poor, poor Auburn....

[TUSK]

https://www.seccountry.com/auburn/auburn-rb-stephen-davis-jr-to-miss-2016-season-with-knee-injury

Stephen Davis JR has a knee.

[defiantdog]

This is right after they announced Jovon Robinson won't be running the ball this year (because he got booted off the team).... Keep it up Auburn.

[TUSK]

This is right after they announced Jovon Robinson won't be running the ball this year (because he got booted off the team).... Keep it up Auburn.

and don't forget that Roc Thomas Xfered in the off season... they still have talent and likely a 1000 yard rusher, but this, collectively, is a huge blow...

[Reason2succeed]

They're screwed. Besides losing all the talent think about the morale and experience they are losing too. I don't think Gus is going to survive this season.

Literally I could imagine a season where Gus, Sumlin, and Les Miles all get canned at the end of the season. All it takes is us going 8-4 or 9-3. If Harris sucks and LSU fails to beat Bama and loses one other game blood will be in the water. The others are already sitting on the frying pan.

[DownwardDawg]

I've never been worried about the Auburn game. We've passed them by.

[Bodaski]

They're screwed. Besides losing all the talent think about the morale and experience they are losing too. I don't think Gus is going to survive this season.

Literally I could imagine a season where Gus, Sumlin, and Les Miles all get canned at the end of the season. All it takes is us going 8-4 or 9-3. If Harris sucks and LSU fails to beat Bama and loses one other game blood will be in the water. The others are already sitting on the frying pan.

Don't forget Freeze. He'll be gone too.

[mic]

They're screwed. Besides losing all the talent think about the morale and experience they are losing too. I don't think Gus is going to survive this season.

Literally I could imagine a season where Gus, Sumlin, and Les Miles all get canned at the end of the season. All it takes is us going 8-4 or 9-3. If Harris sucks and LSU fails to beat Bama and loses one other game blood will be in the water. The others are already sitting on the frying pan.

We need Sumlin to stay in college station as long as possible..
The right guy in there and they become a monster.... (Tom Herman)

[Reason2succeed]

Wow! How did I forget Freeze? I'm not sure what the timeline is on the NCAA but I think that it will take OM fans having to stare the truth in the face before they let go of their delusion and can him. By that I mean that once they see that he is not a great recruiter in his own right and was just a cheating snake oil salesman that's when he will get canned. In other words he may make it another year.

[starkvegasdawg]

They're screwed. Besides losing all the talent think about the morale and experience they are losing too. I don't think Gus is going to survive this season.

Literally I could imagine a season where Gus, Sumlin, and Les Miles all get canned at the end of the season. All it takes is us going 8-4 or 9-3. If Harris sucks and LSU fails to beat Bama and loses one other game blood will be in the water. The others are already sitting on the frying pan.
That's too many Mullen to _______ options if they all get canned.

[ShotgunDawg]

I've never been worried about the Auburn game. We've passed them by.

We have passed them by as a program but we haven't passed them by in prestige, recruiting, and ceiling.

We have better coaches, development, and scouting than they do and we could beat them 5 years in a row, but, at any given point, Auburn is always closer than us to winning an SEC or National Title because they can recruit the talent neccesary to do so. We've got to find a way to get there. It may be the single hardest barrier in sports to legally break down.

[Reason2succeed]

We have passed them by as a program but we haven't passed them by in prestige, recruiting, and ceiling.

We have better coaches, development, and scouting than they do and we could beat them 5 years in a row, but, at any given point, Auburn is always closer than us to winning an SEC or National Title because they can recruit the talent neccesary to do so. We've got to find a way to get there. It may be the single hardest barrier in sports to legally break down.

So true.

[TUSK]

We have passed them by as a program but we haven't passed them by in prestige, recruiting, and ceiling.

We have better coaches, development, and scouting than they do and we could beat them 5 years in a row, but, at any given point, Auburn is always closer than us to winning an SEC or National Title because they can recruit the talent neccesary to do so. We've got to find a way to get there. It may be the single hardest barrier in sports to legally break down.

A lot of truth in this statement... AU still has "top 5-10ish" talent, and their '16 class was badass (not that Gus will be there long enough to reap the rewards)...

[Todd4State]

Wow! How did I forget Freeze? I'm not sure what the timeline is on the NCAA but I think that it will take OM fans having to stare the truth in the face before they let go of their delusion and can him. By that I mean that once they see that he is not a great recruiter in his own right and was just a cheating snake oil salesman that's when he will get canned. In other words he may make it another year.

If 1994 is any indicator they will fire him in July.

But it isn't an indicator. It depends on how they do. If they start off 1-3 it might be sooner. 2-2 or better and I think they will try to keep him around as long as possible.

It will be interesting to see how the investigation takes it toll on them next year.

[Bothrops]

Malzahn may or may not survive the season, but Auburn will never be great again with him there.

[Bothrops]

That's too many Mullen to _______ options if they all get canned.

Yeah, Espn and other sports forums would have a systemwide computer shut down with all the Mullen-to inquiries.

[tireddawg]

The 20th best athlete in the country is the 7th best in SC? Am I reading that right?

[I seen it dawg]

**** those guys

[GreenheadDawg]

They're screwed. Besides losing all the talent think about the morale and experience they are losing too. I don't think Gus is going to survive this season.

Literally I could imagine a season where Gus, Sumlin, and Les Miles all get canned at the end of the season. All it takes is us going 8-4 or 9-3. If Harris sucks and LSU fails to beat Bama and loses one other game blood will be in the water. The others are already sitting on the frying pan.

I think if Miles doesn't win the SEC or come damn close he's gone. The natives are growing restless and he has a stockpile of talent. This will be one of his most talented teams

[BulldogDX55]

The 20th best athlete in the country is the 7th best in SC? Am I reading that right?

Most likely it's 20th best ATH in country and 7th best player in the state. ATH is a position in scouting services.

[Taog Redloh]

We need Sumlin to stay in college station as long as possible..
The right guy in there and they become a monster.... (Tom Herman)

Everyone said the same thing about Sumlin.

[QuadrupleOption]

Everyone said the same thing about Sumlin.

1) To make my response about Auburn, we should handle them at home this year.

2) I agree with your sentiment - the problem with Texas and Texas A&M isn't the coaching, it's the reliance on Texas high school talent. Texas high school football is insanely advanced, and the best players in Texas have usually hit their peak. It's why they are usually pretty good as freshmen and they fall off as they get older. The lower-tier (prestige wise) schools like TCU and Texas Tech rely on less-developed players with higher ceilings, then coach them up.

It's why A&M and Texas win land all those top 10 classes that don't end up doing anything.

[ShotgunDawg]

2) I agree with your sentiment - the problem with Texas and Texas A&M isn't the coaching, it's the reliance on Texas high school talent. Texas high school football is insanely advanced, and the best players in Texas have usually hit their peak. It's why they are usually pretty good as freshmen and they fall off as they get older. The lower-tier (prestige wise) schools like TCU and Texas Tech rely on less-developed players with higher ceilings, then coach them up.

It's why A&M and Texas win land all those top 10 classes that don't end up doing anything.

I agree with some of what your saying, but not all.

- I do agree that Texas & Texas A&M are over reliant on Texas talent.

- I don't agree that players that play in more advanced high school systems have lower ceilings. They are just more advanced.

- I do think that, due to Texas high school players playing in & against more advanced systems, they often don't understand the physicality needed to play in the SEC. I think the more advanced systems bleed the physicality out of Texas high school football.

- Texas high school football & many of the players are just softer than the players that come from Louisiana, MS, AL, Georgia, FL, & Memphis.

If a Texas school is to rise to national prominence on a year in, year out basis, they will recruit their skill position players from TX & all other positions from out of state. The schools and players from Texas simply don't have a blue collar culture. It's why Oklahoma has traditionally been better than Texas. Oklahoma is a blue collar state that supplements it's roster with players from Texas.

[QuadrupleOption]

I agree with some of what your saying, but not all.

- I do agree that Texas & Texas A&M are over reliant on Texas talent.

- I don't agree that players that play in more advanced high school systems have lower ceilings. They are just more advanced.

- I do think that, due to Texas high school players playing in & against more advanced systems, they often don't understand the physicality needed to play in the SEC. I think the more advanced systems bleed the physicality out of Texas high school football.

- Texas high school football & many of the players are just softer than the players that come from Louisiana, MS, AL, Georgia, FL, & Memphis.

If a Texas school is to rise to national prominence on a year in, year out basis, they will recruit their skill position players from TX & all other positions from out of state. The schools and players from Texas simply don't have a blue collar culture. It's why Oklahoma has traditionally been better than Texas. Oklahoma is a blue collar state that supplements it's roster with players from Texas.

The mental toughness aspect might play a factor for sure, I didn't think about that. I do think that the offenses are definitely more advanced overall, although that seems to be changing at the bigger schools here in state now. I think it the more advanced playbooks, along with more modern S&C programs at the larger schools definitely play a factor. You end up with someone who is an awesome football player as a senior in high school but has pretty much hit their physical peak and will never progress more than they have.

I mean I certainly could be wrong but whether it's a mental toughness thing or a maxing out potential thing, you have to admit that Texas football talent just doesn't seem to pan out as much as you'd think it would.

[Taog Redloh]

1) To make my response about Auburn, we should handle them at home this year.

2) I agree with your sentiment - the problem with Texas and Texas A&M isn't the coaching, it's the reliance on Texas high school talent. Texas high school football is insanely advanced, and the best players in Texas have usually hit their peak. It's why they are usually pretty good as freshmen and they fall off as they get older. The lower-tier (prestige wise) schools like TCU and Texas Tech rely on less-developed players with higher ceilings, then coach them up.

It's why A&M and Texas win land all those top 10 classes that don't end up doing anything.
Seems to me like if Texas and Texas A&M did what TCU and Tech are doing, then problem solved.

Texas high school talent isn't any worse/different than anywhere else. There's plenty to go around out there. I do agree that Texas and A&M probably look at 'stars' too much and get lazy. I think a lot of times we make this into a more complicated issue than it really is.

That being said.....there's something different about A&M. Their weirdness has held them back. They aren't an unlimited powerhouse like Texas is, they just don't have that attractiveness.

[ShotgunDawg]

The mental toughness aspect might play a factor for sure, I didn't think about that. I do think that the offenses are definitely more advanced overall, although that seems to be changing at the bigger schools here in state now. I think it the more advanced playbooks, along with more modern S&C programs at the larger schools definitely play a factor. You end up with someone who is an awesome football player as a senior in high school but has pretty much hit their physical peak and will never progress more than they have.

I mean I certainly could be wrong but whether it's a mental toughness thing or a maxing out potential thing, you have to admit that Texas football talent just doesn't seem to pan out as much as you'd think it would.

At the skill positions it does though. It just seems like they don't because Texas & Texas A&M are mediocre teams. Last year there was a week in the NFL where there were 8 starting QBs from Texas & none of them attended the U of Texas.

I also think where Texas teams get in trouble is that because their is so much in-state talent, they often through political reasons or laziness, take the in-state kid over going head to head with other top programs for national talent. In Mississippi, we don't have to deal with this. MSU recruits all the 4 & 5 stars in state, but what if Mississippi produced so many 4 & 5 stars that it wasn't in your best interest to recruit some of them? It can make evaluation more difficult.

I think it's most a culture thing though. As much as we want to make college football a glitz & glamour game, it is won by blue collar program from blue collar states. Ohio, Alabama, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, the parts of Florida where the players come from, Oklahoma, etc...

[lastmajordog]

We have passed them by as a program but we haven't passed them by in prestige, recruiting, and ceiling.

We have better coaches, development, and scouting than they do and we could beat them 5 years in a row, but, at any given point, Auburn is always closer than us to winning an SEC or National Title because they can recruit the talent neccesary to do so. We've got to find a way to get there. It may be the single hardest barrier in sports to legally break down.

Excellent......excellent point....

[Taog Redloh]

I think it's most a culture thing though. As much as we want to make college football a glitz & glamour game, it is won by blue collar program from blue collar states. Ohio, Alabama, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, the parts of Florida where the players come from, Oklahoma, etc...
Last 20 national champions: Alabama x 4, Ohio State x 2, Florida State x 2, Auburn, Florida x 3, LSU x 2, Texas, USC, Miami, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Nebraska/Michigan. Nothing blue collar about any of those football programs. States maybe, but not the programs. Those are the very definition of glitz/glamour, go look at the recrootin class. Stacked with 4 and 5 stars.

Blue collar don't win shit. What wins is a combination of big coaching and big talent, which makes the big talent play like a blue collar team. Bottom line. How you get your program to that mix of big coaching and big talent is another story, but it's most money, coaching luck and proximity to big talent.

Again, glitz and glamour.

[HSVDawg]

Malzahn may or may not survive the season, but Auburn will never be great again with him there.

I could go either way on Malzahn. Give him just an above average QB and he can take you a long way (see 2013). But to me its been absolutely dumbfounding how poorly they have parlayed Cam's success into recruiting dual threat QB's. They signed Marshall, who very fortunately for them turned from a cornerback into a decent SEC QB, but he was nothing special. Then you have Sean White who has a lot of heart but is extremely limited in size and athleticism, and John Franklin who "can't throw for shit" according to Buddy Stephens. Their offense is tailor made for a guy like Jalen Hurts, Keytaon Thompson, Josh Dobbs, etc. to step in and excel right away, but none of those guys even gave them the time of day. Its pretty baffling and also hilarious at the same time.

[TUSK]

Last 20 national champions: Alabama x 4, Ohio State x 2, Florida State x 2, Auburn, Florida x 3, LSU x 2, Texas, USC, Miami, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Nebraska/Michigan. Nothing blue collar about any of those football programs. States maybe, but not the programs. Those are the very definition of glitz/glamour, go look at the recrootin class. Stacked with 4 and 5 stars.

Blue collar don't win shit. What wins is a combination of big coaching and big talent, which makes the big talent play like a blue collar team. Bottom line. How you get your program to that mix of big coaching and big talent is another story, but it's most money, coaching luck and proximity to big talent.

Again, glitz and glamour.

Yeah, this guy agrees with you*:

2412

Bammer is straight up "ghetto meets blue collar", in the trenches...

[Johnson85]

I could go either way on Malzahn. Give him just an above average QB and he can take you a long way (see 2013). But to me its been absolutely dumbfounding how poorly they have parlayed Cam's success into recruiting dual threat QB's. They signed Marshall, who very fortunately for them turned from a cornerback into a decent SEC QB, but he was nothing special. Then you have Sean White who has a lot of heart but is extremely limited in size and athleticism, and John Franklin who "can't throw for shit" according to Buddy Stephens. Their offense is tailor made for a guy like Jalen Hurts, Keytaon Thompson, Josh Dobbs, etc. to step in and excel right away, but none of those guys even gave them the time of day. Its pretty baffling and also hilarious at the same time.

I think Malzahn just isn't good at running a program. Not sure if it's just too much of the inmates running the asylum or just a lack of management ability on his part. Or maybe it is just a matter of getting the right QB. I dont' understand how he replaced Chizik and Auburn got better so quickly, and then reverted back on the Chizik trajectory. I guess we'll find out this year.

[LockeDawg]

I could go either way on Malzahn. Give him just an above average QB and he can take you a long way (see 2013). But to me its been absolutely dumbfounding how poorly they have parlayed Cam's success into recruiting dual threat QB's. They signed Marshall, who very fortunately for them turned from a cornerback into a decent SEC QB, but he was nothing special. Then you have Sean White who has a lot of heart but is extremely limited in size and athleticism, and John Franklin who "can't throw for shit" according to Buddy Stephens. Their offense is tailor made for a guy like Jalen Hurts, Keytaon Thompson, Josh Dobbs, etc. to step in and excel right away, but none of those guys even gave them the time of day. Its pretty baffling and also hilarious at the same time.Gus/AU has recruited well, top 10 for years. But they have not recruited to their specific needs and their attrition level has hurt them. They've needed LBs for years, top shelf 5* LBs haven't been signing with AU - They've been through half a dozen DC's in 8 years and when you rotate DCs like a carousel, talented recruits take notice and won't sign on with a team with that much coaching turnover.

Until the current recruiting class, they had not signed a single true WR out of high school, they used a bunch of converted players at the WR position under Gus. Then the misses on the dual-threat QBs coupled with players transferring (Roc Thomas), going pro early (Peyton Barber/Sammy Coates), getting kicked off the team (Duke Williams/Jovon Robinson) in addition to their large number of Juco's, it seems like Auburn has used a mixture of band-aids to field a team. It caught up with them last year and now that they've lost their top 3 RBs from last season, it will be painful. It was said Gus was on the hot seat at the end of last season, he may have is ass in the fire pit by the end of Sept & October with their schedule.

[sandwolf]

They've needed LBs for years, top shelf 5* LBs haven't been signing with AU

They may not have been great at LB in recent years, but Malzahn's recruiting hasn't been the problem.....in 4 classes he has signed 1-5 star, 4-4 stars and 5-3 stars, which is pretty damn impressive.

ETA: For reference, we have signed 2-4 stars and 4-3 stars (5 if you count JT Gray) in that same period.


Until the current recruiting class, they had not signed a single true WR out of high school, they used a bunch of converted players at the WR position under Gus.

Where are you getting this from? Per 247, he has signed 10 HS WR's while at Auburn (6 if you exclude this past class)....the only class that he didn't sign a HS WR in was 2014, when his only WR signee was Duke Johnson out of JUCO.