Looking at our tackles vs their DEs

[RC3]

This is the position group that worries me the most about our team. This might be one of the better teams we play this year and we might actually have a slight advantage in this particular game. Won't be the case very often this year against quality opponents, I'm afraid. None of their guys at end have starting experience. This gives me a little more hope in this game for some reason.
I'm sure they've released their depth chart by now, but here is a short article I found
http://m.newsok.com/osu-football-notebook-several-candidates-vying-for-playing-time-at-defensive-end/article/3874339

[Coach34]

Our OT's are not that bad...It's amazing we were 2nd in the SEC in sacks allowed to hear people talk-yet threw the 4th most passes. LSU gave up almost twice as many sacks as we did- but people talk about their "good OL". Baffling

[RC3]

Our OT's are not that bad...It's amazing we were 2nd in the SEC in sacks allowed to hear people talk-yet threw the 4th most passes. LSU gave up almost twice as many sacks as we did- but people talk about their "good OL". Baffling
I know you watched them last year, as did I. Tyler might not have been sacked much, but he got his clock cleaned numerous times every game. Now I know that a lot of that is on him, for not getting the ball out quick enough but some of that is on our OL. It's great to see them all come back but I was not impressed with their play last year and they will need to improve greatly for us to eclipse the 6 win mark again IMO. They say continuity along the line is very important. I hope we see them grow immensely

[messageboardsuperhero]

Again, what is with all this bitching about our tackles? They were serviceable at worst last year, and now they're a year older and Siddoway is finally healthy. They allowed the second fewest sacks in the SEC last year while protecting an immobile QB. They should be at least as good, if not better this year.

I find it ironic that the people who constantly talk about how bad our tackles were are the same people who complain about TR holding the ball too long. So which is it: Are our tackles bad or does TR hold the ball too long? And if it's both, how in the hell were we one of the best teams in the SEC in pass protection last year? Some of our bitching fans need to get a little perspective; it's normal to give up a sack or two in a game. Not every team in America can have first round picks at tackles. Our guys were fine last year.

[engie]

Here's the deal -- we cut block the hell out of every truly blue-chip DE we see and did a pretty damn fine job of it last year for the most part. The teams that bring alot of pressure in the form of exotic blitzes gave us trouble, but the elite pass rushers, for the most part, did not(CJ Johnson being the only notable example to the contrary). We did a pretty damn good job of virtually taking those guys out of games. Think about it -- Lemonier, Montgomery, Mingo, DeMontre Moore, the 2 really good Arky DEs, etc...

I'm not worried about teams with one/two elite DEs given what we saw last year(and I fully expect our OL to improve just as drastically as it did from 2011 to 2012) -- I'm far more worried about teams with elite pass-rushing linebackers...

[RC3]

Again, what is with all this bitching about our tackles? They were serviceable at worst last year, and now they're a year older and Siddoway is finally healthy. They allowed the second fewest sacks in the SEC last year while protecting an immobile QB. They should be at least as good, if not better this year.

I find it ironic that the people who constantly talk about how bad our tackles were are the same people who complain about TR holding the ball too long. So which is it: Are our tackles bad or does TR hold the ball too long? And if it's both, how in the hell were we one of the best teams in the SEC in pass protection last year? Some of our bitching fans need to get a little perspective; it's normal to give up a sack or two in a game. Not every team in America can have first round picks at tackles. Our guys were fine last year.

I do think its a little of both. And I'm not bitching but just stating that this stat of "2nd fewest sacks allowed" doesn't tell the full story to me. Like i said, I'm not bitching but just statin that I think it is probably the weakest position group on our team. And no, I don't expect to see nfl OTs year in and year out but I can guarantee you that they will be going up against future nfl draft picks at DE nearly every week in sec play

[biggun]

Again, what is with all this bitching about our tackles? They were serviceable at worst last year, and now they're a year older and Siddoway is finally healthy. They allowed the second fewest sacks in the SEC last year while protecting an immobile QB. They should be at least as good, if not better this year.

I find it ironic that the people who constantly talk about how bad our tackles were are the same people who complain about TR holding the ball too long. So which is it: Are our tackles bad or does TR hold the ball too long? And if it's both, how in the hell were we one of the best teams in the SEC in pass protection last year? Some of our bitching fans need to get a little perspective; it's normal to give up a sack or two in a game. Not every team in America can have first round picks at tackles. Our guys were fine last year.

What about run blocking???? The 2nd half of last year, our OL could not open a hole for anyone and they were consistently being whipped at the line of scrimmage by our opponents DL. Our OL must be able to successfully run block against SEC competition and OSU, not just pass block to be considered a good OL.

[engie]

I know you watched them last year, as did I. Tyler might not have been sacked much, but he got his clock cleaned numerous times every game. Now I know that a lot of that is on him, for not getting the ball out quick enough but some of that is on our OL. It's great to see them all come back but I was not impressed with their play last year and they will need to improve greatly for us to eclipse the 6 win mark again IMO. They say continuity along the line is very important. I hope we see them grow immensely

I'm trying not to pick on you here -- but in all seriousness, how long have you been watching/following college football closely? How many games/week do you watch other than our own? I ask this -- because OL development schedules become very, very apparent over time -- and our OL development is right on schedule.

This, to me, is like people complaining about our offense in baseball all season. It seems to come from a very limited viewpoint that was formed without ever attempting to back statistically. Simple fact is that last year, we gave up 4 fewer sacks than Derek Sherrod and a healthy Relf gave up in 2010 behind what many remember as a vastly superior OL. Is there room for improvement, sure. I'm not saying there isn't. But there isn't room to CRITICIZE them at this point with a straight face...

[Coach34]

run-blocking? Like when we ran for 186 on 33 carries vs Northwestern but inexplicably kept throwing the football? The run-blocking where JRob had almost 100 yards at half vs NW but we only gave him 2 more carries after half?

Our scheme and playcalling were much more the problem than our run-blocking

[msstate7]

I'm trying not to pick on you here -- but in all seriousness, how long have you been watching/following college football closely? How many games/week do you watch other than our own? I ask this -- because OL development schedules become very, very apparent over time -- and our OL development is right on schedule.

This, to me, is like people complaining about our offense in baseball all season. It seems to come from a very limited viewpoint that was formed without ever attempting to back statistically. Simple fact is that last year, we gave up 4 fewer sacks than Derek Sherrod and a healthy Relf gave up in 2010 behind what many remember as a vastly superior OL. Is there room for improvement, sure. I'm not saying there isn't. But there isn't room to CRITICIZE them at this point with a straight face...

My criticism of this ol isn't pass blocking. It's run blocking. We should run the ball down osu's throat and I'll be very disappointed if we don't.

[Coach34]

Pocket passers get hit alot in today's football. Hell, Mett was sacked almost twice as many times as Russell- how many other times do you think he was hammered when getting rid of it?

Our pass protection should not be questioned no way- no how...there's nothing you can say to back it up as a problem

[RC3]

Again, what is with all this bitching about our tackles? They were serviceable at worst last year, and now they're a year older and Siddoway is finally healthy. They allowed the second fewest sacks in the SEC last year while protecting an immobile QB. They should be at least as good, if not better this year.

I find it ironic that the people who constantly talk about how bad our tackles were are the same people who complain about TR holding the ball too long. So which is it: Are our tackles bad or does TR hold the ball too long? And if it's both, how in the hell were we one of the best teams in the SEC in pass protection last year? Some of our bitching fans need to get a little perspective; it's normal to give up a sack or two in a game. Not every team in America can have first round picks at tackles. Our guys were fine last year.


I'm trying not to pick on you here -- but in all seriousness, how long have you been watching/following college football closely? How many games/week do you watch other than our own? I ask this -- because OL development schedules become very, very apparent over time -- and our OL development is right on schedule.

This, to me, is like people complaining about our offense in baseball all season. It seems to come from a very limited viewpoint that was formed without ever attempting to back statistically. Simple fact is that last year, we gave up 4 fewer sacks than Derek Sherrod and a healthy Relf gave up in 2010 behind what many remember as a vastly superior OL. Is there room for improvement, sure. I'm not saying there isn't. But there isn't room to CRITICIZE them at this point with a straight face...

Just started watching football last year. Made it to a game or two. Seriously, if you think our OL looked good last year, we are going to have to agree to disagree. They couldn't block middle school traffic in sec play. But hey, they gave up the second fewest sacks in the league, so they must be great!

[DogBanker]

Maybe because in the second half of the year, people knew they could man on our WRs and be successful because we couldn't get desperation. Therefore they stacked the box which is tough for a running back to get yards out of. And then they bring extra pressure on 3rd downs knowing they can go one on one. I know I would've based on Russel's play in the second of the season

[RC3]

Hey back to the original point. Regardless of what I believe to be our OL shortcomings, I do see a possible advantage here for this particular game. That's Actually a positive thing.

[MarketingBully01]

Exactly, our WR couldn't get separation and we had too many smurf 5'11" WR's and no burners. That has changed in a big way this year and we have a much much better WR coach to go with it. Also, one offseason of development for an OL is like two offseasons for every other position. I think we should be just fine on the OL especially in this game. We should be able to run the ball on these guys and pass of well as well. We should be able to be balenced on offense. Having a fifth year senior at QB has got to be a big big plus as well.

[aerodawg]

Just started watching football last year. Made it to a game or two. Seriously, if you think our OL looked good last year, we are going to have to agree to disagree. They couldn't block middle school traffic in sec play. But hey, they gave up the second fewest sacks in the league, so they must be great!

I agree to a point that our OL could have done some things better last year. But they were way back on the list of problems that we had offensively.

First and foremost was the pitiful recognition of what is working well and punishing defenses for it. Games last year reminded me of the 2011 Auburn game where we were destroying them by stuffing it down their throat, then we took 2 quarters off trying to throw the ball. It is like someone is throwing darts at a dartboard for playcalling rather than recognizing what we are doing well and make them adjust to stop it.

Our receivers as a unit were pretty mediocre to bad last year. Bumphis had a pretty good year, but we just couldn't get any separation. Our only vertical threat was actually a tight end in Malcolm Johnson who only played a limited role missing half the season and coming back off an injury. Just looked his stats up, typically had 1-2 receptions per game played last year but averaged almost 20 yds per catch with 2 TDs on the season. He is by far my favorite target in big situations.

[hacker]

Again, what is with all this bitching about our tackles? They were serviceable at worst last year, and now they're a year older and Siddoway is finally healthy. They allowed the second fewest sacks in the SEC last year while protecting an immobile QB. They should be at least as good, if not better this year.

I find it ironic that the people who constantly talk about how bad our tackles were are the same people who complain about TR holding the ball too long. So which is it: Are our tackles bad or does TR hold the ball too long? And if it's both, how in the hell were we one of the best teams in the SEC in pass protection last year? Some of our bitching fans need to get a little perspective; it's normal to give up a sack or two in a game. Not every team in America can have first round picks at tackles. Our guys were fine last year.

Nailed it.

[hacker]

Just started watching football last year. Made it to a game or two. Seriously, if you think our OL looked good last year, we are going to have to agree to disagree. They couldn't block middle school traffic in sec play. But hey, they gave up the second fewest sacks in the league, so they must be great!

lol, what? can't tell if trolling or just not making sense

[Coach 57]

Engie is right on point with his assessment of our T's. If you watch the game that had the best pass rushers Vs us was LSU. Montgomery & Mingo were on the ground almost every time Tyler made a good throw or a big play. But also as C34 said QB that throw the ball GET HIT after the throw more times than not. 2 things help this. 1.) Conditioning the QBs body to take those hits. 2.) Better footwork from the QB. But he's STILL gonna get hit regardless.

[engie]

I think Russell's lack of mobility in the pocket and otherwise lack of instinctive "movement" to avoid solid contact at the last moment made it look worse than it was as well. He'd just take tremendous hits during his follow through. If you watch AJ, Murray, etc---they do a better job at adjusting their body just after the throw so that the contact looks much less brutal. I'm willing to bet that both get knocked down just about as much as Tyler did -- it just doesn't leave you gasping for air every time that they are...

[messageboardsuperhero]

Just started watching football last year. Made it to a game or two. Seriously, if you think our OL looked good last year, we are going to have to agree to disagree. They couldn't block middle school traffic in sec play. But hey, they gave up the second fewest sacks in the league, so they must be great!

I didn't say that we had really good OTs last year; I just said they did their job. They were serviceable and were at least not bad enough to warrant the amount of criticism that they get. Sure, we cut block a lot vs LSU, but who didn't have some trouble against their ends last year?

[Coach 57]

Yup. That's what I was saying. Our T's cut the crap out of those guy's thighs in that game. And doing it does three things. 1.) Yes it buys time for the QB to throw. 2.) Creates better passing lanes for ball travel. 3.) The most important thing is this. The scariest thing for a DL is for you to cut him. There is a lingering pervasive thought that at any moment one of those cuts COULD be to his knee. He starts to hesitate or slow up a step to react to the cut so he can defend his knees. This slowed step allows the OT to get a better kick step which in turn allows a better blocking angle. All three are good things for the offense.

[trob115]

I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but Siddoway was also playing on one leg just about the entire season. I think we will be fine at OT unless Clausell and Siddoway stay healthy.

[RC3]

I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but Siddoway was also playing on one leg just about the entire season. I think we will be fine at OT unless Clausell and Siddoway stay healthy.

yeah my main concern is with clausell. i see most have him listed as their most-improved big guy in the who's your dawg thread. i hope most are right.

[mic]

We have the entire OL back. That's huge. We have an All-American at Guard. We have a NFL guy at center.
We have a 2L at LT. Who is a very solid SEC LT.
Our O-Line is going to be fine. But we have to stay healthy. Its the one position that I question how good our depth is. Hopefully im wrong..

[Coach34]

I think we have 8 guys that can play solid football on the OL. That's enough.

[Goat Holder]

I agree, but really only on Clausell. He has sucked up until this point. I have no clue why they played him so much at the most important OL spot, unless they were just grooming him for later. And yes, the people talking stats about our OL are clueless, we all know it goes beyond that. Our OL was probably about average last year. I think most of the optimism stems from them being a year older. At least mine does.

[Goat Holder]

How can you disagree with this?

[Johnson85]

I agree, but really only on Clausell. He has sucked up until this point. I have no clue why they played him so much at the most important OL spot, unless they were just grooming him for later. And yes, the people talking stats about our OL are clueless, we all know it goes beyond that. Our OL was probably about average last year. I think most of the optimism stems from them being a year older. At least mine does.

They were playing him because he was our best option. Maybe if Siddoway had been healthy, he could have moved over. And I wouldn't say Clausell sucked. I would say he was an average SEC LT. And as has been stated, whoever you want to give the credit to, our pass blocking was generally effective last year. I think the credit should be spread out. We didn't have a road grader other than Tobias last year (who saw limited action anyway) and I guess Gabe, so I think it's obvious they must have been working well as a unit, with RB's, TE's, and Tyler included. People complain about Tyler, but considering his options outside of Bumphis, I'd say he did a pretty damn good job getting rid of the ball.

[hacker]

How can you disagree with this?

You should probably quote people when replying.

[Todd4State]

I think people in general expect us to:

1. Have five Derek Sherrod's on the o-line. Which would be nice. But even the elite teams in the country don't have that normally.

2. Expect Tyler to have a pocket like a QB in a video game.

I think the Tyler holding onto the ball too long is more about perception. It's like if you want to sound like you know what you are talking about on a message board just say the QB stares down the receivers and holds onto the ball too long. Like others are saying, the QB is going to get hit. If you have a mobile QB he is going to get hit some running the option. If you have a pocket passer he is going to get hit because he doesn't move. I also think it may be out of perception. We care about State more than Bama or LSU. And because of that when we are watching a game, I think some of us have the perception that something is happening maybe slower than it actually is. Basically it's a product of anxiety. LSU or Bama who we don't care about as much- when things happen for them the same thing probably happens for many of their fans as well.

[hacker]

I think people in general expect us to:

1. Have five Derek Sherrod's on the o-line. Which would be nice. But even the elite teams in the country don't have that normally.

2. Expect Tyler to have a pocket like a QB in a video game.

I think the Tyler holding onto the ball too long is more about perception. It's like if you want to sound like you know what you are talking about on a message board just say the QB stares down the receivers and holds onto the ball too long. Like others are saying, the QB is going to get hit. If you have a mobile QB he is going to get hit some running the option. If you have a pocket passer he is going to get hit because he doesn't move. I also think it may be out of perception. We care about State more than Bama or LSU. And because of that when we are watching a game, I think some of us have the perception that something is happening maybe slower than it actually is. Basically it's a product of anxiety. LSU or Bama who we don't care about as much- when things happen for them the same thing probably happens for many of their fans as well.

That's a very good point. The game definitely looks slower to me when State's playing. I can see every frame of Tyler's throwing motion like a slow-loading gif.

[SallyStansbury]

run-blocking? Like when we ran for 186 on 33 carries vs Northwestern but inexplicably kept throwing the football? The run-blocking where JRob had almost 100 yards at half vs NW but we only gave him 2 more carries after half?

Our scheme and playcalling were much more the problem than our run-blocking

With Mullen and Koening remaining, what gives you full confidence that we will change anything, strategy-wise anyway?

[mic]

With Mullen and Koening remaining, what gives you full confidence that we will change anything, strategy-wise anyway?

your right Sally.. No coaches EVER make adjustments from season to season..

[SallyStansbury]

I hope our offensive strategy improves, but Mullen is stubborn enough for me to doubt that significant changes will be forthcoming. Blaming Koening, speaking of players failing to execute or not making plays, crossing arms and pouting if we go down 14-0 in the first quarter will be unacceptable.

I hope we beat ass, but with the same players and the same offensive coaches I will have to see it to believe it.

[gravedigger]

I've been getting very accurate reports of the O Line, but I'm going to have to say that we are worrying a bit too much over this issue.


Football has so many variables that one aspect of it, like the play of our tackles just wont be the deciding factor.

I do think OSU gets the nod as the more talented settled in team.

I think our chance to win will be on our defense creating chances for our offense and our offense grinding out time consuming drives. In a game that neither team makes an obvious mistake, I think they win. But I don't believe they will be able to enjoy that because our defense will be just as aggressive as their offense.

I don't believe it will be that way for us either. Croom was correct when he told everyone that the team that can overcome it's mistakes and stay focused will be the team in best position to win. I think what we need to go right is that we must stop some of their drives down to field goals and we must make some sort of special teams play that is exceptional.

That will bring the game back to our brand of football. I also think our Linebackers preventing the quick hitter throws across the middle will go a long way to us containing their hurry up offense.

Of course our DL will have to create some pressure, but not in the traditional sense. In the sense that we cannot require our cb's to have to cover for too long. If we have no pressure and we settle back into a zone we are doomed.

We have to dictate the down and distance to put pressure on them. I'm all for letting the underneath pass go and popping their asses as long as we are doing it on first down, 2nd and long and 3rd and long. The rest of the time we are going to have to wear their asses out with as much pressure as we have wind to put on them.

This game relies on corners and safeties taking away easy throws. I have confidence the dl and the lb's will give them all they want in pressure, but we cannot afford a repeat of last year when there was no pressure and an easy throw to split the zone.

If I'm Turner and Collins gameplanning, I am going to allow my kids to get a penalty or two if they are doing it in the name of rattling their qb's cage.

That kid camps out in the pocket without getting his dong knocked up in his watchpocket and we will lose big. We get to him and we can have a FAR more low scoring game than many are expecting.

[RC3]

so for all of you who blasted me in this thread back when i started it, how do you feel now? feel like i've watched football before engie?

[Coach34]

I feel like our coaches do such a good job with a mobile QB- and It looks like they lost the instruction book to Tyler and just can't figure out what to do with him

[engie]

so for all of you who blasted me in this thread back when i started it, how do you feel now? feel like i've watched football before engie?

No. I really don't.

So, we've given up 4 sacks in two games? Know who has given up 4 sacks in ONE game against a similar defense to the one we faced in week 1? Alabama. NB4 people talk about the 28 garbage time points that UTSA scored on them last week...

Gotta love when idiots start crowing about being "right" about something in week 2... You should have just started an Engie call-out thread like the ones on SPS every time our baseball team lost a series. After all, they were vindicated and had proven me wrong when they started the thread!1!11 Strangely, not a single damn one of them have come back and admitted being wrong...

[MSUDawg4Life]

I'm convinced that 95% of our fans have garnered their football "knowledge" from XBOX or PlayStation.

Quite sure of that ....

[Goat Holder]

I thought the OL looked good in the 1st quarter against Oklahoma State. They've looked terrible ever since, even against Alcorn. Siddoway gets blown up constantly. Malone is out for the year. Stands to reason why people would be pessimistic about the OL at this point.

You may want to check your ego on this one. I of all people know that, I have been crowing about how improved our OL would be all off-season. That 1st quarter of OSU still gives me hope, though. We'll find out real quick on Saturday night.

[engie]

The point is -- we haven't seen a single elite rush end yet. My point in this thread was that we could and would basically neutralize those with a variety of techniques that we used constantly last season(hence the OT vs DE discussion.

I never said our OL would be a strength of the team -- just that no DE would define the game against us. And they haven't...

I said our OL would be serviceable -- and despite being down a starter(and pulling the starters almost immediately against Alcorn), that's going to prove true -- even though I have, like everyone else, been slightly disappointed with what I've seen thusfar from the OL.