All these crazy theories are funny

[lamont]

It's way more simple than that- we just aren't very talented. We aren't stockpiling talent on the bench hiding it from the world. We lack it.

We lack it in the OL
We lack it at RB
We lack it at CB
We lack it in our WR depth

We just aren't very good. That's the only real theory

[HoopsDawg]

Nodding head.

[shoeless joe]

Agree to an extent. But we do have more talent available than what we are utilizing.

[Op4isabitch]

I agree with what you said and it all comes back to one person. So my theory isn't crazy, our HC ain't getting it done.

[msstate7]

We're 0-1, so are you saying we're behind USA in depth and talent?

If we win this week, will the USA game be an anomaly?

[HoopsDawg]

We're 0-1, so are you saying we're behind USA in depth and talent?

If we win this week, will the USA game be an anomaly?

From what I saw on the field, I would say it's very close.

[msstate7]

From what I saw on the field, I would say it's very close.

So it's free money this week. You loading up?

[fishwater99]

Agree to an extent. But we do have more talent available than what we are utilizing.

A. Williams can be a serviceable SEC RB along with Dear who is playing out of position.
We have other younger players that won't see the field because Dan won't play them.
I will not argue about how crappy the OL is.

[Dawg4Life]

It's way more simple than that- we just aren't very talented. We aren't stockpiling talent on the bench hiding it from the world. We lack it.

We lack it in the OL
We lack it at RB
We lack it at CB
We lack it in our WR depth

We just aren't very good. That's the only real theory

Serious question: How does this roster and its talent compare to the 2009 or 2010 year? This is not a loaded question, I just wanted some context when assessing where we were and where we are presently.

[HoopsDawg]

So it's free money this week. You loading up?

South Carolina sucks too. And I don't enjoy betting against my team.

[HoopsDawg]

Serious question: How does this roster and its talent compare to the 2009 or 2010 year? This is not a loaded question, I just wanted some context when assessing where we were and where we are presently.

The 2009 defense had 9 starters who played in the NFL. Also an NFL RB and olinemen. Does that answer your question?

[msstate7]

South Carolina sucks too. And I don't enjoy betting against my team.

Didn't stop you in basketball haha

[HoopsDawg]

Didn't stop you in basketball haha

True. That was just free money. And I couldn't stand Rick Ray. He did screw me on the FSU game though.

[Tbonewannabe]

I find it hard to believe the RBs on the bench are worse than Shumpert.

[HancockCountyDog]

Serious question: How does this roster and its talent compare to the 2009 or 2010 year? This is not a loaded question, I just wanted some context when assessing where we were and where we are presently.

The 2010 team would be a 20 point favorite and we would cover easily.

That 2010 MSU defense will go down as one of the best in MSU history, from a talent stand point.

[Political Hack]

Yeah, Mullen inherited a great defense and a solid OL.

[msstate7]

Yeah, Mullen inherited a great defense and a solid OL.

Yeah, he did. 2014 was his baby though. I'm not happy with Mullen at all right now, but reading this board you'd think he's done nothing since croom's talent left

[Leroy Jenkins]

The 2011 Gator Bowl team scored 52 if I remember correctly. And I think Bump was out with a broken clavicle from the EB.

If you compare that team to this one offensively:

Ballard > Any RB we have seen so far,.. so far.
Holloway = Perkins
Ross > Bumphis
Gray > Heavens
Myles > Clark
Fitz has shown flashes of being better than Relf.

The difference is that 2011 team played nasty and it started up front with a "run 1st mentality".

When I say "better than" Im talking production.

[HSVDawg]

It's way more simple than that- we just aren't very talented. We aren't stockpiling talent on the bench hiding it from the world. We lack it.

We lack it in the OL
We lack it at RB
We lack it at CB
We lack it in our WR depth

We just aren't very good. That's the only real theory

You left off one notable position (QB) which is pretty much the most important position on the field, and the one that is the subject of most of the "theories." If we do have talent at QB but still put forward the abomination of a performance at that position that we saw on Saturday, then what does that say?

[SPMT]

The 2011 Gator Bowl team scored 52 if I remember correctly. And I think Bump was out with a broken clavicle from the EB.

If you compare that team to this one offensively:

Ballard > Any RB we have seen so far,.. so far.
Holloway = Perkins
Ross > Bumphis
Gray > Heavens
Myles > Clark
Fitz has shown flashes of being better than Relf.

The difference is that 2011 team played nasty and it started up front with a "run 1st mentality".

When I say "better than" Im talking production.

We were a hardass team then. Great tough, dawg mentality. That team would steamroll this team. We had only one decent receiver in Bump, but we were tough as hell.

[GTHOM]

The 2011 Gator Bowl team scored 52 if I remember correctly. And I think Bump was out with a broken clavicle from the EB.

If you compare that team to this one offensively:

Ballard > Any RB we have seen so far,.. so far.
Holloway = Perkins
Ross > Bumphis
Gray > Heavens
Myles > Clark
Fitz has shown flashes of being better than Relf.

The difference is that 2011 team played nasty and it started up front with a "run 1st mentality".

When I say "better than" Im talking production.

Exactly. You dont go to pure garbage in talent all of a sudden. Theres plenty of talent at WR, the best RBs arent playing, even if they're not as good we're wasting our time with Shump. Stamps, Smitherman, both have talent neither saw the field the other day. Im not saying we have bama or lsu talent, or even anything close, but we arent using what we do have fully at thats on our HC.

[Coursesuper]

I agree. And many here have hit on the edges of it but on offense what we lack and lack greatly is any kind of an even serviceable offensive line. In 14 if we had an even good Oline we play for all of it. But we didn't and it's gotten much worse. The talent is poor as is the coaching. If you've played the game you can see it with one eye open, this position group is killing us. You can talk about backs and recovers and quarterbacks all you want but the game is won and lost at the line of scrimmage. Yes Hevesy sux, but it's not just on him.

[SDDawg]

It's way more simple than that- we just aren't very talented. We aren't stockpiling talent on the bench hiding it from the world. We lack it.

We lack it in the OL
We lack it at RB
We lack it at CB
We lack it in our WR depth

We just aren't very good. That's the only real theory

Ok - well that's where coaching kicks in and guys need to elevate their play. 2013 here we come.

[preachermatt83]

I agree with everything... Except the Arab position. We are loaded with talent there. It's not being utilized nor is it being coached up.

[HSVDawg]

I agree. And many here have hit on the edges of it but on offense what we lack and lack greatly is any kind of an even serviceable offensive line. In 14 if we had an even good Oline we play for all of it. But we didn't and it's gotten much worse. The talent is poor as is the coaching. If you've played the game you can see it with one eye open, this position group is killing us. You can talk about backs and recovers and quarterbacks all you want but the game is won and lost at the line of scrimmage. Yes Hevesy sux, but it's not just on him.

I agree about the OL as a whole, but the '14 OL was good enough to get us to the playoff if nothing else. We beat Bama and we are in the playoff that year. 2 redzone INT's, inability to contain Simms from scrambling on 3rd down twice on the final TD drive, and a questionable overturned fumble call all led to what was only a 6 point loss. OL wasn't dominate, but it wasn't the problem in that game or that year for the most part. I certainly consider that to be the exception rather than the rule for Hevesy though, so don't get it twisted.

[Leroy Jenkins]

I agree with everything... Except the Arab position. We are loaded with talent there. It's not being utilized nor is it being coached up.

Who do you think plays the Arab position most effectively?

[Coursesuper]

I agree about the OL as a whole, but the '14 OL was good enough to get us to the playoff if nothing else. We beat Bama and we are in the playoff that year. 2 redzone INT's, inability to contain Simms from scrambling on 3rd down twice on the final TD drive, and a questionable overturned fumble call all led to what was only a 6 point loss. OL wasn't dominate, but it wasn't the problem in that game or that year for the most part. I certainly consider that to be the exception rather than the rule for Hevesy though, so don't get it twisted.

I understand how you saw it. I tend to see the game a little differently. All the things you saw are part of the game you take that. What saw was an offensive line that got zero push all night and our running game became a nonexistent factor therfore allowing bammer to come after our passing game with their ears pinned back, we scored and hung in there but couldn't get over the hump. The bammers set the mold, the confeds, and GT followed it up and that season, the greatest season in our history, ended with a resounding THUD. The way to beat a team is to try to make them one dimensional, they did and it worked.

[Leroy Jenkins]

I understand how you saw it. I tend to see the game a little differently. All the things you saw are part of the game you take that. What saw was an offensive line that got zero push all night and our running game became a nonexistent factor therfore allowing bammer to come after our passing game with their ears pinned back, we scored and hung in there but couldn't get over the hump. The bammers set the mold, the confeds, and GT followed it up and that season, the greatest season in our history, ended with a resounding THUD. The way to beat a team is to try to make them one dimensional, they did and it worked.


Our OL isn't coached to "push" its zone blocking that revolves around occupying defenders and angles. We dont push shit. Also Woody Hevesy is the only human in the universe that knows how to teach it.

[HSVDawg]

I understand how you saw it. I tend to see the game a little differently. All the things you saw are part of the game you take that. What saw was an offensive line that got zero push all night and our running game became a nonexistent factor therfore allowing bammer to come after our passing game with their ears pinned back, we scored and hung in there but couldn't get over the hump. The bammers set the mold, the confeds, and GT followed it up and that season, the greatest season in our history, ended with a resounding THUD. The way to beat a team is to try to make them one dimensional, they did and it worked.

I can understand that, but honestly if you added two or three NFL draft picks to our OL, we still would have struggled to get push against Bama. Nobody ever goes into Tuscaloosa and blows them off the ball. With that in mind, we gameplanned accordingly and had a chance to win if not for turnovers and defensive lapses. I'm not saying that our OL was all-world in 2014, obviously thats not the case. But, it was good enough that year for us to be a playoff team when you consider all the other pieces we had in place. Was it still the overall weakest position unit on that team? Absolutely.

[msstate7]

I can understand that, but honestly if you added two or three NFL draft picks to our OL, we still would have struggled to get push against Bama. Nobody ever goes into Tuscaloosa and blows them off the ball. With that in mind, we gameplanned accordingly and had a chance to win if not for turnovers and defensive lapses. I'm not saying that our OL was all-world in 2014, obviously thats not the case. But, it was good enough that year for us to be a playoff team when you consider all the other pieces we had in place. Was it still the overall weakest position unit on that team? Absolutely.

I think the secondary was far weaker than the oline. We finished 2nd in scoring offense in sec, 3rd in rushing offense in sec, and 7th in sacks allowed in sec. We finished 14th in sec in passing defense, 14th in passing plays over 20, 14th in passing plays over 30, 13th in passing plays over 40, and 14th in passing plays over 50

[Coursesuper]

Our OL isn't coached to "push" its zone blocking that revolves around occupying defenders and angles. We dont push shit.

Do you think I don't know what a zone blocking scheme is, you still have to best the man in front or cut the next guy down the line. Sorry for use of the wrong terminology. We couldn't do that either. Nice try of picking out one small piece to attack, douchey response. And yes I know what a 3 technic is and so on, can you tell me what a man over scheme is or cover 3 and cover 4 or cover 0. What is the premise behind zone blitz package and when and why to use such? Who cares! The fact is the Oline at MSU has regressed since 2010. Badly, and it cost us and will eventually cost the coach with the best record at our school his job, and run our program right back to shat if it's not corrected.

[HSVDawg]

I think the secondary was far weaker than the oline. We finished 2nd in scoring offense in sec, 3rd in rushing offense in sec, and 7th in sacks allowed in sec. We finished 14th in sec in passing defense, 14th in passing plays over 20, 14th in passing plays over 30, 13th in passing plays over 40, and 14th in passing plays over 50

That's a fair argument. I would probably not include the whole secondary though. Probably just the safeties. Redmond and Calhoun were pretty solid for the most part.

[msstate7]

That's a fair argument. I would probably not include the whole secondary though. Probably just the safeties. Redmond and Calhoun were pretty solid for the most part.

I look at the secondary as a group. I don't separate them like I don't separate guards from tackles on the oline. I do believe you're correct on who pulled the secondary down as a group though

[Todd4State]

I agree about the OL as a whole, but the '14 OL was good enough to get us to the playoff if nothing else. We beat Bama and we are in the playoff that year. 2 redzone INT's, inability to contain Simms from scrambling on 3rd down twice on the final TD drive, and a questionable overturned fumble call all led to what was only a 6 point loss. OL wasn't dominate, but it wasn't the problem in that game or that year for the most part. I certainly consider that to be the exception rather than the rule for Hevesy though, so don't get it twisted.

If I remember correctly a BIG reason why we lost to Alabama and Ole Miss for that matter was because of our stupid 1B defense that we played just as much as the starters.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Do you think I don't know what a zone blocking scheme is, you still have to best the man in front or cut the next guy down the line. Sorry for use of the wrong terminology. We couldn't do that either. Nice try of picking out one small piece to attack, douchey response. And yes I know what a 3 technic is and so on, can you tell me what a man over scheme is or cover 3 and cover 4 or cover 0. What is the premise behind zone blitz package and when and why to use such? Who cares! The fact is the Oline at MSU has regressed since 2010. Badly, and it cost us and will eventually cost the coach with the best record at our school his job, and run our program right back to shat if it's not corrected.

All I know is what you said, Im not here to take measure of your football IQ. I see your terminology switched sides of the ball, cool. People keep talking about the best coach in school history. He is the ONLY coach we have had in the ESPN SECN contract money era. We don't know if anyone else could do better, but we do know HE can do better, and the fact that he hasn't, to me, is a fireable offense. Bosses dont fire people who are getting it done, employees, like Dan, fire themselves based on lack of production and effort.

[dawgday166]

If I remember correctly a BIG reason why we lost to Alabama and Ole Miss for that matter was because of our stupid 1B defense that we played just as much as the starters.

Defense didn't lose Bama game. They played lights out except for the 2 QB scrambles on drive that ended up winning the game. They only gave up 323 yds with 1 big play of 50 yds to Cooper. Cooper only had 88 yds receiving and he and Bama had been lighting everyone up in T-town. On the road they struggled but not in T-town.

While pass D wasn't that good statistically that year, most of the time they clamped down when they had to. Ole Miss was the exception to that one.

We got in hole early against Bama solely because of offensive mistakes in our own end.

Another thing that irritates me about Mullen. With a little over 5:30 something minutes left, we had gotten the ball somewhere around our own 25 or 30. We needed 2 scores. We used up 5 freakin minutes on that 1 drive. It was the damn slowest, most methodical drive I ever saw when a team needed to score quickly.

Mullen has no concept of time in his head or a 2 minute offense. Example: LSU last year. We were pretty methodical there too and then Mullen forgot how many timeouts we had.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

I agree with everything... Except the Arab position. We are loaded with talent there. It's not being utilized nor is it being coached up.

What is the Arab position?

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

We were a hardass team then. Great tough, dawg mentality. That team would steamroll this team. We had only one decent receiver in Bump, but we were tough as hell.

Not only were they tough, they were tired of getting their asses beat week in and week out because Croom was "doing things the right way". Some these guys we got now act like they made a trip to Atlanta or something. The 2014 team is responsible for the run to #1 and the 2016 team better realize pretty quickly that Dak ain't walking through that locker room door anytime soon and it's on them to make a name for this year.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I agree about the OL, CB, and WR depth...

I do think we have better talent at RB than we're showing- Aeris Williams seems like a good player and Nick Gibson needs to get on the field.

[Political Hack]

Yeah, he did. 2014 was his baby though. I'm not happy with Mullen at all right now, but reading this board you'd think he's done nothing since croom's talent left

His success here is undeniable, but we need to recognize what his ceiling is and what his weaknesses are. Unfortunately for him, everyone else knows his weaknesses now but he's refused to address them. That's a bad situation.

[preachermatt83]

What is the Arab position?

Hahaha!! My bad. RB position.

[dawgday166]

Hahaha!! My bad. RB position.

I thought it meant the guy sitting on the camel (Mullen) looking off into the distance for a water source, while all his coaches are circled around the camel and keep asking him if he sees any water.