I want some of your opinions on a baseball question...

[CadaverDawg]

As you probably have seen, I am very aggravated with Cohen's continually batting Pirtle at cleanup. I see no circumstances on Earth that should call for him to be in the cleanup spot in our order.

Am I overreacting? Some people are actually defending it on SPS, but I think we have way too many options to have to settle for Pirtle behind Renfroe.

I even propose that if we are hell bent and determined to put Pirtle high up in the lineup, let's put him at #2 or #3 ahead of Renfroe so he will see better pitches to hit. Not behind Renfroe, where everyone will walk Renfroe to get to Pirtle in any key situation. And I'm not saying it HAS to be Rea behind Renfroe, but we need a RBI guy behind him....a Rea, Porter, Detz, or even Slauter. Someone that can find a gap and hit with a little power every now and then.

Pirtle has greatly improved from earlier this year. But a cleanup hitter he is not. It has to be all about matchups in Cohen's brain, right? He can't truly think Pirtle is a cleanup hitter? I feel like there should be way more people feeling the same way about this, so maybe I'm losing my mind. But I see that as the only flaw in our lineups right now.

Thoughts?

[Will James]

Cleanup gets the most AB's with runners on base. That is not debatable but a proven fact. That's why I want Fraz Pirt Detz Renfroe

Id like for Wes or Porter to be there at 5th or if Cohen insists on hitting Renfroe 3rd Rea/Porter needs to
Clean up

[Coach34]

Pirtle is a better option batting 4th than Detz- Pirtle has more power

I'd personally like to see Porter or Rea there- but at least he finally moved Detz out of that spot

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Where does the rea love come from? Slauter makes way better contact. Id bat him 4th before rea.

Hell, florida intentionally walked slauter today when they didnt have to. Says how well they think he is seeing the ball

[CadaverDawg]

Cleanup gets the most AB's with runners on base. That is not debatable but a proven fact. That's why I want Fraz Pirt Detz Renfroe

Id like for Wes or Porter to be there at 5th or if Cohen insists on hitting Renfroe 3rd Rea/Porter needs to
Clean up

But never Pirtle at cleanup right?

[msstate7]

Pirtle is a better option batting 4th than Detz- Pirtle has more power

I'd personally like to see Porter or Rea there- but at least he finally moved Detz out of that spot

Don't think you have to worry about detz hitting anywhere but 2nd now. He's had a very nice series there

[CadaverDawg]

Pirtle is a better option batting 4th than Detz- Pirtle has more power

I'd personally like to see Porter or Rea there- but at least he finally moved Detz out of that spot

I disagree with Pirtle over Detz in the 4 hole. I don't want either batting cleanup, but if I had to choose I would easily choose Detz over Pirtle. It's not all about HR's to me in the 4 hole. I want a good RBI guy. Pirtle doesn't have "power" in my opinion. I know he hit 2 HR's this year, but they were down the line. Bradford hit one too, but I don't consider him to have power. Detz has much better gap power from what I've seen.

But like I said, I would rather see Renfroe, Rea, Porter, or even Slauter at cleanup than probably Detz or Pirtle.

[AlSwearengen]

Were the starting pitchers for florida the first two days right handers? What is Slaughter's avg. vs. right handers? And Rea's vs. right handers? How is Rea handling the curve ball from righties this year? I know last year he was totally lost against the curve from a righty. Pirtle is a switch hitter and Cohen loves it for matchup purposes.

I think Cohen overmanages a little bit. But at the same time, Renfroe is the only "scary" hitter that we have. Rea could end up being a "scary" hitter before he is done, but I'm sure he still has holes in his swing.

[Coach34]

Detz is a singles hitter that may find a gap from time to time. Pirtle could hit 4-5 HR's a season....I dont want either there- but Pirtle is a better option than Detz. Hell, Pirtle is 4-9 hitting there these two games. We've had much worse.

I'm loving Detz at 2 right now- I think that is going to get us going

[Todd4State]

Problem is Rea isn't hitting home runs and Norris has been a bust. Rea will hit some sooner than later. Trust me- the power is there. I've seen him hit a 92 mph fastball off the back of the bullpen at Trustmark Park.

I don't particularly care for Pirtle at clean up either, but we seem to be hitting a little bit better lately.

[Requiem For A Dawg]

This is your second thread about this today. You are beating the hell out of this dead horse.

[CadaverDawg]

This is your second thread about this today. You are beating the hell out of this dead horse.

Apparently some^^ are interested in discussing. And you bumped it back to the top. Feel free not to read this thread or post in it if you don't want to visit the "dead horse".

[Requiem For A Dawg]

Apparently some^^ are interested in discussing. And you bumped it back to the top. Feel free not to read this thread or post in it if you don't want to visit the "dead horse".

I don't have a problem discussing this. It just seems you just want to bitch constantly about it, and have no idea what you even think on the matter.

Example: At 9:50 you post this on here:

"And I'm not saying it HAS to be Rea behind Renfroe, but we need a RBI guy behind him."

Then about 20 minutes later you post this:

"It is very clear that Rea should be in the 4 hole over Pirtle. It's not even close to being an argument."

Looks to me like you are just bitching to bitch. The least you could do is have the same opinion in a 30 minute time span.

[BogeyGolfer]

You can put him 6-9 spot...either way you know what he brings to the table. I want to see more of Porter.

[maroonmania]

I've literally given up trying to figure out some of the things Cohen does. The repeated playing of Sam Frost at 3rd has left me bewildered at what goes through Cohen's mind. But you know, after a season and a half of botched throws to first Frost has actually had a very good weekend playing over there so who knows. Maybe if Cohen KEEPS putting Pirtle in the cleanup spot he will eventually turn into the next Will Clark, or maybe not. Point is, I've seen enough of Cohen's headscratching decisions to know if I stew over them too much I will just give myself useless stress.

[The Croom Diaries]

I've literally given up trying to figure out some of the things Cohen does. The repeated playing of Sam Frost at 3rd has left me bewildered at what goes through Cohen's mind. But you know, after a season and a half of botched throws to first Frost has actually had a very good weekend playing over there so who knows. Maybe if Cohen KEEPS putting Pirtle in the cleanup spot he will eventually turn into the next Will Clark, or maybe not. Point is, I've seen enough of Cohen's headscratching decisions to know if I stew over them too much I will just give myself useless stress.

Perfect statement. Cohen seems to be hell bent on not doing anything conventional. Starting Frost yesterday, vs. a lefty, with a groundball pitcher like Graveman on the hill (he is tied for the team lead in errors with ONLY 46 chances this year and had FIFTEEN errors last year) is mind boggling. Pirtle hitting cleanup just adds to the list, but his moves seem to work just as much as they fail.

I think Renfroe should be hitting cleanup, but it's apparent at this point that Cohen isn't going back to that, so it's important to put someone behind him that will protect him. To me, that's got to be Rea. A pitcher will be more inclined to walk Renfroe with Pirtle behind him because there isn't as much fear he may launch one into the trees as if Rea were up there. Rea presents the biggest threat to do major damage if you walk Renfroe - Pirtle might single up the middle - I say this full well knowing Rea's slugging % is only .418, but he's 6'-5" 270 so there is a fear factor rather than Pirtle's 5'-9" 170 (and .386 slugging). I'm sure Cohen likes him hitting 4th because he's a switch hitter so late in the game there won't be back-to-back righties in the middle of the lineup - although we've had back-to-back lefties at the front of the lineup all year so I don't know what difference it makes.

[Coach34]

The key to any line-up we have is 1 and 2. Those guys have to get on base to set the table for whomever is hitting behind them. If they are getting on consistently, then that takes options away from other teams on pitching around Renfroe. Frazier and CT havent been getting on base in SEC play- and that has been killing any kind of offense that we may generate

I think Frazier will get going, and Detz behind him will pay dividends. Detz gets on base- and thats what you need in that spot.

[The Croom Diaries]

The key to any line-up we have is 1 and 2. Those guys have to get on base to set the table for whomever is hitting behind them. If they are getting on consistently, then that takes options away from other teams on pitching around Renfroe. Frazier and CT havent been getting on base in SEC play- and that has been killing any kind of offense that we may generate

I think Frazier will get going, and Detz behind him will pay dividends. Detz gets on base- and thats what you need in that spot.

Right, but if 1st base is open (i.e. Detz doubles) they are still most likely going to walk Hunter, especially with Pirtle behind him. He is the guy with the biggest stick so we need him to hit. If Rea was behind him in that situation they'd probably think twice about walking him knowing he's got serious potential to park one and really make you pay for pitching around Renfroe. They know Pirtle is only going to hit one out if he hits it right on the money - he is a Frazier/Bradford type hitter who has just squared a couple up this year.

[mic]

Coach is right the key in baseball is the 1-2 hitters getting on. It doesnt matter then who bat 3 or 4.. Here is the thing is there an unanimous decission on who should bat clean up.. NO.. we have won our last 4 games with this line up. Pirtle has done fine with this role. Peolpe want more power there. Well who is that besides Renfroe. ?? best 2 options for that would be Rae who strikes out way too much and is very very slow and Porter who cant seem to crack the line up. (thats the one that I dont really get)
Pirtle can protect Renfroe just as good as anyone plus and a big plus he is a switch hitter so there is no lefty lefty or righty righy matchup behind Renfroe. and he has pretty good wheels.. and as much as I dont like Frost at third he has had a decent series and played a very good in the field at 3rd.

[Will James]

Detz doubling would be a good 'problem' to deal with.

However hes gotten 9 XBH on the year, and gotten on first 57 times. I'll take either. But I've been saying all year he needs to hit directly in front of Renfroe, wherever Renfroe is in the order, because of his on-base-potential.

The continued absence of Porter is ridiculous though. Somebody has to go, and that somebody is Frost.

[Will James]

It doesnt matter then who bat 3 or 4.

Diasgree..

[Coach34]

Right, but if 1st base is open (i.e. Detz doubles).

We've played 11 SEC games- and I think Detz has 1 double in those 11 games. That's not a real big concern for me at this point

[mic]

Detz is where he should be.. draws alot walks (Im sure team leader) and gets on base..

[mic]

and back to the 4 hole.. Until Rae can pass Pritle in the HR department both have 2 it really doesnt matter. and I think Pritle has more extra bases than Rae.. And like i said with his speed he has half dozen bags so far better chance to drive in renfroe with 2 outs than Wes he def puts the ball in play more.. Rae missed some games and some AB's early in the season which hurt so maybe he will get hot and start showing more power then Im all far him in the 4 hole.. And u cant put Slaughter there he doesnt play every game and when Nick plays he def isnt a 4 hole guy. A better arguement to me is putting Wes at 5 and Bradford at 6..

[engie]

Right, but if 1st base is open (i.e. Detz doubles) they are still most likely going to walk Hunter, especially with Pirtle behind him. He is the guy with the biggest stick so we need him to hit. If Rea was behind him in that situation they'd probably think twice about walking him knowing he's got serious potential to park one and really make you pay for pitching around Renfroe. They know Pirtle is only going to hit one out if he hits it right on the money - he is a Frazier/Bradford type hitter who has just squared a couple up this year.

This is a two-edged sword.

If Detz doubles and Renfroe is coming up, they are likely to put him on no matter who is hitting behind him right now. He's simply "that much" better than our next best hitter. For every bit more likely that Rea is to really drive a ball, he's also far, far more likely to K or GDP, whereas Pirtle is less likely to K or GDP, but also less likely to really drive one. It's pick your poison at that point. Either way, a single scores the run right there.

Left field is a way bigger problem than 3b is for us offensively. Our two starters in left have a combined 2 doubles in 127 ab's -- Frost has 2 2b and a 3b in 39 ab's...

IMO, we should be practicing both Detz and Frost out there right now. If Detz is anything better than a total liability out there, he should be starting in left with Porter DHing...

[WPDawg]

Have we tried Porter batting cleanup this year? What are our liablities with Porter or Detz in LF which allows them both to be in the batting lineup?

[maroonmania]

and back to the 4 hole.. Until Rae can pass Pritle in the HR department both have 2 it really doesnt matter. and I think Pritle has more extra bases than Rae.. And like i said with his speed he has half dozen bags so far better chance to drive in renfroe with 2 outs than Wes he def puts the ball in play more.. Rae missed some games and some AB's early in the season which hurt so maybe he will get hot and start showing more power then Im all far him in the 4 hole.. And u cant put Slaughter there he doesnt play every game and when Nick plays he def isnt a 4 hole guy. A better arguement to me is putting Wes at 5 and Bradford at 6..

I'm OK with your general point, and given Pirtle's improvement at the plate I can live with him at 4th I guess, but I just don't see equating the "potential" of Rea to hit a HR with Pirtle. First, Rea has probably played in less than half of our games so he's way behind most of our regulars in ABs and is just now getting into the swing of things. Also, I know one of Pirtle's HRs was against a SWAC opponent. If I am playing MSU I would definitely consider Rea as much more of a HR threat than Pirtle. Of course, by the same token, Rea is also much more of a double play candidate than Pirtle would be.