Did Dan really "just lose a game"?

[blacklistedbully]

It seems our camp is divided along the lines of just how much this loss to USA means. To some it's just a single loss, and they believe many of us are overreacting to it. For some of us, not all losses are the same.

We lost to a really shitty Sunbelt team that was one of the worst teams vs the run last year and was missing 3 of their D-line starters, and in a game that wasn't a fluke. They beat us.

On top of that...Dan's post-game communication has been anything but encouraging...anything but indicative of a man accepting his own personal responsibility, with promises of getting it fixed.

As has been discussed ad nauseum, Dan was already on thin ice due to his constant apparent willingness to, "whore himself out" every year, which has damaged our recruiting efforts in that time of our history that should have been the stepping-stone, the springboard to further our program...coming off several weeks of #1 ranking.

Stop and think about how rare that was for us. In 115 years of football, we have never been close to that. Yes, Dan was instrumental in getting us there, but his actions have also clearly stunted our ability to fully capitalize on that success via recruiting.

That may well have been our one-shot in our lifetime, possibly ever to take that huge step forward toward becoming a powerhouse. We've seen multiple signs of that slipping away. The loss to USA looks like it might be the final nail-in-the-coffin of that dream.

So no...it is not just that he "lost one game".

That said, a good point brought up is...where do we go if we fire Dan? We've had one coach in our history that got us to #1....one who has taken us to heights never before reached. His overall record relative to our history is unparalleled. Given our resources and the conference we play in, we are a very difficult place to win consistently in football.

Difficult...yes, but impossible? No. Had Dan not shit-the-bed at the end of 2014, and thereafter, we had a golden opportunity to make a giant leap. We didn't. Will we ever get that chance again? If so...is Dan the man to get us there? If not...can we realistically expect to find someone else who can do better?

Nobody can say for sure, but we know the odds are against us...even moreso now that Dan has lead us to this incredibly damaging loss. In my mind, the best chance we have of ever getting back to that point is if Dan were to get his mojo back and really, truly commit to being the best-he-can-be...commit to working on his obvious flaws that have contributed to the ceiling he hit...and commit to being here as one of us, not as a guy looking for the next best opportunity, etc.

If he's not willing or able to do that, I'd just as soon he get the hell outta town so we an do our best to find a talented, motivated coach to be our leader going forward.

And Dan...don't use that BS excuse that a coach can only last so many years at one place. If you produce that doesn't happen. See Bear Bryant, Nick Saban, and any number of coaches that lasted for decades.

[Taog Redloh]

All coaches build and subsequently tear down (or allow the destruction of) their own empires. If a few things had changed, such as Mullen winning a few more games last year......then he may could have gotten out and we'd all been better for it. I also wish Jackie had retired in 2002. We'd have built a statue had he done that.

I still wish Stansbury had gone to Clemson in 2009.

I think our biggest problem is hanging on to anything semi-successful, then we end up overpaying for cocky coaches. If they want to leave, thank them for the job they did, and wish them well.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

All coaches build and subsequently tear down (or allow the destruction of) their own empires. If a few things had changed, such as Mullen winning a few more games last year......then he may could have gotten out and we'd all been better for it. I also wish Jackie had retired in 2002. We'd have built a statue had he done that.

I still wish Stansbury had gone to Clemson in 2009.

I think our biggest problem is hanging on to anything semi-successful, then we end up overpaying for cocky coaches. If they want to leave, thank them for the job they did, and wish them well.

Agree with this. I just hope that our administration has learned not to let people hang around and set us back so much.

[Irondawg]

Agree all losses are not the same and this was the perfect storm:

1) He lost some goodwill with his attitude the end of last year (just say "I love MSU" publicly and go interview to your hearts content).
2) USA is not a very good football team
3) We lost b/c we didn't commit to the clear thing we were better than them - power running. D-Will is not a great runner and ran all over them. Meanwhile your stable of power RB got a grand total of 4 carries and half of those were in the 1st half.
4) It's pretty clear you've botched the QB situation
5) Our secondary continues to be atrocious no matter how many DC's we bring in.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

^^This 100%

[West Houston Dog]

Mullen is always stressing relentless effort from the players. Fine. Agreed.

But Mullen needs relentless brains. We outweighed the DL by about 40 lbs per player i believe it was. and a 2nd string DL at that. Dan has run the diamond formation, pistol and run with a blocking FB in the past here at MSU. we had a lead that was shrinking...use your big back like Williams and pound away. Or Schumpert blocking for Williams. play action pass out of that. Dan was using D williams like it was last years Dak attack and running a 5'8" 165 lb rb in between the tackles instead.000

And in addition our new DC running a vanilla 4 man pass rush that was not getting to their qb while he was shredding our new cb's(and more experienced safeties). Dial up some pressure like Collins or Diaz would have to get after that qb.

Relentless brains Dan. Relentless.

Please.

[Commercecomet24]

Here's something I got to thinking about the game. This loss was obviously on the coaching staff but here's a thought. We were up 17-0 at half and had scored pretty easily and our defense outside the secondary had played well. We had put up over 200 yds they couldn't run while not a blowout we were in control similar to a couple years ago against them. If we don't start wholesale subs and don't get cute we probably win 34-10 or something like that just another uninspiring ooc win but a win. Just think if Leo would've been in there instead of Jung on the goal line that's a safety not a big run. If we had played the correct players in the second half and not got cute we win. This was all on the coaches and treating this like a scrimmage and our players played accordingly. This was unacceptable. I'm waiting to see what happens Saturday and see if this was a snot knocker for our coach. We play uninspired Saturday it's done.

[Chip]

IMO:
Was the loss embarrassing? Yes, of course.
Should the loss have happened? No, certainly not.
Is the loss - embarrassing as it was - a reason to wipe a slate clean of the coaching staff and start with a new coaching staff? No, that's an overreaction.

Further, I had hopes of a 6-6 year, given that it was a re-building year. We may not reach my hoped for record, given the loss. Still, there is a lot to be said for continuity in a coaching staff. Things like relationships with recruits and their parents, holding crucial players on the roster who may otherwise transfer, and such. We truly don't know how the rest of the season will play out. I'd guess right now, barring a quarterback really coming on strong, we'll see 3 to 4 wins. But hopefully those 3 to 4 wins, and even the painful losses will show the team growing up, new leadership emerging amongst the players, an offense and defense beginning to gel.

Moreover, we need to see progress on the recruiting front, for next year's signing day. Hanging on to K Thompson and the RB out of Columbus. Getting some improved cornerback prospects, OL prospects, etc.

The balance on the football scale in state has the ability to move markedly in the next couple of years, and wiping the slate after a loss in year that we all thought would be an off year doesn't seem like the right course of action to me at this time. That's exactly what our rivals would want us to do - throw our program into tumult through self infliction.

The loss stung mightily, but I just don't think everything is as bad as it seems today, nor in the best of times (like in 14) was everything as good as it seemed.

Flame away, and before anyone tries to call me a black bear - I'm not. Those that know me on this board can tell you that. I just have a different opinion than most on here.

[louisvilledawg]

Mullen is always stressing relentless effort from the players. Fine. Agreed.

But Mullen needs relentless brains. We outweighed the DL by about 40 lbs per player i believe it was. and a 2nd string DL at that. Dan has run the diamond formation, pistol and run with a blocking FB in the past here at MSU. we had a lead that was shrinking...use your big back like Williams and pound away. Or Schumpert blocking for Williams. play action pass out of that. Dan was using D williams like it was last years Dak attack and running a 5'8" 165 lb rb in between the tackles instead.000

And in addition our new DC running a vanilla 4 man pass rush that was not getting to their qb while he was shredding our new cb's(and more experienced safeties). Dial up some pressure like Collins or Diaz would have to get after that qb.

Relentless brains Dan. Relentless.

Please.

I agree with this.

When we had Anthony Dixon in the backfield (i am aware he was an nfl caliber running back so the production was greater than what we could do now), we had a white boy fullback/h-back (name escapes me), and we would run the power option and counters with him. Freaking put shumpert's strong ass in the hback position, and let Aeris do his thing- he was the gatorade player of the year for God's sake. Let Holloway run the dion lewis role and get a few carries here and there, but freaking let Aeris spin the damn thing (Friday night lights reference, not calling for Aeris to actually throw the ball.)

Fitzgerald, Aeris, Shumpert in hback, ross, myles, justin johnson, and go.

I'm so tired (so is everyone else on this board) of seeing Holloway go two yards up the middle and then get absolutely sodomized by a linebacker. I applaud him for continuously getting up after all the big hits he's taken the past 2 years.

Put your best players in situations to succeed and let them be athletes. Who cares if theyre underclassmen or not. If this is truly a rebuilding year, let the underclassmen play so we can build some rapport and experience for next year. This BS playing your upperclassmen because they deserve it is going to land you a 3-9 season.

Dan is smart enough to figure this out. Hopefully.

[Really Clark?]

Agree all losses are not the same and this was the perfect storm:

1) He lost some goodwill with his attitude the end of last year (just say "I love MSU" publicly and go interview to your hearts content).
2) USA is not a very good football team
3) We lost b/c we didn't commit to the clear thing we were better than them - power running. D-Will is not a great runner and ran all over them. Meanwhile your stable of power RB got a grand total of 4 carries and half of those were in the 1st half.
4) It's pretty clear you've botched the QB situation
5) Our secondary continues to be atrocious no matter how many DC's we bring in.

Just going to address your first point. He said that almost exactly that to the CL in November.

[Commercecomet24]

Just going to address your first point. He said that almost exactly that to the CL in November.

Thus is correct. Sometimes people only see or hear what they want to see or hear.

[TrapGame]

I agree with this.

When we had Anthony Dixon in the backfield (i am aware he was an nfl caliber running back so the production was greater than what we could do now), we had a white boy fullback/h-back (name escapes me), and we would run the power option and counters with him. Freaking put shumpert's strong ass in the hback position, and let Aeris do his thing- he was the gatorade player of the year for God's sake. Let Holloway run the dion lewis role and get a few carries here and there, but freaking let Aeris spin the damn thing (Friday night lights reference, not calling for Aeris to actually throw the ball.)

Fitzgerald, Aeris, Shumpert in hback, ross, myles, justin johnson, and go.

I'm so tired (so is everyone else on this board) of seeing Holloway go two yards up the middle and then get absolutely sodomized by a linebacker. I applaud him for continuously getting up after all the big hits he's taken the past 2 years.

Put your best players in situations to succeed and let them be athletes. Who cares if theyre underclassmen or not. If this is truly a rebuilding year, let the underclassmen play so we can build some rapport and experience for next year. This BS playing your upperclassmen because they deserve it is going to land you a 3-9 season.

Dan is smart enough to figure this out. Hopefully.

Hanrahan.

The kid would knock dicks off with his blocks. We've never had anything like that since. Mullen changed his offense after 2010. Shump would be a bad ass FB.

[Dawgtini]

IMO:
Was the loss embarrassing? Yes, of course.
Should the loss have happened? No, certainly not.
Is the loss - embarrassing as it was - a reason to wipe a slate clean of the coaching staff and start with a new coaching staff? No, that's an overreaction.

Further, I had hopes of a 6-6 year, given that it was a re-building year. We may not reach my hoped for record, given the loss. Still, there is a lot to be said for continuity in a coaching staff. Things like relationships with recruits and their parents, holding crucial players on the roster who may otherwise transfer, and such. We truly don't know how the rest of the season will play out. I'd guess right now, barring a quarterback really coming on strong, we'll see 3 to 4 wins. But hopefully those 3 to 4 wins, and even the painful losses will show the team growing up, new leadership emerging amongst the players, an offense and defense beginning to gel.

Moreover, we need to see progress on the recruiting front, for next year's signing day. Hanging on to K Thompson and the RB out of Columbus. Getting some improved cornerback prospects, OL prospects, etc.

The balance on the football scale in state has the ability to move markedly in the next couple of years, and wiping the slate after a loss in year that we all thought would be an off year doesn't seem like the right course of action to me at this time. That's exactly what our rivals would want us to do - throw our program into tumult through self infliction.

The loss stung mightily, but I just don't think everything is as bad as it seems today, nor in the best of times (like in 14) was everything as good as it seemed.

Flame away, and before anyone tries to call me a black bear - I'm not. Those that know me on this board can tell you that. I just have a different opinion than most on here.

http://images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDzMp5Pl.jpg

[drunkernhelldawg]

All coaches build and subsequently tear down (or allow the destruction of) their own empires. If a few things had changed, such as Mullen winning a few more games last year......then he may could have gotten out and we'd all been better for it. I also wish Jackie had retired in 2002. We'd have built a statue had he done that.

I still wish Stansbury had gone to Clemson in 2009.

I think our biggest problem is hanging on to anything semi-successful, then we end up overpaying for cocky coaches. If they want to leave, thank them for the job they did, and wish them well.

I kind of see it like that. My thing is more that it's about us, not about the coach. The coach moves on, but we're maroon forever. That's why I don't like to see us revere a coach too highly. I totally agree that we should never engage in a bidding war to keep one of them here. We pay good money to coaches. If one of them wants to leave, treat him like any other human and wave goodbye.