Just got back.............

[Liverpooldawg]

I stayed till the end. My observations

The good:
Kickoffs and punts.

The adequate:
The defensive front. They weren't great, but they were serviceable and there were a few bright spots there. They did have a couple of glaring missed tackles.

The bad:
The offensive line. Same song as last year, they were barely adequate on pass blocking and the run blocking was horrible.
The quarterbacks. Fitz was very hesitant and didn't look sure of himself at all. He was thinking and then doing it appeared to me. Williams was better, but only relative to Fitz. He can't throw the deep ball. He ain't Dak running but he did make a few big plays running. He wasn't that accurate in the short and middle distance passing game, but that ain't all his fault. In fact I would say it mostly wasn't his fault. More later on that.
The running backs. Shump has no business on the field, not even in short yardage. Holloway is what he is. Williams looked fair, compared to those two. Mixon showed a few flashes.

The atrocious:
The receivers. Perhaps the most disappointing unit of all. I thought they were going to be good but they aren't. We basically had NO open receivers all day long. They were not getting any separation at all. I don't know if they are just slow or if they don't run good routes, or both. I am afraid it's both
The defensive back field. We knew we were in trouble here when the corners went down in preseason but good lord, they were awful. There isn't much else to be said, they were just awful.
The FG kicking. He made two nice ones but the two 4th quarter misses cancel that out. The last one is one you HAVE to make. That was chip shot even for him

Some more observations: 1) Mullen should have kept running the ball prior to the first FG attempt in the first quarter. Still, this was South Alabama. It really shouldn't have mattered what we did. 2) We just look SLOW all the way around. 3)The leadership factor (as in losing the unquestioned leader DAK) is looking big. It was glaringly absent. We had guys standing around looking at each other and wondering who was going to step up. Nobody really did. It looked like Damian Williams did just a bit on that last drive, then we missed the FG. 4) I'm not sure this is fixable. The stuff that was wrong looked to be fundamental, not minor. I said going in I would be happy with 6-6. That ain't gonna happen. Right now I see two games that could go either way. The rest are losses. Hopefully they will suck it up and start making plays, instead of looking for someone to make them. If that happens we might pick up a couple more. It's going to be an ugly year even if they do.

Fire away.

[Rick Danko]

Pretty spot on

[defiantdog]

Lewis will step up on defense and take over as the vocal force. R Brown better get his shit together. Fred Ross will become a vocal leader in the huddle. A lot guys already look up to him. I expect him to take over vocally.

[Tbonewannabe]

We didn't have guys wide open like South Alabama had. It was depressing seeing us not able to run on that Dline. That is probably one of if not the least talented front we will run against this year. We won't have a 100 yard rusher in a game unless someone breaks one for 70 on one play.

[ShotgunDawg]

I disagree that we looked slow. I actually think we have good team speed & poor instincts.

We will get better. We are having to reinvent ourselves & find a new source of leadership. Today was unacceptable, but I still think we develop into a decent team as the year progresses.

If you think about it:

In 2010 with team that blew out Michigan, we beat UAB 29-24
in 2011 we beat LA Tech 26-20
in 2012 we beat Troy 30-24
in 2013 we beat Bowling Green 21-20
in 2014 (Team that was #1) we beat UAB 47-34
in 2015 we were down double digits to LA Tech in the first half

Point is, as bad as today was, it was bound to happen at some point. As bad as we played & as bad as this team may be, that statistics finally caught up with us. We've had really good teams that have had dog fights with these sorts of team over the years, only to win by the hair of our chinny chin chin. This time it caught up with us.

The key for this team is circling the wagons & finding a way to win 6 games, get to a bowl game, & build towards another year of competing for the West

[MetEdDawg]

This is the problem I have with QB battles. When you do this you are telling your team you don't have a clearly defined leader. It's one thing to have a battle. But to not name a starter until game day literally has zero upside. It's damaging and I haven't ever seen us play well when we do that crap.

[defiantdog]

I disagree that we looked slow. I actually think we have good team speed & poor instincts.

We will get better. We are having to reinvent ourselves & find a new source of leadership. Today was unacceptable, but I still think we develop into a decent team as the year progresses.

If you think about it:

In 2010 with team that blew out Michigan, we beat UAB 29-24
in 2011 we beat LA Tech 26-20
in 2012 we beat Troy 30-24
in 2013 we beat Bowling Green 21-20
in 2014 (Team that was #1) we beat UAB 47-34
in 2015 we were down double digits to LA Tech in the first half

Point is, as bad as today was, it was bound to happen. As bad as we played & as bad as this team may be, that statistics finally caught up with us. We've had really good teams that have had dog fights with these sorts of team over the years, only to win by the hair of our chinny chin chin. This time it caught up with us.

The key for this team is circling the wagons & finding a way to win 6 games, get to a bowl game, & build towards another year of competing for the West

You sound like Engie now

[Coach007]

Totally disagree with the recievers. They were open. Twisting backwards to try to get a pass on every throw is never going to produce great results. Serval passes were in the ground.

[ShotgunDawg]

You sound like Engie now

Well, my post is true. The only difference between today & past years was the final score board. We've played shitty against non-conference opponents for years now only to find a way &, at times, get lucky and win.

It caught up with us like it was bound to do at some point.

[Csdog]

I agree with what you said IF you are saying that the entire secondary was awful. Not just the CBs.Also,we won't beat anybody with Williams at QB. He may be the best we have,I don't know. But we don't have enough offensive weapons to win with a game manager who cannot stretch the field

[Tbonewannabe]

Totally disagree with the recievers. They were open. Twisting backwards to try to get a pass on every throw is never going to produce great results. Serval passes were in the ground.

Worst QB since Tyson Lee.

[gravedigger]

Well, my post is true. The only difference between today & past years was the final score board. We've played shitty against non-conference opponents for years now only to find a way &, at times, get lucky and win.

It caught up with us like it was bound to do at some point.

I don't usually agree with you but you are correct. From a tv perspective, and that is often skewed, he looked confused (dan mullen)

[Liverpooldawg]

Totally disagree with the recievers. They were open. Twisting backwards to try to get a pass on every throw is never going to produce great results. Serval passes were in the ground.

I never saw any that were really open. I agree that the throws weren't great but we weren't getting open either.

[defiantdog]

Well, my post is true. The only difference between today & past years was the final score board. We've played shitty against non-conference opponents for years now only to find a way &, at times, get lucky and win.

It caught up with us like it was bound to do at some point.
Not saying it was a bad thing, but you just pumped out a bunch of stats right quick.

I never saw any that were really open. I agree that the throws weren't great but we weren't getting open either.
The throws were attrocious. It's sad when announcers can't tell what receiver he was throwing to. We need a qb that wants the job. We don't need this nervous crap.

[DudyDawg]

I was worried about our receivers bc of a lack of a big red zone target. Now I'm worried we won't get in the red zone against good teams

[Liverpooldawg]

I was worried about our receivers bc of a lack of a big red zone target. Now I'm worried we won't get in the red zone against good teams

We better get a little separation or it won't matter what part of the field we try to throw it from.

[Coach007]

I never saw any that were really open. I agree that the throws weren't great but we weren't getting open either.

#5 tried to dig the pass off the ground. He threw in to triple coverage several times.


Like I said, we expected to have a down year. This isn't down. This is pathetic. There is zero good things to say about today imo.

It wasn't just the OL blocking. Shump missed countless blocks and he is a senior!

[BoomBoom]

I stayed till the end. My observations

The good:
Kickoffs and punts.

The adequate:
The defensive front. They weren't great, but they were serviceable and there were a few bright spots there. They did have a couple of glaring missed tackles.

The bad:
The offensive line. Same song as last year, they were barely adequate on pass blocking and the run blocking was horrible.
The quarterbacks. Fitz was very hesitant and didn't look sure of himself at all. He was thinking and then doing it appeared to me. Williams was better, but only relative to Fitz. He can't throw the deep ball. He ain't Dak running but he did make a few big plays running. He wasn't that accurate in the short and middle distance passing game, but that ain't all his fault. In fact I would say it mostly wasn't his fault. More later on that.
The running backs. Shump has no business on the field, not even in short yardage. Holloway is what he is. Williams looked fair, compared to those two. Mixon showed a few flashes.

The atrocious:
The receivers. Perhaps the most disappointing unit of all. I thought they were going to be good but they aren't. We basically had NO open receivers all day long. They were not getting any separation at all. I don't know if they are just slow or if they don't run good routes, or both. I am afraid it's both
The defensive back field. We knew we were in trouble here when the corners went down in preseason but good lord, they were awful. There isn't much else to be said, they were just awful.
The FG kicking. He made two nice ones but the two 4th quarter misses cancel that out. The last one is one you HAVE to make. That was chip shot even for him

Some more observations: 1) Mullen should have kept running the ball prior to the first FG attempt in the first quarter. Still, this was South Alabama. It really shouldn't have mattered what we did. 2) We just look SLOW all the way around. 3)The leadership factor (as in losing the unquestioned leader DAK) is looking big. It was glaringly absent. We had guys standing around looking at each other and wondering who was going to step up. Nobody really did. It looked like Damian Williams did just a bit on that last drive, then we missed the FG. 4) I'm not sure this is fixable. The stuff that was wrong looked to be fundamental, not minor. I said going in I would be happy with 6-6. That ain't gonna happen. Right now I see two games that could go either way. The rest are losses. Hopefully they will suck it up and start making plays, instead of looking for someone to make them. If that happens we might pick up a couple more. It's going to be an ugly year even if they do.

Fire away.

The trends continue, as they tend to. But we were terrible decades ago, so screw it, right?

[Bucky Dog]

Damian is not our QB!! He can't be. He is serviceable at best, has no idea how to throw the ball to a spot and holds onto it way too long. He took a 10 yard sack on third down which made Graves attempt a 44 yd instead of 34 yard FG! Not smart.
All Westin Graves has to do is make a 28 harder!!
Our secondary is horrible and can't cover my mom.
Our O line is pathetic, and can't block my mom.
Our receivers cannot separate from coverage.
As mentioned, Shump isn't an SEC RB.

[Liverpooldawg]

The trends continue, as they tend to. But we were terrible decades ago, so screw it, right?

Not taking the bait here boom.

[BoomBoom]

Not taking the bait here boom.

It's not bait, it's calling you out for a terrible position made all the more obvious today. If you're not moving forward then you're falling behind. Yalls complacent position was satisfied with not moving forward, and now we've fallen behind friggin South Alabama. My position is the same as before: confront Mullen with his flaws, and demand he do something about them. If he refuses, show him the door. You were steadfastly against that. How about now?

[Liverpooldawg]

It's not bait, it's calling you out for a terrible position made all the more obvious today. If you're not moving forward then you're falling behind. Yalls complacent position was satisfied with not moving forward, and now we've fallen behind friggin South Alabama. My position is the same as before: confront Mullen with his flaws, and demand he do something about them. If he refuses, show him the door. You were steadfastly against that. How about now?

Same as I did before. You don't actually know how I really feel about Mullen because I've never posted it, and never will. These boards are public and DO affect things. I've been around a LOT of football boom, not just MSU. There are things I like about Mullen and things I don't. That goes for every coach I've ever been around. There have been things I HATED (football wise) about some damn good ones. One win doesn't make one, neither does one loss. You judge them by what they are doing for the program overall over time. So far I back Mullen to the hilt, even if I think he has flaws (I've never seen a coach that didn't). Now if days like today happen too often, then that will change AT THE APPROPIATE TIME. This is the first one since he has been here. I'm talking about BAD losses. The best coach I have ever been around got beat by 50 by one of the worst programs in his league. He won it all, AGAIN, a few years later. Let's see how it plays out. By the way, my original post had more than a few flaws listed, wouldn't you think?

[Todd4State]

I never saw any that were really open. I agree that the throws weren't great but we weren't getting open either.

One reason to throw deep is to back the defensive backs up a little bit. Even if you don't complete it the threat of it helps some.

[Todd4State]

Same as I did before. You don't actually know how I really feel about Mullen because I've never posted it, and never will. These boards are public and DO affect things. I've been around a LOT of football boom, not just MSU. There are things I like about Mullen and things I don't. That goes for every coach I've ever been around. There have been things I HATED (football wise) about some damn good ones. One win doesn't make one, neither does one loss. You judge them by what they are doing for the program overall over time. So far I back Mullen to the hilt, even if I think he has flaws (I've never seen a coach that didn't). Now if days like today happen too often, then that will change AT THE APPROPIATE TIME. This is the first one since he has been here. I'm talking about BAD losses. The best coach I have ever been around got beat by 50 by one of the worst programs in his league. He won it all, AGAIN, a few years later. Let's see how it plays out. By the way, my original post had more than a few flaws listed, wouldn't you think?

The problem with Dan is he is arrogant and doesn't like to or want to change. That's why we can't give him a long amount of time to "turn things around". People like him do not change usually. The other more troublesome thing is he appears to not care and possibly want out. Usually people like that in any profession are going to be unproductive until they change for their sake as much as anything.

[Todd4State]

The trends continue, as they tend to. But we were terrible decades ago, so screw it, right?

If anything our history says we hold on to coaches way too long. The first one we really fired appropriately was Croom and lo and behold the turnaround was minimal.

[BoomBoom]

Same as I did before. You don't actually know how I really feel about Mullen because I've never posted it, and never will. These boards are public and DO affect things. I've been around a LOT of football boom, not just MSU. There are things I like about Mullen and things I don't. That goes for every coach I've ever been around. There have been things I HATED (football wise) about some damn good ones. One win doesn't make one, neither does one loss. You judge them by what they are doing for the program overall over time. So far I back Mullen to the hilt, even if I think he has flaws (I've never seen a coach that didn't). Now if days like today happen too often, then that will change AT THE APPROPIATE TIME. This is the first one since he has been here. I'm talking about BAD losses. The best coach I have ever been around got beat by 50 by one of the worst programs in his league. He won it all, AGAIN, a few years later. Let's see how it plays out. By the way, my original post had more than a few flaws listed, wouldn't you think?

And that's the problem. You can't wait until the bad losses have piled up. You have to anticipate. And every coach has flaws, but the good ones recognize.them and strive to minimize them. The ones that cant recognize their flaws NEVER succeed for long.

[Liverpooldawg]

The problem with Dan is he is arrogant and doesn't like to or want to change. That's why we can't give him a long amount of time to "turn things around". People like him do not change usually. The other more troublesome thing is he appears to not care and possibly want out. Usually people like that in any profession are going to be unproductive until they change for their sake as much as anything.

I don't think anybody outside of Mullen and his close circle really knows about how much he cares. Now my experience with coaches I have actually known is that even the BAD ones care. They may not show it like YOU or I would, but they care a great deal. As for arrogance, I wouldn't want one that didn't have a touch of that. Preferably he would have MORE than a touch. The thing about that change thing is it takes care of itself. If it ain't working they either change or they get fired. It's been working pretty well. You CAN'T discount winning 19 games in two yeas at MSU, no matter how much we would ALL like to have a history that would make that not the case. If that changes then things will take care of themselves, one way or another.

[RougeDawg]

Well, my post is true. The only difference between today & past years was the final score board. We've played shitty against non-conference opponents for years now only to find a way &, at times, get lucky and win.

It caught up with us like it was bound to do at some point.

There is one reason we play shitty against these type of teams. It's our HC. He treats these games as gimmies and sure wins and likes to tinker and her cute. Up until today he has been able to eek out each of them.

As for the team the WR's were bad. I saw shit routes all day. One in particular Miles rounded his out route and the ball was thrown for a sharp cut. He had to dive for it and dropped. We ended up punting.

[WildDawg]

Lewis will step up on defense and take over as the vocal force. R Brown better get his shit together. Fred Ross will become a vocal leader in the huddle. A lot guys already look up to him. I expect him to take over vocally.

Huddle....WHAT HUDDLE??!! We should have been huddling and taking our time the whole second half. Instead we ran hurry up that didn't help our O or confuse their D. Bad management.

[Liverpooldawg]

And that's the problem. You can't wait until the bad losses have piled up. You have to anticipate. And every coach has flaws, but the good ones recognize.them and strive to minimize them. The ones that cant recognize their flaws NEVER succeed for long.

Rick Ray and Eddie O say hello

[BoomBoom]

Rick Ray and Eddie O say hello

Such a stellar HC record they have.**

[HereComesTheSpiral]

There is one reason we play shitty against these type of teams. It's our HC. He treats these games as gimmies and sure wins and likes to tinker and her cute. Up until today he has been able to eek out each of them.

As for the team the WR's were bad. I saw shit routes all day. One in particular Miles rounded his out route and the ball was thrown for a sharp cut. He had to dive for it and dropped. We ended up punting.

Maybe Williams made the wrong throw considering the South Alabama db's were getting better looks than our receivers.

[Todd4State]

I don't think anybody outside of Mullen and his close circle really knows about how much he cares. Now my experience with coaches I have actually known is that even the BAD ones care. They may not show it like YOU or I would, but they care a great deal. As for arrogance, I wouldn't want one that didn't have a touch of that. Preferably he would have MORE than a touch. The thing about that change thing is it takes care of itself. If it ain't working they either change or they get fired. It's been working pretty well. You CAN'T discount winning 19 games in two yeas at MSU, no matter how much we would ALL like to have a history that would make that not the case. If that changes then things will take care of themselves, one way or another.

I've watched pretty much every game since Dan came here. His actions speak for themselves as far as him not caring. There's a very obvious difference.

The team shows it as well- they consistently come out flat and uninspired. That's on the coaching staff.

A coach can be arrogant but he needs to be flexible. If he sees something isn't working he needs to change something.

[Liverpooldawg]

Such a stellar HC record they have.**

EXACTLY BOOM, EXACTLY.

[RougeDawg]

Damian is not our QB!! He can't be. He is serviceable at best, has no idea how to throw the ball to a spot and holds onto it way too long. He took a 10 yard sack on third down which made Graves attempt a 44 yd instead of 34 yard FG! Not smart.
All Westin Graves has to do is make a 28 harder!!
Our secondary is horrible and can't cover my mom.
Our O line is pathetic, and can't block my mom.
Our receivers cannot separate from coverage.
As mentioned, Shump isn't an SEC RB.

How many years or eligibility does your mom have left?**

[Liverpooldawg]

And that's the problem. You can't wait until the bad losses have piled up. You have to anticipate. And every coach has flaws, but the good ones recognize.them and strive to minimize them. The ones that cant recognize their flaws NEVER succeed for long.

So you fire a coach before he actually starts really losing? NOW your views on the other board make sense................in the context of you. By the way....the main program I am talking about would never have won it all by that standard. Maybe that's why I tend to be a contrarion here. I tend to take a long term view because I have been up close and have seen it WORK.......and in a big way......more than once. The short term view has never worked for us....ever. We dang near fired JWS before HIS best run. Many wanted to fire Dan in 2013.

[lamont]

EXACTLY BOOM, EXACTLY.

His point went way over your head

[Liverpooldawg]

His point went way over your head

No, it didn't. He made a point he isn't capable of understanding. Nor are you RP34. Rick Ray says Cheers!

[BoomBoom]

EXACTLY BOOM, EXACTLY.

No you moron. When you take a shot down the field and it falls incomplete do you call it a dumb call? 17 no. Yes you can screw up a hire. But with what we pay and what we offer it is not a bad call to throw one deep.

[Liverpooldawg]

No you moron. When you take a shot down the field and it falls incomplete do you call it a dumb call? 17 no. Yes you can screw up a hire. But with what we pay and what we offer it is not a bad call to throw one deep.

You need to look at what we pay compared to place we live in. Mississippi pays damn good wages compared to Mexico too.

[Todd4State]

No you moron. When you take a shot down the field and it falls incomplete do you call it a dumb call? 17 no. Yes you can screw up a hire. But with what we pay and what we offer it is not a bad call to throw one deep.

Making a bad hire isn't fatal. You can always fire a coach.

[BoomBoom]

You need to look at what we pay compared to place we live in. Mississippi pays damn good wages compared to Mexico too.

I think you do. We pay top dollar for HCs now. Wasn't always that way.

[BoomBoom]

Making a bad hire isn't fatal. You can always fire a coach.

Exactly. Our mistake is holding on to coaches too long. I still can't believe we gave Croom a 4 year extension. That was done off lucky results, not underlying trends. Liver probably loved that extension.

[Liverpooldawg]

I think you do. We pay top dollar for HCs now. Wasn't always that way.

Actually we don't, nor do we have tip top facilities. Just because it's better than what we have done in the past, and it is LIGHTYEARS ahead of that, doesn't mean we are keeping up with the Jones in the neighborhood. It ain't all about the head coach either.

[Liverpooldawg]

Making a bad hire isn't fatal. You can always fire a coach.

THAT we know from our history.

[DudyDawg]

You need to look at what we pay compared to place we live in. Mississippi pays damn good wages compared to Mexico too.

Did you really try to work Mexico into an argument on Dan Mullen's behalf? Wtf kind of argument is that.

[Tbonewannabe]

Actually we don't, nor do we have tip top facilities. Just because it's better than what we have done in the past, and it is LIGHTYEARS ahead of that, doesn't mean we are keeping up with the Jones in the neighborhood. It ain't all about the head coach either.

We have probably top 25 facilities along with top 20 pay for a head coach.

[BoomBoom]

We have probably top 25 facilities along with top 20 pay for a head coach.

Exactly. Yet we have a board moron insisting we can't get a Top.25 HC.

[Liverpooldawg]

Exactly. Yet we have a board moron insisting we can't get a Top.25 HC.

That's nice. Where are we in the SEC West? We have the smallest stadium, that I do know. I think we have the smallest of the rest too. How do you guys rank a "Top 25 HC?" How do we stand on assistants pay in the SEC West? We have the second smallest budget in the SEC, unless Vandy's is bigger.

[DudyDawg]

That's nice. Where are we in the SEC West? We have the smallest stadium, that I do know. I think we have the smallest of the rest too. How do you guys rank a "Top 25 HC?" How do we stand on assistants pay in the SEC West? We have the second smallest budget in the SEC, unless Vandy's is bigger.

I think the seal is the biggest facility in the sec. It was 2 years ago.

[BoomBoom]

That's nice. Where are we in the SEC West? We have the smallest stadium, that I do know. I think we have the smallest of the rest too. How do you guys rank a "Top 25 HC?" How do we stand on assistants pay in the SEC West? We have the second smallest budget in the SEC, unless Vandy's is bigger.

This is not an argument about being good but not as good as the Top 15 teams.that fill out our division. I have always been the first to defend Mullen in thay case. This is about Mullen's shortcomings and how he won't address them. That makes him a terrible coach worth much less than his salary, and it will get worse every year. When USA is exploiting your flaws to a W, it's time.

[blacklistedbully]

Did you really try to work Mexico into an argument on Dan Mullen's behalf? Wtf kind of argument is that.

A really ****ing stupid one. Consider the source.