailor said she was protesting the rarely heard third stanza of the National Anthem that appears to reference killing slaves hired by the British Army during the War of 1812 in exchange for their freedom; Historians disagree on the Francis Scott Key?s original meaning.

Military members have a completely different set of rules than civilians. They have the UCMJ. She should be court martialed and removed from the military.

[RocketDawg]

People made such a big deal out of a non-issue that it has now morphed into a First Amendment statement/ issue. Those who made such a big deal about a guy not standing caused this to grow. I brought up in another post how hypocritical it was to criticize a football player for being unpatriotic but excusing a well known politician's un patriotic behavior. (Yes. It is what it is )
I don't like it when people refuse to stand but I damn sure support their First Amendment right to sit.

That's not true. It was made a big issue when it was publicized. The current situation is just the overwhelming majority of people who consider disrespect of the anthem and the flag as a terrible thing to do.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Yes, anyone, in my opinion, who falls under the UCMJ, is subject to the rules of the military and therefore, does not have the same First Amendment protections afforded civilians.

[TimberBeast]

Military members have a completely different set of rules than civilians. They have the UCMJ. She should be court martialed and removed from the military.

Think that will happen with our military today? I say no way.

[RocketDawg]

Think that will happen with our military today? I say no way.

Unfortunately, probably not. I've even seen openings at football games where a uniform-wearing military member "sang" the National Anthem, and jazzed it up. Never thought they would do that.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Amd there's why there's a need for a protest. You propose common sense reforms, and you get called a crazy who hates his country.

I would say they feel the need to protest because they feel their grievances aren't given proper acknowledgement and discussion. And this thread proves it. A certain ideological movement would rather sweep this problem under the rug and ignore it, and is attempting to do that by misdirection and character assassination, and Kap and others are finding a way to say we won't be silenced, we're still here, the problem still exists.

What's up with all the fists raised on that site? That pic of the kids and the campaign was disturbing.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

The Constitution is not an ala carte document. Either you agree an athlete is entitled to all of his rights or you should be prepared to sacrifice the rights that others think you shouldn't have.

The players have the right to do whatever they want to do under freedom of speech and there can be no action taken against them by the government. The NFL can say sit if you want to, but here are the fines that will be paid for doing it, if it means so much to you, fork over the money. The NFL is a brand and they are representing the brand, the NFL can levy punishment anyway they see fit.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Wow, nice shot at trying to get the thread moved. Exactly something I would expect out of you. This thread is directly sports related and should be discussed right where it is.

Probably should have ignored it. Just despise the cheapies though. Don't get what it is entitles people to take em.

[Commercecomet24]

The players have the right to do whatever they want to do under freedom of speech and there can be no action taken against them by the government. The NFL can say sit if you want to, but here are the fines that will be paid for doing it, if it means so much to you, fork over the money. The NFL is a brand and they are representing the brand, the NFL can levy punishment anyway they see fit.

Yep then they can give that fine money to the oppressed. That should make kap feel ecstatic! I like the idea.

[BoomBoom]

You can't fix a problem that doesn't exist. However they could protest and fix some of the real problems in this country, but no one wants to talk about that.

if the problem doesn't exist, then what is the downside of enacting the reforms? for example, what would be the problem with having state agencies investigate fatal police shootings, rather than the same PD as the cop that shot someone? the ONLY reason to be against that is if you want to prevent justice. and when the majority of the country is behind that, well i can understand having some conflicted feelings.

as i've said, this thread has provided ample supporting evidence for the need for Kap's protest.

[Commercecomet24]

if the problem doesn't exist, then what is the downside of enacting the reforms? for example, what would be the problem with having state agencies investigate fatal police shootings, rather than the same PD as the cop that shot someone? the ONLY reason to be against that is if you want to prevent justice. and when the majority of the country is behind that, well i can understand having some conflicted feelings.

as i've said, this thread has provided ample supporting evidence for the need for Kap's protest.

Damn man if I hated living somewhere as much as kapermick hates this country I would move. I couldn't stand living in a place I hated so much. Wouldn't that solve his problem? I bet his buddy Castro would find him a place.

[Spiderman]

Sorry if this belongs on the political board.

The Seahawks just announced that the entire team won't be standing for national anthem this Sunday. I get the entire 1st amendment rights thing, &, while I'm not totally sure what they are protesting or who they are protesting against, I do respect the idea that Americans get to stand up for what they believe.

However, because I don't totally understand what is being protested or who is being protested against, I'm additionally not completely clear what has to happen for athletes to begin standing for the national anthem again.

Is this just a fad or, because there is no end game, we will get to the point where no one stands for the national anthem anymore?

If it's the ladder, that seems fairly destructive to the country. I need help understanding this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr3Ew1gW8AgQnUW.jpg:large

Common fooking sense.

99.9% of Americans shunning and making their ass pay for it.

[msujan]

What would you do in carroll's situation? The whole Seahawk team isn't standing

If Carroll supports the entire team refusing to stand for the national anthem and if I were his boss, I'd fire him!

[msujan]

What would you do in carroll's situation? The whole Seahawk team isn't standing

If Carroll is supporting the entire team not standing for the national anthem and if I were his boss, I'd fire him.

[msstate7]

Well this is one way to end this... Brandon Marshall loses endorsement.

http://www.necn.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/Brandon-Marshall-Loses-Endorsement-Over-Anthem-Kneel-392919801.html

[Dolphus Raymond]

I don't condone sitting; never have and never will. However, these acts of defiance are First Amendment issues and the First Amendment takes precedent unless, as the Court has said "You scream FIRE in a crowded movie theater" l.e. your free speech is protected up to the point it infringes on the rights of others.
However, the selective outrage regarding un-American behavior and statements is disgustingly hypocritical. So, perhaps this thread should be locked to allow us to reflect on patriotism and sacrifice.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

but is getting arrested after committing a crime being oppressed?

Absolutely it is to them. They deserve your stuff that you worked for. Don't you understand?

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

It's just the latest fad and it will pass.

[Commercecomet24]

Well this is one way to end this... Brandon Marshall loses endorsement.

http://www.necn.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/Brandon-Marshall-Loses-Endorsement-Over-Anthem-Kneel-392919801.html

Glad to see someone had the stones to do something about it. Good for them.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Good....He says he's against "Social Injustice"....BS..He is just for drawing to attention to himself.

[Coach 57]

Jesus not the "Jesus" of most churches but THE JESUS of the Bible, Who COMMANDS those that follow Him to treat others more significant that others & to do NOTHING from "rivalry or conceit" (Phil 2:3).

[HereComesTheSpiral]

I don't condone sitting; never have and never will. However, these acts of defiance are First Amendment issues and the First Amendment takes precedent unless, as the Court has said "You scream FIRE in a crowded movie theater" l.e. your free speech is protected up to the point it infringes on the rights of others.
However, the selective outrage regarding un-American behavior and statements is disgustingly hypocritical. So, perhaps this thread should be locked to allow us to reflect on patriotism and sacrifice.

You're right, they have a right to be assholes, the NFL also has the right to fine or suspend them over. Freedom of speech does not protect you from all punishment, only punishment from the government.

[Apoplectic]

Join me - haven't watch a nfl game in almost 5 years. Sunday's are so awesome!!!

[BeardoMSU]

Join me - haven't watch a nfl game in almost 5 years. Sunday's are so awesome!!!

It's had a huge impact on the NFL market, too. Keep it up, bra!***

[Apoplectic]

It's had a huge impact on the NFL market, too. Keep it up, bra!***

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/09/09/boycott-nfl-sweeps-internet-ungrateful-players-can-sit-anthem-fans-can-sit-games-388603

[JohnnyQuid]

sports talk radio been filled with this garbage for couple weeks now - to each their own as far as feelings go but I'm ****ing tired of hearing about it

holy **** me I wanna listen to sports talk or watch a sports show and not listen to political/social justice opinions from ex ball players and journalists with an agenda.

TLDR; ignore it till it gets forgotten about - we're 1 big story from it vaporizing

[TimberBeast]

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/09/09/boycott-nfl-sweeps-internet-ungrateful-players-can-sit-anthem-fans-can-sit-games-388603

That's great, that's the way it should happen. The players have the right to sit, but the fans also have the right to show them what should happen when they show such disrespect for our country for a bullshit cause.

[Bucky Dog]

Actually, I wish they'd just stop playing the national anthem at sporting events all together. I really don't understand why it's done before every single college and pro sporting events, but basically no where else in my life. It just seems so unnecessary.

You're an idiot

[Aquadawg]

Sorry if this belongs on the political board.

The Seahawks just announced that the entire team won't be standing for national anthem this Sunday. I get the entire 1st amendment rights thing, &, while I'm not totally sure what they are protesting or who they are protesting against, I do respect the idea that Americans get to stand up for what they believe.

However, because I don't totally understand what is being protested or who is being protested against, I'm additionally not completely clear what has to happen for athletes to begin standing for the national anthem again.

Is this just a fad or, because there is no end game, we will get to the point where no one stands for the national anthem anymore?

If it's the ladder, that seems fairly destructive to the country. I need help understanding this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr3Ew1gW8AgQnUW.jpg:large


This being a team thing by Seatle if totally different than capernick (sp?). It is being justified by many as a free speech thing and I guess he has that right, (though I believe he does it in a totally inappropriate forum ... doing it at the expense of disrespect to America). If he truly feels strongly about this he could do it in a different way that is more direct and make his point diffinatively not in the nebulous fashion he has chosen, leaving people wondering what his belief is.
Sorry, got of track there. My point was to be that the entire Seattle team taking the same action is not a statement of free speech and about individual rights. If this is the complete team doing it, then I question
how this was arrived at. To the contrary, if the entire team is doing this and a few players choose not to participate... They are the ones exhibiting individual rights and free screech. It would also be curious to me to see if they would take more heat for their actions than capernick for his.

[drunkernhelldawg]

That's great, that's the way it should happen. The players have the right to sit, but the fans also have the right to show them what should happen when they show such disrespect for our country for a bullshit cause.

Marshall and his ilk should be careful about influencing players who have much less ability to absorb financial hits than he does. I don't think the NFL is going to be widely boycotted though. It's just too good.

[Churchill]

Be a "victim" has been a very lucrative occupation for millions in this country. They scream for "equality" but that`s really the last thing they want. Wake up America !

[parabrave]

Boo the Shi@ out of them and use your 1st adm. rights on them anytime you see them in public. Also sine they are going to be void of any police protection for the forseeable future; its a good time to see how their expensive cars paint jobs hold up.

[BulldogBacker]

Be a "victim" has been a very lucrative occupation for millions in this country. They scream for "equality" but that`s really the last thing they want. Wake up America !

I have lived in both the USA and three foreign countries. I have worked with and been commander/supervisor of every race and ethnic group in the USA. I accept people for who they are inside. Most of you should walk in another man's shoes. Statistics don't lie, and there are several irrefutable facts behind these protests.

1. People of color's convictions result in far more jail and prison time than an exact conviction of a majority racial member.
2. Caucasians in US courts get far more "charges dismissed" results than people of color.
3. If that Stanford swimmer had been a young black male who had done the exact same thing to that unconscious young woman, he would have gotten a minimum of 20 years.

Finally, I think some of you should walk in the shoes of young black men. In my military experience, I had a young black lieutenant who came from an upper middle class family in Washington, D.C., whose wife was a prominent operatic soprano in the Northeast, and I gave him an "outstanding" performance report. My immediate superior downgraded his performance report, over my objections, to "below" average. The young lieutenant had his military career ended and he resigned a year later. I asked my superior officer "why?" and his response was "we don't need officers like him" and I don't need your objections to my judgement. I wish I could have changed Jay Frazier's outcome, but couldn't.

[Bodawg]

We've come a long way from the days of Pat Tillman, who quit the NFL to become an Army Ranger and ultimately give his life for this nations freedom. To this bunch of egotistical, whinny momma's boys who can't wait until October to put their pink on. I've lost much interest in the NFL. If this continues, I'm through.

[Churchill]

You`re exactly right "statistics don`t lie" and it`s a shame you don`t have any to back your ambiguous claims.

[Commercecomet24]

In the 60's when the marches to Selma, Birmingham and other cities occurred those fine people who were more oppressed than anyone today, carried the American Flag and sang the National Anthem. They showed the proper way to get their message across and change occurred. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything. Disrespecting our country is not the right way.

[Quaoarsking]

I hope these Seahawks players realize that an entire NFL team kneeling for the national anthem will give Trump a 2-3 point bump in the polls. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...

[BoomBoom]

We've come a long way from the days of Pat Tillman, who quit the NFL to become an Army Ranger and ultimately give his life for this nations freedom. To this bunch of egotistical, whinny momma's boys who can't wait until October to put their pink on. I've lost much interest in the NFL. If this continues, I'm through.

Pat Tilman was murdered by his fellow soldiers for being liberal and against the war in Iraq. We haven't come very far at all.