Peer Pressure

[Reason2succeed]

I don't know how many posters on here are parents but I am. How can you try to teach your children about not responding to peer pressure while at the same time wanting our program to do what the "big boys" are doing? We are literal watching the demise of OM's football program but there are still people on here that insist that we need to "play the game".

Mullen is not perfect. No coach is. But we have been able to rise to the highest level ever in the history of our program and we have done it relatively clean and without "mistakes". Why would you jeopardize that for one or two players that may or may not even pan out? We cannot give in to peer pressure especially now that OM will be looking for anything they can do to drag us down with them.

[EngDawg]

Why we can do what UM does:

1. UM got caught. The punishment they receive will determine to what degree this affect an AD's decision to cheat or not. I think most AD's will think twice about cheating once UM is dealt with. (I.e. You can get caught cheating, but is the punishment mild so that it is worth cheating anyway, or is the punishment severe enough to make cheating not worth the risk)

2. The "Big boys" can get away with a bit more because they are the "big boys". (I.e. They have power and influence and nobody blinks an eye when they get loads of five stars because they are expected to get loads of five stars anyway.

3. We don't have the local media in our pockets; just the opposite

[Taog Redloh]

We are literal watching the demise of OM's football program but there are still people on here that insist that we need to "play the game".
You have 1,592 posts and have almost 2.5 years on this board. Have you not yet identified the idiots?

[Reason2succeed]

You have 1,592 posts and have almost 2.5 years on this board. Have you not yet identified the idiots?

What can I say? I'm just holding out hope...

[Pollodawg]

We DID do what they are doing, and--in fact--we got way more return on investment for it when we were moments away from a conference title. And yes, it set out program back a decade like it probably will theirs at some point. Thanks for the memories, but I'm ok with where we are at the moment if that is the alternative.

[Reason2succeed]

We DID do what they are doing, and--in fact--we got way more return on investment for it when we were moments away from a conference title. And yes, it set out program back a decade like it probably will theirs at some point. Thanks for the memories, but I'm ok with where we are at the moment if that is the alternative.

Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.

So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.

[M.Fillmore]

....it has taken us 10 years to recover from the incompetency of Larry Templeton.

FIFY

[Corn Bread]

FIFY

Food for thought. Experienced Atlanta with State. Peerless just to much and our QB went down late. Next year at Bammer the holding call that did not happen-there as well. Then all hell breaks loose. The Croom years with back-to-back Bammer wins-was there. Difference is Bammer got talent and State gets portions of that. Hell, Cam Newton damn near was a melt down and he went to Auby. Finbaum was the one that tried to tourch us to protect Auby during the magic season. Bottom line, we are not the elite program we would like to be and the press ain't gonna let it happen. Short answer is stay on the straight and narrow. One misstep=media frenzy with no pass.

[1bigdawg]

Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.

So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.

Since I was "very" involved in the Sherrill years, let me say that we were never close to doing the things that UNM has been doing. We got slammed more because of hiring Sherrill than what we were doing. Note that I did not say we were slammed because of the things we got caught for. The NCAA, with the assistance of private detectives and the official NCAA investigators getting "special assistance" from ZenaReb, among others, never found anything significant. Speaking with some authority, the things that did happen were nothing compared to the current documented things for UNM.

Now the Tyler era is a different story. We were guilty as could be, but they could not find anything but one discount that was arguably not a violation and they nailed us for what they believed we were doing, rightly in that case.

However, even that paled in comparison with what the school up north has been doing over the last few years. In their case, when they say "mistakes were made," what they mean is that they made mistakes in getting caught for some of the more minor things they have been doing. To equate it to the Tyler era, we were caught for arguably doing something minor and got harshly punished for what we were really doing. If the NCAA were to comparably punish them for the combination of what they have been caught doing and what they have been really doing, they would have to reapply for NCAA membership in ten years.

[tireddawg]

If we cheated to the extent of competing for a national championship, I would take the punishment to win one

[Todd4State]

Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.

So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.

Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most “memorable” wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.

Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie’s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn’t have the benefit of “we’ve never won like this before” as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn’t going to cut it anymore.

Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that’s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn’t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.

But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That’s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.

And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990’s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.

[Bully75]

Excellent points. Agree 100%.
Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most ?memorable? wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.

Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie?s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn?t have the benefit of ?we?ve never won like this before? as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn?t going to cut it anymore.

Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that?s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn?t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.

But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That?s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.

And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990?s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.

[spbdawg]

#

[Reason2succeed]

If we cheated to the extent of competing for a national championship, I would take the punishment to win one

This is what I'm talking about. First, learn from OM. You can't guarantee a championship even if you are cheating. All OM got out of it were a few wins over us and Bama which will all be vacated shortly and a Sugarbowl trophy that will soon be returned.

Look at Georgia, Auburn, and Florida. They almost routinely lose containment of their locker rooms. "If you pay a player he owns you".

We need to be patient and build the program until we can "expand" our outreach and it is not questioned because we have the history to back it up. Mullen is doing that but we can't be too hasty.

[msbulldog]

Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most “memorable” wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.

Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie’s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn’t have the benefit of “we’ve never won like this before” as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn’t going to cut it anymore.

Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that’s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn’t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.

But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That’s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.

And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990’s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.

We better be keeping our nose clean beginning yesterday. Mississippi is already pissed and even though they no there are others responsible for their current problems, MSU is the only one they can truly reach out and hurt. I assure you they are already planning their retribution against us. So we need to give Bracky a raise and mind our P's & Q's.

[BrunswickDawg]

Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most “memorable” wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.

Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie’s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn’t have the benefit of “we’ve never won like this before” as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn’t going to cut it anymore.

Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that’s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn’t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.

But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That’s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.

And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990’s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.

Yes, Jackie had some memorable wins and had opportunities for more, but "Bad Losses" does not accurately depict the entirety of the Jackie era. We had TERRIBLE seasons under Jackie that people seem to ignore because he took us to Atlanta. I sat through 3-6-2 ('93), 3-8 ('95), and 5-6 ('96). It put Jackie on the hot seat - and if it wasn't for that miracle against Bama in '96 we would have seen a new coach. But, we stuck with Jackie because we were looking at the long game. While Dan has had some disappointing seasons, I have never seen anywhere near the crap I saw those 3 seasons in the mid-90's.

[sleepy dawg]

Tell your children the truth. The more power you have, the more you can get away with. This is true in almost any facet of life in this world.

[BossDawg]

I think we need to "play the game" as everybody else is doing. There are unwritten rules to recruiting in college football, and if you follow those rules you can play the game effectively and get by with stuff. However, UM got way too desperate, bit off more than they can chew and it pissed a lot of people off. That's where they went wrong.

Eta: like Todd said, at this point we need to see what happens with UM. If they skate then the gloves should definitely come off.

[MadDawg]

We better be keeping our nose clean beginning yesterday. Mississippi is already pissed and even though they no there are others responsible for their current problems, MSU is the only one they can truly reach out and hurt. I assure you they are already planning their retribution against us. So we need to give Bracky a raise and mind our P's & Q's.

Planning? hahaha! I can guarantee you the bearsharks have put a few PI's kids through college recently.

[Dawgology]

Planning? hahaha! I can guarantee you the bearsharks have put a few PI's kids through college recently.

Guarantee you that most of them are less focused on correcting their program and more focused on taking us down. True sign of losers.

[Jarius]

If Ole Miss gets the punishment that people who aren't dumbasses about their situation expect them to get, we will get players to compete for Championships without having to go off the deep end cheating. If they get hammered they will be a virtual nonfactor in instate recruiting for 3 or 4 years which will give us an opportunity to bury them. Whether or not we take advantage of that is on us, and it would not surprise me either way of how we handled them being a nonfactor.

[TopDog58]

Yes, Jackie had some memorable wins and had opportunities for more, but "Bad Losses" does not accurately depict the entirety of the Jackie era. We had TERRIBLE seasons under Jackie that people seem to ignore because he took us to Atlanta. I sat through 3-6-2 ('93), 3-8 ('95), and 5-6 ('96). It put Jackie on the hot seat - and if it wasn't for that miracle against Bama in '96 we would have seen a new coach. But, we stuck with Jackie because we were looking at the long game. While Dan has had some disappointing seasons, I have never seen anywhere near the crap I saw those 3 seasons in the mid-90's.

Those call in shows after those games were cringe worthy to listen to. The Arkansas State tie, loss to Northeast Louisiana (ULM), Memphis running us out of Davis Wade. I'll never forget after the Louisiana Tech loss sitting on Hwy 12 listening to the post game show. Someone asked Jackie on air if he would think about resigning.

[tireddawg]

This is what I'm talking about. First, learn from OM. You can't guarantee a championship even if you are cheating. All OM got out of it were a few wins over us and Bama which will all be vacated shortly and a Sugarbowl trophy that will soon be returned.

Look at Georgia, Auburn, and Florida. They almost routinely lose containment of their locker rooms. "If you pay a player he owns you".

We need to be patient and build the program until we can "expand" our outreach and it is not questioned because we have the history to back it up. Mullen is doing that but we can't be too hasty.

I agree. I'll take what Mullen's doing over what Freeze is doing. But if we were guaranteed a NC by cheating, I would take it. But if course, there's no guarantees.

I mean we used to complain about where we used to be & some said if we can just win 7-8 games a year, we would take it. Now that we're winning those 7, 8, 9, & even 10, we want more. That's natural. Some are concerned that we won't get back without Dak. But I believe that there's another qb out there that will take us to those heights & Thompson may be it.

Dan has done, in my opinion, what was needed to compete, by the hires he's made. He's shown me he is serious.

[Taog Redloh]

Yes, Jackie had some memorable wins and had opportunities for more, but "Bad Losses" does not accurately depict the entirety of the Jackie era. We had TERRIBLE seasons under Jackie that people seem to ignore because he took us to Atlanta. I sat through 3-6-2 ('93), 3-8 ('95), and 5-6 ('96). It put Jackie on the hot seat - and if it wasn't for that miracle against Bama in '96 we would have seen a new coach. But, we stuck with Jackie because we were looking at the long game. While Dan has had some disappointing seasons, I have never seen anywhere near the crap I saw those 3 seasons in the mid-90's.
Yup. I am enjoying Mullen's consistency.

[ShotgunDawg]

If Ole Miss gets the punishment that people who aren't dumbasses about their situation expect them to get, we will get players to compete for Championships without having to go off the deep end cheating. If they get hammered they will be a virtual nonfactor in instate recruiting for 3 or 4 years which will give us an opportunity to bury them. Whether or not we take advantage of that is on us, and it would not surprise me either way of how we handled them being a nonfactor.

I don't agree with this. The players that want to be paid will still look to be paid.

My guess is that they just trade in going to Ole Miss for going to Auburn or Tennessee. I'm not sure which players on Ole Miss' roster we would have gotten if they didn't buy off.

Which ones?

[BossDawg]

Guarantee you that most of them are less focused on correcting their program and more focused on taking us down. True sign of losers.

This. I don't care what they say or do to try and convince people otherwise, it's a d@mn bald-faced lie. They are flat out INFATUATED with State.

[Jarius]

Lets not act like we are spotless (especially with in state recruits). We have 4 and 5 star players on our roster too. If ole miss is on crippling probation their boosters are going to slow way down or they are going to get the death penalty. Taking ole miss out of the equation for any instate recruit that isn't a die hard ole miss rebel will put us in an excellent position in the state of Mississippi.


I don't agree with this. The players that want to be paid will still look to be paid.

My guess is that they just trade in going to Ole Miss for going to Auburn or Tennessee. I'm not sure which players on Ole Miss' roster we would have gotten if they didn't buy off.

Which ones?

[Political Hack]

If we cheated to the extent of competing for a national championship, I would take the punishment to win one

That's what Auburn fans say. "So what? Sometimes we go on probation. Sometimes we win a national title."

That's how ole miss views it too, except they went far beyond anything that's ever been done at State. To me, there's a significant difference in a kid getting a ride to campus or feeding him while he's there versus giving him brand new, loaded out loaner vehicles and a signing bonus of $60k or more.

[Johnson85]

Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.

So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.

It didn't take us 10 years to recover from Sherrill. It took us a couple of years to recover from Templeton.

Also, when comparing Sherrill and Dan, you have to remember to decrease Mullen's win total by one each year to account for a 12 game schedule with a FCS opponent. So adjusting to Sherril's era, Mullen would have basically gone 4-7, 7-4, 5-6, 7-4, 5-6, 9-2, 7-4.

For comparison, the Kang went 7-4, 7-4, 4-5-2, 8-3, 3-8, 5-6, 7-4 in his first seven years. Then he followed that up by winning 8, 9, and 7 regular season wins before retiring and letting an interim coach handle 2001 through 2003, with Crooms taking over in 2004.

So Mullen had a little bet better run than Sherrill for his first 7 years after inheriting a worse situation and facing a tougher SECW. Mullen matching sherrils 8, 9, and 10th year would require that he basically average 9 regular season wins a year. The only reason I don't think it's likely he'll do that is because of OLine recruiting, which could put a pretty low ceiling on us this year and next year.

ETA: that's not intended to say that Mullen hasn't done a great job. I'm just pointing out that comparing win totals between Mullen and Sherrill doesn't work.

[tireddawg]

I'm talking about a guarantee to win a NC. For me I would take the punishment. I understand the risk involved in getting caught but don't you think, even with the punishment, the chance to compete for another would be greater?
I don't know I would just love to see & hear the phrase Mississippi State University, your NCAA football National Champions.

[Taog Redloh]

If Ole Miss gets the punishment that people who aren't dumbasses about their situation expect them to get, we will get players to compete for Championships without having to go off the deep end cheating. If they get hammered they will be a virtual nonfactor in instate recruiting for 3 or 4 years which will give us an opportunity to bury them. Whether or not we take advantage of that is on us, and it would not surprise me either way of how we handled them being a nonfactor.
Did this happen after 1994? I don't remember back then, but it seems to me Tommy Tuberville was able to recruit pretty well (Deuce and Romaro come to mind) right after that. Had pretty good teams in 1997 and 1998, then Cutcliffe got Manning on NSD 1999.

I guess we recrooted pretty well too but I remember those teams being built primarily with JUCO talent rather than HS.

[HSVDawg]

FIFY

Exactly. LT and Croom are solely responsible for the lost decade from 2001 to 2009. They did way more damage than any NCAA sanctions possibly could have. Other than the one year postseason ban for 2004 when we went 3-8 anyway, the sanctions weren't all that severe as I recall.

[HSVDawg]

Yes, Jackie had some memorable wins and had opportunities for more, but "Bad Losses" does not accurately depict the entirety of the Jackie era. We had TERRIBLE seasons under Jackie that people seem to ignore because he took us to Atlanta. I sat through 3-6-2 ('93), 3-8 ('95), and 5-6 ('96). It put Jackie on the hot seat - and if it wasn't for that miracle against Bama in '96 we would have seen a new coach. But, we stuck with Jackie because we were looking at the long game. While Dan has had some disappointing seasons, I have never seen anywhere near the crap I saw those 3 seasons in the mid-90's.

I'll give you that 93 and 95 were bad. I remember those years even though I'd rather forget them. But 96 wasn't terrible. We beat Alabama and shut out OM in Oxford. The week before Alabama, we missed what would have been a game winning field goal against UK in Lexington and also lost a heartbreaker to Arkansas in OT the week after. If schedules were then like they are today, we would have had an extra fluff nonconference game in there somewhere that would have gotten us to 6-6 and bowl eligible. That team was realistically comparable to Mullen's 2011 and 2013 teams.

[Maroonthirteen]

The biggest thing to remember when comparing Sherrill and Mullen ...

In the 90s, Bama, AU and OM went through some turmoil and had a revolving door in the coach's office.

Dan has faced a much stronger west now compared to then.

[BrunswickDawg]

I'll give you that 93 and 95 were bad. I remember those years even though I'd rather forget them. But 96 wasn't terrible. We beat Alabama and shut out OM in Oxford. The week before Alabama, we missed what would have been a game winning field goal against UK in Lexington and also lost a heartbreaker to Arkansas in OT the week after. If schedules were then like they are today, we would have had an extra fluff nonconference game in there somewhere that would have gotten us to 6-6 and bowl eligible. That team was realistically comparable to Mullen's 2011 and 2013 teams.

'96 was the lesser of the 3, but not a good season for a coach on the hotseat. You also can't give too much credit to the "almosts" when you lose to La Tech by 15. Those "almosts" were also against a 4-7 UK and 4-7 Ark.

[Jarius]

Did this happen after 1994? I don't remember back then, but it seems to me Tommy Tuberville was able to recruit pretty well (Deuce and Romaro come to mind) right after that. Had pretty good teams in 1997 and 1998, then Cutcliffe got Manning on NSD 1999.

I guess we recrooted pretty well too but I remember those teams being built primarily with JUCO talent rather than HS.

Like I said, we may or may not take advantage of it. We went on a pretty good run from 97-2000. I also believe we have a better coach now than we did then and we also won't be on probation ourself this go round.

[Reason2succeed]

A couple responses.

Yes, the regular season used to be 11 game but you can't just reduce Mullen's win total to make a comparison because that was also another chance that he could lose another game but he didn't. This is esp true since aTm has been in the west.

I hear everyone blaming LT for Croom and I agree LT was basically working against our program. I was in undergrad and I realized that it was not to our advantage to schedule P5 teams OOC. (What the heck were we trying to prove? Win the west and we get respect. If not make a bowl game.)

But you can't totally blame LT for Croom. It's one thing to find someone to coach MSU in the early 2000s but it's another thing to find someone to coach MSU on probation, with a depleted roster, and discipline issues. There weren't too many up and coming hotshot coaches that would want to tie their name and fate to MSU back then. If you know someone who was interested let me know but I don't see it.

It sounds like Mullen has already addressed the OL recruiting issue. From everything that's been said Mullen has tBuck on that so we shall see how that progresses.

[Jarius]

A couple responses.

Yes, the regular season used to be 11 game but you can't just reduce Mullen's win total to make a comparison because that was also another chance that he could lose another game but he didn't. This is esp true since aTm has been in the west.

I hear everyone blaming LT for Croom and I agree LT was basically working against our program. I was in undergrad and I realized that it was not to our advantage to schedule P5 teams OOC. (What the heck were we trying to prove? Win the west and we get respect. If not make a bowl game.)

But you can't totally blame LT for Croom. It's one thing to find someone to coach MSU in the early 2000s but it's another thing to find someone to coach MSU on probation, with a depleted roster, and discipline issues. There weren't too many up and coming hotshot coaches that would want to tie their name and fate to MSU back then. If you know someone who was interested let me know but I don't see it.

It sounds like Mullen has already addressed the OL recruiting issue. From everything that's been said Mullen has tBuck on that so we shall see how that progresses.

I don't blame LT for hiring Croom. I thought it was a good hire when we made it. I blame him for not firing croom after 3 years of ineptness.

[Reason2succeed]

I don't blame LT for hiring Croom. I thought it was a good hire when we made it. I blame him for not firing croom after 3 years of ineptness.

Fair but the entire point of hiring him was PR and (just like with Rick Ray) to clean out the bad acters in the program.