OLE MISS should be celebrating today.

[cheewgumm]

Thie plan was the right one:

I summarize my thinking of what their plan is as...

"The NCAA does not care about cheating anymore, so it's time to strike while the iron is hot."

They are right.

[BeastMan]

Bingo. The NCAA currently has no teeth. It doesn't really matter if you commit infractions unless you are a glutton for punishment and want to tell on yourself. I have zero faith in the NCAA in doing anything.

Think about what we've seen lately. The Miami investigation completely botched. Manziel gets half a game for tens of thousands. 180k Cam Newton. But then they'll suspend a womens golfer for using campus hose to wash her car. They'll rule a marine war vet ineligible. Will Redmond gets a year and a half...

From this point on, I don't give a shit because it doesn't do any good.

[CJDAWG85]

They are in the same boat we are although their massive ego's say different... If something is found or they are dumb enough to turn themselves in, they will get punished just like us.

[Bubb Rubb]

Bingo. The NCAA currently has no teeth. It doesn't really matter if you commit infractions unless you are a glutton for punishment and want to tell on yourself. I have zero faith in the NCAA in doing anything.

Think about what we've seen lately. The Miami investigation completely botched. Manziel gets half a game for tens of thousands. 180k Cam Newton. But then they'll suspend a womens golfer for using campus hose to wash her car. They'll rule a marine war vet ineligible. Will Redmond gets a year and a half...

From this point on, I don't give a shit because it doesn't do any good.

I'm not making excuses for the NCAA, but I want to mention a couple of things:

The Miami thing was botched....but Miami pretty severely penalized themselves and the NCAA accepted that punishment.

Manziel is getting off because they believe he didn't get paid.

Newton got off because they didn't believe he knew about his dad's deal.

The Marine vet was ultimately allowed to play.

Redmond got 18 months because that's basically what we gave ourselves.

We have nobody to blame but our own compliance department over the Redmond deal.

I still think Ole Miss is in a heap of trouble if anything of substance is dug up.

[smootness]

I'm not making excuses for the NCAA, but I want to mention a couple of things:

The Miami thing was botched....but Miami pretty severely penalized themselves and the NCAA accepted that punishment.

Manziel is getting off because they believe he didn't get paid.

Newton got off because they didn't believe he knew about his dad's deal.

The Marine vet was ultimately allowed to play.

Redmond got 18 months because that's basically what we gave ourselves.

We have nobody to blame but our own compliance department over the Redmond deal.

I still think Ole Miss is in a heap of trouble if anything of substance is dug up.

All you really said here is that the NCAA selectively enforces its own rules. There was no 'Cam Newton loophole'. The NCAA made it up as a way to not have to sit the Heisman frontrunner and ruin the season.

They just 'investigated' Manziel for 2 weeks and decided they can't prove he took money. Well, they didn't need proof on Renardo Sidney. In the Sidney case, they made up their mind that they wanted to hammer a kid that had rumors around him, so they trumped up some stuff (they said he lied about not receiving an impermissible benefit but couldn't prove he actually did receive the benefit and made him re-pay every amount that was received by his AAU team that his dad couldn't prove he spent on normal team expenses; so they made him prove he wasn't guilty).

A judge in CA ruled that the NCAA acted maliciously in the USC/Reggie Bush case based on emails sent by NCAA staffers calling USC coaches various names, yet the NCAA has so far been able to keep those records sealed.

The bottom line is, the NCAA decides ahead of time what they want the result to be, and they figure out a way to get themselves there. They knew they didn't want to rule Manziel ineligible or make him sit for an extended length, but they knew they couldn't do nothing, so they threw out some random rule and gave him a slap on the wrist.

But they definitely do have teeth, and they will hammer you if they want to. They just decide for themselves when it's time to do that.

[gravedigger]

Smootness, I echo your sentiments and will add that there are too many forces with too much money at stake to allow a Manziel to miss too much action this year. TV contracts are based on marquee teams and players. Those teams and players WILL be in the spotlight no matter what some hardass at the ncaa wants to do.

Now, until MSU becomes a marquee team, we are subject to hammering. So is Ole Miss and so is any team that they can do without for a year or two.

Now, if you want to throw penn state up, you know better. Completely exceptional case. USC might be a better argument, but fact is, they had their run and the west coast just doesn't garner the national spotlight in football to worry too much about it. Plus, they have Oregon and Stanford.

The NCAA isn't going away. Primarily because our schools ARE the ncaa. There have to be rules and the only way the schools are going to be governed is by themselves. End of story.

I'd love to see UM get complacent about the investigation. It will bite them in the ass. They are the easiest target in the ncaa because their whole image is one that is easy to vilify.

Manziel was worth too much money. Compare him to the economy crash of 2008. He, and thereby A&M, are business that had to be bailed out for fear of the economic ramifications.

This isn't a democracy, courtroom, or anything of the sort. It's survival of the fittest.

Manziel, A&M (this year) and Bama are what Nietzsche would call "Übermensch".

[Coach34]

USC and Ohio State beg to differ that the NCAA has no teeth- and they are two of the NCAA's golden children

[ckDOG]

In the event there is no evidence linking you to an infraction, lessons learned are

1) do not cooperate with the ncaa
2) do not turn yourself in

1 is forgivable if you you think they are on to something. 2 is for morons.

If the ncaa has dirt on you, they will nail you. Otherwise, "wasn't me" is the only approach.

[PassInterference]

According to Wyatt, here is what happened...

1. The Mainziel trademarked "Johnny Football".

2. The autograph brokers suddenly couldn't sell all the stuff JF had already autographed due to trademark issues.

3. The autograph brokers got pissed, and fired a warning shot about going public about the autographs.

OK, all that is well known except possibly the mood of the brokers and their ability to sell through trademark issues. I find it all believable. And I think the brokers probably are forcing the JF family to loosen up on the trademark think so they can sell the autographs. The leverage here is that the brokers could take the next step and prove JF accepted money.

That part is my speculation based on the tried and true investigative method called "follow the money".

[Cato]

OK, first post. Read at this site because it has by far the best info. Don't post because I really don't know enough to add much.

That said, dumb question. Is it possible for the SEC pres to come together and all of them just pull out of the NCAA? Even if that was plausible, I am sure the bigger schools that never get hurt would not do that. But what would be the downside? Money loss? Does the SEC have enough clout now to just do their own NCAA type deal? I am sick of all the hypocrisy coming from the NCAA.

[PassInterference]

I think the SEC would not do that alone. But recently, the SEC commish and one or two other big conference commish's made some public comments which pretty much said the current form of the NCCA does not meet the needs of the big conferences. It was a political wasy of saying "we're pulling out because you are no longer relevant".

Almost immeidately, the NCAA pres came out and said that the NCAA is amenable to rearranging things to make it more modern, etc.

I think the NCAA will fade away within a few years. Probably after the college football playoff takes off and makes a hundred zillion dollars.

[Saltydog]

nt

[PassInterference]

Because JF should have been more proactive to stop someone else from making money on his autograph (seriously, that's the reason).

JF should have tried harder to prevent those guys from profiting on him. Maybe he should have trademarked the "Johnny Football" name. Wait..

[QuadrupleOption]

All you really said here is that the NCAA selectively enforces its own rules. There was no 'Cam Newton loophole'. The NCAA made it up as a way to not have to sit the Heisman frontrunner and ruin the season.

They just 'investigated' Manziel for 2 weeks and decided they can't prove he took money. Well, they didn't need proof on Renardo Sidney. In the Sidney case, they made up their mind that they wanted to hammer a kid that had rumors around him, so they trumped up some stuff (they said he lied about not receiving an impermissible benefit but couldn't prove he actually did receive the benefit and made him re-pay every amount that was received by his AAU team that his dad couldn't prove he spent on normal team expenses; so they made him prove he wasn't guilty).

A judge in CA ruled that the NCAA acted maliciously in the USC/Reggie Bush case based on emails sent by NCAA staffers calling USC coaches various names, yet the NCAA has so far been able to keep those records sealed.

The bottom line is, the NCAA decides ahead of time what they want the result to be, and they figure out a way to get themselves there. They knew they didn't want to rule Manziel ineligible or make him sit for an extended length, but they knew they couldn't do nothing, so they threw out some random rule and gave him a slap on the wrist.

But they definitely do have teeth, and they will hammer you if they want to. They just decide for themselves when it's time to do that.

Renardo lawyered up, and that lawyer refused to allow his client to cooperate with an NCAA investigation. The NCAA does not put up with that shit. Renardo's long-term suspension was at LEAST 50% Renardo's fault.

[smootness]

Renardo lawyered up, and that lawyer refused to allow his client to cooperate with an NCAA investigation. The NCAA does not put up with that shit. Renardo's long-term suspension was at LEAST 50% Renardo's fault.

But all I've heard on State boards everywhere is that this is exactly what we need to do. And it has some merit, it has worked at times.

You just have to make sure you don't do it at a time when the NCAA decides they don't need proof of anything. They didn't really find proof on Sidney; they basically hammered him because a) he couldn't prove he didn't receive benefits and b) he lied when he told them he didn't receive benefits. So they decided in their own mind he was guilty, made him prove he wasn't, and hammered him when he couldn't.

But others have not cooperated and received essentially nothing. Well, I guess what you have to do is give the appearance of cooperation (Auburn/Cam Newton) while claimining innocence and not giving them the information they are asking for.

[Jack Lambert]

USC and Ohio State beg to differ that the NCAA has no teeth- and they are two of the NCAA's golden children

To go along with that statement Ohio State gambled that the NCAA was going to go light on them so they did not voluntary take a bowl band when they were 6 and 6. Then the very next year after the NCAA did give them a bowl band they went undefeated and missed out on the NC game.

ONe thing about Miami they have voluntary banned them self from bowl games for two years. They have taken their punishment. I just wonder if they will go to a bowl this year?

[maroonmania]

But all I've heard on State boards everywhere is that this is exactly what we need to do. And it has some merit, it has worked at times.

You just have to make sure you don't do it at a time when the NCAA decides they don't need proof of anything. They didn't really find proof on Sidney; they basically hammered him because a) he couldn't prove he didn't receive benefits and b) he lied when he told them he didn't receive benefits. So they decided in their own mind he was guilty, made him prove he wasn't, and hammered him when he couldn't.

But others have not cooperated and received essentially nothing. Well, I guess what you have to do is give the appearance of cooperation (Auburn/Cam Newton) while claimining innocence and not giving them the information they are asking for.

The big issue with Sidney was his family wouldn't turn over bank records that the NCAA requested. The NCAA essentially used that to say he was guilty. Can't remember what all the Newtons were asked for but they didn't refuse to turn over anything that I remember. Of course the Newtons and Auburn were probably smart enough to make the deal in such a way that big wads of money didn't suddenly show up in their personal bank accounts.